The People Against the 800 Pound Gorilla

[pbel]

It appears that America may have made a Historic Moment in our1% Democracy by refuting the whishes of Israel and her PAC AIPAC. I can't remember another time when the people ever prevailed on the so called 800 pound gorilla which has orchestrated all ME polices in the ME and especially towards Palestinians in their quest for nation-hood.


The People Against the 800 Pound Gorilla » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

No More War for Israel?

The People Against the 800 Pound Gorilla

by JEAN BRICMONT and DIANA JOHNSTONE


The past ten days have seen what could be the start of an historic turning point away from endless war in the Middle East. Public opinion in the United States, in harmony with the majority of people in the world, has clearly rejected U.S. military intervention in Syria.

But for this turn away from war to be complete and lasting, greater awareness is needed of the forces that have been pushing the United States into these wars, and will surely continue to do so until they are clearly and openly rejected.

An American friend who knows Washington well recently told us that “everybody” there knows that, as far as the drive to war with Syria is concerned, it is Israel that directs U.S. policy. Why then, we replied, don’t opponents of war say it out loud, since, if the American public knew that, support for the war would collapse? Of course, we knew the answer to that question. They are afraid to say all they know, because if you blame the pro-Israel lobby, you are branded an anti-Semite in the media and your career is destroyed.

One who had that experience is James Abourezk, former Senator from South Dakota, who has testified: “I can tell you from personal experience that, at least in the Congress, the support Israel has in that body is based completely on political fear – fear of defeat by anyone who does not do what Israel wants done. I can also tell you that very few members of Congress–at least when I served there – have any affection for Israel or for its lobby. What they have is contempt, but it is silenced by fear of being found out exactly how they feel. I’ve heard too many cloakroom conversations in which members of the Senate will voice their bitter feelings about how they’re pushed around by the lobby to think otherwise. In private one hears the dislike of Israel and the tactics of the lobby, but not one of them is willing to risk the lobby’s animosity by making their feelings public.”
Abourezk added : “The only exceptions to that rule are the feelings of Jewish members, who, I believe, are sincere in their efforts to keep U.S. money flowing to Israel. But that minority does not a U.S. imperial policy make.”[1]

 

[Hoffstra]

Yes, when the American people very vocally demand an end to endless wars for other foreign agendas, its a very good day for the USA.

Forces that care little for the USA were pushing for war, the American people said "NO", and Congress has listened.

 

[docmauser1]

It appears that America may have made a Historic Moment in our1% Democracy by refuting the whishes of Israel and her PAC AIPAC. I can't remember another time when the people ever prevailed on the so called 800 pound gorilla which has orchestrated all ME polices in the ME and especially towards Palestinians in their quest for nation-hood.

Same garbage, different day, of course.

 

[Hossfly]

It appears that America may have made a Historic Moment in our1% Democracy by refuting the whishes of Israel and her PAC AIPAC. I can't remember another time when the people ever prevailed on the so called 800 pound gorilla which has orchestrated all ME polices in the ME and especially towards Palestinians in their quest for nation-hood.

Same garbage, different day, of course.

Counterpunch = Typical anti-Semitic website

 

[ForeverYoung436]

It appears that America may have made a Historic Moment in our1% Democracy by refuting the whishes of Israel and her PAC AIPAC. I can't remember another time when the people ever prevailed on the so called 800 pound gorilla which has orchestrated all ME polices in the ME and especially towards Palestinians in their quest for nation-hood.


The People Against the 800 Pound Gorilla » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

No More War for Israel?

The People Against the 800 Pound Gorilla

by JEAN BRICMONT and DIANA JOHNSTONE


The past ten days have seen what could be the start of an historic turning point away from endless war in the Middle East. Public opinion in the United States, in harmony with the majority of people in the world, has clearly rejected U.S. military intervention in Syria.

But for this turn away from war to be complete and lasting, greater awareness is needed of the forces that have been pushing the United States into these wars, and will surely continue to do so until they are clearly and openly rejected.

An American friend who knows Washington well recently told us that “everybody” there knows that, as far as the drive to war with Syria is concerned, it is Israel that directs U.S. policy. Why then, we replied, don’t opponents of war say it out loud, since, if the American public knew that, support for the war would collapse? Of course, we knew the answer to that question. They are afraid to say all they know, because if you blame the pro-Israel lobby, you are branded an anti-Semite in the media and your career is destroyed.

One who had that experience is James Abourezk, former Senator from South Dakota, who has testified: “I can tell you from personal experience that, at least in the Congress, the support Israel has in that body is based completely on political fear – fear of defeat by anyone who does not do what Israel wants done. I can also tell you that very few members of Congress–at least when I served there – have any affection for Israel or for its lobby. What they have is contempt, but it is silenced by fear of being found out exactly how they feel. I’ve heard too many cloakroom conversations in which members of the Senate will voice their bitter feelings about how they’re pushed around by the lobby to think otherwise. In private one hears the dislike of Israel and the tactics of the lobby, but not one of them is willing to risk the lobby’s animosity by making their feelings public.”
Abourezk added : “The only exceptions to that rule are the feelings of Jewish members, who, I believe, are sincere in their efforts to keep U.S. money flowing to Israel. But that minority does not a U.S. imperial policy make.”[1]

Well, let's actually review the last few wars America has been involved in. The First Gulf War started after Iraq took over Kuwait. It seems to me that Kuwait's oil was the driving force in that. Afghanistan started after 9/11. America had to retaliate. Then there's the Second Gulf War/Iraq. Israel's security might have played a part. But so did oil, and Bush's need to avenge his father's honor.

 

[Lipush]

Can someone translate Pbel? I don't understand what is this thread about.

 

[georgephillip]

The People Against the 800 Pound Gorilla » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

"But many of our friends insist that every war is driven by economic interests. Isn’t this latest war to be waged because big bad capitalists want to exploit Syrian gas, or use Syrian territory for a gas pipeline, or open up the Syrian economy to foreign investments?

"There is a widespread tendency, shared by much of the left, especially among people who think of themselves as Marxists (Marx himself was far more nuanced on this issue), to think that wars must be due to cynically rational calculations by capitalists.

"If this were so, these wars 'for oil' might be seen as 'in the national interest'. But this view sees 'capitalism' as a unified actor issuing orders to obedient politicians on the basis of careful calculations.

"As Bertrand Russell put it, this putative rationality ignores 'the ocean of human folly upon which the fragile barque of human reason insecurely floats'.

"Wars have been waged for all kinds of non-economic reasons, such as religion or revenge, or simply to display power."

Wars will end when those who get rich from them stay alive just long enough to watch their children die.

 

[georgephillip]

Can someone translate Pbel? I don't understand what is this thread about.

Pbel is saying AIPAC's influence on the US Congress has been defeated in regards to US missile strikes on Syria by an overwhelming rejection of said strikes by over 50% of US citizens.

w.counterpunch.org/2013/09/13/the-people-against-the-800-pound-gorilla

"For evidence, it should be enough to quote some recent headlines from the American and Israeli press.

"First, according to the Times of Israel (not exactly an anti-Zionist rag): 'Israel intelligence seen as central to U.S. case against Syria.'[2] (Perhaps the fact that it is 'central' also explains why it is so dubious[3].)

"Then, in Haaretz[4]: 'AIPAC to deploy hundreds of lobbyists to push for Syria action'. Or, in U.S. News and World Report[5]: 'Pro-Israel lobby Seeks to Turn Tide on Syria Debate in Congress'.

"According to Bloomberg[6]: 'Adelson New Obama Ally as Jewish Groups Back Syria Strike'.

"The worst enemies of Obama become his allies, provided he does what 'Jewish groups' want.

"Even rabbis enter the dance: according to the Times of Israel[7], 'U.S. rabbis urge Congress to back Obama on Syria'”.

Why do elements in Israel prefer al-Qa'ida to Assad as one of their northern neighbors?

 

[Hossfly]

Can someone translate Pbel? I don't understand what is this thread about.

Think Counterpunch. Rense. Stormfront. It doesn't have to make any sense. Just mindless babble. Got it now? Good.

 

[Hoffstra]

Right wing Zionists might want Al Qaeda and other extremists to take over Syria so that they can use this as a pretext to steal more Arab land, in the name of "security".

 

[Lipush]

Can someone translate Pbel? I don't understand what is this thread about.

Pbel is saying AIPAC's influence on the US Congress has been defeated in regards to US missile strikes on Syria by an overwhelming rejection of said strikes by over 50% of US citizens.

w.counterpunch.org/2013/09/13/the-people-against-the-800-pound-gorilla

"For evidence, it should be enough to quote some recent headlines from the American and Israeli press.

"First, according to the Times of Israel (not exactly an anti-Zionist rag): 'Israel intelligence seen as central to U.S. case against Syria.'[2] (Perhaps the fact that it is 'central' also explains why it is so dubious[3].)

"Then, in Haaretz[4]: 'AIPAC to deploy hundreds of lobbyists to push for Syria action'. Or, in U.S. News and World Report[5]: 'Pro-Israel lobby Seeks to Turn Tide on Syria Debate in Congress'.

"According to Bloomberg[6]: 'Adelson New Obama Ally as Jewish Groups Back Syria Strike'.

"The worst enemies of Obama become his allies, provided he does what 'Jewish groups' want.

"Even rabbis enter the dance: according to the Times of Israel[7], 'U.S. rabbis urge Congress to back Obama on Syria'”.

Why do elements in Israel prefer al-Qa'ida to Assad as one of their northern neighbors?

We prefer them both losing. regardless of what our government says.

 

[toastman]

Right wing Zionists might want Al Qaeda and other extremists to take over Syria so that they can use this as a pretext to steal more Arab land, in the name of "security".

Is it your life mission to bash Israel every chance you get ?? What's the matter with you with these idiotic comments. YOu REALLY need to get a life pal.

 

[Lipush]

Right wing Zionists might want Al Qaeda and other extremists to take over Syria so that they can use this as a pretext to steal more Arab land, in the name of "security".

That is the most idiotic thing I've ever heard.

And following this board for quite some time now, that's saying something.

 

[Hoffstra]

Is it your life mission to bash Israel every chance you get ?? What's the matter with you with these idiotic comments. YOu REALLY need to get a life pal.

wow, more pathetic and petty personal attacks from you.

and you think I'm the one that needs to get a life.

 

[georgephillip]

Right wing Zionists might want Al Qaeda and other extremists to take over Syria so that they can use this as a pretext to steal more Arab land, in the name of "security".

In addition, while Assad's armed forces are no match for Israel's, Syria does possess an Army, Navy, and Air Force which would not be the case if the dictator goes the way of Saddam and Gaddafi:

"UNITED NATIONS (FinalCall.com) - As battles in Syria rage, there appears to be talk of breaking the country into pieces as a way to end conflict. But the question arises over whose interests would be served by cutting up the Arab nation?

“'The partitioning of Syria is the Israeli solution—their overarching goal is to weaken every Arab state by bringing religion and ethnicity into the equation,' James Paul, executive director of Global Policy Forum, told The Final Call. 'We do not want to live in a world like that,' he said.

"Discussions concerning the possible partitioning of Syria became a hot-button issue in the corridors of the UN after a blogger reported that an unnamed diplomat revealed the plan to partition Syria into three new states—Alawite, Sunni and Kurdish.

"Dr. Stephen Zunes, professor of politics and international studies at the University of San Francisco, explained in an e-mail why he disagrees with those who say Syria may be partitioned: 'The religious and ethnic divisions in Syria are not so tightly geographically demarcated as to make any kind of partition realistically possible.'”

Who benefits from a divided Syria?

 

[toastman]

Is it your life mission to bash Israel every chance you get ?? What's the matter with you with these idiotic comments. YOu REALLY need to get a life pal.

wow, more pathetic and petty personal attacks from you.

and you think I'm the one that needs to get a life.

It's not a personal attack, it's the truth. All day log, all you do is bash Israel, and make allegations against Israel that are extremely far away from reality. Like a few posts ago where you said :
Right wing Zionists might want Al Qaeda and other extremists to take over Syria so that they can use this as a pretext to steal more Arab land, in the name of "security".

It's almost as if you don't even think before you post..

BTW, I know exactly who you are, you've been exposed

 

[Hoffstra]

It's not a personal attack, it's the truth. All day log, all you do is bash Israel, and make allegations against Israel that are extremely far away from reality....

"all day long"????

damn sweety, your extreme obsession with me has got you hallucinating!!

go find another hobby, rather than obsessing over me and ONLY talking about Israel and defending their indefensible positions, toastman.

 

[georgephillip]

Can someone translate Pbel? I don't understand what is this thread about.

Pbel is saying AIPAC's influence on the US Congress has been defeated in regards to US missile strikes on Syria by an overwhelming rejection of said strikes by over 50% of US citizens.

w.counterpunch.org/2013/09/13/the-people-against-the-800-pound-gorilla

"For evidence, it should be enough to quote some recent headlines from the American and Israeli press.

"First, according to the Times of Israel (not exactly an anti-Zionist rag): 'Israel intelligence seen as central to U.S. case against Syria.'[2] (Perhaps the fact that it is 'central' also explains why it is so dubious[3].)

"Then, in Haaretz[4]: 'AIPAC to deploy hundreds of lobbyists to push for Syria action'. Or, in U.S. News and World Report[5]: 'Pro-Israel lobby Seeks to Turn Tide on Syria Debate in Congress'.

"According to Bloomberg[6]: 'Adelson New Obama Ally as Jewish Groups Back Syria Strike'.

"The worst enemies of Obama become his allies, provided he does what 'Jewish groups' want.

"Even rabbis enter the dance: according to the Times of Israel[7], 'U.S. rabbis urge Congress to back Obama on Syria'”.

Why do elements in Israel prefer al-Qa'ida to Assad as one of their northern neighbors?

We prefer them both losing. regardless of what our government says.

Does your security improve if Syria turns into Lebanon?

"'Regime change and balkanization in Syria is very closely tied to the objective of dismantling the "resistance bloc" formed by Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, the Palestinians, and various Iraqi groups opposed to the U.S. and Israel,' said Mahdi Darius Nazemroaya, a Canadian-based sociologist, scholar and research assistant at the Center for Global Research in an e-mail to The Final Call.

Mr. Nazemroaya continued: 'The road to Tehran is being paved through Damascus and the Syrian government was constantly warned for several years to de-link itself from its Iranian ally and the Arab resistance groups.'

"Israel and the White House want to see the region in sectarian upheaval where the Arabs are killing one another, he added.

Who benefits from a divided Syria?

 

[Hoffstra]

Does your security improve if Syria turns into Lebanon?

"'Regime change and balkanization in Syria is very closely tied to the objective of dismantling the "resistance bloc" formed by Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, the Palestinians, and various Iraqi groups opposed to the U.S. and Israel,' said Mahdi Darius Nazemroaya, a Canadian-based sociologist, scholar and research assistant at the Center for Global Research in an e-mail to The Final Call.

Mr. Nazemroaya continued: 'The road to Tehran is being paved through Damascus and the Syrian government was constantly warned for several years to de-link itself from its Iranian ally and the Arab resistance groups.'

"Israel and the White House want to see the region in sectarian upheaval where the Arabs are killing one another, he added.

Who benefits from a divided Syria?

Arabs killing each other is VERY good for Israel.

 

[georgephillip]

Does your security improve if Syria turns into Lebanon?

"'Regime change and balkanization in Syria is very closely tied to the objective of dismantling the "resistance bloc" formed by Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, the Palestinians, and various Iraqi groups opposed to the U.S. and Israel,' said Mahdi Darius Nazemroaya, a Canadian-based sociologist, scholar and research assistant at the Center for Global Research in an e-mail to The Final Call.

Mr. Nazemroaya continued: 'The road to Tehran is being paved through Damascus and the Syrian government was constantly warned for several years to de-link itself from its Iranian ally and the Arab resistance groups.'

"Israel and the White House want to see the region in sectarian upheaval where the Arabs are killing one another, he added.

Who benefits from a divided Syria?

Arabs killing each other is VERY good for Israel.

Particularly if the Arabs lack the military resources of a nation-state like Syria, Iraq, Libya, Lebanon, Somalia, Sudan, and, lastly, the Persians.

"Well over 70,000 people have sought formal protection in Turkey, while the Jordanian government estimates some 150,000 Syrian refugees have entered since March of 2011.

"In Lebanon, 34,096 where displaced Syrians are receiving protection and assistance, according to the UN.

“'This balkanization process is very dangerous, because it essentially means segregating people. It is the "clash of civilizations" that the neo-cons and their Likud cousins in Israel want,' said Mr. Nazemroaya.

The Christians of Syria like their brethren in Iraq are being forced to flee their ancestral homes, he said."

Who benefits from a divided Syria?