The Nuking of Nagasaki: Even More Immoral and Unnecessary than Hiroshima

[Vegasgiants]

Read the link MORON it is SOURCE Documents from the US and Japanese Governments.

You are dismissed because you conceded long ago


Carry on

 

[gipper]

I've been here since the beginning fo the thread. I haven't seen anything substantive.

I’ve been here over ten years and I’m tired of dealing with ignorant Americans who still believe the statist myths about the bombings.

 

[Mushroom]

LOL wrong I linked to an entire list of SOURCE DOCUMENTS about the Japanese offers and Atomic bombs

As have I. I even provided them the actual source documents of the cables between Foreign Minister Togo and Soviet Ambassador Sato, asking exactly where in the directions the Japanese Government wanted anything other than a cease fire.

Nuclear Files: Library: Correspondence: Telegrams: Togo-Sato

Japanese Peace feelers in the Soviet Union

www.nuclearfiles.org

I have quoted the documents, provided the source (which by the way is a site against nuclear weapons), and they still just ignore it and scream Japan was about to surrender.

It has nothing to do with facts, it is a religion to them. And religions need no proof, just belief.

 

[Open Bolt]

Here's a reason why the second atomic bomb should have been dropped on Kyoto (Stimson be dammed) instead of on Nagasaki:

16 days to die at Pearl Harbor: Families weren’t told about sailors trapped inside sunken battleship

When salvage crews raised the battleship West Virginia six months after the Pearl Harbor attacks, they found the bodies of three sailors huddled in an airtight storeroom — and a calendar on which 16 days had been crossed off in...

www.seattletimes.com

 

[Open Bolt]

^^^

Historians take notice of Walter Trohan:

Did the Japanese offer to surrender before Hiroshima? (Part 1)

Did the Japanese offer to surrender before Hiroshima? Short answer: no. Long answer: also no, but it's a bit complicated.

blog.nuclearsecrecy.com

Did the Japanese offer to surrender before Hiroshima? (Part 2)

What if Japan did offer nearly-full surrender terms to the US in early 1945? In the 1940s, just this was claimed — but it's not very likely.

blog.nuclearsecrecy.com

The verdict:
Fake news. Never happened.

 

[Mashmont]

You are dismissed because you conceded long ago


Carry on

This guy kind of ran away.

 

[Who_Me?]

The Japanese did start the war but they attacked a military target, Pearl Harbor.

The US dropped nuclear bombs on cities taking hundreds of thousands of civilian lives. Harry Truman guilty of war crimes?

 

[Open Bolt]

The Japanese did start the war but they attacked a military target, Pearl Harbor.

That is incorrect. War was not declared so Pearl Harbor was not a military target.

The US dropped nuclear bombs on cities taking hundreds of thousands of civilian lives.

Both atomic bombs were dropped on important military targets.

Harry Truman guilty of war crimes?

No. The war crime was attacking Pearl Harbor before war was declared.

 

[Who_Me?]

That is incorrect. War was not declared so Pearl Harbor was not a military target.



Both atomic bombs were dropped on important military targets.



No. The war crime was attacking Pearl Harbor before war was declared.

BS the US Pacific fleet was targeted.

100,000 civilians were killed in Hiroshima. Not sure about Nagasaki. Nice try though.

 

[Open Bolt]

BS

No BS. Japan attacked before war was declared. That is a war crime.

the US Pacific fleet was targeted.

The US Pacific fleet was targeted in peacetime before war was declared.

That is a war crime.

100,000 civilians were killed in Hiroshima.

Irrelevant. Hiroshima was a huge military base with tens of thousands of Japanese soldiers and was the headquarters in charge of repelling our coming invasion.

Not sure about Nagasaki.

Nagasaki was a gigantic warship factory.

Nice try though.

Facts always win over anti-American propaganda.

 

[Mushroom]

The US dropped nuclear bombs on cities taking hundreds of thousands of civilian lives. Harry Truman guilty of war crimes?

One of which was the command and logistics center for the defense of the Southern Islands, and had over 75,000 military personnel.

The other was their largest shipyard, home base of their submarine fleet, and where hundreds of submarines were being prepared for the final battles.

 

[Mushroom]

No. The war crime was attacking Pearl Harbor before war was declared.

Actually, that is not true at all. Nowhere is it stated or accepted that a formal war must be declared before hostilities start.

But please, there are a great many documents that define what a "war crime" is. Point out to the one that states that starting hostilities without a formal declaration of war is required. Point out where such charges have been brought up in any "War Crimes" trial.

The fact is, a "declaration of war" is actually a very modern concept, and is rarely ever done.

 

[Mushroom]

100,000 civilians were killed in Hiroshima. Not sure about Nagasaki. Nice try though.

And the Japanese killed around a million in their invasion and occupation of the Philippines. Almost all civilians.

The death toll in China was around 20 million, almost all civilians.

Your point is what, exactly? That the US was far more humane, in that they did not slaughter millions for the simple pleasure of it, like Japan did?

 

[Unkotare]

The other favorite "yeahbut, yeahbut" suggesting we incinerated hundreds of thousands of civilians as an act of revenge for China.

 

[Open Bolt]

Actually, that is not true at all. Nowhere is it stated or accepted that a formal war must be declared before hostilities start.
But please, there are a great many documents that define what a "war crime" is. Point out to the one that states that starting hostilities without a formal declaration of war is required. Point out where such charges have been brought up in any "War Crimes" trial.
The fact is, a "declaration of war" is actually a very modern concept, and is rarely ever done.

1907 Hague Conventions:
"The Contracting Powers recognize that hostilities between themselves must not commence without previous and explicit warning, in the form either of a reasoned declaration of war or of an ultimatum with conditional declaration of war."

The Avalon Project - Laws of War : Opening of Hostilities (Hague III); October 18, 1907

 

[Open Bolt]

The other favorite "yeahbut, yeahbut" suggesting we incinerated hundreds of thousands of civilians as an act of revenge for China.

We should have nuked Hiroshima and Kyoto instead of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

But as it happens the atomic bombs were dropped on military targets. Hiroshima was a large military base. Nagasaki was a giant warship factory.

 

[AZrailwhale]

The Atomic Bomb and the End of World War II | National Security Archive

To mark the 75th anniversary of the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in August 1945, the National Security Archive is updating and reposting one of its most popular e-books of the past 25 years.

nsarchive.gwu.edu

Just for you.

I read through all that. Nowhere does it make the point that using the nukes was unnecessary.

 

[AZrailwhale]

The Japanese did start the war but they attacked a military target, Pearl Harbor.

The US dropped nuclear bombs on cities taking hundreds of thousands of civilian lives. Harry Truman guilty of war crimes?

The Japanese spent from 1936 until 1945 bombing Chinese cities killing at least hundreds of thousands of civilians. The Germans bombed DEFENCELESS Spanish cities killing civilians plus bombing Warsaw AFTER the Polish government declared it an "open city" that wouldn't be defended. Not to mention all the British cities that were bombed with the direct aim of killing civilians. The Axis nations merely reaped what they had sowen.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I read through all that. Nowhere does it make the point that using the nukes was unnecessary.

No but it does show that at NO TIME did Japan offer to surrender before the dropping of the bombs.

 

[Mushroom]

"The Contracting Powers recognize that hostilities between themselves must not commence without previous and explicit warning, in the form either of a reasoned declaration of war or of an ultimatum with conditional declaration of war."

DO not forget, that the US issued an ultimatum to Japan on 26 November 1941 which demanded the complete withdrawal of all Japanese forces from French Indochina and China. So once again, there was an ultimatum made, it was just not by Japan. And the attack was basically their response.