The Nuking of Nagasaki: Even More Immoral and Unnecessary than Hiroshima

[ding]

The Japanese had, in fact, already sued for peace. The atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military point of view, in the defeat of Japan.

— Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, Commander in Chief of the U.S. Pacific Fleet, [91]

That's misleading. You should be ashamed. But putting that aside, it was going to be unconditional surrender or the bomb. They got the bombs, then we got the unconditional surrender. So the bombs were needed.

 

[Mushroom]

I see no evidence for your claim

Here, since you love simply copying and pasting from Wikipedia without doing any of your own fucking research.

In preparation for Operation Olympic, the invasion of southern Kyushu, various figures and organizations made casualty estimates based on the terrain, strength, and disposition of known Japanese forces. However, as reported Japanese strength in the Home Islands continued to climb and Japanese military performance increased, so too did the casualty estimates.[5] In April 1945, the Joint Chiefs of Staff formally adopted a planning paper giving a range of possible casualties based on experience in both Europe and the Pacific. These ranged from 0.42 dead and missing and 2.16 total casualties per 1000 men per day under the "European Experience" to 1.95 dead and missing and 7.45 total casualties per 1000 men per day under the "Pacific Experience."[97] This assessment included neither casualties suffered after the 90-day mark (US planners envisioned switching to the tactical defensive by X+120[98]), nor personnel losses at sea from Japanese air attacks.[99] In order to sustain the campaign on Kyushu, planners estimated a replacement stream of 100,000 men per month would be necessary, a figure achievable even after the partial demobilization following the defeat of Germany.[5] As time went on, other US leaders made estimates of their own:

• In a letter to General Curtis LeMay when LeMay assumed command of the B-29 force on Guam, General Lauris Norstad told LeMay that if an invasion took place, it would cost the US "half a million" dead.[100]
• In May, Admiral Nimitz's staff estimated 49,000 U.S casualties in the first 30 days of Operation Olympic, including 5,000 at sea.[101]
• A study done by General MacArthur's staff in June estimated 23,000 US casualties in the first 30 days of Olympic and 125,000 after 120 days, fighting an assumed Japanese force of 300,000[102] (in actuality some 917,000 Japanese troops were on Kyushu,[103]). When these figures were questioned by General Marshall, MacArthur submitted a revised estimate of 105,000, in part by deducting wounded men able to return to duty.[104]
• In a conference with President Truman on June 18, Marshall, taking the Battle of Luzon as the best model for Olympic, thought the Americans would suffer 31,000 casualties in the first 30 days and ultimately 20% of Japanese casualties, which he estimated would include the entire Japanese force. This implied a total of 70,000 American casualties in the battle of Kyushu using the June projection of 350,000 Japanese defenders.[105] Admiral Leahy, more impressed by the Battle of Okinawa, thought the American forces would suffer a 35% casualty rate (implying an ultimate toll of 268,000).[106] Admiral King thought that casualties in the first 30 days would fall between Luzon and Okinawa, i.e., between 31,000 and 41,000.[106] Of these estimates, only Nimitz's included losses of the forces at sea, though kamikazes had inflicted 1.78 fatalities and a similar number of wounded per kamikaze pilot in the Battle of Okinawa,[107] and troop transports off Kyūshū would have been much more exposed.
• In July MacArthur's Intelligence Chief, Maj. Gen. Charles A. Willoughby, warned of between 210,000 and 280,000 battle casualties in the push to the "stop line" one-third of the way up Kyushu. Even when rounded down to a conservative 200,000, this figure implied a total of nearly 500,000 all-causes losses, of whom perhaps 50,000 might return to duty after light to moderate care.[108]
• The US Sixth Army, the formation tasked with carrying out the major land fighting on Kyushu, estimated a figure of 394,859 casualties serious enough to be permanently removed from unit roll calls during the first 120 days on Kyushu, barely enough to avoid outstripping the planned replacement stream.[109]
• Secretary of War Henry L. Stimson stated "We shall in my opinion have to go through an even more bitter finish fight than in Germany. We shall incur the losses incident to such a war and we shall leave the Japanese islands even more thoroughly destroyed than was the case with Germany."[110] From D-Day to V-E Day, the Western Allies alone suffered some 766,294 casualties.[111]
• A study done for Secretary of War Henry Stimson's staff by William Shockley estimated that invading Japan would cost 1.7–4 million American casualties, including 400,000–800,000 fatalities, and five to ten million Japanese fatalities. The key assumption was large-scale participation by civilians in the defense of Japan.[17]
• Japanese military directives ordered the execution of all POWs being held if Japan was ever invaded. Towards the end of the war about 100,000 Allied prisoners were in Japanese custody.

Operation Downfall - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Is that not "evidence" enough?

Oh, wait. I forget, you reject any evidence you do not like.

 

[Vegasgiants]

Here, since you love simply copying and pasting from Wikipedia without doing any of your own fucking research.

Operation Downfall - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Is that not "evidence" enough?

Oh, wait. I forget, you reject any evidence you do not like.

We have invasion plans today for lots of countries


On paper only

 

[ding]

We have invasion plans today for lots of countries


On paper only

But in this case they were being executed. So not just on paper.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

You're dismissed

LOL I will take your dismissal and ALL the thanks I get in this thread compare the two and I know which way this goes.

 

[Vegasgiants]

LOL I will take your dismissal and ALL the thanks I get in this thread compare the two and I know which way this goes.

Dont you have rocks that need painting? Lol

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Dont you have rocks that need painting? Lol

Lie some more it suits you.

 

[Vegasgiants]

Lie some more it suits you.

So you dont have rocks that need painting? Lol

 

[ding]

Isn't it time for the scientists didn't believe the bomb should be dropped argument? I notice you haven't made that one in awhile.

 

[Mushroom]

We have invasion plans today for lots of countries


On paper only

The invasion of Japan was going to happen. You really do not know history, do you?

Most of the forces that had been in Europe were already being routed to Okinawa. That was the staging base for Operation Olympic. Every ship, airplane, soldier, and everything else was being sent there. The 101st Airborne, after fighting to Germany was being sent to invade Japan. My grandfathers ship which was heavily damaged in Leyte Gulf as part of the Taffy convoy, and after hasty repairs was off the coast of Okinawa in preparation for the invasion.

Oh, this invasion was going to happen. Just as the Invasion of Kuwait was going to happen if Mad Dash did not pull out after Operation Desert Storm.

Now tell me, do you really think the Japanese were going to surrender? Not even Saddam would surrender until most of his army was destroyed. And his culture had nothing against surrender, and tens of thousands surrendered (many as soon as they could).

Now compare that to Japan. Where for example at one battle, Japan had 2,636 troops. 17 of which were alive at the end of the battle (most too badly wounded to fight).

Or another battle, Iwo Jima. Over 18,000 Japanese forces. Only 216 taken prisoner.

Now please tell me of a single expert before the bombs that said Japan would quit fighting, without an invasion.

 

[Vegasgiants]

The invasion of Japan was going to happen. You really do not know history, do you?

Most of the forces that had been in Europe were already being routed to Okinawa. That was the staging base for Operation Olympic. Every ship, airplane, soldier, and everything else was being sent there. The 101st Airborne, after fighting to Germany was being sent to invade Japan. My grandfathers ship which was heavily damaged in Leyte Gulf as part of the Taffy convoy, and after hasty repairs was off the coast of Okinawa in preparation for the invasion.

Oh, this invasion was going to happen. Just as the Invasion of Kuwait was going to happen if Mad Dash did not pull out after Operation Desert Storm.

Now tell me, do you really think the Japanese were going to surrender? Not even Saddam would surrender until most of his army was destroyed. And his culture had nothing against surrender, and tens of thousands surrendered (many as soon as they could).

Now compare that to Japan. Where for example at one battle, Japan had 2,636 troops. 17 of which were alive at the end of the battle (most too badly wounded to fight).

Or another battle, Iwo Jima. Over 18,000 Japanese forces. Only 216 taken prisoner.

Now please tell me of a single expert before the bombs that said Japan would quit fighting, without an invasion.

But it was not likely to happen


Because the war was over


All our military leaders knew it


The evidence is overwhelming

 

[Mushroom]

But it was not likely to happen


Because the war was over


All our military leaders knew it


The evidence is overwhelming

Then name one of them that said the invasion was not needed, and urged the preparations for it to end.

*sits back and waits for this evidence*

 

[Vegasgiants]

Then name one of them that said the invasion was not needed, and urged the preparations for it to end.

*sits back and waits for this evidence*

Why would you end preparations? If you spent one day in the military you know you plan for every possiblility no matter how slight

 

[Mushroom]

Why would you end preparations? If you spent one day in the military you know you plan for every possiblility no matter how slight

You spin in circles once again.

If they believed Japan was about to surrender, then why waste needless lives in an invasion that was not needed.

Therefore, only two conclusions could be reached logically.

They knew Japan was not about to surrender.

Or.

They are speaking out their asses because their belief in Air-Sea-Land Power being dominant would never be put to the test as they had dreamed, and therefore were after the fact crying because they were denied their place in history of winning the ward themselves.

Me, I tend towards the latter. Especially as there is nothing to prove the former at all.

You fail to present any proof that prior to the bombs a single one of them said Japan was about to toss in the glove. Why? Because there is none.

 

[Vegasgiants]

You spin in circles once again.

If they believed Japan was about to surrender, then why waste needless lives in an invasion that was not needed.

Therefore, only two conclusions could be reached logically.

They knew Japan was not about to surrender.

Or.

They are speaking out their asses because their belief in Air-Sea-Land Power being dominant would never be put to the test as they had dreamed, and therefore were after the fact crying because they were denied their place in history of winning the ward themselves.

Me, I tend towards the latter. Especially as there is nothing to prove the former at all.

You fail to present any proof that prior to the bombs a single one of them said Japan was about to toss in the glove. Why? Because there is none.

They knew japan was about to surrender


Lemay said 2 weeks

 

[Mushroom]

They knew japan was about to surrender


Lemay said 2 weeks

Any reference to them saying so before the bombs were dropped?

 

[Vegasgiants]

Any reference to them saying so before the bombs were dropped?

Any reference to them supporting dropping the bomb at any time?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Any reference to them supporting dropping the bomb at any time?

By not disparaging it they support it dumb Fuck

 

[Vegasgiants]

By not disparaging it they support it dumb Fuck

No moron. Anyone who thought what they said was wrong would have spoken out against them after the war



No



One



Did




Dismissed

 

[RetiredGySgt]

No moron. Anyone who thought what they said was wrong would have spoken out against them after the war



No



One



Did




Dismissed

Retard alert Retard alert.