Zone1 The REAL REPARATIONS story that is rarely told, for obvious reasons.

[IM2]

Bless your heart.

The thing is, that I am right.

 

[IM2]

That is what separates modern American conservatives from progressives.

Achieving equality to conservatives means preventing people from taking unfair advantage of each other and giving all people opportunity to compete and be the best that they can be. Those choosing that concept will almost always progress far more than those who do not.

Achieving equality to progressives means taking from those who earned it and giving it to those who did not and arbitrarily separating people into victims and oppressors by advantaging the 'victims' and punishing the 'oppressors.' Those who choose that concept are disadvantaged from the beginning.

The government in the 19th Century did what it reasonably could to give freed slaves the chance to help themselves and most did. Most continued to do so despite segregation in the first half of the 20th Century. That is how Walter E. Williams and Thomas Sowell, born and raised in segregation, were able to get first rate prestigious educations and went on to be powerful influences in the world. You never read Williams? I strongly recommend that everybody does. Start here with one of my favorite Williams' syndicated columns that I have pretty much committed to memory:

Economic Miracle

The idea that even the brightest person or group of bright people, much less the U.S. Congress, can wisely manage an economy has to be the height of arrogance and conceit. Why? It is impossible for anyone to possess the knowledge that would be necessary for such an undertaking. At the risk of...

walterewilliams.com

And on reparations, you'll have a very hard task to refute what he and Thomas Sowell have spent a lifetime researching:

Reparations for Slavery

Several Democratic presidential hopefuls are calling for Americans to make reparations for slavery. On June 19, the House judiciary subcommittee on the constitution, civil rights and civil liberties held a hearing. Its stated purpose was “to examine, through open and constructive discourse, the...

walterewilliams.com

Walter Williams: If We're Doing Reparations, Should African Nations Pay for Selling Innocent Black People?

'There is no way that Europeans could have captured millions of Africans. They had African and Arab help.'

www.westernjournal.com

Slavery Reparations, by Walter E.Williams

Calls for slavery reparations have returned with the publication of Ta-Nehisi Coates'

www.creators.com

Or Thomas Sowell noting: “The number of whites who were enslaved in North Africa by the Barbary pirates exceeded the number of Africans enslaved in the United States and in the American colonies …"

Dismantling the Jim Crow laws removed the last of the barriers to black people to be able to compete equally with whites and a few years of affirmative action broke down the last of the institutional barriers. That was almost 60 years ago and the huge majority of black people now never experienced them in their working years.

There will always be isolated cases of unfairness due to people's experience and/or perceptions, but any barriers to success now are not inherited or cultural but are artificially imposed by people who, for their own purposes or however well meaning, demand that black people act, speak, behave, think as 'black' and appreciate that their government is saving them.

More bs.

For example, the Barbary Pirates were white. And lets go further.

"Or Thomas Sowell noting: “The number of whites who were enslaved in North Africa by the Barbary pirates exceeded the number of Africans enslaved in the United States and in the American colonies …"

In his quest to hold on to most favorite Negro status, Sowells assessment, as with most of his trash, is incomplete. He is an economist and he should have stuck with that field of study.

“During the fifty-three years from the prohibition of the African slave trade by federal law in 1808 to the debacle of the Confederate States of America in 1861, the Southern economy depended on the functioning of a slave-breeding industry, of which Virginia was the number-one supplier.”

Ned & Constance Sublette, The American Slave Coast: A History of the Slave-Breeding Industry, Chicago, Lawrence Hill Books, 2016

If America had continued to import slaves, it would have diluted the market, thereby driving down the price of slaves. Slave sellers could not have this. So instead of the truth, we are told that “our nearer to God than thee” founders, in all their benevolent glory, looked towards a future whereby slavery would be no more. According to some, the so-called founders had a dream whereby little black boys and little black girls would no longer be enslaved because of the color of their skin. This is the story we are supposed to believe. However, reality does not show that.

“In fact, most American slaves were not kidnapped on another continent. Though over 12.7 million Africans were forced onto ships to the Western hemisphere, estimates only have 400,000-500,000 landing in present-day America. How then to account for the four million black slaves who were tilling fields in 1860? “The South,” the Sublettes write, “did not only produce tobacco, rice, sugar, and cotton as commodities for sale; it produced people.” Slavers called slave-breeding “natural increase,” but there was nothing natural about producing slaves; it took scientific management. Thomas Jefferson bragged to George Washington that the birth of black children was increasing Virginia’s capital stock by four percent annually.”

Ned & Constance Sublette, The American Slave Coast: A History of the Slave-Breeding Industry, Chicago, Lawrence Hill Books, 2016

“According to database-backed estimates by David Eltis and David Richardson, only about 389,000 kidnapped Africans were disembarked in the ports of the present-day United States, the majority of them before independence.” “By 1860, those few hundred thousand Africans had given way to four million African Americans.”

Ned & Constance Sublette, The American Slave Coast: A History of the Slave -Breeding Industry

According to this information , 389,000 slaves landed on the shores of what is now America. By 1860, there were four million slaves living here. The importation of slaves was made illegal in 1808. So from 1808 until 1860, the number of slaves increased by at least one thousand percent. If we allow for the Africans selling each other, Africans would be responsible for approximately 389 thousand slaves. What about the 3.1-4 million additional slaves? Africans did not create them.

The white controlled slave breeding "industry" IN AMERICA created 10 times more blacks than the number that came from Africans who "sold other Africans".

And at least 3 times more than whatever whites were enslaved by the Barbary Pirates.

 

[westwall]

1. Your ancestors never made it right.
2. The effects of what happened is still felt to this day by black people.
The ironic part is if folks who suffered and are still alive is the criteria, we Natives deserve reparations. Personally, I don’t want that. I want my people to have the freedom to be who we are. You white folks demand we respect your culture but refuse to respect our culture or the culture of black people. Unacceptable.

My question to you is why are you white people so opposed to it?

Then why are millions desperate to get here?

Tell you what, you ungrateful lots can move to the country of your choice.

I will happily trade you clods for those who WANT to be here to enjoy the benefits of living a country that rewards effort.

 

[MizMolly]

1. Your ancestors never made it right.
2. The effects of what happened is still felt to this day by black people.
The ironic part is if folks who suffered and are still alive is the criteria, we Natives deserve reparations. Personally, I don’t want that. I want my people to have the freedom to be who we are. You white folks demand we respect your culture but refuse to respect our culture or the culture of black people. Unacceptable.

My question to you is why are you white people so opposed to it?

What culture are whites not accepting? Reparations is not a culture. My ancestors were never here so there is nothing to make right, very few whites even had slaves. Blacks want reparations going back to slavery, people today are not still affected by it, since they had no part in it. I am opposed because black people did not earn the money. Some want every black person in this country given reparations, even those not affected by Jim Crow. Who demands anyone respect “white culture”? Exactly what is white culture? Very few people who were affected by Jim Crow are still alive.

 

[Hellbilly]

What culture are whites not accepting?

Black culture. Indigenous culture. Gay culture. Trans culture. Any culture that is not white heterosexual. We all have to conform to your culture. If I took a job as a salesman and showed up wearing my traditional Native clothes, I would be sent home.

Blacks want reparations going back to slavery, people today are not still affected by it, since they had no part in it.

I don't know the relationship between modern black people and their ancestors, but I do know mine.
We share a direct connection with our ancestors. I don't expect you to understand it, but it's a fact. I've experienced it myself.

Who demands anyone respect “white culture”?

White people.

Exactly what is white culture?

I've asked myself that question many times. From my point of view white culture is to adopt other cultures and claim it as your own. Example? White colonials invaded our land, enslaved us, raped our sacred women, stole our children and put them in boarding schools (tortured, raped and murdered them), attempted a genocide, tried to eliminate every aspect of our culture. To add insult to injury, they named states (23) cities, rivers, lakes, streets using our words. Where do you think states like the Dakotas, Iowa, Oklahoma got their names? From us.
Perhaps you can educate me as to what 'white culture' really is.

 

[IM2]

Black culture. Indigenous culture. Gay culture. Trans culture. Any culture that is not white heterosexual. We all have to conform to your culture. If I took a job as a salesman and showed up wearing my traditional Native clothes, I would be sent home.

I don't know the relationship between modern black people and their ancestors, but I do know mine.
We share a direct connection with our ancestors. I don't expect you to understand it, but it's a fact. I've experienced it myself.

White people.

I've asked myself that question many times. From my point of view white culture is to adopt other cultures and claim it as your own. Example? White colonials invaded our land, enslaved us, raped our sacred women, stole our children and put them in boarding schools (tortured, raped and murdered them), attempted a genocide, tried to eliminate every aspect of our culture. To add insult to injury, they named states (23) cities, rivers, lakes, streets using our words. Where do you think states like the Dakotas, Iowa, Oklahoma got their names? From us.
Perhaps you can educate me as to what 'white culture' really is.

 

[IM2]

What culture are whites not accepting? Reparations is not a culture. My ancestors were never here so there is nothing to make right, very few whites even had slaves. Blacks want reparations going back to slavery, people today are not still affected by it, since they had no part in it. I am opposed because black people did not earn the money. Some want every black person in this country given reparations, even those not affected by Jim Crow. Who demands anyone respect “white culture”? Exactly what is white culture? Very few people who were affected by Jim Crow are still alive.

A whole lot of blacks living today were alive during Jim Crow. I was born during Jim Crow. But as we see in this forum TODAY, by people like YOU, is the attitude that created the problems during Jim Crow exist now and whites who practice racism do it in a less overt manner.

Reparations are being asked for because of:

Slavery, black codes, convict leasing, the fraud perpetrated on blacks landowners after slavery, redlining, restrictive covenants, contract selling, the exclusion of blacks from New Deal Programs and GI Bill, Housing segregation, predatory lending, Human rights violations in law enforcement, medical racism, retail redlining, and a many other things.

 

[Hellbilly]

Tell you what, you ungrateful lots can move to the country of your choice.

It doesn't work like that.

 

[IM2]

It doesn't work like that.

Westfall has claimed he is a member of one of the Original Nations, yet look at his rhetoric.

 

[Hellbilly]

Westfall has claimed he is a member of one of the Original Nations, yet look at his rhetoric.

He's a pretendian. I've run into quite a few of them here.

 

[MizMolly]

Black culture. Indigenous culture. Gay culture. Trans culture. Any culture that is not white heterosexual. We all have to conform to your culture. If I took a job as a salesman and showed up wearing my traditional Native clothes, I would be sent home.

I don't know the relationship between modern black people and their ancestors, but I do know mine.
We share a direct connection with our ancestors. I don't expect you to understand it, but it's a fact. I've experienced it myself.

White people.

I've asked myself that question many times. From my point of view white culture is to adopt other cultures and claim it as your own. Example? White colonials invaded our land, enslaved us, raped our sacred women, stole our children and put them in boarding schools (tortured, raped and murdered them), attempted a genocide, tried to eliminate every aspect of our culture. To add insult to injury, they named states (23) cities, rivers, lakes, streets using our words. Where do you think states like the Dakotas, Iowa, Oklahoma got their names? From us.
Perhaps you can educate me as to what 'white culture' really is.

That’s just it, there is no white culture. The atrocities that happened in the past are just that, IN THE PAST. I have no control over dress codes, they are set by individual businesses. As far as how you show up dressed at work, if you work for a company that has dress codes, it isn’t their place to conform to you, you conform to their rules, regardless of race or ethnicity. I had to.

 

[MizMolly]

A whole lot of blacks living today were alive during Jim Crow. I was born during Jim Crow. But as we see in this forum TODAY, by people like YOU, is the attitude that created the problems during Jim Crow exist now and whites who practice racism do it in a less overt manner.

Reparations are being asked for because of:

Slavery, black codes, convict leasing, the fraud perpetrated on blacks landowners after slavery, redlining, restrictive covenants, contract selling, the exclusion of blacks from New Deal Programs and GI Bill, Housing segregation, predatory lending, Human rights violations in law enforcement, medical racism, retail redlining, and a many other things.

You were born during Jim Crow, you did not suffer from it as your parents may have. You do exaggerate on the other do-called excuses. Again, you bring up things from time during or right after slavery, which you are not a part of.

 

[Hellbilly]

That’s just it, there is no white culture. The atrocities that happened in the past are just that, IN THE PAST. I have no control over dress codes, they are set by individual businesses.

Considering the last boarding school closed in 1996 and Indigenous women are still being trafficked, murdered and raped at 6 times the rate of non Natives, I'd say it's not in the past at all.

 

[MizMolly]

Considering the last boarding school closed in 1996 and Indigenous women are still being trafficked, murdered and raped at 6 times the rate of non Natives, I'd say it's not in the past at all.

That is happening to women of other races too. Perhaps Native American women are highly trafficked because Arizona has the highest count, where many of the women live. It’s constantly being brought up about horrendous treatment from slavery, that was way before our lifetimes and is not happening today.

 

[Hellbilly]

That is happening to women of other races too.

Not as much as Native women. 6 times as many Native women get taken. Have you ever seen an amber alert for a Native girl? I haven't. Only white girls.

Perhaps Native American women are highly trafficked because Arizona has the highest count, where many of the women live.

That is not the reason.

 

[MizMolly]

Not as much as Native women. 6 times as many Native women get taken. Have you ever seen an amber alert for a Native girl? I haven't. Only white girls.

That is not the reason.

What is the reason, in your opinion?

 

[IM2]

He's a pretendian. I've run into quite a few of them here.

I have too. A lot of"conservatives" become Native Americans when you start exposing current racism and the hhistory of white racist behavior. That or Fews-fake Jews.

 

[IM2]

Molly, this ain't just about the past. And its way past time you stopped lying to yourself about it.

Here are just a few of the comments I have seen here since 2020. I said 2020, not 1920.

“This is pipe dream shit meant to feed the n-I-g-g-e-r-s and the s-p-I-c-s because they’re stupid enough to believe that shit.”

“Today blacks act like animals because they are BARELY evolved past the Ape and need a strong central figure (the white man) to keep them in placeand acting like normal people.”

“Sick of their shit and we should not hide it anymore. When they call me a fucking racist, and I say you damn right I am!!! Fuck those fucking people!”

“Why do Browns (“people of color”) feel compelled to steal, assault,rape, murder Whites, their obvious superior beings? Browns should beworshiping Whites instead of being jealous douchebag criminals.”

“Blacks... prone to violence, think they’re still in the jungle, low IQ blacks.”

And you read Hector and Lisas garbage, say nothing then want to tell every non white person how the racism we talk about is in the past.

It's ain't. So stop trying to tell us that it is.

 

[MizMolly]

Molly, this ain't just about the past. And its way past time you stopped lying to yourself about it.

Here are just a few of the comments I have seen here since 2020. I said 2020, not 1920.

“This is pipe dream shit meant to feed the n-I-g-g-e-r-s and the s-p-I-c-s because they’re stupid enough to believe that shit.”

“Today blacks act like animals because they are BARELY evolved past the Ape and need a strong central figure (the white man) to keep them in placeand acting like normal people.”

“Sick of their shit and we should not hide it anymore. When they call me a fucking racist, and I say you damn right I am!!! Fuck those fucking people!”

“Why do Browns (“people of color”) feel compelled to steal, assault,rape, murder Whites, their obvious superior beings? Browns should beworshiping Whites instead of being jealous douchebag criminals.”

“Blacks... prone to violence, think they’re still in the jungle, low IQ blacks.”

And you read Hector and Lisas garbage, say nothing then want to tell every non white person how the racism we talk about is in the past.

It's ain't. So stop trying to tell us that it is.

I never denied that racism exist. You cannot change racist individuals. What is in the past are the atrocities you feel that you should be compensated for.

 

[Lisa558]

I never denied that racism exist. You cannot change racist individuals. What is in the past are the atrocities you feel that you should be compensated for.

Exactly, but she doesn’t get it.

She regales us with tales of how she’s faced individual racism, and I explained that there are individual antisemites too - and plenty of them. (A Jew is twice as likely to be the victim of a hate crime than a black.)

In order to demonstrate my point, I gave some examples - from having JEW in large letters scratched across the hood of our car, to having JEW scratched into my locker at school, to having some teens come into my house (when my parents weren’t home) to blow out the Shabbat candles and curse my religion, to not being invited to a classmate’s 16th birthday party because her father wouldn’t allow Jews in the house, to many more.

So what does she do? Slaps me with “stop playing the Jewish victim card” while IM2 calls me a “fake Jew” - and then goes right back to telling us about individual cases of racism she’s faced.

And then, for good measure, she calls me “evil” - on a Zone 1 thread.