The Rapture

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The Rapture and Second Coming are different events separated by a gap in time. Both pre-tribbers and post-tribbers wrongly look for the rapture in Matthew 24. It's not there.

POST-Tribulation rapture is not in Matthew 24:29-31.

"But immediately after the tribulation…the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky…and He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other." (Matt. 24:29-31).

Although this event is SIMILAR to the rapture, this is not the rapture or a resurrection. Remember, the rapture is a resurrection (see 1 Thess. 4:15-17, 1 Cor. 15:51-52). After Jesus was resurrected, He didn't need the angels to help ascend Him into the sky (Acts 1:9-11). In His resurrected body Jesus was able to appear in the room with His disciples even though the doors were shut (John 20:26). When we receive our resurrected bodies at the rapture, we will have a body like Jesus (1 John 3:2). We will also have the same capabilities as the angels. "For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are like the angels." (Matt. 22:30).

Why would Jesus send forth angels to gather people who are in powerful resurrection bodies? Why would angels need to gather people who have the same capabilities? The answer is these believers are in non-resurrected bodies. These are people saved after the rapture, who will populate the millennium. Jesus doesn't send forth the angels at the rapture because we won't need angels to gather us together.

At the Second Coming, the angels will also be sent forth to gather the wicked (Matt. 13:41-42). These non-Christians are also in non-resurrected bodies and will need the angels to gather them together for judgment. The resurrection of the lost will not occur until the end of the millennium (Rev. 20:7, 11-15).

PRE-Tribulation rapture is not in Matthew 24:40-41.

"Then there shall be two men in the field; one will be taken, and one will be left. Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken, and one will be left." (Matt 24:40-41).

Many pre-tribbers mistakenly think this verse is proof of the rapture. However, the ones "taken" in these verses are lost people-those who are not Christians. In the preceding verses, those taken away in Noah's flood were lost people. "They did not understand until the flood came and took them all away" (v.39). In the parallel passage (Luke 17:34-37), the disciples asked where they would be taken. Jesus replied, "Where the body is, there also will the vultures be gathered." These are unbelievers, not Christians.

The rapture is not found in Matthew 24. Nor is it found in Revelation 19 or Zechariah 14, the other chapters describing the Second Coming. The rapture will come at a time only known by God, but it won't be at the Second Coming.

Rapture Not in Matthew 24

 

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Seven Reasons
Why the Rapture Cannot Come
After the Tribulation

The best thing my mother did for me, as a boy, was teach me Bible verses. But she also tried to get me to eat peas. I hated peas. Still do. My mother often said, "Try these, Allen. These peas are different." But somehow they never were.

Well, now that I'm an adult, I get to say, "These arguments are different." Instead of proving that the rapture comes before the tribulation, these arguments prove that the rapture cannot come after the tribulation. Instead of going in the front door, I'm coming through the back door.

Try these arguments. They're different.

1. The known day and the unknown day cannot be the same day.

"But of that day and hour knows no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only" (Matthew 24:36). "In such an hour as you think not the Son of man comes" (Matthew 24:44).

In contrast to the unknown day, we also read about a known day. The 1260 days (Revelation 12:6) coincides with the 42 months (Revelation 13:5) or three and one-half years (Revelation 12:14). Unlike schemes of today that pretend to predict the time of the trumpet sound, this future timetable has a clear starting point, a clear duration, and a clear ending point. It begins at the abomination of desolation (Matthew 24:15–16), and it ends at the return of Christ (Revelation 19:20).

The known day and the unknown day must be different days. The rapture cannot occur on the known day.

Some try to dull the sharp point of the known day by saying the time is shortened (Matthew 24:22, Mark 13:20). In other words, the 1260 days will turn out to be less than 1260 days. But the "shortened days" has at least two other interpretations that do not contradict other Scriptures. Why pick the one interpretation that contradicts several other Scripture passages? No, the 1260 days will turn out to be 1260 days, exactly as prophesied.

You may ask, doesn't a close look at the context reveal that the unknown day appears in a context after the tribulation? Doesn't Matthew 24:29 say, "after the tribulation"? Yes, you are right. But a closer look at the context reveals a double reference. And this double reference reinforces the idea of two different days.

2. At the end of the age the unbelievers are taken first.

"In the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather together first the tares.... the harvest is the end of the world.... As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity.... So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just." (selections from Matthew 13)

Separate the wheat from the tares? No. Separate the tares from the wheat? Yes. The order of gatherings at this time is opposite to the rapture.

3. Those taken on that day end up as corpses for vultures to feed on.

"I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And He said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, there will the eagles be gathered together" (Luke 17:34–37).

"Eagles" is better translated "vultures." "Body" means "corpse" according to the parallel passage Matthew 24:28. Those taken on that day end up as corpses for vultures to feed on. This cannot be the rapture.

You may answer that the birds of prey gather around those left rather than around those taken. Consider two points. First, Revelation 19:17 shows that the birds of prey gather to a certain spot rather than being scattered to find whoever is left. Jesus' answer here in Luke 17 also speaks of such a gathering.

Second, when the disciples asked "Where?" it naturally implies "Where are they taken?" We already know where they are left. That's obvious. We know where the bed is, where the mill is, where the field is. That's where they are left. So the disciples wanted to know where they are taken. The only time the other meaning makes sense is when you ask, "Where did I leave my glasses?" But in this context where people are snatched away from various places, the natural question is "Where are they taken?"

It is those taken who end up as corpses for vultures to feed on. This is the opposite of the rapture.

4. If all unbelievers are destroyed, then who will populate the millennium?

"[Noah] entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. ... the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed" (Luke 17:27–30).

"The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity" (Matthew 13:41).

"For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape [strong dual negative in the Greek]" (1 Thessalonians 5:3).

"When the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ ... That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness" (2 Thessalonians 1:7b–8; 2:12).

"For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch" (Malachi 4:1).

Present-day believers will be in the millennium, of course, but as rulers, not as subjects. We'll have glorified bodies, not decaying bodies. Who will we rule over? Who are the subjects with natural bodies, who bear children, who are subject to sin and death, and who finally rebel after the 1000 years are over? (Isaiah 65:20, Revelation 20:7–9)

According to the several Scriptures quoted above, only believers enter the millennium. These believers have children, and apparently some of these children do not become believers.

Where do the original believers come from? They aren't raptured believers. They must be after-the-rapture believers. If the rapture were at the end of the tribulation, then there would be no believers left with natural bodies. Therefore, the rapture cannot come at the end of the tribulation. Believers who populate the millennium are those saved after the rapture and who survive the tribulation period. By the way, those killed during the tribulation are resurrected before the millennium; so they will have glorified bodies for the 1000 years.

Some argue that Israel gets saved as Christ returns, just moments after the rapture, but just in time to get saved and avoid destruction. That's pretty close timing. Impossible timing, in fact. According to the Bible, Israel does get saved at the end, but it's just before the end. (Hosea 5:15, Matthew 23:39)

But beyond Israel, the Bible also teaches that many nations will populate the millennium. (Zechariah 14:16–19, Revelation 20:8) How do they get there?

A rapture at this time just doesn't fit.

5. Revelation 3:10 clearly says, "I will keep you from the hour."

"Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from [out] the hour of temptation [testing], which shall come upon all the world, to try [test] them that dwell upon the earth" (Revelation 3:10).

What could be clearer than that? It doesn't say "take out." No, "take out" and "keep out" have entirely different meanings. It doesn't say "keep in." No, "keep in" and "keep out" have entirely different meanings. It doesn't say "keep in and take out." No, it takes twice as many words to express those two distinct ideas. God chose this simple word combination to communicate as clearly as possible.

Some say this means believers are protected during testing instead of from testing. But I answer, protected from what? Believers during that time are killed, not kept. (Revelation 6:9, 13:7) Some may respond, they are protected from God's wrath, not Satan's wrath. But I answer, look at the verse again. It doesn't talk about God's wrath. It talks about testing. Testing precedes wrath. The outcome of testing is wrath or reward, as the case may be. Saints at that time are tested. Even post-trib theologians warn us to prepare ourselves spiritually for that testing. They are the same ones who teach us (and correctly so) that God's wrath focuses at the end of the tribulation, leaving us with the question, "Protected from what?"

Let's think deeper. The reason for the promise illuminates the purpose of the promise. The reason ("because you have already demonstrated patience in testing") prompts the purpose ("I will keep you from further testing"). Is God saying, "Since you have shown patience, I will now give you a bigger test?" No, He is saying, "You have already passed the test. Congratulations!" You have shown patience, haven't you? You have leaned on God's Word during testing, haven't you? Then this promise is for you.

Answering the objections is easy enough, because the verse is clear, but what really drives me crazy are those who throw up their hands and say that we can't know the meaning. Have you ever read something like, "If the theologians disagree on this, then you and I can't possibly know the meaning"? That effectively takes the Book out of your hands. How dare you read the Book for yourself! How dare you claim to interpret it for yourself!

No, rather than take the Book out of your hands, I want to put it back into your hands. God says Revelation is unsealed. (Revelation 22:10) How dare I seal it back up again. Yes, Revelation has many symbols. Some symbols are explained within the book, some are explained in the Old Testament, and some are left unexplained. But in Revelation 3:10 we don't even have symbols to worry about. It is a clear statement in an unsealed book.

6. By Revelation 19, the wife is already ready.

"Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honor to Him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and His wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness [literally righteousnesses, plural] of the saints. And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called [invited] unto the marriage supper of the Lamb" (Revelation 19:7–9b).

How do we know she is ready? Well, just look at her. She's arrayed in fine linen. What is she ready for? The marriage supper. The invitations are about to go out.

According to some, the marriage supper is over by this time. But for a marriage supper to be complete, you need the bridegroom, bride, and guests. The supper waits not only for the bride to get ready, but also for the guests to be invited.

But that's beside the point. The point is that the wife is ready by Revelation 19 before Christ descends to earth. The wife is the church. (2 Corinthians 11:2, Ephesians 5:31–32) For the wife to be ready, she must be in heaven. Fine linen awaits heaven. Her wedding gown is complete. She is ready.

You may ask me, isn't the wife ready long before Revelation 19? I think so. Then why isn't she mentioned until now? For the sake of contrast. The wife in 19:7 contrasts the harlot in verse 19:2. The fine linen, clean and white, in 19:8 contrasts the purple and scarlot in 17:4. The marriage supper in 19:9 contrasts the supper of the great God in 19:17. So it fits the narrative here.

The marriage process in the days when Revelation was written consisted of three parts, the engagement, the processional, and the feast. When Luke 12:36 says, "return from the wedding," it speaks about the return from the wedding processional. (The Greek and the KJV simply say "wedding," not "wedding feast.") Luke 12:36 backs up Revelation 19. A return from the wedding implies a return before the wedding.

7. By Revelation 4, the crowns are already awarded.

"And round about the throne were four and twenty seats [thrones]: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads [victory] crowns of gold" (Revelation 4:4).

Who are the elders? Some may think that the elders are angels. But God doesn't award victory crowns to angels. These crowns are reserved for sinners who overcome by faith. You can say the elders are the church, or Israel, or a combination of both, or the New York Yankees, minus one player. I don't care. But definitely human.

Crowns come when Christ comes. (2 Timothy 4:8, 1 Peter 5:4, Revelation 22:12)

Therefore, Christ must have come prior to Revelation 4:4, but after Revelation 3 when the church is still on earth. Somewhere in between there.

Seven Reasons Why the Rapture Cannot Come After the Tribulation

 

[theword]

Seven Reasons
Why the Rapture Cannot Come
After the Tribulation

The best thing my mother did for me, as a boy, was teach me Bible verses. But she also tried to get me to eat peas. I hated peas. Still do. My mother often said, "Try these, Allen. These peas are different." But somehow they never were.

Well, now that I'm an adult, I get to say, "These arguments are different." Instead of proving that the rapture comes before the tribulation, these arguments prove that the rapture cannot come after the tribulation. Instead of going in the front door, I'm coming through the back door.

Try these arguments. They're different.

1. The known day and the unknown day cannot be the same day.

"But of that day and hour knows no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only" (Matthew 24:36). "In such an hour as you think not the Son of man comes" (Matthew 24:44).

In contrast to the unknown day, we also read about a known day. The 1260 days (Revelation 12:6) coincides with the 42 months (Revelation 13:5) or three and one-half years (Revelation 12:14). Unlike schemes of today that pretend to predict the time of the trumpet sound, this future timetable has a clear starting point, a clear duration, and a clear ending point. It begins at the abomination of desolation (Matthew 24:15–16), and it ends at the return of Christ (Revelation 19:20).

The known day and the unknown day must be different days. The rapture cannot occur on the known day.

Some try to dull the sharp point of the known day by saying the time is shortened (Matthew 24:22, Mark 13:20). In other words, the 1260 days will turn out to be less than 1260 days. But the "shortened days" has at least two other interpretations that do not contradict other Scriptures. Why pick the one interpretation that contradicts several other Scripture passages? No, the 1260 days will turn out to be 1260 days, exactly as prophesied.

You may ask, doesn't a close look at the context reveal that the unknown day appears in a context after the tribulation? Doesn't Matthew 24:29 say, "after the tribulation"? Yes, you are right. But a closer look at the context reveals a double reference. And this double reference reinforces the idea of two different days.

2. At the end of the age the unbelievers are taken first.

"In the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather together first the tares.... the harvest is the end of the world.... As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity.... So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just." (selections from Matthew 13)

Separate the wheat from the tares? No. Separate the tares from the wheat? Yes. The order of gatherings at this time is opposite to the rapture.

3. Those taken on that day end up as corpses for vultures to feed on.

"I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And He said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, there will the eagles be gathered together" (Luke 17:34–37).

"Eagles" is better translated "vultures." "Body" means "corpse" according to the parallel passage Matthew 24:28. Those taken on that day end up as corpses for vultures to feed on. This cannot be the rapture.

You may answer that the birds of prey gather around those left rather than around those taken. Consider two points. First, Revelation 19:17 shows that the birds of prey gather to a certain spot rather than being scattered to find whoever is left. Jesus' answer here in Luke 17 also speaks of such a gathering.

Second, when the disciples asked "Where?" it naturally implies "Where are they taken?" We already know where they are left. That's obvious. We know where the bed is, where the mill is, where the field is. That's where they are left. So the disciples wanted to know where they are taken. The only time the other meaning makes sense is when you ask, "Where did I leave my glasses?" But in this context where people are snatched away from various places, the natural question is "Where are they taken?"

It is those taken who end up as corpses for vultures to feed on. This is the opposite of the rapture.

4. If all unbelievers are destroyed, then who will populate the millennium?

"[Noah] entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. ... the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed" (Luke 17:27–30).

"The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity" (Matthew 13:41).

"For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape [strong dual negative in the Greek]" (1 Thessalonians 5:3).

"When the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ ... That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness" (2 Thessalonians 1:7b–8; 2:12).

"For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch" (Malachi 4:1).

Present-day believers will be in the millennium, of course, but as rulers, not as subjects. We'll have glorified bodies, not decaying bodies. Who will we rule over? Who are the subjects with natural bodies, who bear children, who are subject to sin and death, and who finally rebel after the 1000 years are over? (Isaiah 65:20, Revelation 20:7–9)

According to the several Scriptures quoted above, only believers enter the millennium. These believers have children, and apparently some of these children do not become believers.

Where do the original believers come from? They aren't raptured believers. They must be after-the-rapture believers. If the rapture were at the end of the tribulation, then there would be no believers left with natural bodies. Therefore, the rapture cannot come at the end of the tribulation. Believers who populate the millennium are those saved after the rapture and who survive the tribulation period. By the way, those killed during the tribulation are resurrected before the millennium; so they will have glorified bodies for the 1000 years.

Some argue that Israel gets saved as Christ returns, just moments after the rapture, but just in time to get saved and avoid destruction. That's pretty close timing. Impossible timing, in fact. According to the Bible, Israel does get saved at the end, but it's just before the end. (Hosea 5:15, Matthew 23:39)

But beyond Israel, the Bible also teaches that many nations will populate the millennium. (Zechariah 14:16–19, Revelation 20:8) How do they get there?

A rapture at this time just doesn't fit.

5. Revelation 3:10 clearly says, "I will keep you from the hour."

"Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from [out] the hour of temptation [testing], which shall come upon all the world, to try [test] them that dwell upon the earth" (Revelation 3:10).

What could be clearer than that? It doesn't say "take out." No, "take out" and "keep out" have entirely different meanings. It doesn't say "keep in." No, "keep in" and "keep out" have entirely different meanings. It doesn't say "keep in and take out." No, it takes twice as many words to express those two distinct ideas. God chose this simple word combination to communicate as clearly as possible.

Some say this means believers are protected during testing instead of from testing. But I answer, protected from what? Believers during that time are killed, not kept. (Revelation 6:9, 13:7) Some may respond, they are protected from God's wrath, not Satan's wrath. But I answer, look at the verse again. It doesn't talk about God's wrath. It talks about testing. Testing precedes wrath. The outcome of testing is wrath or reward, as the case may be. Saints at that time are tested. Even post-trib theologians warn us to prepare ourselves spiritually for that testing. They are the same ones who teach us (and correctly so) that God's wrath focuses at the end of the tribulation, leaving us with the question, "Protected from what?"

Let's think deeper. The reason for the promise illuminates the purpose of the promise. The reason ("because you have already demonstrated patience in testing") prompts the purpose ("I will keep you from further testing"). Is God saying, "Since you have shown patience, I will now give you a bigger test?" No, He is saying, "You have already passed the test. Congratulations!" You have shown patience, haven't you? You have leaned on God's Word during testing, haven't you? Then this promise is for you.

Answering the objections is easy enough, because the verse is clear, but what really drives me crazy are those who throw up their hands and say that we can't know the meaning. Have you ever read something like, "If the theologians disagree on this, then you and I can't possibly know the meaning"? That effectively takes the Book out of your hands. How dare you read the Book for yourself! How dare you claim to interpret it for yourself!

No, rather than take the Book out of your hands, I want to put it back into your hands. God says Revelation is unsealed. (Revelation 22:10) How dare I seal it back up again. Yes, Revelation has many symbols. Some symbols are explained within the book, some are explained in the Old Testament, and some are left unexplained. But in Revelation 3:10 we don't even have symbols to worry about. It is a clear statement in an unsealed book.

6. By Revelation 19, the wife is already ready.

"Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honor to Him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and His wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness [literally righteousnesses, plural] of the saints. And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called [invited] unto the marriage supper of the Lamb" (Revelation 19:7–9b).

How do we know she is ready? Well, just look at her. She's arrayed in fine linen. What is she ready for? The marriage supper. The invitations are about to go out.

According to some, the marriage supper is over by this time. But for a marriage supper to be complete, you need the bridegroom, bride, and guests. The supper waits not only for the bride to get ready, but also for the guests to be invited.

But that's beside the point. The point is that the wife is ready by Revelation 19 before Christ descends to earth. The wife is the church. (2 Corinthians 11:2, Ephesians 5:31–32) For the wife to be ready, she must be in heaven. Fine linen awaits heaven. Her wedding gown is complete. She is ready.

You may ask me, isn't the wife ready long before Revelation 19? I think so. Then why isn't she mentioned until now? For the sake of contrast. The wife in 19:7 contrasts the harlot in verse 19:2. The fine linen, clean and white, in 19:8 contrasts the purple and scarlot in 17:4. The marriage supper in 19:9 contrasts the supper of the great God in 19:17. So it fits the narrative here.

The marriage process in the days when Revelation was written consisted of three parts, the engagement, the processional, and the feast. When Luke 12:36 says, "return from the wedding," it speaks about the return from the wedding processional. (The Greek and the KJV simply say "wedding," not "wedding feast.") Luke 12:36 backs up Revelation 19. A return from the wedding implies a return before the wedding.

7. By Revelation 4, the crowns are already awarded.

"And round about the throne were four and twenty seats [thrones]: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads [victory] crowns of gold" (Revelation 4:4).

Who are the elders? Some may think that the elders are angels. But God doesn't award victory crowns to angels. These crowns are reserved for sinners who overcome by faith. You can say the elders are the church, or Israel, or a combination of both, or the New York Yankees, minus one player. I don't care. But definitely human.

Crowns come when Christ comes. (2 Timothy 4:8, 1 Peter 5:4, Revelation 22:12)

Therefore, Christ must have come prior to Revelation 4:4, but after Revelation 3 when the church is still on earth. Somewhere in between there.

Seven Reasons Why the Rapture Cannot Come After the Tribulation

Psalm 92
5: How great are thy works, O LORD! Thy thoughts are very deep!
6: The dull man cannot know, the stupid cannot understand this:

All God's sinners are stupid and this post came from a very stupid sinner.

 

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All God's sinners are stupid and this post came from a very stupid sinner.

Is this necessary? You are showing your true Christian nature.

 

[Toro]

You two sound like good Christians who will be taken to heaven during The Rapture.

Unfortunately, I am a sinner and will not be joining you. However, I would like to atone for my sins and am willing to help you. I am willing to sell you Rapture Insurance.

For $500 a year, I am willing to insure that your pets are taken care of after The Rapture occurs.

That's a great deal.

 

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I am agnostic, today.

 

[BreezeWood]

So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just."

... and sever the wicked from among the just."


obviously your book hasn't a clue - the End will be either the Triumph of Good or the Triumph of Evil, in either case only one group will be remaining with non of the others to be take away.



the Tragedy of the Bible is that it does not express the former, The Triumph of Good and eroneously predicts the Triumph of Evil - that for which no one will return.

.

 

[theword]

All God's sinners are stupid and this post came from a very stupid sinner.

Is this necessary? You are showing your true Christian nature.

I'm not a Christian. I'm God's invisible servant who knows all things and how stupid God's people are.

Jeremiah 10
10: But the LORD is the true God; he is the living God and the everlasting King. At his wrath the earth quakes, and the nations cannot endure his indignation.
11: Thus shall you say to them: "The gods who did not make the heavens and the earth shall perish from the earth and from under the heavens."
12: It is he who made the earth by his power, who established the world by his wisdom, and by his understanding stretched out the heavens.
13: When he utters his voice there is a tumult of waters in the heavens, and he makes the mist rise from the ends of the earth. He makes lightnings for the rain, and he brings forth the wind from his storehouses.
14: Every man is stupid and without knowledge; every goldsmith is put to shame by his idols; for his images are false, and there is no breath in them.
15: They are worthless, a work of delusion; at the time of their punishment they shall perish.
16: Not like these is he who is the portion of Jacob, for he is the one who formed all things, and Israel is the tribe of his inheritance; the LORD of hosts is his name.

 

[theword]

So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just."

... and sever the wicked from among the just."


obviously your book hasn't a clue - the End will be either the Triumph of Good or the Triumph of Evil, in either case only one group will be remaining with non of the others to be take away.



the Tragedy of the Bible is that it does not express the former, The Triumph of Good and eroneously predicts the Triumph of Evil - that for which no one will return.

.

This world isn't about being triumphant. It's about God connecting with His servant in the flesh of prophets and saints to let us know who we are in Him and what His eternal plan for us is all about.

The "tree of the knowledge of good and evil" is God's delusional thoughts that are stored in the flesh of man to confuse him of the Truth during this first age. After all flesh has perished in this age, created man will get new flesh that will never be used to deceive him again.

 

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“We now know that, if [Jesus] began ascending two thousand years ago, he would not yet have left the Milky Way (unless he attained warp speed)”. (Keith Ward discussing the literal ascension)

***

Jesus expected the arrival of the kingdom of God in the lifetime of his hearers (see Mark 9:1), and the earliest Christians shared that expectation. When it did not materialize as anticipated, they found a variety of ways of making sense of that. But today, quoting 2 Peter 3:8, which is itself part of a non-authentic letter attributed to Peter and is trying to address the disappointment of Christians that these expectations were not fulfilled, is simply to perpetuate the problem and not address it directly.

It isn’t just the timing that is the issue. The idea of a second coming with Jesus appearing in the sky is based on a view of the universe, which heaven literally “up there,” that is also hard if not impossible for anyone to accept today without serious cognitive dissonance.

Discussing the literal ascension Luke describes in Acts, Keith Ward writes in his book The Big Questions in Science and Religion (p.107): “We now know that, if [Jesus] began ascending two thousand years ago, he would not yet have left the Milky Way (unless he attained warp speed)”.

A time eventually comes when, instead of clinging to older beliefs, no matter how central they may have been historically, it is time to rethink them, and perhaps even set them aside in some cases.

Why There Will Be No Rapture

 

[Chuckt]

A time eventually comes when, instead of clinging to older beliefs, no matter how central they may have been historically, it is time to rethink them, and perhaps even set them aside in some cases.

Why There Will Be No Rapture

Both the post and the article are devoid of reason.

Matthew 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
Matthew 25:11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
Matthew 25:12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

There is a coming judgment which is the 70th week of Daniel and it is a time of deception so we have to be taken out just like Noah and his family was taken out and just like Lot and his family was taken out because God isn't going to judge the righteous with the wicked.

Romans 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

Luke 4:5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.
Luke 4:6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.
Luke 4:7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.
Luke 4:8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Did Jesus argue with Satan and say that Satan "can't"? Did we here the argument: "Can..Can't. Can. Can't. Can Can't"? No.

There is a set time which is called the end of the age.

Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world (g165 αἰών aiōn ). Amen.

World is "age". It is the end of an "age" or the end of the age of the gentiles.

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon

Satan is the god of this world ( or age) :


2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Next time know what you are talking about and have some context.

Why do you think we were called the children of wrath?

 

[pacer]

Can you not discuss these things in your own words rather than flood your posts with Biblical references? There are many different theories on the rapture. Please discuss in your own words.

As the above article suggests, Jesus expected the arrival of the kingdom of God in the lifetime of his hearers (see Mark 9:1) (NOT 2,000+ YEARS LATER), and the earliest Christians shared that expectation. It did not materialize. And don't be expecting it to materialize today.

As the author so eloquently stated, "it is time to rethink them [older beliefs], and perhaps even set them aside in some cases."

 

[daws101]

Predictions[edit source | editbeta]
Some notable predictions of the date of the rapture include the following:
1844: William Miller predicted that Christ would return between March 21, 1843 and March 21, 1844, then revised his prediction, claiming to have miscalculated Scripture, to October 22, 1844. The realization that the predictions were incorrect resulted in a Great Disappointment. Miller's theology gave rise to the Advent movement. The Baha'is believe that Christ did return as Miller predicted in 1844, with the advent of the Báb, and numerous Miller-like prophetic predictions from many religions are given in William Sears' book, Thief in The Night.[66]
1914,[67] 1918,[68] and 1925:[69] Various dates predicted for the rapture by the Jehovah's Witnesses.
1981: Chuck Smith predicted that Jesus would probably return by 1981.[70]
1988: Publication of 88 Reasons Why the Rapture Is in 1988, by Edgar C. Whisenant.
1989: Publication of The Final Shout: Rapture Report 1989, by Edgar Whisenant. This author made further predictions of the rapture for 1992, 1995, and other years.
1992: A Korean group, the Mission for the Coming Days, predicted that the rapture would occur on October 28, 1992.[71]
1993: Multiple predictions were given for 1993, seven years before the year 2000; the rapture would have to start to allow for seven years of the tribulation before the return in 2000.
1994: Pastor John Hinkle of Christ Church in Los Angeles predicted that the rapture would occur on June 9, 1994. Radio evangelist Harold Camping predicted September 6, 1994.[72]
2011: Harold Camping's revised prediction had May 21, 2011 as the date of the rapture.[73][74] After this prediction proved inaccurate, he claimed that a non-visible "spiritual judgement" had taken place, and that the physical rapture would occur on October 21, 2011. The physical rapture prediction also proved inaccurate.[75]

this thread is a nontroversy about a non event!

 

[Chuckt]

Can you not discuss these things in your own words rather than flood your posts with Biblical references? There are many different theories on the rapture. Please discuss in your own words.

As the above article suggests, Jesus expected the arrival of the kingdom of God in the lifetime of his hearers (see Mark 9:1) (NOT 2,000+ YEARS LATER), and the earliest Christians shared that expectation. It did not materialize. And don't be expecting it to materialize today.

That is an interpretation, Pacer. There is a difference between interpretation and what the Bible says literally.

Another rule of Bible interpretation is that scripture interprets scripture.
When you see a verse that says no one knows the day or the hour and a verse says it isn't for you to know the times and the seasons; then you don't know (Acts 1:7). Everyone keeps trying to guess it but the Bible says its none of your business.

We'll be arguing this again because no one will listen or obey the teaching of Acts 1:7.

 

[pacer]

Please discuss the subject in your own words. I would rather read what you have to say.

 

[Chuckt]

Please discuss the subject in your own words. I would rather read what you have to say.

Practice what you preach. Stop spamming the forums with other people's articles. And then have a mind that can defend against scripture.

 

[pacer]

I post articles to this board and then discuss the contents in my own words. You post articles and then proceed to quote the articles and inundate the board with Bible references.

 

[Chuckt]

I post articles to this board and then discuss the contents in my own words. You post articles and then proceed to quote the articles and inundate the board with Bible references.

It cuts down on making mistakes, keeps me on topic and it is the way to do things. It is the religion forum which should mean it is allowed.

It is the way I communicate and if I was to post a Bible study which should be allowed and I don't know why I wouldn't be allowed, I would post Bible verses, references, etc., because that is the preferred method of teaching, expounding, explaining, etc.

 

[The Irish Ram]

“We now know that, if [Jesus] began ascending two thousand years ago, he would not yet have left the Milky Way (unless he attained warp speed)”. (Keith Ward discussing the literal ascension)

***

Jesus expected the arrival of the kingdom of God in the lifetime of his hearers (see Mark 9:1), and the earliest Christians shared that expectation. When it did not materialize as anticipated, they found a variety of ways of making sense of that. But today, quoting 2 Peter 3:8, which is itself part of a non-authentic letter attributed to Peter and is trying to address the disappointment of Christians that these expectations were not fulfilled, is simply to perpetuate the problem and not address it directly.

It isn’t just the timing that is the issue. The idea of a second coming with Jesus appearing in the sky is based on a view of the universe, which heaven literally “up there,” that is also hard if not impossible for anyone to accept today without serious cognitive dissonance.

Discussing the literal ascension Luke describes in Acts, Keith Ward writes in his book The Big Questions in Science and Religion (p.107): “We now know that, if [Jesus] began ascending two thousand years ago, he would not yet have left the Milky Way (unless he attained warp speed)”.

A time eventually comes when, instead of clinging to older beliefs, no matter how central they may have been historically, it is time to rethink them, and perhaps even set them aside in some cases.

Why There Will Be No Rapture

Well, you can either set beliefs aside due to a lack of mental prowess, or verify them through science and gain understanding.
The dimensions that we are just now smart enough to find, were used by Christ 2,000 years ago, and by God before that. No warp speed necessary. 11/100th of a second is all it takes to travel from one dimension to the next.

BTW, Why dumb yourself down to warp speed (a fictional unit of measure), when you have the factual speed of light at your disposal?

 

[pacer]

I post articles to this board and then discuss the contents in my own words. You post articles and then proceed to quote the articles and inundate the board with Bible references.

It cuts down on making mistakes, keeps me on topic and it is the way to do things. It is the religion forum which should mean it is allowed.

It is the way I communicate and if I was to post a Bible study which should be allowed and I don't know why I wouldn't be allowed, I would post Bible verses, references, etc., because that is the preferred method of teaching, expounding, explaining, etc.

But we are not your students, here. This is a discussion board. We exchange ideas and opinions. If we have to sift through a ton of biblical references no one will read, it is very frustrating.