The Lazy Poor

[PoliticalChic]

Yes, because there is no better way to walk the path of Jesus than to do so while complaining about the poor.

Jesus said to give to those who don't feel like working?

I must have missed that memo.


Or are you just too dumb to understand the OP?

There you go again quoting Jesus. He also said "Judge not... and this is what every one of your posts do. I judge also but I'm a non believer and I don't quote Jesus either.

I didn't quote Jesus.

Try to be more accurate.

 

[paulitician]

Nonsense.

There is no ‘entitlement attitude,’ that’s nothing more than a partisan contrivance by the right.

Indeed, conservatives for the most part are incapacitated by their blind adherence to rightist dogma. ‘Entitlement attitude,’ ‘entitlement nation,’ and ‘big government programs and meddling’ are all examples of the intellectual laziness exhibited by many on the right, glomming onto simple, inaccurate ‘answers’ to complex and difficult issues.

We are an Entitlement Nation now. Just because you don't want to see it, doesn't mean it's not the reality. No one is entitled to someone else's income..

If that were true and we lived strictly by that rule, even the flat tax would be forbidden, because it takes a percentage not a fixed amount.

Feeling a sense of Entitlement does not justify stealing from fellow Citizens. And far too many Americans truly feel they deserve something, therefore theft is acceptable. But i don't just blame them. I blame the despicable Politicians who have encouraged that attitude. But this discussion really doesn't matter in the end. If Amnesty is granted, the camel's back will be broke. How can we pay for all these Millions more who will be expecting freebies? We're $17 Trillion in Debt for God's sake. Where does Big Brother expect to get the added revenue from? The awful nightmare has only just begun. A break-down is coming.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The Constitution cannot function unless it is interpreted; it cannot be interpreted unless there is a body with the authority to interpret it.

Tossing around terms like 'corruption' are only manifestations of the tantrums that partisans throw when their agenda isn't fulfilled by an interpretation of the Constitution by the Court.

"The Constitution cannot function unless it is interpreted; ..."



You didn't get a copy in English???

That explains a lot....

That's funny coming from someone who once claimed that the Constitution should be interpreted as protecting the personhood of the fetus based on something said in the Declaration of Indpendence.

That's your spin on what I said.
Provide it.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

When time came for a vote, I would decide, and abide by the decision of the voters.


The real question is why folks like you are willing to allow judges to alter the Constitution.

Well, that’s an unsurprisingly ignorant statement.

Judges do not ‘alter’ the Constitution. They review laws to determine their constitutionality predicated on facts, evidence, and case law. When voters, either through referendum or their elected representatives, enact legislation offensive to the Constitution, such as Proposition 8, the courts have no other choice than to invalidate such laws.

Indeed, judges protect and defend the Constitution by following its case law.

What better proof could there be that you slept too close to your radium-dial watch?

"Judges do not ‘alter’ the Constitution."

Of course they do.

Everytime they find a 'penumbra' unrelated to the language of the Constitution.

It is the very definition of corruption.

More nonsense.

The Constitution exists only in the context of its case law, as interpreted by the courts, authorized by the doctrine of judicial review.

All perceptions of the Constitution are an interpretation, including so-called ‘originalism’ and ‘literalism.’

The Framers were not of one mind, they did not speak with one voice; the Founding Generation fully expected the courts to subject laws to judicial review, interpret the Constitution, and strike down laws offensive to the Constitution.

The Constitution is not some static blueprint for the mechanics of government, as many conservatives would have us believe, rather, it is the culmination of centuries of Anglo-American judicial tradition dating back to the Magna Carta and the Assizes of Henry II.

That some conservatives might disagree with a given ruling is not evidence of ‘judicial corruption,’ but is more likely evidence of conservative ignorance of, or contempt for, the law.

 

[jasonnfree]

What's the point of this; what solutions do you suggest, P.C.? Hell, most of us are disgusted with this country's welfare system, but this is a wage slave economy. Jobs pay shit, and they are rare; health care is nearly inaccessible for a large percentage; income discrimination is rampant, and employees don't have much in terms of benefits or labor protection anymore. So, YEAH, work in America is largely shit these days. If I could avoid that BS, I would, too. It really doesn't pay that well.

So maybe it is time to think that almost all of the problems you see were created or exacerbated by big government programs and meddling? And that maybe, just maybe, it is time to demand that big government get out of the micromanagement and meddling business and allow the country to function as the Founders envisioned?

I honestly do believe this is the last generation that will have any chance to do that if it is r not already too late. And if we do not, we will have lost the USA to the very concepts and dynamics that the Founders intended to free us from. We will have given up freedom in favor of the bondage and dictates of government once again.

But the lack of big government managing wall street is what led to the great depression. After some of the restraints that the government put on them, we didn't get in big trouble again until those regs were slowly taken away, such as Glass Steagal. Also, the S&L crisis in the 80's started when the congress lessened restrictions. Although yes congress does goes overboard. So it's like one extreme to another.

 

[Foxfyre]

What's the point of this; what solutions do you suggest, P.C.? Hell, most of us are disgusted with this country's welfare system, but this is a wage slave economy. Jobs pay shit, and they are rare; health care is nearly inaccessible for a large percentage; income discrimination is rampant, and employees don't have much in terms of benefits or labor protection anymore. So, YEAH, work in America is largely shit these days. If I could avoid that BS, I would, too. It really doesn't pay that well.

So maybe it is time to think that almost all of the problems you see were created or exacerbated by big government programs and meddling? And that maybe, just maybe, it is time to demand that big government get out of the micromanagement and meddling business and allow the country to function as the Founders envisioned?

I honestly do believe this is the last generation that will have any chance to do that if it is r not already too late. And if we do not, we will have lost the USA to the very concepts and dynamics that the Founders intended to free us from. We will have given up freedom in favor of the bondage and dictates of government once again.

But the lack of big government managing wall street is what led to the great depression. After some of the restraints that the government put on them, we didn't get in big trouble again until those regs were slowly taken away, such as Glass Steagal. Also, the S&L crisis in the 80's started when the congress lessened restrictions. Although yes congress does goes overboard. So it's like one extreme to another.

There is necessary regulation to bind us together as one nation, secure our rights, and prevent us from doing physical or economic violence to each other. The whole and sole purpose of the federal government was intended to do this.

And there is government micromanagement and meddling that the federal government was never intended to do.

The educated and thoughtful person knows the difference between these two things.

 

[paulitician]

Very tough times for good hard-working Americans. And unfortunately, they're gonna get a lot tougher. Businesses don't want to pay a decent wage and Big Brother wants more & more. How can anyone get ahead? An awful breakdown in our Nation is coming. Mass Civil Unrest is the future. Homeland Security isn't hoarding all that Ammo for nothing. Big Brother knows what's coming.

 

[Claudette]

Ever notice that PC complains incessantly about the poor and the welfare state that assists them,

but NEVER offers a better way to do things?

They are already offered the same free "choice" as everyone else: a free public education that equips them with all the necessary tools to get a job (math, reading, writing). From there they can EARN their way towards college, apply for a few scholarships, or choose the military for the means to afford a more skilled education. The catch? They have to work hard and apply themselves. Do you honestly expect the more responsible people to pick up the tab for those with no initiative of their own to LEARN how to succeed in life? We each "choose" how successful we want to be, based on our willingness to educate and apply ourselves. You also begin to learn, when life's own experiences teaches you what opportunities are left for those who happen to turn away from that pursuit of an education.

Government in no way helps the poor by cradling and nurturing them whenever someone fails to take an active, accountable and a responsible role for their OWN life. Government is the enabler to poverty, with all their free government programs and offers (like cell phones). It's a form of entitlement reward that takes away the need to really have any personal initiative - creating a "government will simply do it" mentality.



One of our Founders sums it up best:

I am for doing good to the poor, but...I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. I observed...that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.”
- Ben Franklin

After all that it shouldn't be hard for you to name the societies that have solved their poverty problems by keeping the government out of the business of helping the poor.

Give me that list.

Excuse me while I stand over here and LMAO.

Show all of us how Govt intervention has put a dent in poverty??

We taxpayers have been soaked for billions in the War on Poverty and yet Poverty is still here and doing a bangup business.

Loads of freeloaders out there and we taxpayers get soaked so they can sit on their asses and use OUR money.

Yeah. The War on Poverty is working so well. Your an idiot.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Well, that’s an unsurprisingly ignorant statement.

Judges do not ‘alter’ the Constitution. They review laws to determine their constitutionality predicated on facts, evidence, and case law. When voters, either through referendum or their elected representatives, enact legislation offensive to the Constitution, such as Proposition 8, the courts have no other choice than to invalidate such laws.

Indeed, judges protect and defend the Constitution by following its case law.

What better proof could there be that you slept too close to your radium-dial watch?

"Judges do not ‘alter’ the Constitution."

Of course they do.

Everytime they find a 'penumbra' unrelated to the language of the Constitution.

It is the very definition of corruption.

More nonsense.

The Constitution exists only in the context of its case law, as interpreted by the courts, authorized by the doctrine of judicial review.

All perceptions of the Constitution are an interpretation, including so-called ‘originalism’ and ‘literalism.’

The Framers were not of one mind, they did not speak with one voice; the Founding Generation fully expected the courts to subject laws to judicial review, interpret the Constitution, and strike down laws offensive to the Constitution.

The Constitution is not some static blueprint for the mechanics of government, as many conservatives would have us believe, rather, it is the culmination of centuries of Anglo-American judicial tradition dating back to the Magna Carta and the Assizes of Henry II.

That some conservatives might disagree with a given ruling is not evidence of ‘judicial corruption,’ but is more likely evidence of conservative ignorance of, or contempt for, the law.

Well....let's compare your view with that of a legal expert:

"Once we have abandoned the idea that the authority
of the courts to declare laws unconstitutional is somehow tied
to the language of the Constitution that the people adopted, a
judiciary exercising the power of judicial review appears in a
quite different light.

Judges then are no longer the keepers of
the covenant; instead they are a small group of fortunately
situated people with a roving commission to second-guess
Congress, state legislatures, and state and federal administrative
officers concerning what is best for the country."
THE NOTION OF A LIVING CONSTITUTION*
WILLIAM H. REHNQUIST
http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol29_No2_Rehnquist.pdf



Did you get that, C_Chamber_Pot???


Do you recognize the name Rehnquist?

You do? Good.


Again: "Once we have abandoned the idea that the authority
of the courts to declare laws unconstitutional is somehow tied
to the language of the Constitution...."

The LANGUAGE OF THE CONSTITUTION.

That is in English, and recognizable.....except for willful dunces like you.



So.....where is the nonsense?
Look in the mirror.

 

[GHook93]

and steal from her mothers purse?

Guess that went over your head. She meant tax dollar to pay from her welfare

 

[Againsheila]

since "the lazy poor" is "code" for blacks.....let's talk about the corrupt, criminal, and lazy Asians.

Gee nobody told me. Most of the poor I know are whites. In fact, blacks only make up 3% of our states population.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

Ever notice that PC complains incessantly about the poor and the welfare state that assists them,

but NEVER offers a better way to do things?

They are already offered the same free "choice" as everyone else: a free public education that equips them with all the necessary tools to get a job (math, reading, writing). From there they can EARN their way towards college, apply for a few scholarships, or choose the military for the means to afford a more skilled education. The catch? They have to work hard and apply themselves. Do you honestly expect the more responsible people to pick up the tab for those with no initiative of their own to LEARN how to succeed in life? We each "choose" how successful we want to be, based on our willingness to educate and apply ourselves. You also begin to learn, when life's own experiences teaches you what opportunities are left for those who happen to turn away from that pursuit of an education.

Government in no way helps the poor by cradling and nurturing them whenever someone fails to take an active, accountable and a responsible role for their OWN life. Government is the enabler to poverty, with all their free government programs and offers (like cell phones). It's a form of entitlement reward that takes away the need to really have any personal initiative - creating a "government will simply do it" mentality.



One of our Founders sums it up best:

I am for doing good to the poor, but...I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. I observed...that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.”
- Ben Franklin

After all that it shouldn't be hard for you to name the societies that have solved their poverty problems by keeping the government out of the business of helping the poor.

Give me that list.

Oh I'm sure there will still be some form of poverty, it wont be gone completely. However, that shouldn't be anyone ELSE'S problem but the "individual" to take on that role of responsibility. That is the whole point behind the freedom found in the "pursuit of happiness". Where does it state that such happiness would be guaranteed to every citizen? Are we not responsible adults capable of making our OWN choices in life, or not? We have been given free education, and we were each given free opportunity .... a clear choice of how we are to live out our lives. Where there is freedom comes individual responsibility, as well as personal consequences if such free individual opportunities are rejected. However NYcarbineer wants to lead them by the hand, when they fail to take on that role of personal responsibility.


Fair enough. If you feel Ben Franklin is incorrect, and government IS the true solution to poverty, prove it!

With all the BILLIONS of government dollars thrown at the poverty issue, it should be very easy for you to locate and provide some factual bit of evidence to support your argument. A government statistic where all their assistance programs have actually REDUCED the poverty rate in the last 20 years? That can't be too hard to ask of you, now should it??

 

[Foxfyre]

They are already offered the same free "choice" as everyone else: a free public education that equips them with all the necessary tools to get a job (math, reading, writing). From there they can EARN their way towards college, apply for a few scholarships, or choose the military for the means to afford a more skilled education. The catch? They have to work hard and apply themselves. Do you honestly expect the more responsible people to pick up the tab for those with no initiative of their own to LEARN how to succeed in life? We each "choose" how successful we want to be, based on our willingness to educate and apply ourselves. You also begin to learn, when life's own experiences teaches you what opportunities are left for those who happen to turn away from that pursuit of an education.

Government in no way helps the poor by cradling and nurturing them whenever someone fails to take an active, accountable and a responsible role for their OWN life. Government is the enabler to poverty, with all their free government programs and offers (like cell phones). It's a form of entitlement reward that takes away the need to really have any personal initiative - creating a "government will simply do it" mentality.



One of our Founders sums it up best:

I am for doing good to the poor, but...I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. I observed...that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.”
- Ben Franklin

After all that it shouldn't be hard for you to name the societies that have solved their poverty problems by keeping the government out of the business of helping the poor.

Give me that list.

Excuse me while I stand over here and LMAO.

Show all of us how Govt intervention has put a dent in poverty??

We taxpayers have been soaked for billions in the War on Poverty and yet Poverty is still here and doing a bangup business.

Loads of freeloaders out there and we taxpayers get soaked so they can sit on their asses and use OUR money.

Yeah. The War on Poverty is working so well. Your an idiot.

The point is, that nobody can get somebody out of poverty who is unwilling to do that for themselves. We can create an economic environment that provides maximum opportunity to all. Or we can compartmentalize people into groups and sub groups and try to micromanage who of different groups will be allowed what, receive what, be required to do what.

The truth is that 'trickle down" doesn't work. It should never be assumed that it is the responsibility of the government, or the rich or the big corporations or the tax payer or whatever/whomever to make the poor unpoor. And all efforts to lessen poverty through such means is doomed to failure because you can't do that without punishing success and rewarding failure. And punishing success and rewarding failure is a certain recipe to encourage more failure that results in more poverty.

But if you allow people to become rich and to form corporations because they make the right choices and pay whatever dues are necessary to do that, you by default create opportunities for others. It happens naturally and simply because commerce and industry is happening.

As Adam Smith wrote in Wealth of Nations: "It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest."

Pay people to be poor, and that becomes a much more attractive option for many. Most especially when they don't feel any richer during the transition from poverty to middle class--many, if not most give up before they complete it if they even try in the first place. And thus you create a class of people such is described in the OP.

Create a society, as we once had, in which there was no shame in poverty, but few were encouraged or rewarded for being poor, and there was no incentive whatsoever to remain poor. Poverty was a much less 'permanent' condition for most back then because many more paid the required dues to work their way out of poverty. It was the societal expectation and was how success was measured.

Paying people to remain poor is not compassion. Nor, in my opinion, are the motives of those who keep such a concept live.

 

[paulitician]

Good hard-working Americans just can't catch a break. Businesses don't want to pay em and Big Brother wants to take more & more. Once you lose the hard-working Middle Class, you lose the support of the People. And that's when Revolution becomes likely. I truly believe if our Founding Fathers were around today, they would be calling for another Revolution. We've gone backwards as a Nation. We now resemble the time of oppressive Pre-Revolution King-Rule. The dam is gonna break at some point. An awesome flood is coming.

 

[Truthmatters]

Good hard-working Americans just can't catch a break. Businesses don't want to pay em and Big Brother wants to take more & more. Once you lose the hard-working Middle Class, you lose the support of the People. And that's when Revolution becomes likely. I truly believe if our Founding Fathers were around today, they would be calling for another Revolution. We've gone backwards as a Nation. We now resemble the time of oppressive Pre-Revolution King-Rule. The dam is gonna break at some point. An awesome flood is coming.

and how exactly will you and your fringe idiot child vitim hunting cohorts get anyone to heed your insane wall scratchings?

You are part of a tiny minority whom sane people call kooks

 

[paulitician]

Good hard-working Americans just can't catch a break. Businesses don't want to pay em and Big Brother wants to take more & more. Once you lose the hard-working Middle Class, you lose the support of the People. And that's when Revolution becomes likely. I truly believe if our Founding Fathers were around today, they would be calling for another Revolution. We've gone backwards as a Nation. We now resemble the time of oppressive Pre-Revolution King-Rule. The dam is gonna break at some point. An awesome flood is coming.

and how exactly will you and your fringe idiot child vitim hunting cohorts get anyone to heed your insane wall scratchings?

You are part of a tiny minority whom sane people call kooks

A tiny minority now, a massive majority later. You can't screw the good hard-working Middle Class forever. The dam is going to break. Better build an Ark.

 

[Katzndogz]

Poverty can never be eliminated. Poverty is relative. You are only as poor as someone else is rich. In the land of billionaires, the mere millionaires are in poverty.

That's why the poor in America are wealthy beyond the wildest dreams of 90% of the world's poor.

What has changed now, is that poverty has created an entitlement. Someone so poor that they only have a 46" flat screen TV is ENTITLED to a 52" flat screen TV because they are too poor buy one for themselves.

 

[Freemason9]

Poverty can never be eliminated. Poverty is relative. You are only as poor as someone else is rich. In the land of billionaires, the mere millionaires are in poverty.

That's why the poor in America are wealthy beyond the wildest dreams of 90% of the world's poor.

What has changed now, is that poverty has created an entitlement. Someone so poor that they only have a 46" flat screen TV is ENTITLED to a 52" flat screen TV because they are too poor buy one for themselves.

I call Bullshit.

Yes, everything is "relative," and that's exactly the problem. In an incredibly wealthy nation that has been built ENTIRELY on the backs of wage slaves, the labor force has lost its motivation. Nothing pays, and there are few passages to improvement. And they share a shockingly small portion of the wealth their efforts created.

Bitch all you want, but the reality of a brutalized work force lay in tatters everywhere. This is an issue that will only grow larger.

 

[koshergrl]

Brutalized work force...lol.

You want to see a brutalized work force, look to a communist state.

 

[koshergrl]

The lazy poor think that any work at all is "brutal" and cannot understand the concept of "work hard, get ahead".

It's the "hard" part that they object to. They think they should be able to sit on their dumb asses all day, and have everything provided by the state.

They are the butt babies of Obama and Ayers. Aren't they great.