The Quandary Christians Put Gays In

[Syriusly]

Where in the constitution are you granted a right to marry? Does this also confer an obligation upon the church to marry two people? I can't wait for you leftwing nutters to demand that a Muslim cleric marry two dudes... that oughtta be a laugh riot.

The homos aren't going to target a Muslim baker for a cake. Muslims are allies in the war on Christians.

Muslims have already been targeted. Muslim cab drivers who refused passengers carrying alcohol were taken to court,

and the Muslims lost. Pay attention before you spout off.

I'm referring to the homos. You obviously are the one who needs to pay attention.

Because it doesn't fit your agenda.

'war on Christians' in this country exists only in your brain.

For 200 years Christians have actually waged war on homosexuals in this country- passing laws to imprison them and have them fired from jobs- but now Christians can't do that anymore.

So when someone tries to buy a cake from a Christian- that is 'War on Christianity'.

What whiners.

My agenda is the truth. Homosexuals are filthy disgusting creatures who should not be adopting children or allowed in a classroom. Christophobic hateful bigot.

Your agenda is whining and hate.

You have no clue as to what Jesus message was.

You are just a hate ridden sad little homophobe.

 

[Flash Farley]

The Christians who support gay marriages are not true Christians. You have to be ashamed. Just because of people like you so many Americans turned away from Christianity.

Well I am sure that other Christians appreciate you telling them that they are not Christians. Eventually your 'Christians' become a fairly small club after you start excluding every Christian you disagree with on religious values.

I know evangelicals who don't consider Catholics to be Christians. I know others who don't consider Mormons to be Christians.
I don't believe in your God- but if he were to exist- you would think that he would either be the one to make that judgement- or provide a clearer instruction manual- one that didn't result in 3 major branches of Christianity, and hundreds of sub branches.
View attachment 43956

The Christians who support gay marriages are not true Christians. You have to be ashamed. Just because of people like you so many Americans turned away from Christianity.

Well I am sure that other Christians appreciate you telling them that they are not Christians. Eventually your 'Christians' become a fairly small club after you start excluding every Christian you disagree with on religious values.

I know evangelicals who don't consider Catholics to be Christians. I know others who don't consider Mormons to be Christians.
I don't believe in your God- but if he were to exist- you would think that he would either be the one to make that judgement- or provide a clearer instruction manual- one that didn't result in 3 major branches of Christianity, and hundreds of sub branches.
View attachment 43956

Christophobic hateful bigot.

 

[Flash Farley]

The homos aren't going to target a Muslim baker for a cake. Muslims are allies in the war on Christians.

Muslims have already been targeted. Muslim cab drivers who refused passengers carrying alcohol were taken to court,

and the Muslims lost. Pay attention before you spout off.

I'm referring to the homos. You obviously are the one who needs to pay attention.

Because it doesn't fit your agenda.

'war on Christians' in this country exists only in your brain.

For 200 years Christians have actually waged war on homosexuals in this country- passing laws to imprison them and have them fired from jobs- but now Christians can't do that anymore.

So when someone tries to buy a cake from a Christian- that is 'War on Christianity'.

What whiners.

My agenda is the truth. Homosexuals are filthy disgusting creatures who should not be adopting children or allowed in a classroom. Christophobic hateful bigot.

Your agenda is whining and hate.

You have no clue as to what Jesus message was.

You are just a hate ridden sad little homophobe.

You're a whiney hateful Christophobic bigot.

 

[deltex1]

The same reason that there is less acceptance of Christianity. Indoctrination.

So you think it was a failure of Christian indoctrination?

The majority of Americans are Christian. And guess what- attitudes of Christians have been changing also.

View attachment 43954

Now- why do you think the attitude towards mixed race marriages changed?

It was successful indoctrination by the media and government school system.

Christianity has no doctrine against mixed marriage. Never. That's a cultural phenomenon.

So you are saying that indoctrination against racial bias in marriage worked.

If that is how you think attitudes have changed regarding sexual orientation bias- okay with me.

No, you're saying that.

I'm saying there is no Christian doctrine prohibition of mixed race marriage. There is a Christian doctrine prohibition of homosexuality.
I can't make it any plainer.

There is no Christian doctrine prohibiting female homosexuality- it doesn't exist other than through the VERY strained rationalization of a line by Paul.

And yes- there were Christians who very much claimed that God was against mixed race marriages- and provided citations from the Bible.

Just goes to you show you- whatever the belief- there are Christians who will find a quotation from the bible to support it.

Homosexuality in and of itself is not sinful. Acting on the desire, publicizing it, glorifying it, rubbing it in humanity's face, teaching it to our children is where the "sin" comes in.

 

[deltex1]

I'm in the yard working...try it.

 

[Syriusly]

So you think it was a failure of Christian indoctrination?

The majority of Americans are Christian. And guess what- attitudes of Christians have been changing also.

View attachment 43954

Now- why do you think the attitude towards mixed race marriages changed?

It was successful indoctrination by the media and government school system.

Christianity has no doctrine against mixed marriage. Never. That's a cultural phenomenon.

So you are saying that indoctrination against racial bias in marriage worked.

If that is how you think attitudes have changed regarding sexual orientation bias- okay with me.

No, you're saying that.

I'm saying there is no Christian doctrine prohibition of mixed race marriage. There is a Christian doctrine prohibition of homosexuality.
I can't make it any plainer.

There is no Christian doctrine prohibiting female homosexuality- it doesn't exist other than through the VERY strained rationalization of a line by Paul.

And yes- there were Christians who very much claimed that God was against mixed race marriages- and provided citations from the Bible.

Just goes to you show you- whatever the belief- there are Christians who will find a quotation from the bible to support it.

Homosexuality in and of itself is not sinful. Acting on the desire, publicizing it, glorifying it, rubbing it in humanity's face, teaching it to our children is where the "sin" comes in.

Just like Divorce?

 

[Syriusly]

Muslims have already been targeted. Muslim cab drivers who refused passengers carrying alcohol were taken to court,

and the Muslims lost. Pay attention before you spout off.

I'm referring to the homos. You obviously are the one who needs to pay attention.

Because it doesn't fit your agenda.

'war on Christians' in this country exists only in your brain.

For 200 years Christians have actually waged war on homosexuals in this country- passing laws to imprison them and have them fired from jobs- but now Christians can't do that anymore.

So when someone tries to buy a cake from a Christian- that is 'War on Christianity'.

What whiners.

My agenda is the truth. Homosexuals are filthy disgusting creatures who should not be adopting children or allowed in a classroom. Christophobic hateful bigot.

Your agenda is whining and hate.

You have no clue as to what Jesus message was.

You are just a hate ridden sad little homophobe.

You're a whiney hateful Christophobic bigot.

Actually- I like most Christians. And have nothing against Christianity- I am opposed to you bigots like you who abuse the Bible to promote your bigotry.

And whine and cry about being a victim because you can no longer abuse homosexuals.

 

[Flash Farley]

It was successful indoctrination by the media and government school system.

Christianity has no doctrine against mixed marriage. Never. That's a cultural phenomenon.

So you are saying that indoctrination against racial bias in marriage worked.

If that is how you think attitudes have changed regarding sexual orientation bias- okay with me.

No, you're saying that.

I'm saying there is no Christian doctrine prohibition of mixed race marriage. There is a Christian doctrine prohibition of homosexuality.
I can't make it any plainer.

There is no Christian doctrine prohibiting female homosexuality- it doesn't exist other than through the VERY strained rationalization of a line by Paul.

And yes- there were Christians who very much claimed that God was against mixed race marriages- and provided citations from the Bible.

Just goes to you show you- whatever the belief- there are Christians who will find a quotation from the bible to support it.

Homosexuality in and of itself is not sinful. Acting on the desire, publicizing it, glorifying it, rubbing it in humanity's face, teaching it to our children is where the "sin" comes in.

Just like Divorce?

Homos get divorced.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

Only anti Christian bigots would deny Christian Government clerks the Right to run roughshod over the Constitutional Rights of Gays.......oh the humanity

 

[Statistikhengst]

Not a religious discussion, a discussion on cultural perspectives.

I do mix it up in our discussions about gay culture and to me it's largely sport, but there's another part of me that attempts to see these social issues through the eyes of gay people. Two of the closest friends of my family happen to be gay, a woman I've known since I was in Junior High who was a teacher of mine and her partner. They are getting married this month and we will be enthusiastic attenders. My trust in them is implicit to the point they often babysit our 4 kids and are called Aunt by them. Yes they are that close.

So their up and coming wedding has gotten me thinking about the issue of gay marriage in the Christian church. They are Christians and church goers, attending a Reconciling congregation, the kind more accepting of gays and gay marriage.

I'm extremely happy for them, so is my wife and my in laws who are somewhat to very progressive. It occurs to me to wonder why happily married Christians would deny nuptial bliss to any couple that love each other. Here's the issue gays are put in by Christians. They're told that the lifestyle is sinful and that they should either abstain from sex altogether or get married to a person of the opposite sex. Many men have done that, living a lie until the lie gets too great and they revert back to their sexual set point, often cheating on their wives in secretive dalliances or outright abandoning their family.

Exhibit A:

Option B is not any better. St. Paul himself said that it is better for a man to marry than to burn with desire. Since Exodus International has demonstrated to us that it's not possible to "pray the gay away" or use therapy to change one's sexual orientation, what choice do they have? Let's review the choices again:

1. Marry a person of the opposite sex and live a lie with disastrous results that hurt an innocent wife and children.

2. Burn with sexual desire until the desire becomes to great and men hook up with other men, often multiple partners increasing the chances for STD's and drug abuse.

3. Same sex marriage; marrying a person they are attracted to and can love for the rest of their lives in a committed manner.

I'm going to be honest, though I don't like the Supreme Court circumventing the constitutional and republican form of government that clearly puts this issue to the states to decide, I'm also not of the opinion that our civilization is imperiled because people who love each other are getting married. I'm just not.

So here I am, a Christian, telling my fellow Christians that the solution may be to start talking TO homosexuals instead of about them; to forge friendships like I have and gain a new perspective and try to see the world through their eyes.

I have and I got no regrets about it.

I am confused by your OP title.

Are you saying that a person cannot be both Christian and gay?

Actually I made the case for the exact opposite....or did you miss where I said these women who are marrying are both committed Christians?

Take your Lefterizer filter off and read it again.

Thanks for the clarification.

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[Statistikhengst]

The Christians who support gay marriages are not true Christians. You have to be ashamed. Just because of people like you so many Americans turned away from Christianity.

Just so we're clear, not only have you set yourself up as a fair arbiter of who is and isn't Christian, but you also have a battery of links ready to post demonstrating that people are waxing in antipathy toward Christianity because it's becoming more accepting of homosexuals.....which I'm sure your next post will include.

The problem with the Christian Church at least in America is that Protestantism has taught you to see the Bible as a legal document that holds every religious concept prisoner to a narrow interpretation of eclectically chosen scriptures. You aren't pursuing the heart of God, nor his passion to reach sinners, nor his teachings that we build bridges and reach out to everyone, including homosexuals, for Christ. Instead you quote Leviticus and build walls, outside of which you fling fiery arrows, making enemies out of the very people Jesus told you to reach.

So Jesus is looking for other vessels, anyone who will build those bridges and become the face of Christ to those he wants to reach.

Does the Bible condemn homosexuality or not? It's a yes or no answer

The Tanakh does not. It condemns two very specific homosexual acts.

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[Statistikhengst]

Just so we're clear, not only have you set yourself up as a fair arbiter of who is and isn't Christian, but you also have a battery of links ready to post demonstrating that people are waxing in antipathy toward Christianity because it's becoming more accepting of homosexuals.....which I'm sure your next post will include.

The problem with the Christian Church at least in America is that Protestantism has taught you to see the Bible as a legal document that holds every religious concept prisoner to a narrow interpretation of eclectically chosen scriptures. You aren't pursuing the heart of God, nor his passion to reach sinners, nor his teachings that we build bridges and reach out to everyone, including homosexuals, for Christ. Instead you quote Leviticus and build walls, outside of which you fling fiery arrows, making enemies out of the very people Jesus told you to reach.

So Jesus is looking for other vessels, anyone who will build those bridges and become the face of Christ to those he wants to reach.

Does the Bible condemn homosexuality or not? It's a yes or no answer

The Bible condemns rampant, promiscuous, pagan homosexual orgies, yes. I don't believe it condemns a loving couple living in a committed, monogamous, relationship. In these women who are domestic partners getting ready to marry this month, I see touches of grace, evidence of God's love and presence. I don't think God condemns what they are doing in the least. We should all get to know people like this to get a better perspective on where God's heart is....

Which should be what's most important to us.

The bible condemns it in several versus. That's the point, a church can't vote on God's laws. You're either all in or you're out, there is no in between. Homosexuals are welcome in our Church as everyone is but there won't be any SSM or blessing of a same sex union. It's not happening

I fully support the right of your church and mine to preach what they believe to be true, not participate in anything they believe to be wrong, and to be free from coercion by government or any other force. There is no issue there and there's no doubt that my own Catholic religion will not budge on this issue one inch.

I haven't swung over to the "gay rights" side, I'm just expressing my honest opinion born of a wonderful relationship with a gay couple that God is not at odds with what they have together. My spiritual discernment is rarely off and I have no doubt at what I'm seeing, that gay Christians such as truly love the Lord as I do, live lives according to his commandments and teachings, and will be in heaven just as I will be.

I just don't know why so many Christians think to limit God's grace, I just don't....

Our opinions differ. I respect yours and hopefully you respect mine

The way you treat people who are not exactly as you are in USMB, why should anyone respect anything about you, you fucking asswipe?

There is no way in Heaven or Hell that you can be a "christian". Not even the nastiest of Christians is even 1/10th as nasty as you are.

If you really are a Christian (lmao), then show it and call Nat to this thread and publicly apologize to him for being such a fuckwad to him at every turn ever since you got to USMB.

But you will not do that, because no way in Hell are you a Christian. Your potty mouth surely makes your Jesus cry.

So, fuck off, ****.

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[Statistikhengst]

That's a bunch of horseshit. Circa 8-10% of the animal Kingdom exhibits same-Sex sex. There are literally hundreds of studies over this phenomenom, SassyLesbiAsswipe.


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I was just laughing at how stupid you look hurling insults at Sassy from behind a silly clown face.

Go ahead, do it again. You're bringing an element of humor to this thread that's much in need.

Nice show of "christian" hubris. Thanks for sharing. It confirms what I've long suspected about "Christians".



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Christophobic hateful bigot.

Uhm, no. You seem grumpy
Did you miss your naptime, your milk bottle, or both??

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Christophobic hateful bigot.

Ahhh, so, you are a drone...

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[Statistikhengst]

I would not have guessed you were a Christian. Thank goodness you are because I sure hate when liberals have to borrow someone else's faith to make their point.

I am glad that the couple you mention have a good friend such as you, good for them. But why is the forced compliance of anyone else so important to them?

I am exactly as I represented myself to be in the OP, a Catholic man married and with 4 children, and having two close friends who are gay women getting married. It's very personal to me and it's an opportunity to see another perspective that I think all Christians should seek out. Why don't all Christians have close gay friends? Could it be because we're better at repelling and condemning them than we are at building bridges as Christ taught us to?

And the better question is, why are we making it an issue of force?

It is an issue of force because the issue was decided by forced compliance.

Doesn't the RCC still oppose gay marriage and homosexuality in general? When a gay friend of mine got married, to the same gender, I congratulated them and wished them well. Since the issue of children won't arise it is hardly different then when I used to have room mates of the same gender, so them being married isn't really a big deal to me. What irks me is that twisted logic of some and states being forced to comply.

What also concerns me is that I believe that not all, but some, are born "that way."

There are so many directions that this issue can go. On this thread I'm not addressing what the Supreme Court did and I'm trying to keep it focused on our attitudes. Had I not had close gay friends who are getting married this month, I might not feel as I do, but having those friends has tempered my perception of this issue and allowed me another perspective. And I think that what your friend is experiencing with the person he married goes well beyond a roommate relationship. You should hang out with him more, get to know how he sees it.

And why do you think there is more acceptance of gays and gay marriage today?

The same reason that there is less acceptance of Christianity. Indoctrination.

Actually, there is less acceptance of Christianity because instead of actually following the words of Jeshua, many "Christians", esp those in powerful positions, act like total asswipes in indeed, non-Christians notice the gross and very unseemly disconnect. Of course, you will not accept this, for when is the last time that a Christian actually took responsibility for his actions, eh? Nope, they just Duggar their way out of the problem.


Yaaaawn...

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[Statistikhengst]

It is an issue of force because the issue was decided by forced compliance.

Doesn't the RCC still oppose gay marriage and homosexuality in general? When a gay friend of mine got married, to the same gender, I congratulated them and wished them well. Since the issue of children won't arise it is hardly different then when I used to have room mates of the same gender, so them being married isn't really a big deal to me. What irks me is that twisted logic of some and states being forced to comply.

What also concerns me is that I believe that not all, but some, are born "that way."

There are so many directions that this issue can go. On this thread I'm not addressing what the Supreme Court did and I'm trying to keep it focused on our attitudes. Had I not had close gay friends who are getting married this month, I might not feel as I do, but having those friends has tempered my perception of this issue and allowed me another perspective. And I think that what your friend is experiencing with the person he married goes well beyond a roommate relationship. You should hang out with him more, get to know how he sees it.

And why do you think there is more acceptance of gays and gay marriage today?

The same reason that there is less acceptance of Christianity. Indoctrination.

So you think it was a failure of Christian indoctrination?

The majority of Americans are Christian. And guess what- attitudes of Christians have been changing also.

View attachment 43954

Now- why do you think the attitude towards mixed race marriages changed?

It was successful indoctrination by the media and government school system.

Christianity has no doctrine against mixed marriage. Never. That's a cultural phenomenon.

Oh, so, you are against mixed race marriages.

I am totally shocked.

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[Statistikhengst]

I basically agree. But why isn't a civil contract enough. Live together. Love together. Benefit together. But leave marriage intact. Perhaps your friends don't push the political agenda...but the political left does...and it has little to do with concern for gays.

It's a civil right that was denied because a bunch of religious people who have always been the worst gay-bashers didn't want it. Now the christian right is acting like an oppressed victim, maybe if they had been a little less hateful and oppressive for the last two thousand years someone would give a shit.

Marriage defined as a one man and one woman predates Christianity by a long shot... I really tire of you leftists morons blaming everything on Christianity. Please educate yourself just a little bit..

Really? Marriage has been defined as one man and one woman and one man and many women long before Christianity.

Marriage has also been defined as an institution where the woman is the property of the man.

Why wasn't a 'civil contract' enough?

Because Conservative Christians fought civil contracts just as hard as they fought marriage for same gender couples.

And Americans have no right to a 'civil contract' but we all have a right to marriage.

Where in the constitution are you granted a right to marry? Does this also confer an obligation upon the church to marry two people? I can't wait for you leftwing nutters to demand that a Muslim cleric marry two dudes... that oughtta be a laugh riot.

The homos aren't going to target a Muslim baker for a cake. Muslims are allies in the war on Christians.

You are a complete whacko.

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[Statistikhengst]

Where in the constitution are you granted a right to marry? Does this also confer an obligation upon the church to marry two people? I can't wait for you leftwing nutters to demand that a Muslim cleric marry two dudes... that oughtta be a laugh riot.

The homos aren't going to target a Muslim baker for a cake. Muslims are allies in the war on Christians.

Muslims have already been targeted. Muslim cab drivers who refused passengers carrying alcohol were taken to court,

and the Muslims lost. Pay attention before you spout off.

I'm referring to the homos. You obviously are the one who needs to pay attention.

Because it doesn't fit your agenda.

'war on Christians' in this country exists only in your brain.

For 200 years Christians have actually waged war on homosexuals in this country- passing laws to imprison them and have them fired from jobs- but now Christians can't do that anymore.

So when someone tries to buy a cake from a Christian- that is 'War on Christianity'.

What whiners.

My agenda is the truth. Homosexuals are filthy disgusting creatures who should not be adopting children or allowed in a classroom. Christophobic hateful bigot.

- you are making Christianity look wonderful.

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[guno]

The Christians who support gay marriages are not true Christians. You have to be ashamed. Just because of people like you so many Americans turned away from Christianity.

Just so we're clear, not only have you set yourself up as a fair arbiter of who is and isn't Christian, but you also have a battery of links ready to post demonstrating that people are waxing in antipathy toward Christianity because it's becoming more accepting of homosexuals.....which I'm sure your next post will include.

The problem with the Christian Church at least in America is that Protestantism has taught you to see the Bible as a legal document that holds every religious concept prisoner to a narrow interpretation of eclectically chosen scriptures. You aren't pursuing the heart of God, nor his passion to reach sinners, nor his teachings that we build bridges and reach out to everyone, including homosexuals, for Christ. Instead you quote Leviticus and build walls, outside of which you fling fiery arrows, making enemies out of the very people Jesus told you to reach.

So Jesus is looking for other vessels, anyone who will build those bridges and become the face of Christ to those he wants to reach.

Does the Bible condemn homosexuality or not? It's a yes or no answer

The Bible condemns rampant, promiscuous, pagan homosexual orgies, yes. I don't believe it condemns a loving couple living in a committed, monogamous, relationship. In these women who are domestic partners getting ready to marry this month, I see touches of grace, evidence of God's love and presence. I don't think God condemns what they are doing in the least. We should all get to know people like this to get a better perspective on where God's heart is....

Which should be what's most important to us.

The bible condemns it in several versus. That's the point, a church can't vote on God's laws. You're either all in or you're out, there is no in between. Homosexuals are welcome in our Church as everyone is but there won't be any SSM or blessing of a same sex union. It's not happening

shiksa please

 

[Flash Farley]

The homos aren't going to target a Muslim baker for a cake. Muslims are allies in the war on Christians.

Muslims have already been targeted. Muslim cab drivers who refused passengers carrying alcohol were taken to court,

and the Muslims lost. Pay attention before you spout off.

I'm referring to the homos. You obviously are the one who needs to pay attention.

Because it doesn't fit your agenda.

'war on Christians' in this country exists only in your brain.

For 200 years Christians have actually waged war on homosexuals in this country- passing laws to imprison them and have them fired from jobs- but now Christians can't do that anymore.

So when someone tries to buy a cake from a Christian- that is 'War on Christianity'.

What whiners.

My agenda is the truth. Homosexuals are filthy disgusting creatures who should not be adopting children or allowed in a classroom. Christophobic hateful bigot.

- you are making Christianity look wonderful.

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Hateful Christophobic bigot.

 

[guno]

The Christians who support gay marriages are not true Christians. You have to be ashamed. Just because of people like you so many Americans turned away from Christianity.

Just so we're clear, not only have you set yourself up as a fair arbiter of who is and isn't Christian, but you also have a battery of links ready to post demonstrating that people are waxing in antipathy toward Christianity because it's becoming more accepting of homosexuals.....which I'm sure your next post will include.

The problem with the Christian Church at least in America is that Protestantism has taught you to see the Bible as a legal document that holds every religious concept prisoner to a narrow interpretation of eclectically chosen scriptures. You aren't pursuing the heart of God, nor his passion to reach sinners, nor his teachings that we build bridges and reach out to everyone, including homosexuals, for Christ. Instead you quote Leviticus and build walls, outside of which you fling fiery arrows, making enemies out of the very people Jesus told you to reach.

So Jesus is looking for other vessels, anyone who will build those bridges and become the face of Christ to those he wants to reach.

Does the Bible condemn homosexuality or not? It's a yes or no answer

The Tanakh does not. It condemns two very specific homosexual acts.

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What the stupid goyim don't realize is that the Tanakh has nothing to do with them or about them