The pros and cons of armed guards in schools.

[Big Black Dog]

Next thing you know, on the list of required school supplies prior to the beginning of the school year, we will see "bullet-proof vest" listed.

 

[AmyNation]

Well, of you're worried about public worker pensions, adding at the least, 2 full time armed guards to every one of the 100k public schools, is not going to help that.

I know the fed is broke, and I'm aware states are broke too. However, mentioning the cost means I'm a heartless child hater.

You? Never! You are obviously far too cute for that. I however, am a fiscally responsible person who desires nothing more than the best bang for the buck I can get as an individual and as a taxpayer. Which maybe makes me a cold heartless bastard, but I do care about the kids.

Lol! My sentiments exactly

I actually don't think creating an army of public school guards is the most sensible option.

The school in sandy hook had recently installed a new security system, which was simply a locked door and a buzz in feature. The shooter used the guns on the door and blew his way into the building.

I think having locked, bullet proof double doors, with a security camera is more sensible.

We cant make schools 100% safe. It's impossible. If someone is intent on getting in, a security guard won't stop him. However we can make it harder to get in and to give the people inside some warning time so they can call for help.

I also think schools need to drill for emergencies, and they need plan even for this kind of madness.

 

[Katzndogz]

Armed guards won't help. We have a sadistic culture fed by liberalism. That well would have to dry up first.

 

[AmyNation]

Next thing you know, on the list of required school supplies prior to the beginning of the school year, we will see "bullet-proof vest" listed.

Just saw on the news, bullet proof back packs. :/

However they also sell bully/stranger danger backpacks, that emit a loud emergency sound when a cord is pulled.

 

[Wiseacre]

We're talking about a phenomenon that happens .008% to the schools in this country. On that logic, we need to place moats around all public schools because on average it's more likely for a drunk driver to randomly crash his car into a school. And let's put two armed guards in the 248,000 public schools in the country at $30,000 a year. That's $14,880,000,000 a year without even considering any other funds. And there's no guarantees this people will be of any use when something bad happens. They could just easily shoot innocents or make the situation worse.

We're talking about 20 dead kids, 6 or 7 years old, and trying to find ways to make sure it doesn't happen again. Question: how high does the percentage have to be until you think it might deserve some attention?

Higher than .008% to warrant several billion dollars in public funding.

Some people might be willing to spend that money on school security rather than, oh I don't know, maybe high speed rail, off shore wind farms, and other bullshit crap that isn't economically feasible.

 

[bobcollum]

Armed guards won't help. We have a sadistic culture fed by liberalism. That well would have to dry up first.

You're a hoot.

 

[9thIDdoc]

 

[9thIDdoc]

 

[Wiseacre]

There's a school district in north Texas that has some teachers and staff members carrying concealed weapons in school, along with cameras and special locks. I was just idly wondering if you'd want your kids protected by teachers that can shoot back. Might be the easiest and most cost effective way to improve student security.


Taking a Logical Step to Protect Students, a Texas School District Allows Armed Teachers « International Liberty

 

[Vel]

We have an SRO in all of our county schools.
Rutherford County :: Tennessee :: Sheriff's Department :: School Resource Officers

 

[auditor0007]

Disclaimer, the is KG's idea. I thought it was interesting and warrants a discussion, but she doesn't really want to talk about it.

Poll to follow.


I figure it will cost around 7-8 billion a year( thats really the low end) to keep and maintain armed guards in K-12 public schools.

The risks that ive so far thought of are

the guard being disarmed and someone using his gun to shoot up the school
an accident with the guards gun
an over zealous guard shooting a student during an altercation

The pro being that armed guards will be in the school at all times and able to defend the students from the kind of attack we have seen.

The questions are
Good idea/bad idea and why
Should it be a ferdeal or state issue
Who should pay for it

I tried calculating the cost of having two police officers in every school. I figured somewhere in the range of $13 billion per year. How many kids are killed in schools every year? If we estimate the number to be 100, which I believe is high, then the cost equates to $130 million per saved life, if we stop the killings completely.

Now lets look at some problems with this. If I'm a raging lunatic hell bent on killing as many kids and teachers as possible, and I know there are a couple of cops hanging out eating donuts and drinking coffee all day long, I will plan to first take out the two cops. That is first on my agenda; kill the cops or guards and confiscate their guns. Now I can go on my rampage and kill at will. As you can see, having armed guards or police in the schools isn't a full guarantee that we could avoid a mass killing like Sandy Hook or Columbine or any other school shooting.

So what are some better alternatives? As much as I'm not crazy about arming teachers, I think we could train a number of willing teachers in each school to have access to some high powered weapons for situations such as this. Not all teachers would be capable or should be asked to be involved, but most every school has enough teachers or administrators who could have access to the right weapons to at least attempt to thwart such an attack. Also, if the shooter was clueless as to who the teachers were that might be armed, it gives them less of an advantage.

Looking at the events at Sandy Hook, the principal lunged at the shooter trying to take him down. She was killed because she had nothing to defend herself with or to attack with, yet she went after him with no weapon. Just imagine if she had had a gun and was trained. Even if the shooter was wearing a vest, a few good shots would have knocked him down and he could have been detained. I'm not a big fan of having guns in our schools, but I think if we did it the right way, it might be workable. I also think it would be much less costly and probably more effective than having armed guards in every school.

 

[del]

yeah, the world needs more mall cops

giving them guns is just the cherry on top

 

[9thIDdoc]

We have an SRO in all of our county schools.
Rutherford County :: Tennessee :: Sheriff's Department :: School Resource Officers

We have one in Bedford Co., Tn also

 

[Vel]

yeah, the world needs more mall cops

giving them guns is just the cherry on top

Mall cops? Our SRO's are deputies who happen to be assigned to a school.

 

[del]

yeah, the world needs more mall cops

giving them guns is just the cherry on top

Mall cops? Our SRO's are deputies who happen to be assigned to a school.

i wasn't talking about your sros. i was talking about armed guards

 

[AmyNation]

There's a school district in north Texas that has some teachers and staff members carrying concealed weapons in school, along with cameras and special locks. I was just idly wondering if you'd want your kids protected by teachers that can shoot back. Might be the easiest and most cost effective way to improve student security.


Taking a Logical Step to Protect Students, a Texas School District Allows Armed Teachers « International Liberty

I wouldnt.

There's no way I would feel safe sending my baby to 1st grade knowing the teacher has a .45 under her skirt.

 

[AmyNation]

Disclaimer, the is KG's idea. I thought it was interesting and warrants a discussion, but she doesn't really want to talk about it.

Poll to follow.


I figure it will cost around 7-8 billion a year( thats really the low end) to keep and maintain armed guards in K-12 public schools.

The risks that ive so far thought of are

the guard being disarmed and someone using his gun to shoot up the school
an accident with the guards gun
an over zealous guard shooting a student during an altercation

The pro being that armed guards will be in the school at all times and able to defend the students from the kind of attack we have seen.

The questions are
Good idea/bad idea and why
Should it be a ferdeal or state issue
Who should pay for it

I tried calculating the cost of having two police officers in every school. I figured somewhere in the range of $13 billion per year. How many kids are killed in schools every year? If we estimate the number to be 100, which I believe is high, then the cost equates to $130 million per saved life, if we stop the killings completely.

Now lets look at some problems with this. If I'm a raging lunatic hell bent on killing as many kids and teachers as possible, and I know there are a couple of cops hanging out eating donuts and drinking coffee all day long, I will plan to first take out the two cops. That is first on my agenda; kill the cops or guards and confiscate their guns. Now I can go on my rampage and kill at will. As you can see, having armed guards or police in the schools isn't a full guarantee that we could avoid a mass killing like Sandy Hook or Columbine or any other school shooting.

So what are some better alternatives? As much as I'm not crazy about arming teachers, I think we could train a number of willing teachers in each school to have access to some high powered weapons for situations such as this. Not all teachers would be capable or should be asked to be involved, but most every school has enough teachers or administrators who could have access to the right weapons to at least attempt to thwart such an attack. Also, if the shooter was clueless as to who the teachers were that might be armed, it gives them less of an advantage.

Looking at the events at Sandy Hook, the principal lunged at the shooter trying to take him down. She was killed because she had nothing to defend herself with or to attack with, yet she went after him with no weapon. Just imagine if she had had a gun and was trained. Even if the shooter was wearing a vest, a few good shots would have knocked him down and he could have been detained. I'm not a big fan of having guns in our schools, but I think if we did it the right way, it might be workable. I also think it would be much less costly and probably more effective than having armed guards in every school.

I would be more open to something like this. A gun, secured in a safe in the office or teachers lounge, and a few trusted teachers trained on it.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Next thing you know, on the list of required school supplies prior to the beginning of the school year, we will see "bullet-proof vest" listed.

Just saw a news story about a bullet proof backpack. They've sold more in the past week than they usually sell in more than a month.

Arming teachers is utterly ridiculous and would be no more effective than carrying guns has been among the populace. We have more guns than ever before but the shootings continue.

From the moment the shooter became known or appeared in the classroom, the teacher would have get the key, unlock the closet, get a second key, the gun out of a locked box, get the ammo, load the gun, move the children out of the line of fire and then, finally, shoot at an intruder.

If people who currently carry guns have not been able to shoot back, why would we believe a teacher could do what others can't? Why haven't civilian gun nuts shot back at any of the mass killers? (Yes, I did post that I had found ONE example of a civilian shooting back. ONE.)

What kind of gun would you want the teacher to have access to? What about liability insurance?

So many reasons why this is a stupid idea and all of them explain exactly why idiot Rick Perry is all set to go with it. I won't be surprised if other mentally deficient R governors jump right on this bandwagon.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Disclaimer, the is KG's idea. I thought it was interesting and warrants a discussion, but she doesn't really want to talk about it.

Poll to follow.


I figure it will cost around 7-8 billion a year( thats really the low end) to keep and maintain armed guards in K-12 public schools.

The risks that ive so far thought of are

the guard being disarmed and someone using his gun to shoot up the school
an accident with the guards gun
an over zealous guard shooting a student during an altercation

The pro being that armed guards will be in the school at all times and able to defend the students from the kind of attack we have seen.

The questions are
Good idea/bad idea and why
Should it be a ferdeal or state issue
Who should pay for it

I tried calculating the cost of having two police officers in every school. I figured somewhere in the range of $13 billion per year. How many kids are killed in schools every year? If we estimate the number to be 100, which I believe is high, then the cost equates to $130 million per saved life, if we stop the killings completely.

Now lets look at some problems with this. If I'm a raging lunatic hell bent on killing as many kids and teachers as possible, and I know there are a couple of cops hanging out eating donuts and drinking coffee all day long, I will plan to first take out the two cops. That is first on my agenda; kill the cops or guards and confiscate their guns. Now I can go on my rampage and kill at will. As you can see, having armed guards or police in the schools isn't a full guarantee that we could avoid a mass killing like Sandy Hook or Columbine or any other school shooting.

So what are some better alternatives? As much as I'm not crazy about arming teachers, I think we could train a number of willing teachers in each school to have access to some high powered weapons for situations such as this. Not all teachers would be capable or should be asked to be involved, but most every school has enough teachers or administrators who could have access to the right weapons to at least attempt to thwart such an attack. Also, if the shooter was clueless as to who the teachers were that might be armed, it gives them less of an advantage.

Looking at the events at Sandy Hook, the principal lunged at the shooter trying to take him down. She was killed because she had nothing to defend herself with or to attack with, yet she went after him with no weapon. Just imagine if she had had a gun and was trained. Even if the shooter was wearing a vest, a few good shots would have knocked him down and he could have been detained. I'm not a big fan of having guns in our schools, but I think if we did it the right way, it might be workable. I also think it would be much less costly and probably more effective than having armed guards in every school.

I would be more open to something like this. A gun, secured in a safe in the office or teachers lounge, and a few trusted teachers trained on it.

How would the school guarantee that one or more of those teachers would be in the same place as the gun at the very moment a shooter arrived at the school?

 

[Sallow]

A monumentally bad idea.

This is the type of society conservatives are looking for..wild west for everyone!

No thanks.