The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[Sunshine]

See agree with her, she provides a reach around. Disagree with her and she brings down her "rep" authority down on your ass. ROFL I bet she'd love it if negs sent electric shocks through the interweb

I give rep. I get rep. If you don't have the stomach for an internet discussion forum you are free to find other digs.

There we go... take my authority or leave.. ROFL Authoritarians never disappoint.

Your negs have no effect on me, I think they are funny. But alas, since I see how much they mean to you and you are throwing them around in this vain attempt to manipulate opinion... for that reason alone I sort of wish I had a ton of rep so I could neg you in return to take away your presumed rep authority. Nah I'll stick around. Imagine how boring life would be if everyone bowed to your opinion and to your authority.

Clearly negs do affect you because you don't stop yammering on about them. Keep it up. We have a date about this time tomorrow evening.

 

[Ernie S.]

He never made it to his home before he was accosted by Zimmerman.

Well, we're still on prosecution and according to their witnesses:

Z was on the bottom
Z was yelling for help.

Let's wait for the rest of the evidence, shall we?

1 of the 22 witness said Z was on the bottom because he had special powers to see colors in the dark and he assumed Z was yelling for help because he was on the bottom and some acoustical nonsense(planted in his mind by the police).

But even with that John Good contradicted Zimmerman's statements.

I agree, wait till all the evidence is out..but I reserve the right to say stupid things.

Good was the only witness that saw anything BEFORE the gunshot. ALL of the others got their first look AFTER Martin was hit. How do you suppose he said the one on the bottom was wearing red? I doubt he saw Zimmerman clearly AFTER the gunshot. Lucky guess?

How exactly did he contradict Zimmerman?

 

[Sunshine]

Good point.. the all female jury does sort of meet up with the requirement to find Zimmerman's peers.

Misogynist too, huh? Point taken.

I believe in this jury. I think they are going to make the right decision and follow thru. Regardless of fear of consequences of their decision.

I wish the judge would make a decision on sealing their names and tell the media attorneys to FO and let the jury know they will be sealed for 6 months to give them that confidence before they have to start their deliberations.
Regardless, I believe this jury is dedicated and will make the right decision.

Gender/Race notwithstanding and irrelevant.

And time to pull up stakes and move.

 

[The Rabbi]

The situation had escalated...GZ should have stayed put...he is now giving the impression that he is now following a minor on foot with a flashlight...he didnt identify himself. We all know that he was just looking for a street sign, but Martin doesnt. He was between the buildings going WTF to dd...some dudes following me...he peaks back arounnd the buidlding and there is GZ walking back down the side walk and he yells is there a problem...hes a punk kid and GZ knew he was...so stay in your truck and avoid a possible confrontation. It was dark and GZ was convinced that this kid was up to no good and thought the kid was gonna get away before the cops got there. It turns out the kid had committed no crime...so the kid was actually only getting away from GZ following him---not an actual crime.

We dont know what Trayvon was up to. Based on his history he could easily have been casing houses for burglary. BUt it is irrelevant.
So if Trayvon merely wanted to get away from Zimmerman was the right way to do that to come out and confront him and then punch him to the ground?

 

[Ernie S.]

George Zimmerman Medical Report Sheds Light on Injuries After Trayvon Martin Shooting - ABC News

play video: time stamp at about 1:06.

I think I'll take the word of the doctor over that of the ironically named "truthseeker."

Family doctor= conflict of interest.

Mo mri's no x-rays.

If this had been a worker's comp case he would have been shot down.

Holy cow a quarter inch and a one inch wound! Horrible.

Z refused to go to follow up treatment.

I did not see any two black eyes on Z the night of the battle.

Z was on psycho meds before the incident.

You've never had a broken nose, have you? I have. My eyes didn't blacken until the next day. I also didn't bleed very much.

Family Doctor had conflict of interest? I call bullshit again. He went to an emergent care clinic and was seen by the PA on duty. Hardly a Family Doctor/ Regular patient relationship.

 

[Sunshine]

[MENTION=22602]Cuyo[/MENTION].

Trayvon confronted Zimmerman. DD, the prosecutions "star" witness testified to that.

That "God Complex" and "Wyatt Earp Syndrome" is a product of your bias...not any facts in evidence.

Awe you don't like my avatar, not a John Wayne fan?

>>> Trayvon confronted Zimmerman. DD, the prosecutions "star" witness testified to that.

Nope, she testified to the exact opposite. She testified that Zimmerman confronted Trayvon.

You post more like Nathan Lane in drag.

 

[25Caliber]

The situation had escalated...GZ should have stayed put...he is now giving the impression that he is now following a minor on foot with a flashlight...he didnt identify himself. We all know that he was just looking for a street sign, but Martin doesnt. He was between the buildings going WTF to dd...some dudes following me...he peaks back arounnd the buidlding and there is GZ walking back down the side walk and he yells is there a problem...hes a punk kid and GZ knew he was...so stay in your truck and avoid a possible confrontation. It was dark and GZ was convinced that this kid was up to no good and thought the kid was gonna get away before the cops got there. It turns out the kid had committed no crime...so the kid was actually only getting away from GZ following him---not an actual crime.

We dont know what Trayvon was up to. Based on his history he could easily have been casing houses for burglary. BUt it is irrelevant.
So if Trayvon merely wanted to get away from Zimmerman was the right way to do that to come out and confront him and then punch him to the ground?

Nope it was not the right thing to do...but as with GZ it wasnt a crime either to ask why you are being followed.

I wish the kid would have just kept going home and watched the all star game. I also wish that GZ would have just stayed in his truck and waited on police...when he saw trayvon running...he got out of his truck and pursued in the dark with a flashlight. Trayvon got pissed...if you look at it...trayvon actually left or walked by this guy following him a few times...it was when GZ started following on foot that Tray finally asked him "is there a problem".

 

[Sunshine]

Even if I stipulate, doesn't mean a goddamn thing.

All it proves is that Martin MAY be guilty of what we already know Zim is guilty of - NOT avoiding a confrontation that was avoidable.

At best, it puts him at par with Zim

Sorry to piss in your cereal... I know you probably thought you were pretty profound there.

And since there's been so much talk about Zim's rights - Right to follow, right to pack, etc - Wouldn't you agree also, that Martin had the right to confront the man following him?

Since TM was safely out of it, his "decision" to go back and confront and assault Zimmerman for the "sin" of having followed TM earlier translates into something pretty clear: Zimmerman could NOT be guilty of having "provoked" anything. Indeed, it appears that the only things he did were all legal.

And no. TM had no right to "confront" Zimmerman in any manner that involved a physical assault.

Twisted logic^

Twisted poster^

 

[RKMBrown]

Occam's Razor...among competing hypotheses, the hypothesis with the fewest assumptions should be selected.

Does Occam's Razor apply to the son of a trial judge who had just studied self defense?

OMG the bullshit in this thread now.

Magistrate in VA. Magistrates are NOT JUDGES and you made up the word trial completely.

Fucking PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE get some facts together before you speak.​

Nope..
Well excuuuuuse me he was just a "Retired Magistrate (officer) for the Supreme Court of VA." Did not know that Georgey boy had lied about his father being a judge on his job application.

 

[Sunshine]

Borrowed from my friend and lesson learned:

“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”
― George Carlin​

To the fool, he who speaks wisdom will sound foolish. -Euripides.

^^^

 

[Oldstyle]

1. He did follow...trayvon went up the path and he followed with a flashlight...thats on the 911 tape and GZs own words.

2. Touche...want to hear the defenses case...I may change my opinion...but as of now...this is where I stand.

3. Not too dark to follow with a flashlight...in evidence already.

4. I doubt seriously that will we see anything solidifying the fact that he absolutely made it home and returned...certainly cant rely on deedees testimony. She doesnt know home from vicinity or front door from building.

With all due respect, 25? The girlfriend's testimony is that when she calls him back...he's standing outside of the condo he's staying at, breathing hard after running away from the man who was following him. Look at a map of the gated community. That's several hundred yards away from the path that Zimmerman took when he was ATTEMPTING to follow the man who had disappeared behind the row of townhouses. Martin has lost his pursuer. According to the Prosecution's own witness Martin is safely outside the condo. So how do you move him all the way back to where the fight took place unless HE chose to walk back to confront Zimmerman?
George Zimmerman is on the phone walking back to his SUV at this point. He's completely LOST Martin. He's telling the Police where to meet him inside of the complex. It's at this point...right after Zimmerman gets off the phone...that the confrontation takes place. The fact is...there is no way possible for that confrontation to take place where it did unless Trayvon Martin makes a decision to retrace his steps and confront the "creepy assed Cracker". It simply doesn't happen.

I hear ya...i think your assessment is reasonable. However, I dont put a whole lot of credence in anything that DD says. I think trayvon was in the vicinity of his house...my guess...in between the two building speaking with DD...so although Tray was almost home and at the building, I dont believe he was essentially at his front door and then came back...doesnt make sense with the timeline...he cut right as GZ said and then headed between the two buildings...GZ continued up the walk to the other side of the buiding to get the street sign as he stated...when he was walking back he identifies Martin as coming toward him from the direction I have stated.

GZ___________ ........ _____________ Fiances house
. [____Bldg_____] TM [_____Bldg____X]
.
._GZ and T________________________________


Sorry this is the best description I can do...horizontal line is the sidewalk that runs behind the back of the townhomes.

So I believe this is where TM was...he was at the building but he wasnt at his front door. Its not clear at all from DDs testimony where the heck he was...but I would consider this pretty close to home considering that he had just walked all the way from 7-11 in the rain.

And i agree with you...trayvon could have just went home...but he did come back and ask the question of "is there a problem". My point is that if GZ has a right to follow, the trayvon has the right to ask why, whether he doubled back or not. Had Trayvon not come back he would be alive...no confrontation...had GZ just stayed in the truck with 911 and waited on the cops, then trayvon would still be alive also.

The situation had escalated...GZ should have stayed put...he is now giving the impression that he is now following a minor on foot with a flashlight...he didnt identify himself. We all know that he was just looking for a street sign, but Martin doesnt. He was between the buildings going WTF to dd...some dudes following me...he peaks back arounnd the buidlding and there is GZ walking back down the side walk and he yells is there a problem...hes a punk kid and GZ knew he was...so stay in your truck and avoid a possible confrontation. It was dark and GZ was convinced that this kid was up to no good and thought the kid was gonna get away before the cops got there. It turns out the kid had committed no crime...so the kid was actually only getting away from GZ following him---not an actual crime.

Here's the problem with your theory that Martin wasn't in the area by the condo, 25. Trayvon Martin takes off running from George Zimmerman cutting off the call to his girlfriend. When she calls back a minute plus later he's breathing hard from that running. So tell me how it is that a young man in good physical condition can run for anywhere even close to that amount of time and NOT have covered the two hundred yards to the condo? The fact is...in the amount of time from when Zimmerman announces to the 9/11 operator that Martin is running until the time that the girl friend calls him back he could EASILY have gotten to the condo. As a matter of fact it's hard to conceive of him NOT making it that far. If he only runs half way (as in your diagram) then why would he be winded when the gf calls back over a minute later? Sorry but that's a hard scenario to envision. I don't think the gf realized what she was saying when she repeated several times that Martin was by the condo. That statement by her...coupled with Martin's "Cracker" comment but Martin several hundred yards away from Zimmerman and paints him as someone who isn't scared but annoyed at being followed. It isn't logical for someone who is frightened to go towards the thing that is supposedly frightening them and away from safety. It IS logical for someone who is angry to go towards the thing that is causing that anger. That's what I think happened that night. I think Trayvon Martin decided that he wasn't going to run from the "Cracker" that had questioned him...he was going to go back and confront him. That's the only scenario that makes sense.

 

[RKMBrown]

[MENTION=22602]Cuyo[/MENTION].

Trayvon confronted Zimmerman. DD, the prosecutions "star" witness testified to that.

That "God Complex" and "Wyatt Earp Syndrome" is a product of your bias...not any facts in evidence.

Awe you don't like my avatar, not a John Wayne fan?

>>> Trayvon confronted Zimmerman. DD, the prosecutions "star" witness testified to that.

Nope, she testified to the exact opposite. She testified that Zimmerman confronted Trayvon.

You post more like Nathan Lane in drag.

No thanks, not gonna wear a dress for you.

 

[testarosa]

I think this may be the stoopidest thing I've ever done.

 

[Ernie S.]

Maybe - what kind of money you talking?

I propose a partnership.

Don't do it Testarosa, he's a grimy overweight beer belly biker. biker.

And you're a stupid looking rabbit. So what?

 

[Oldstyle]

And I'd like to point out that we actually have no way of knowing what it was that Trayvon Martin was doing that night. This is a young man who had just been suspended from High School for breaking into people's lockers and stealing things. I know that it's "politically correct" to say that Martin wasn't doing anything wrong as he walked back from the 7/11 with his iced tea and Skittles but the truth is...we weren't there observing his behavior so we don't know how he was acting. Is is possible that Martin was indeed looking around the neighborhood to see if there was something he could steal? If it weren't for the suspension from school for theft I'd say that was an outrageous thing to put forward but knowing that he had a history of theft then it makes Zimmerman's claim that he thought the person he saw was "up to no good" more believable. Knowing Trayvon Martin's "history" lends credence to Zimmerman's claim that he WAS acting in a suspicious manner.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

Even if I stipulate, doesn't mean a goddamn thing.

All it proves is that Martin MAY be guilty of what we already know Zim is guilty of - NOT avoiding a confrontation that was avoidable.

At best, it puts him at par with Zim

Sorry to piss in your cereal... I know you probably thought you were pretty profound there.

And since there's been so much talk about Zim's rights - Right to follow, right to pack, etc - Wouldn't you agree also, that Martin had the right to confront the man following him?

Since TM was safely out of it, his "decision" to go back and confront and assault Zimmerman for the "sin" of having followed TM earlier translates into something pretty clear: Zimmerman could NOT be guilty of having "provoked" anything. Indeed, it appears that the only things he did were all legal.

And no. TM had no right to "confront" Zimmerman in any manner that involved a physical assault.

Twisted logic^

^ No. It' the correct and pretty basic logic; and it's the truth.

No wonder you have no hope of understanding it.

 

[Ernie S.]

George Zimmerman Medical Report Sheds Light on Injuries After Trayvon Martin Shooting - ABC News

play video: time stamp at about 1:06.

I think I'll take the word of the doctor over that of the ironically named "truthseeker."

Family doctor= conflict of interest.

Mo mri's no x-rays.

If this had been a worker's comp case he would have been shot down.

Holy cow a quarter inch and a one inch wound! Horrible.

Z refused to go to follow up treatment.

I did not see any two black eyes on Z the night of the battle.

Z was on psycho meds before the incident.

I guess he missed the part where she said on the stand the the only definitive way to prove that Zimmerman had a broken nose was with x-rays.

I was right and someone owes me an apology.

She did say that. She also stated that in her opinion, his nose was, in fact, broken. Did you examine Mr. Zimmerman? Are you qualified to contradict her opinion?

I'm betting that half the time, you put the wrong end of your joint in your mouth and YOU feel qualified to assess a broken nose?

 

[25Caliber]

With all due respect, 25? The girlfriend's testimony is that when she calls him back...he's standing outside of the condo he's staying at, breathing hard after running away from the man who was following him. Look at a map of the gated community. That's several hundred yards away from the path that Zimmerman took when he was ATTEMPTING to follow the man who had disappeared behind the row of townhouses. Martin has lost his pursuer. According to the Prosecution's own witness Martin is safely outside the condo. So how do you move him all the way back to where the fight took place unless HE chose to walk back to confront Zimmerman?
George Zimmerman is on the phone walking back to his SUV at this point. He's completely LOST Martin. He's telling the Police where to meet him inside of the complex. It's at this point...right after Zimmerman gets off the phone...that the confrontation takes place. The fact is...there is no way possible for that confrontation to take place where it did unless Trayvon Martin makes a decision to retrace his steps and confront the "creepy assed Cracker". It simply doesn't happen.

I hear ya...i think your assessment is reasonable. However, I dont put a whole lot of credence in anything that DD says. I think trayvon was in the vicinity of his house...my guess...in between the two building speaking with DD...so although Tray was almost home and at the building, I dont believe he was essentially at his front door and then came back...doesnt make sense with the timeline...he cut right as GZ said and then headed between the two buildings...GZ continued up the walk to the other side of the buiding to get the street sign as he stated...when he was walking back he identifies Martin as coming toward him from the direction I have stated.

GZ___________ ........ _____________ Fiances house
. [____Bldg_____] TM [_____Bldg____X]
.
._GZ and T________________________________


Sorry this is the best description I can do...horizontal line is the sidewalk that runs behind the back of the townhomes.

So I believe this is where TM was...he was at the building but he wasnt at his front door. Its not clear at all from DDs testimony where the heck he was...but I would consider this pretty close to home considering that he had just walked all the way from 7-11 in the rain.

And i agree with you...trayvon could have just went home...but he did come back and ask the question of "is there a problem". My point is that if GZ has a right to follow, the trayvon has the right to ask why, whether he doubled back or not. Had Trayvon not come back he would be alive...no confrontation...had GZ just stayed in the truck with 911 and waited on the cops, then trayvon would still be alive also.

The situation had escalated...GZ should have stayed put...he is now giving the impression that he is now following a minor on foot with a flashlight...he didnt identify himself. We all know that he was just looking for a street sign, but Martin doesnt. He was between the buildings going WTF to dd...some dudes following me...he peaks back arounnd the buidlding and there is GZ walking back down the side walk and he yells is there a problem...hes a punk kid and GZ knew he was...so stay in your truck and avoid a possible confrontation. It was dark and GZ was convinced that this kid was up to no good and thought the kid was gonna get away before the cops got there. It turns out the kid had committed no crime...so the kid was actually only getting away from GZ following him---not an actual crime.

Here's the problem with your theory that Martin wasn't in the area by the condo, 25. Trayvon Martin takes off running from George Zimmerman cutting off the call to his girlfriend. When she calls back a minute plus later he's breathing hard from that running. So tell me how it is that a young man in good physical condition can run for anywhere even close to that amount of time and NOT have covered the two hundred yards to the condo? The fact is...in the amount of time from when Zimmerman announces to the 9/11 operator that Martin is running until the time that the girl friend calls him back he could EASILY have gotten to the condo. As a matter of fact it's hard to conceive of him NOT making it that far. If he only runs half way (as in your diagram) then why would he be winded when the gf calls back over a minute later? Sorry but that's a hard scenario to envision. I don't think the gf realized what she was saying when she repeated several times that Martin was by the condo. That statement by her...coupled with Martin's "Cracker" comment but Martin several hundred yards away from Zimmerman and paints him as someone who isn't scared but annoyed at being followed. It isn't logical for someone who is frightened to go towards the thing that is supposedly frightening them and away from safety. It IS logical for someone who is angry to go towards the thing that is causing that anger. That's what I think happened that night. I think Trayvon Martin decided that he wasn't going to run from the "Cracker" that had questioned him...he was going to go back and confront him. That's the only scenario that makes sense.

I have no idea...he is running up the walk and then down the sidewalk and in between the two buildings in the rain...while on the phone...yeah he could be breathing heavy for sure. Hell, look at the breathing sound that is coming from GZs phone as he immediately starts running...that was how the dispatch thought he was following.

So yeah, he most definitely could have been breathing hard for sure. It was dark, it was raining, it was abnormally cool that night, hes on the phone...hell yeah it would have sounded like the kid was out of breath.

Look at the distance down the sidewalk...we are talking about a stretch of less than two minutes according to GZ and the 911 call...GZ also does not describe Trayvon as actually running he describes him as walking briskly in his interview with sean hannity...GZ specifically says he was not running, but that he meant he was walking faster and getting away.

The the distance between the T in the sidewalk and the fiances house is more than 120 yards (more than a football field)...so no I dont believe in a span of less than two minutes he went that entire distance and back. Thats why I dont think it makes sense with the timeline and GZs own account of the events. He cut up the pathway and went right...when GZ came up the path, he looked and saw no one...suggesting that by now, Tray had cut between the buildings.

 

[25Caliber]

His nose looks broke to me or damage severely. Plus the black eyes the next day suggest being hit in the nose pretty hard.

 

[jon_berzerk]

I hear ya...i think your assessment is reasonable. However, I dont put a whole lot of credence in anything that DD says. I think trayvon was in the vicinity of his house...my guess...in between the two building speaking with DD...so although Tray was almost home and at the building, I dont believe he was essentially at his front door and then came back...doesnt make sense with the timeline...he cut right as GZ said and then headed between the two buildings...GZ continued up the walk to the other side of the buiding to get the street sign as he stated...when he was walking back he identifies Martin as coming toward him from the direction I have stated.

GZ___________ ........ _____________ Fiances house
. [____Bldg_____] TM [_____Bldg____X]
.
._GZ and T________________________________


Sorry this is the best description I can do...horizontal line is the sidewalk that runs behind the back of the townhomes.

So I believe this is where TM was...he was at the building but he wasnt at his front door. Its not clear at all from DDs testimony where the heck he was...but I would consider this pretty close to home considering that he had just walked all the way from 7-11 in the rain.

And i agree with you...trayvon could have just went home...but he did come back and ask the question of "is there a problem". My point is that if GZ has a right to follow, the trayvon has the right to ask why, whether he doubled back or not. Had Trayvon not come back he would be alive...no confrontation...had GZ just stayed in the truck with 911 and waited on the cops, then trayvon would still be alive also.

The situation had escalated...GZ should have stayed put...he is now giving the impression that he is now following a minor on foot with a flashlight...he didnt identify himself. We all know that he was just looking for a street sign, but Martin doesnt. He was between the buildings going WTF to dd...some dudes following me...he peaks back arounnd the buidlding and there is GZ walking back down the side walk and he yells is there a problem...hes a punk kid and GZ knew he was...so stay in your truck and avoid a possible confrontation. It was dark and GZ was convinced that this kid was up to no good and thought the kid was gonna get away before the cops got there. It turns out the kid had committed no crime...so the kid was actually only getting away from GZ following him---not an actual crime.

Here's the problem with your theory that Martin wasn't in the area by the condo, 25. Trayvon Martin takes off running from George Zimmerman cutting off the call to his girlfriend. When she calls back a minute plus later he's breathing hard from that running. So tell me how it is that a young man in good physical condition can run for anywhere even close to that amount of time and NOT have covered the two hundred yards to the condo? The fact is...in the amount of time from when Zimmerman announces to the 9/11 operator that Martin is running until the time that the girl friend calls him back he could EASILY have gotten to the condo. As a matter of fact it's hard to conceive of him NOT making it that far. If he only runs half way (as in your diagram) then why would he be winded when the gf calls back over a minute later? Sorry but that's a hard scenario to envision. I don't think the gf realized what she was saying when she repeated several times that Martin was by the condo. That statement by her...coupled with Martin's "Cracker" comment but Martin several hundred yards away from Zimmerman and paints him as someone who isn't scared but annoyed at being followed. It isn't logical for someone who is frightened to go towards the thing that is supposedly frightening them and away from safety. It IS logical for someone who is angry to go towards the thing that is causing that anger. That's what I think happened that night. I think Trayvon Martin decided that he wasn't going to run from the "Cracker" that had questioned him...he was going to go back and confront him. That's the only scenario that makes sense.

I have no idea...he is running up the walk and then down the sidewalk and in between the two buildings in the rain...while on the phone...yeah he could be breathing heavy for sure. Hell, look at the breathing sound that is coming from GZs phone as he immediately starts running...that was how the dispatch thought he was following.

So yeah, he most definitely could have been breathing hard for sure. It was dark, it was raining, it was abnormally cool that night, hes on the phone...hell yeah it would have sounded like the kid was out of breath.

Look at the distance down the sidewalk...we are talking about a stretch of less than two minutes according to GZ and the 911 call...GZ also does not describe Trayvon as actually running he describes him as walking briskly in his interview with sean hannity...GZ specifically says he was not running, but that he meant he was walking faster and getting away.

The the distance between the T in the sidewalk and the fiances house is more than 120 yards (more than a football field)...so no I dont believe in a span of less than two minutes he went that entire distance and back. Thats why I dont think it makes sense with the timeline and GZs own account of the events. He cut up the pathway and went right...when GZ came up the path, he looked and saw no one...suggesting that by now, Tray had cut between the buildings.

The the distance between the T in the sidewalk and the fiances house is more than 120 yards (more than a football field)...so no I dont believe in a span of less than two minutes he went that entire distance and back.

you are kidding right

the average 100 yard dash is around 12 seconds