The Propaganda Campaign To Wreck Social Security Is Right On Track

[Lesh]

And you think "most people" are just too fucking stupid to be trusted to learn how to handle their money, right?

It's not that I have a low opinion of people...it's just how it is. I now many people who have no idea how to deal with a "portfolio. Hell they can barely manage a checking account or credit card .

I don't judge them but I recognize the danger of leaving retirement to the whims of Wall Street.

it's not like we haven't seen the market crash.

Case in point...my brother in law (who is a reasonably savvy person) had a significant 401K when Covid hit. The market tanked and he panicked. I told him to hang tight but he was scared and sold a lot of his "portfolio". When he bought back in, he had sold low and bought high. Cost him a big per cent of his 401.

That and MUCH worse would be the result should we dump trillions into the market and depend totally on Wall Street for our retirement

 

[Lesh]

Once again you are not investing in "Wall Street"

You are investing in companies and you can choose what companies to invest in.

A distinction without a difference

 

[Blues Man]

Yes they have. By the billions and billions that has been pumped into the markets.

Wrong again.

Bailing out a company is not bailing out the entire stock market

 

[Lesh]

SS keeps people dependent on the government

How is that helping anyone?

It allows for a guaranteed retirement.

How is that BAD?

 

[Lesh]

Here's a question Blues.

Social Security accounts for literally trillions of dollars. What would happen should trillions of dollars be suddenly dumped into the market?

 

[pknopp]

Wrong again.

Bailing out a company is not bailing out the entire stock market

You are intentionally changing definitions because you can not defend your position. The billions and billions that get pumped into the markets affects ALL stocks.

 

[Blues Man]

It's not that I have a low opinion of people...it's just how it is. I now many people who have no idea how to deal with a "portfolio. Hell they can barely manage a checking account or credit card .

I don't judge them but I recognize the danger of leaving retirement to the whims of Wall Street.

it's not like we haven't seen the market crash.

Case in point...my brother in law (who is a reasonably savvy person) had a significant 401K when Covid hit. The market tanked and he panicked. I told him to hang tight but he was scared and sold a lot of his "portfolio". When he bought back in, he had sold low and bought high. Cost him a big per cent of his 401.

That and MUCH worse would be the result should we dump trillions into the market and depend totally on Wall Street for our retirement

It is exactly that.

Anyone and I mean anyone can invest without having a degree in finance.

And again you are investing in companies not in "Wall Street"

Go ahead and pick any 45 year span of time and see what the return of the market was and then try to tell me people are better off with SS.

 

[Blues Man]

Here's a question Blues.

Social Security accounts for literally trillions of dollars. What would happen should trillions of dollars be suddenly dumped into the market?

Gee let's see businesses would expand, profits would rise, dividends would be paid out to stock holders. People would buy bonds and get a safe return

 

[Blues Man]

It allows for a guaranteed retirement.

How is that BAD?

A guaranteed return is a guaranteed loss.

As bad as annuities are people would be better off with one of those instead of SS

 

[Lesh]

Anyone and I mean anyone can invest without having a degree in finance.

ANYONE...and I mean ANYONE...can fuck up in the market and even savvy investors lose their shirts

Go ahead and pick any 45 year span of time

Find any 45 year period that didn't have a major meltdown in that span.

Anyone retiring in the period before or soon after those meltdowns is screwed.

Oh but" the market always comes back"...that's not very comforting if you're DEAD and spent your last years in poverty

 

[Lesh]

Gee let's see businesses would expand, profits would rise, dividends would be paid out to stock holders. People would buy bonds and get a safe return

Wrong. The market would go WILD. Of course people already invested heavily would make a fortune...but the swings that would cause and the scams...would be devastating.

Of course you are one of those "heavily invested" and see this as a golden cow

 

[pknopp]

ANYONE...and I mean ANYONE...can fuck up in the market and even savvy investors lose their shirts

Find any 45 year period that didn't have a major meltdown in that span.

Anyone retiring in the period before or soon after those meltdowns is screwed.

Oh but" the market always comes back"...that's not very comforting if you're DEAD and spent your last years in poverty

How many meltdowns have we had in the last 45 years? 7-8? What would the markets look like without any intervention to prop them back up?

They wouldn't exist.

 

[Lesh]

A guaranteed return is a guaranteed loss.

As bad as annuities are people would be better off with one of those instead of SS

I had an annuity (not a 401K) and it was a disaster.

 

[Blues Man]

ANYONE...and I mean ANYONE...can fuck up in the market and even savvy investors lose their shirts

Find any 45 year period that didn't have a major meltdown in that span.

Anyone retiring in the period before or soon after those meltdowns is screwed.

Oh but" the market always comes back"...that's not very comforting if you're DEAD and spent your last years in poverty

It doesn't matter as the NET result is still a better gain than SS

That's the point.

Even with bear markets and recessions the average return in any 45 year time frame is a plus and don't forget when you retire you don't sell everything you leave the bulk of it in the market in an extremely conservative position.

 

[Blues Man]

I had an annuity (not a 401K) and it was a disaster.

What kind of an annuity?

 

[Blues Man]

How many meltdowns have we had in the last 45 years? 7-8? What would the markets look like without any intervention to prop them back up?

They wouldn't exist.

Not every bear market resulted in a bail out

 

[pknopp]

Not every bear market resulted in a bail out

Pretty much it did and the bear markets are because of the money being pumped into them. Tell, me, why should money be free? The markets were clamoring for negative rates.

Trump pushed it idea. How is the idea of negative rates not an indication of a failed system?

 

[Blues Man]

Pretty much it did and the bear markets are because of the money being pumped into them. Tell, me, why should money be free? The markets were clamoring for negative rates.

Trump pushed it idea. How is the idea of negative rates not an indication of a failed system?

Wrong again

Who got government money bail outs in this most recent bear market?

 

[Blues Man]

Pretty much it did and the bear markets are because of the money being pumped into them. Tell, me, why should money be free? The markets were clamoring for negative rates.

Trump pushed it idea. How is the idea of negative rates not an indication of a failed system?

And the average return of the market in any 45 year period is positive not negative.

The lifetime average return of the market is over 9%

 

[Lesh]

It doesn't matter as the NET result is still a better gain than SS

It matters greatly to people who have retired anywhere near those market crashes...and even more if there is no social security SAFETY NET to fall back on

Look...it's not as this hasn't been tried.

Chile did this in the 80s/90s (at the behest of American "conservatives") and it was an unmitigated disaster.