The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?

[surada]

His wife spoke Arabic 1300 years
before Arabs even appear in historic record?

I guess that explains why Arabs can't pronounce 'P-alestine'....

Joseph was sold to Ishmaelite traders.

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images.app.goo.gl

 

[rylah]

Joseph was sold to Ishmaelite traders.

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images.app.goo.gl

Egyptians also understood when Joseph A'H said
he was a Hebrew 'from the land of the Hebrews'.

And we have already established that Ishmael
was merely a son of an Egyptian concubine.

Some sources say Pharaoh's daughter.

 

[surada]

And we have already established that Ishmael
was merely a son of an Egyptian concubine.

Some sources say Pharaoh's daughter.

Merely? Some say Isaac was the child of pharaoh.

 

[rylah]

Merely? Some say Isaac was the child of pharaoh.

Yeah the clowns, like the Arab supremacists
who overcompensate for lack of roots and history...

But at least we're progressing, even you admit it's about Jews,
and Arabs are rather foreign to Levant and especially 'P-alestine'...

 

[Sixties Fan]

[ This document may explain a lot of things about the origin of the word Arab ]

After the fall of the Assyrians, the succeeding Babylonian and then Achaemenid Persian empires inherited the Assyrian administrative system, and as they occupied the same frontiers, they perpetuated the Assyrians’ ‘Arab’-sounding words to label various groups who buffeted the borders over subsequent centuries, but inner Arabian populations still left no records in which they refer to themselves as ‘Arabs’. It was into this worldview whereby empires used the word ‘Arab’ generically for dimly perceived desert outsiders that the Greeks emerged and began writing ‘Arabs’ into their histories. Like the Assyrians, the Greeks had little direct contact with Arabia beyond the desert frontier, and their unfamiliarity with the region permitted their generalisation that outside the Fertile Crescent lived a world of roughly homogenous ‘Arabs’. ‘Arab’ became a convenient device to cut-and-dry the ‘barbarians’ to the south, and what appears in classical literature as the supposed original state of ‘the Arab people’ is very much like Greek generalisations about ‘Celts’: an imprecise guesstimate augmented by literary flourish, not a reflection of a budding Arab community across Arabia.

Suspicions that there was no ancient ‘Arab community’ in Arabia are corroborated by Arabian voices from the centuries before Islam. Archaeologists have unearthed thousands of pre-Islamic inscriptions from Yemen to Jordan, and reference to ‘Arab’ as a label for oneself or one’s own community is absent within this corpus. Even evidence for the Arabic language itself is trace. It appears that Arabians in the first centuries CE were a scattered array of very diverse peoples, speaking somewhat related but distinct languages, and lacking a sense of political, communal or cultural unity. There are no ancient indigenous myths of common origin tying Arabian populations together into an imagined ‘Arab family’, and there was neither a common religion nor a set of shared symbols which communities could use to construct unities, as Arabia’s confessional map was
divided between Christians, Jews, polytheists and some less ascertainable monotheistic creeds. Instead of a pre- Islamic Arabia filled with ‘Arabs’, we find that peoples in central Arabia referred to themselves as Ma’addites, southern Arabia (Yemen) was organised into kingdoms with very particular languages and state structures, populations on the eastern Gulf were oriented towards Iran with limited political or cultural commonalities with other Arabians, and in the north the Roman/ Byzantine and Persian empires warred against each other, creating divisive alliances that blocked pathways by which peoples could unite under a common identity.

The straightforward Greek projections of Arab origins in a Bedouin mould thus seem, upon close analysis, to be most misleading. Numerically, most of Arabia’s pre- Islamic populations were not Bedouin, they did not express a common unity, and it appears that none called themselves Arabs. The ingredients needed to classify pre- Islamic Arabians as members of one Arab ethnicity are wanting. And accordingly, Victorian impressions about the Arab racial purity of Bedouin are misplaced too, since Arab identity does not stem from an archaic lifestyle. To use the word ‘Arab’ as descriptive of a primitive way of life merely replicates prejudices of Assyrian and Greek writers, taking us away from a truthful understanding of Middle Eastern communities.

(full article online)

https://www.thebritishacademy.ac.uk/documents/843/BAR27-10-Webb-reduced_0.pdf

 

[rylah]

How the Middle East would look without Arab imperialism

 

[Open Bolt]

The Canaanites, like the Philistines centuries later, melted within a more predominant Hebrew community, becoming ethnic Jews themselves.

I've never heard of the Philistines merging with the Jews.

With the Canaanites, it isn't so much that they merged with the Jews, but that the Canaanites of the West Bank area evolved into the Jews.

Arabs' DNA pool is extremely diverse; few can claim old Semitic bloodlines. Their ancient monarchies from the Hashemites in Jordan to Bahrain are but not their lower strata from Gaza, Egypt, Sudan, and so on and so forth.

Perhaps. But the Palestinians have a different lineage, that does trace back to the Canaanites. I speculate that the Palestinians are descended from the Moabites, Ammonites, or Edomites.

 

[Open Bolt]

Israelites were Canaanites. Hebrew is a Canaanite language.

Agreed.

Arabic is not a Canaanite language.

True, but Moabite, Ammonite, and Edomite are Canaanite languages.

Fakestinians are recently invented Arabs and non-Arab Muslims such as Bosnians with no link to Canaanites. Jews in fact are the only living link to Canaanite.

DNA shows that the Palestinians are not descended from Israelites, but it does show that the Palestinians are descended from the Canaanites.

Perhaps the Palestinians are descended from the Moabites, Ammonites, or Edomites.

This is why Canaanites are recorded in the Jewish Bible but not in Arabs’ Koran.

Agreed. Arabs are not from the area.

Original Canaanites were destroyed in the late Bronze Age. Israelites later emerged.

Archaeology shows that Bronze Age Canaanite culture collapsed and their descendants formed a number of smaller Iron Age cultures.

The two Israelite kingdoms were two of these Iron Age cultures. Other Iron Age cultures to arise from the ashes of Bronze Age Canaan are the Moabites, Ammonites, and Edomites.

Jews were never expelled.

Actually that Hadrian guy (the same one who built the wall in the UK) expelled a lot of Jews against their will.

“Canaanites were spread across a wide region during the Bronze Age. (The study) supports the idea that differient Levantine cultural groups such as the Moabites, *ISRAELITES* and Phoenicians had a common genetic background”
The DNA of ancient Canaanites lives on in modern-day Lebanese, genetic analysis shows

Agreed. And also the Ammonites and Edomites.

I speculate that the Palestinians are descended from the Moabites, Ammonites, or Edomites.

 

[Open Bolt]

The Jews had been expelled from Palestine 500 years before Islam. Most Palestinians are descended from Jewish farmers who didn't leave.. of course they intermarried with Syrians, Lebanese, Greeks, Romans, Turks and crusaders.

DNA shows that what you say is not true. The Palestinians are not descended from Israelites.

They are however descended from the Canaanites. That probably means that the Palestinians come from the Moabites, Ammonites, or Edomites.

Palestinians were descended from Jews according to Ben Gurion and Shlomo Sands. and a whole lot of DNA studies. There were very few Jews in Palestine from 70 AD to the 1920s.

That is incorrect. DNA shows that the Palestinians are not descended from the Israelites.

This guy, Schlomo Sands is a professor in Israel.

Shlomo Sand: âI wish to resign and cease considering myself a Jewâ

His past was Jewish, but today he believes Israel to be one of the most racist societies in the western world. Historian Shlomo Sand explains why he doesn’t want to be Jewish anymore

www.theguardian.com

Self-hating Jews are always ugly when they spout their antisemitic bilge.

The Akkadians were from the Arabian peninsula and they were there before Judaism. Look at a map of their empire.

That is incorrect. The Akkadians were from Mesopotamia. And I am not aware of the Akkadians ever being in the West Bank area.

Nope. He was an Arab.

No he wasn't. He was from Mesopotamia.

 

[Open Bolt]

Jews are indigenous to Judea/Israel
Arabs/Palestinians are indigenous to Arabia.

If Palestinians are descended from the Moabites or Ammonites, that makes them indigenous to Jordan.

File:Kingdoms around Israel 830 map.svg - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Sixties Fan]

Agreed.



True, but Moabite, Ammonite, and Edomite are Canaanite languages.



DNA shows that the Palestinians are not descended from Israelites, but it does show that the Palestinians are descended from the Canaanites.

[ Palestinians are Arabs. They are not descended from any of the Canaanite tribes of the time ]

Perhaps the Palestinians are descended from the Moabites, Ammonites, or Edomites.



Agreed. Arabs are not from the area.



Archaeology shows that Bronze Age Canaanite culture collapsed and their descendants formed a number of smaller Iron Age cultures.

The two Israelite kingdoms were two of these Iron Age cultures. Other Iron Age cultures to arise from the ashes of Bronze Age Canaan are the Moabites, Ammonites, and Edomites.



Actually that Hadrian guy (the same one who built the wall in the UK) expelled a lot of Jews against their will.



Agreed. And also the Ammonites and Edomites.

I speculate that the Palestinians are descended from the Moabites, Ammonites, or Edomites.

Wrong, the Palestinians are not descended from the Moabites, Ammonites or Edomites.

When you do find any evidence to the contrary, post it here.

 

[Sixties Fan]

If Palestinians are descended from the Moabites or Ammonites, that makes them indigenous to Jordan.

File:Kingdoms around Israel 830 map.svg - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Stop with the assumptions.
You are showing wishful thinking and not evidence at all.

 

[Open Bolt]

Palestinians are Arabs. They are not descended from any of the Canaanite tribes of the time
Wrong, the Palestinians are not descended from the Moabites, Ammonites or Edomites.
When you do find any evidence to the contrary, post it here.

Here is evidence that the Palestinians are descended from the Canaanites, but not descended from the Israelites:

The Shared Genetic Heritage Of Jews And Palestinians

The Times recently carried this unusual report on an Israeli Jew (Tsvi Misinai, a retired computer expert) who's hoping to prove that Palestinians are

www.patheos.com

Jews are the genetic brothers of Palestinians, Syrians, and Lebanese, study finds

If a common heritage conferred peace, then perhaps the long history of conflict in the Middle East would have been resolved years ago. For, according to a new scientific study, Jews are the genetic brothers of Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese, and they all share a common genetic lineage that...

www.sciencedaily.com

"Canaanite but not Israelite" doesn't leave a lot of options. I can think of only four:
Moabite, Ammonite, Edomite, and Phoenician.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Here is evidence that the Palestinians are descended from the Canaanites, but not descended from the Israelites:

The Shared Genetic Heritage Of Jews And Palestinians

The Times recently carried this unusual report on an Israeli Jew (Tsvi Misinai, a retired computer expert) who's hoping to prove that Palestinians are

www.patheos.com

Jews are the genetic brothers of Palestinians, Syrians, and Lebanese, study finds

If a common heritage conferred peace, then perhaps the long history of conflict in the Middle East would have been resolved years ago. For, according to a new scientific study, Jews are the genetic brothers of Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese, and they all share a common genetic lineage that...

www.sciencedaily.com

"Canaanite but not Israelite" doesn't leave a lot of options. I can think of only four:
Moabite, Ammonite, Edomite, and Phoenician.

Not one of those studies is valid.
Who participated in those studies?
What were their names? Where did they come from?
How can anyone check on the validity of the people studied?
No evidence is available.

You do get some things right, but others so wrong.
Palestinian Arabs are NOT descended from any of the Canaanite tribes.

 

[Open Bolt]

Not one of those studies is valid.
Who participated in those studies?
What were their names? Where did they come from?
How can anyone check on the validity of the people studied?
No evidence is available.

Both studies were done by reputable scientists from reputable universities (one a reputable Israeli university), and both were published in peer reviewed scientific journals.

https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.100115997

https://www.cell.com/ajhg/fulltext/S0002-9297(07)61325-1

 

[Sixties Fan]

Both studies were done by reputable scientists from reputable universities (one a reputable Israeli university), and both were published in peer reviewed scientific journals.

https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.100115997

https://www.cell.com/ajhg/fulltext/S0002-9297(07)61325-1

Believe what you wish.

 

[Roudy]

Sure they did. You're confusing Arabs with Muslims. Omar invited the Jews to return to Jerusalem. There's more to history than just Jewish history. Look at the travel journals of Ibn Battuta and Rabbi Benjamin Tudela..... very few Jews. There's lots of DNA studies. Remember too that Moses and Abraham had Arab wives.

And the Ottomans invited Jews escaping the Crusades and Inquisitions to come back to what the Ottoman Muslims considered Jewish homeland aka Jerusalem / Israel. For the next six hundred years the Ottomans controlled the region, not once did they ever consider a Palestine or Palestinian People. Palestine is a European Christian name, and the first so called Palestinians were Jews. Arafat the Egyptian born terrorist hijacked the name Palestinian as strategy to confuse the West. There are not and never have been a Palestinian people. In The late 1800’s early 1900’s prior to the fall of the Ottoman Empire, the Ottomans who were meticulous at keeping good records, had Jerusalem as a Jewish majority city, with Christians as second, and last Muslims Arabs. The Arabs who later called themselves Palestinians invaded the region for jobs and opportunities that were created by the Jewish entrepreneurship, ingenuity and resourcefulness, once the Ottomans were defeated and the region came under British control.

The land is Jewish ancestral, religious and spiritual homeland. That is a fact. Many Arab countries have finally recognized that the Palestinian cause is a big hoax, and have made peace with Israel under the Abraham accords To the benefit of both their peoples.

The Jews are there to stay and the state of Israel will remain strong, prosperous and a leader in science, medicine, education and military. Deal with it, or not, nobody cares. The war is over, your side lost. Jerusalem has been declared the capital of the state of Israel, and the major Arab countries have normalized relations and trade with Israel. Game over.

 

[Roudy]

Abraham an Arab? He’s a Hebrew in the Jewish Bible. His name is a Hebrew word. His grandson Jacob founded the Israelites. Not even the Koran says Abraham was an Arab.

Abraham was an Arab. Ha ha ha. Now I’ve heard it all.

 

[Roudy]

Yeah the clowns, like the Arab supremacists
who overcompensate for lack of roots and history...

But at least we're progressing, even you admit it's about Jews,
and Arabs are rather foreign to Levant and especially 'P-alestine'...

Now that’s funny, a guy with an Indian accent teaching Arabs to fix theirs.

 

[surada]

And the Ottomans invited Jews escaping the Crusades and Inquisitions to come back to what the Ottoman Muslims considered Jewish homeland aka Jerusalem / Israel. For the next six hundred years the Ottomans controlled the region, not once did they ever consider a Palestine or Palestinian People. Palestine is a European Christian name, and the first so called Palestinians were Jews. Arafat the Egyptian born terrorist hijacked the name Palestinian as strategy to confuse the West. There are not and never have been a Palestinian people. In The late 1800’s early 1900’s prior to the fall of the Ottoman Empire, the Ottomans who were meticulous at keeping good records, had Jerusalem as a Jewish majority city, with Christians as second, and last Muslims Arabs. The Arabs who later called themselves Palestinians invaded the region for jobs and opportunities that were created by the Jewish entrepreneurship, ingenuity and resourcefulness, once the Ottomans were defeated and the region came under British control.

The land is Jewish ancestral, religious and spiritual homeland. That is a fact. Many Arab countries have finally recognized that the Palestinian cause is a big hoax, and have made peace with Israel under the Abraham accords To the benefit of both their peoples.

The Jews are there to stay and the state of Israel will remain strong, prosperous and a leader in science, medicine, education and military. Deal with it, or not, nobody cares. The war is over, your side lost. Jerusalem has been declared the capital of the state of Israel, and the major Arab countries have normalized relations and trade with Israel. Game over.

Nope. Read the Turkish census of 1870. Jews were a tiny minority and they made no effort to count the Bedouin. The Muslim Quarter of Jerusalem was the largest.