The reason that this vaccine is idiotic? When you were kids you were vaccinated so you did not become ill

[WinterBorn]

LOL kids are not even being vaccinated with the covid vaccine because kids are not vulnerable. So kids have to wait until they are 60 or more and have been smoking for 40 years or more. Then they can get vaccinated

OKEEDOKEE I understand now

What?? They won't be vaccinated until they are 60? Where do you get your nonsense?

Since vaccine immunity does not last forever, there is no point in vaccinating until there is risk.
And there essentially is no risk until you are over 60.
You can vaccinate sooner, but there is no point in doing so for covid-19 since the vaccine would only increase your risk under the age of 60.

There is a danger. It may not be a fatality, but the long term problems are well documented.

How are the long term problems documented in a brand new fucking vaccine?

Ignorance like yours is often fatal

Go ahead and make more ridiculous claims. I like laughing on Xmas Eve.

Are you really so ignorant that you believe that there is long term effects info on a brand new vaccine?

Take your geritol

I know that the long term effects of covid-19 can be rough. And the hundreds of thousands of deaths are certainly long term.

You said that your father suffered until he died, that is long term, decades and decades

Thanks for agreeing

I said that my ex-father-in-law suffered for decades from exposure to Agent Orange. And that is the truth. Irrelevant to this conversation, but still the truth.

Your father had long term effects and that is very relevant because you waffle back and forth like an autistic kid trying to stand still

I know facts aren't important to you, but do pay attention. There is a distinct difference between a father and a father-in-law.

Not in as much as long term suffering.

That was sad pop, you might want to call one of your boyfriends

Ohhh, are you resorting to homophobic insults now? LMAO!!

Sad is referring to a conversation in another thread, on another topic, and thinking it relevant. It isn't.

Tell us how many rna vaccines you have had?

None.

How many scientific sources do you have for your claim that the covid vaccine alters your DNA?

More than your scientific sources that this vaccine is safe long term

That is a lie. I have posted links from experts. You have done nothing but lie.

 

[L.K.Eder]

The school tried to put my youngest on ritalin because they said he kept his desk to messy. They should have seen his room. We told them FU.

Yeah...I was one of their 'hyperactive' guinea pigs 50 years ago..
I try to warn parents against it and that my turning out okay is no reflection on the harm it caused me. I was basically a drug addict at 9 years old because I couldn't sit still for hours at a time at a place as boring as school. I just wanted to play baseball.

lol

 

[L.K.Eder]

LOL kids are not even being vaccinated with the covid vaccine because kids are not vulnerable. So kids have to wait until they are 60 or more and have been smoking for 40 years or more. Then they can get vaccinated

OKEEDOKEE I understand now

What?? They won't be vaccinated until they are 60? Where do you get your nonsense?

This is a serious debate- not really a time for mudslinging .

I agree that this issue is serious. But some of the posts made by Esalla are ridiculous. His claims that the vaccine will alter your DNA, is one example.

No more ridiculous than to say it wont ?

The covid vaccine is an mRNA vaccine. It does not alter your DNA.

What does it alter?

The mRNA vaccine "teaches" your body to make the antibodies needed to avoid getting covid-19. RNA does not remain long term. It is flushed out.

No, the Moderna and Pfizer RNA vaccines for COVID-19 will not “permanently alter your DNA” – Science-Based Medicine
There is a very good explanation of how the covid vaccine works, if you remember enough of your high school biology to understand it.

If your DNA is not altered permanently then the vaccine will not have lasting effects

Except in your delusions

wrong. delete your account.

 

[L.K.Eder]

LOL kids are not even being vaccinated with the covid vaccine because kids are not vulnerable. So kids have to wait until they are 60 or more and have been smoking for 40 years or more. Then they can get vaccinated

OKEEDOKEE I understand now

What?? They won't be vaccinated until they are 60? Where do you get your nonsense?

This is a serious debate- not really a time for mudslinging .

I agree that this issue is serious. But some of the posts made by Esalla are ridiculous. His claims that the vaccine will alter your DNA, is one example.

No more ridiculous than to say it wont ?

The covid vaccine is an mRNA vaccine. It does not alter your DNA.

What does it alter?

The mRNA vaccine "teaches" your body to make the antibodies needed to avoid getting covid-19. RNA does not remain long term. It is flushed out.

No, the Moderna and Pfizer RNA vaccines for COVID-19 will not “permanently alter your DNA” – Science-Based Medicine
There is a very good explanation of how the covid vaccine works, if you remember enough of your high school biology to understand it.

If your DNA is not altered permanently then the vaccine will not have lasting effects

Except in your delusions

wrong. delete your account.

Delete his account because he is wrong? Lol. By that standard you should have deleted yours a long time ago.

lol wut? do you even know who i am. do you even grasp how wrong that tard was?

 

[esalla]

LOL kids are not even being vaccinated with the covid vaccine because kids are not vulnerable. So kids have to wait until they are 60 or more and have been smoking for 40 years or more. Then they can get vaccinated

OKEEDOKEE I understand now

What?? They won't be vaccinated until they are 60? Where do you get your nonsense?

Since vaccine immunity does not last forever, there is no point in vaccinating until there is risk.
And there essentially is no risk until you are over 60.
You can vaccinate sooner, but there is no point in doing so for covid-19 since the vaccine would only increase your risk under the age of 60.

There is a danger. It may not be a fatality, but the long term problems are well documented.

How are the long term problems documented in a brand new fucking vaccine?

Ignorance like yours is often fatal

Go ahead and make more ridiculous claims. I like laughing on Xmas Eve.

Are you really so ignorant that you believe that there is long term effects info on a brand new vaccine?

Take your geritol

I know that the long term effects of covid-19 can be rough. And the hundreds of thousands of deaths are certainly long term.

You said that your father suffered until he died, that is long term, decades and decades

Thanks for agreeing

I said that my ex-father-in-law suffered for decades from exposure to Agent Orange. And that is the truth. Irrelevant to this conversation, but still the truth.

Your father had long term effects and that is very relevant because you waffle back and forth like an autistic kid trying to stand still

I know facts aren't important to you, but do pay attention. There is a distinct difference between a father and a father-in-law.

Not in as much as long term suffering.

That was sad pop, you might want to call one of your boyfriends

Ohhh, are you resorting to homophobic insults now? LMAO!!

Sad is referring to a conversation in another thread, on another topic, and thinking it relevant. It isn't.

Tell us how many rna vaccines you have had?

None.

How many scientific sources do you have for your claim that the covid vaccine alters your DNA?

More than your scientific sources that this vaccine is safe long term

That is a lie. I have posted links from experts. You have done nothing but lie.

LOL your experts ordered nursing homes to admit covid positive patients so as to kill more people.

See if you can quantum unentangle that

 

[WinterBorn]

LOL kids are not even being vaccinated with the covid vaccine because kids are not vulnerable. So kids have to wait until they are 60 or more and have been smoking for 40 years or more. Then they can get vaccinated

OKEEDOKEE I understand now

What?? They won't be vaccinated until they are 60? Where do you get your nonsense?

This is a serious debate- not really a time for mudslinging .

I agree that this issue is serious. But some of the posts made by Esalla are ridiculous. His claims that the vaccine will alter your DNA, is one example.

No more ridiculous than to say it wont ?

The covid vaccine is an mRNA vaccine. It does not alter your DNA.

What does it alter?

The mRNA vaccine "teaches" your body to make the antibodies needed to avoid getting covid-19. RNA does not remain long term. It is flushed out.

No, the Moderna and Pfizer RNA vaccines for COVID-19 will not “permanently alter your DNA” – Science-Based Medicine
There is a very good explanation of how the covid vaccine works, if you remember enough of your high school biology to understand it.

If your DNA is not altered permanently then the vaccine will not have lasting effects

Except in your delusions

wrong. delete your account.

Delete his account because he is wrong? Lol. By that standard you should have deleted yours a long time ago.

lol wut? do you even know who i am. do you even grasp how wrong that tard was?

I thought I was quoting him. When I realized my mistake I deleted my post.

 

[WinterBorn]

LOL kids are not even being vaccinated with the covid vaccine because kids are not vulnerable. So kids have to wait until they are 60 or more and have been smoking for 40 years or more. Then they can get vaccinated

OKEEDOKEE I understand now

What?? They won't be vaccinated until they are 60? Where do you get your nonsense?

Since vaccine immunity does not last forever, there is no point in vaccinating until there is risk.
And there essentially is no risk until you are over 60.
You can vaccinate sooner, but there is no point in doing so for covid-19 since the vaccine would only increase your risk under the age of 60.

There is a danger. It may not be a fatality, but the long term problems are well documented.

How are the long term problems documented in a brand new fucking vaccine?

Ignorance like yours is often fatal

Go ahead and make more ridiculous claims. I like laughing on Xmas Eve.

Are you really so ignorant that you believe that there is long term effects info on a brand new vaccine?

Take your geritol

I know that the long term effects of covid-19 can be rough. And the hundreds of thousands of deaths are certainly long term.

You said that your father suffered until he died, that is long term, decades and decades

Thanks for agreeing

I said that my ex-father-in-law suffered for decades from exposure to Agent Orange. And that is the truth. Irrelevant to this conversation, but still the truth.

Your father had long term effects and that is very relevant because you waffle back and forth like an autistic kid trying to stand still

I know facts aren't important to you, but do pay attention. There is a distinct difference between a father and a father-in-law.

Not in as much as long term suffering.

That was sad pop, you might want to call one of your boyfriends

Ohhh, are you resorting to homophobic insults now? LMAO!!

Sad is referring to a conversation in another thread, on another topic, and thinking it relevant. It isn't.

Tell us how many rna vaccines you have had?

None.

How many scientific sources do you have for your claim that the covid vaccine alters your DNA?

More than your scientific sources that this vaccine is safe long term

That is a lie. I have posted links from experts. You have done nothing but lie.

LOL your experts ordered nursing homes to admit covid positive patients so as to kill more people.

See if you can quantum unentangle that

Have you come up with any reputable source for your claim that the covid vaccine alters your DNA?

 

[L.K.Eder]

LOL kids are not even being vaccinated with the covid vaccine because kids are not vulnerable. So kids have to wait until they are 60 or more and have been smoking for 40 years or more. Then they can get vaccinated

OKEEDOKEE I understand now

What?? They won't be vaccinated until they are 60? Where do you get your nonsense?

This is a serious debate- not really a time for mudslinging .

I agree that this issue is serious. But some of the posts made by Esalla are ridiculous. His claims that the vaccine will alter your DNA, is one example.

No more ridiculous than to say it wont ?

The covid vaccine is an mRNA vaccine. It does not alter your DNA.

What does it alter?

The mRNA vaccine "teaches" your body to make the antibodies needed to avoid getting covid-19. RNA does not remain long term. It is flushed out.

No, the Moderna and Pfizer RNA vaccines for COVID-19 will not “permanently alter your DNA” – Science-Based Medicine
There is a very good explanation of how the covid vaccine works, if you remember enough of your high school biology to understand it.

If your DNA is not altered permanently then the vaccine will not have lasting effects

Except in your delusions

wrong. delete your account.

Delete his account because he is wrong? Lol. By that standard you should have deleted yours a long time ago.

lol wut? do you even know who i am. do you even grasp how wrong that tard was?

I thought I was quoting him. When I realized my mistake I deleted my post.

ok. no problem then.

 

[L.K.Eder]

LOL kids are not even being vaccinated with the covid vaccine because kids are not vulnerable. So kids have to wait until they are 60 or more and have been smoking for 40 years or more. Then they can get vaccinated

OKEEDOKEE I understand now

What?? They won't be vaccinated until they are 60? Where do you get your nonsense?

Since vaccine immunity does not last forever, there is no point in vaccinating until there is risk.
And there essentially is no risk until you are over 60.
You can vaccinate sooner, but there is no point in doing so for covid-19 since the vaccine would only increase your risk under the age of 60.

There is a danger. It may not be a fatality, but the long term problems are well documented.

How are the long term problems documented in a brand new fucking vaccine?

Ignorance like yours is often fatal

Go ahead and make more ridiculous claims. I like laughing on Xmas Eve.

Are you really so ignorant that you believe that there is long term effects info on a brand new vaccine?

Take your geritol

I know that the long term effects of covid-19 can be rough. And the hundreds of thousands of deaths are certainly long term.

You said that your father suffered until he died, that is long term, decades and decades

Thanks for agreeing

I said that my ex-father-in-law suffered for decades from exposure to Agent Orange. And that is the truth. Irrelevant to this conversation, but still the truth.

Your father had long term effects and that is very relevant because you waffle back and forth like an autistic kid trying to stand still

I know facts aren't important to you, but do pay attention. There is a distinct difference between a father and a father-in-law.

Not in as much as long term suffering.

That was sad pop, you might want to call one of your boyfriends

Ohhh, are you resorting to homophobic insults now? LMAO!!

Sad is referring to a conversation in another thread, on another topic, and thinking it relevant. It isn't.

Tell us how many rna vaccines you have had?

None.

How many scientific sources do you have for your claim that the covid vaccine alters your DNA?

More than your scientific sources that this vaccine is safe long term

That is a lie. I have posted links from experts. You have done nothing but lie.

LOL your experts ordered nursing homes to admit covid positive patients so as to kill more people.

See if you can quantum unentangle that

Have you come up with any reputable source for your claim that the covid vaccine alters your DNA?

he can't. he doesn't understand the technique, at all.

 

[dudmuck]

LOL kids are not even being vaccinated with the covid vaccine because kids are not vulnerable. So kids have to wait until they are 60 or more and have been smoking for 40 years or more. Then they can get vaccinated

OKEEDOKEE I understand now

What?? They won't be vaccinated until they are 60? Where do you get your nonsense?

Since vaccine immunity does not last forever, there is no point in vaccinating until there is risk.
And there essentially is no risk until you are over 60.
You can vaccinate sooner, but there is no point in doing so for covid-19 since the vaccine would only increase your risk under the age of 60.

There is less risk from covid if youre under 60.
The risk has more to do with having a co-morbidity like diabetes or hypertension or or obesity or low vitamin-D.
The reason to take vaccine is so that youre not spreading the virus everywhere if you get infected with it.

 

[the other mike]

Big Pharma intermission...

 

[the other mike]

There is less risk from covid if youre under 60.

I'm just gonna stay 59.

When I'm 107 , I'll be like ..."No I'm really 59."
See what ritalin does to people.

 

[esalla]

LOL kids are not even being vaccinated with the covid vaccine because kids are not vulnerable. So kids have to wait until they are 60 or more and have been smoking for 40 years or more. Then they can get vaccinated

OKEEDOKEE I understand now

What?? They won't be vaccinated until they are 60? Where do you get your nonsense?

Since vaccine immunity does not last forever, there is no point in vaccinating until there is risk.
And there essentially is no risk until you are over 60.
You can vaccinate sooner, but there is no point in doing so for covid-19 since the vaccine would only increase your risk under the age of 60.

There is a danger. It may not be a fatality, but the long term problems are well documented.

How are the long term problems documented in a brand new fucking vaccine?

Ignorance like yours is often fatal

Go ahead and make more ridiculous claims. I like laughing on Xmas Eve.

Are you really so ignorant that you believe that there is long term effects info on a brand new vaccine?

Take your geritol

I know that the long term effects of covid-19 can be rough. And the hundreds of thousands of deaths are certainly long term.

You said that your father suffered until he died, that is long term, decades and decades

Thanks for agreeing

I said that my ex-father-in-law suffered for decades from exposure to Agent Orange. And that is the truth. Irrelevant to this conversation, but still the truth.

Your father had long term effects and that is very relevant because you waffle back and forth like an autistic kid trying to stand still

I know facts aren't important to you, but do pay attention. There is a distinct difference between a father and a father-in-law.

Not in as much as long term suffering.

That was sad pop, you might want to call one of your boyfriends

Ohhh, are you resorting to homophobic insults now? LMAO!!

Sad is referring to a conversation in another thread, on another topic, and thinking it relevant. It isn't.

Tell us how many rna vaccines you have had?

None.

How many scientific sources do you have for your claim that the covid vaccine alters your DNA?

More than your scientific sources that this vaccine is safe long term

That is a lie. I have posted links from experts. You have done nothing but lie.

LOL your experts ordered nursing homes to admit covid positive patients so as to kill more people.

See if you can quantum unentangle that

Have you come up with any reputable source for your claim that the covid vaccine alters your DNA?

DNA constantly changes, this vaccine will not be doing anything revolutionary by changing DNA, Agent Orange changed DNA

DNA Is Constantly Changing through the Process of Mutation | Learn Science at Scitable (nature.com)


DNA is a dynamic and adaptable molecule. As such, the nucleotide sequences found within it are subject to change as the result of a phenomenon called mutation. Depending on how a particular mutation modifies an organism's genetic makeup, it can prove harmless, helpful, or even hurtful. Sometimes, a mutation may even cause dramatic changes in the physiology of an affected organism. Of course, in order to better understand the varying effects of mutations, it is first necessary to understand what mutations are and how they occur.


Where do mutations occur?

Mutations can be grouped into two main categories based on where they occur: somatic mutations and germ-line mutations. Somatic mutations take place in non-reproductive cells. Many kinds of somatic mutations have no obvious effect on an organism, because genetically normal body cells are able to compensate for the mutated cells. Nonetheless, certain other mutations can greatly impact the life and function of an organism. For example, somatic mutations that affect cell division (particularly those that allow cells to divide uncontrollably) are the basis for many forms of cancer.
Germ-line mutations occur in gametes or in cells that eventually produce gametes. In contrast with somatic mutations, germ-line mutations are passed on to an organism's progeny. As a result, future generations of organisms will carry the mutation in all of their cells (both somatic and germ-line).


What kinds of mutations exist?

Mutations aren't just grouped according to where they occur — frequently, they are also categorized by the length of the nucleotide sequences they affect. Changes to short stretches of nucleotides are called gene-level mutations, because these mutations affect the specific genes that provide instructions for various functional molecules, including proteins. Changes in these molecules can have an impact on any number of an organism's physical characteristics. As opposed to gene-level mutations, mutations that alter longer stretches of DNA (ranging from multiple genes up to entire chromosomes) are called chromosomal mutations. These mutations often have serious consequences for affected organisms. Because gene-level mutations are more common than chromosomal mutations, the following sections focus on these smaller alterations to the normal genetic sequence.

Base substitution
Base substitutions are the simplest type of gene-level mutation, and they involve the swapping of one nucleotide for another during DNA replication. For example, during replication, a thymine nucleotide might be inserted in place of a guanine nucleotide. With base substitution mutations, only a single nucleotide within a gene sequence is changed, so only one codon is affected (Figure 1).

Figure 1: Only a single codon in the gene sequence is changed in base substitution mutation.

Figure Detail

Although a base substitution alters only a single codon in a gene, it can still have a significant impact on protein production. In fact, depending on the nature of the codon change, base substitutions can lead to three different subcategories of mutations. The first of these subcategories consists of missense mutations, in which the altered codon leads to insertion of an incorrect amino acid into a protein molecule during translation; the second consists of nonsense mutations, in which the altered codon prematurely terminates synthesis of a protein molecule; and the third consists of silent mutations, in which the altered codon codes for the same amino acid as the unaltered codon.


Insertions and deletions

Figure 2: During an insertion mutation, the replicating strand \"slips\" or forms a wrinkle, which causes the extra nucleotide to be incorporated.

Figure Detail
Insertions and deletions are two other types of mutations that can affect cells at the gene level. An insertion mutation occurs when an extra nucleotide is added to the DNA strand during replication. This can happen when the replicating strand "slips," or wrinkles, which allows the extra nucleotide to be incorporated (Figure 2). Strand slippage can also lead to deletion mutations. A deletion mutation occurs when a wrinkle forms on the DNA template strand and subsequently causes a nucleotide to be omitted from the replicated strand (Figure 3).

Figure 3: In a deletion mutation, a wrinkle forms on the DNA template strand, which causes a nucleotide to be omitted from the replicated strand.

Figure Detail


Frameshift mutations

Figure 4: If the number of bases removed or inserted from a segment of DNA is not a multiple of three (a), a different sequence with a different set of reading frames is transcribed to mRNA (b).

Figure Detail
Insertion or deletion of one or more nucleotides during replication can also lead to another type of mutation known as a frameshift mutation. The outcome of a frameshift mutation is complete alteration of the amino acid sequence of a protein. This alteration occurs during translation because ribosomes read the mRNA strand in terms of codons, or groups of three nucleotides. These groups are called the reading frame. Thus, if the number of bases removed from or inserted into a segment of DNA is not a multiple of three (Figure 4a), the reading frame transcribed to the mRNA will be completely changed (Figure 4b). Consequently, once it encounters the mutation, the ribosome will read the mRNA sequence differently, which can result in the production of an entirely different sequence of amino acids in the growing polypeptide chain.
To better understand frameshift mutations, let's consider the analogy of words as codons, and letters within those words as nucleotides. Each word itself has a separate meaning, as each codons represents one amino acid. The following sentence is composed entirely of three-letter words, each representing a three-letter codon:
THE BIG BAD FLY HAD ONE RED EYE AND ONE BLU EYE.
Now, suppose that a mutation eliminates the sixth nucleotide, in this case the letter "G". This deletion means that the letters shift, and the rest of the sentence contains entirely new "words":
THE BIB ADF LYH ADO NER EDE YEA NDO NEB LUE YE.
This error changes the relationship of all nucleotides to each codon, and effectively changes every single codon in the sequence. Consequently, there is a widespread change in the amino acid sequence of the protein. Lets consider an example with an RNA sequence that codes for a sequence of amino acids:
AUG AAA CUU CGC AGG AUG AUG AUG

With the triplet code, the sequence shown in figure 5 corresponds to a protein made of the following amino acids:

Methionine-Lysine-Leucine-Arginine-Arginine-Methionine-Methionine-Methionin

Figure 5: This sequence of mRNA codes for the amino acids methionine-lysine-leucine-arginine-arginine-methionine-methionine-methionine.

Figure Detail


Now, suppose that a mutation occurs during replication, and it results in deletion of the fourth nucleotide in the sequence. When separated into triplet codons, the nucleotide sequence would now read as follows (Figure 6):

AUG AAC UUC GCA GGA UGA UGA UG

This series of codons would encode the following sequence of amino acids:

Methionine-Asparagine-Phenylalanine-Alanine-Glycine-STOP-STOP

Figure 6: If the fourth nucleotide in the sequence is deleted, the reading frame shifts and the amino acid sequence changes to methionine-asparagine-phenylalanine-alanine-glycine-STOP-STOP.

Figure Detail

Each of the stop codons tells the ribosome to terminate protein synthesis at that point. Consequently, the mutant protein is entirely different due to the deletion of the fourth nucleotide, and it is also shorter due to the appearance of a premature stop codon. This mutant protein will be unable to perform its necessary function in the cell.



What causes mutations?

Mutations can arise in cells of all types as a result of a variety of factors, including chance. In fact, some of the mutations discussed above are the result of spontaneous events during replication, and they are thus known as spontaneous mutations. Slippage of the DNA template strand and subsequent insertion of an extra nucleotide is one example of a spontaneous mutation; excess flexibility of the DNA strand and the subsequent mispairing of bases is another.
Environmental exposure to certain chemicals, ultraviolet radiation, or other external factors can also cause DNA to change. These external agents of genetic change are called mutagens. Exposure to mutagens often causes alterations in the molecular structure of nucleotides, ultimately causing substitutions, insertions, and deletions in the DNA sequence.


What are the consequences of mutations?


More on mutation

• The sickle-cell trait: A beneficial mutation

Mutations are a source of genetic diversity in populations, and, as mentioned previously, they can have widely varying individual effects. In some cases, mutations prove beneficial to an organism by making it better able to adapt to environmental factors. In other situations, mutations are harmful to an organism — for instance, they might lead to increased susceptibility to illness or disease. In still other circumstances, mutations are neutral, proving neither beneficial nor detrimental outcomes to an organism. Thus, it is safe to say that the ultimate effects of mutations are as widely varied as the types of mutations themselves.

 

[L.K.Eder]

LOL kids are not even being vaccinated with the covid vaccine because kids are not vulnerable. So kids have to wait until they are 60 or more and have been smoking for 40 years or more. Then they can get vaccinated

OKEEDOKEE I understand now

What?? They won't be vaccinated until they are 60? Where do you get your nonsense?

Since vaccine immunity does not last forever, there is no point in vaccinating until there is risk.
And there essentially is no risk until you are over 60.
You can vaccinate sooner, but there is no point in doing so for covid-19 since the vaccine would only increase your risk under the age of 60.

There is a danger. It may not be a fatality, but the long term problems are well documented.

How are the long term problems documented in a brand new fucking vaccine?

Ignorance like yours is often fatal

Go ahead and make more ridiculous claims. I like laughing on Xmas Eve.

Are you really so ignorant that you believe that there is long term effects info on a brand new vaccine?

Take your geritol

I know that the long term effects of covid-19 can be rough. And the hundreds of thousands of deaths are certainly long term.

You said that your father suffered until he died, that is long term, decades and decades

Thanks for agreeing

I said that my ex-father-in-law suffered for decades from exposure to Agent Orange. And that is the truth. Irrelevant to this conversation, but still the truth.

Your father had long term effects and that is very relevant because you waffle back and forth like an autistic kid trying to stand still

I know facts aren't important to you, but do pay attention. There is a distinct difference between a father and a father-in-law.

Not in as much as long term suffering.

That was sad pop, you might want to call one of your boyfriends

Ohhh, are you resorting to homophobic insults now? LMAO!!

Sad is referring to a conversation in another thread, on another topic, and thinking it relevant. It isn't.

Tell us how many rna vaccines you have had?

None.

How many scientific sources do you have for your claim that the covid vaccine alters your DNA?

More than your scientific sources that this vaccine is safe long term

That is a lie. I have posted links from experts. You have done nothing but lie.

LOL your experts ordered nursing homes to admit covid positive patients so as to kill more people.

See if you can quantum unentangle that

Have you come up with any reputable source for your claim that the covid vaccine alters your DNA?

DNA constantly changes, this vaccine will not be doing anything revolutionary by changing DNA, Agent Orange changed DNA

DNA Is Constantly Changing through the Process of Mutation | Learn Science at Scitable (nature.com)


DNA is a dynamic and adaptable molecule. As such, the nucleotide sequences found within it are subject to change as the result of a phenomenon called mutation. Depending on how a particular mutation modifies an organism's genetic makeup, it can prove harmless, helpful, or even hurtful. Sometimes, a mutation may even cause dramatic changes in the physiology of an affected organism. Of course, in order to better understand the varying effects of mutations, it is first necessary to understand what mutations are and how they occur.


Where do mutations occur?

Mutations can be grouped into two main categories based on where they occur: somatic mutations and germ-line mutations. Somatic mutations take place in non-reproductive cells. Many kinds of somatic mutations have no obvious effect on an organism, because genetically normal body cells are able to compensate for the mutated cells. Nonetheless, certain other mutations can greatly impact the life and function of an organism. For example, somatic mutations that affect cell division (particularly those that allow cells to divide uncontrollably) are the basis for many forms of cancer.
Germ-line mutations occur in gametes or in cells that eventually produce gametes. In contrast with somatic mutations, germ-line mutations are passed on to an organism's progeny. As a result, future generations of organisms will carry the mutation in all of their cells (both somatic and germ-line).


What kinds of mutations exist?

Mutations aren't just grouped according to where they occur — frequently, they are also categorized by the length of the nucleotide sequences they affect. Changes to short stretches of nucleotides are called gene-level mutations, because these mutations affect the specific genes that provide instructions for various functional molecules, including proteins. Changes in these molecules can have an impact on any number of an organism's physical characteristics. As opposed to gene-level mutations, mutations that alter longer stretches of DNA (ranging from multiple genes up to entire chromosomes) are called chromosomal mutations. These mutations often have serious consequences for affected organisms. Because gene-level mutations are more common than chromosomal mutations, the following sections focus on these smaller alterations to the normal genetic sequence.

Base substitution
Base substitutions are the simplest type of gene-level mutation, and they involve the swapping of one nucleotide for another during DNA replication. For example, during replication, a thymine nucleotide might be inserted in place of a guanine nucleotide. With base substitution mutations, only a single nucleotide within a gene sequence is changed, so only one codon is affected (Figure 1).

Figure 1: Only a single codon in the gene sequence is changed in base substitution mutation.

Figure Detail

Although a base substitution alters only a single codon in a gene, it can still have a significant impact on protein production. In fact, depending on the nature of the codon change, base substitutions can lead to three different subcategories of mutations. The first of these subcategories consists of missense mutations, in which the altered codon leads to insertion of an incorrect amino acid into a protein molecule during translation; the second consists of nonsense mutations, in which the altered codon prematurely terminates synthesis of a protein molecule; and the third consists of silent mutations, in which the altered codon codes for the same amino acid as the unaltered codon.


Insertions and deletions

Figure 2: During an insertion mutation, the replicating strand \"slips\" or forms a wrinkle, which causes the extra nucleotide to be incorporated.

Figure Detail
Insertions and deletions are two other types of mutations that can affect cells at the gene level. An insertion mutation occurs when an extra nucleotide is added to the DNA strand during replication. This can happen when the replicating strand "slips," or wrinkles, which allows the extra nucleotide to be incorporated (Figure 2). Strand slippage can also lead to deletion mutations. A deletion mutation occurs when a wrinkle forms on the DNA template strand and subsequently causes a nucleotide to be omitted from the replicated strand (Figure 3).

Figure 3: In a deletion mutation, a wrinkle forms on the DNA template strand, which causes a nucleotide to be omitted from the replicated strand.

Figure Detail


Frameshift mutations

Figure 4: If the number of bases removed or inserted from a segment of DNA is not a multiple of three (a), a different sequence with a different set of reading frames is transcribed to mRNA (b).

Figure Detail
Insertion or deletion of one or more nucleotides during replication can also lead to another type of mutation known as a frameshift mutation. The outcome of a frameshift mutation is complete alteration of the amino acid sequence of a protein. This alteration occurs during translation because ribosomes read the mRNA strand in terms of codons, or groups of three nucleotides. These groups are called the reading frame. Thus, if the number of bases removed from or inserted into a segment of DNA is not a multiple of three (Figure 4a), the reading frame transcribed to the mRNA will be completely changed (Figure 4b). Consequently, once it encounters the mutation, the ribosome will read the mRNA sequence differently, which can result in the production of an entirely different sequence of amino acids in the growing polypeptide chain.
To better understand frameshift mutations, let's consider the analogy of words as codons, and letters within those words as nucleotides. Each word itself has a separate meaning, as each codons represents one amino acid. The following sentence is composed entirely of three-letter words, each representing a three-letter codon:
THE BIG BAD FLY HAD ONE RED EYE AND ONE BLU EYE.
Now, suppose that a mutation eliminates the sixth nucleotide, in this case the letter "G". This deletion means that the letters shift, and the rest of the sentence contains entirely new "words":
THE BIB ADF LYH ADO NER EDE YEA NDO NEB LUE YE.
This error changes the relationship of all nucleotides to each codon, and effectively changes every single codon in the sequence. Consequently, there is a widespread change in the amino acid sequence of the protein. Lets consider an example with an RNA sequence that codes for a sequence of amino acids:
AUG AAA CUU CGC AGG AUG AUG AUG

With the triplet code, the sequence shown in figure 5 corresponds to a protein made of the following amino acids:

Methionine-Lysine-Leucine-Arginine-Arginine-Methionine-Methionine-Methionin

Figure 5: This sequence of mRNA codes for the amino acids methionine-lysine-leucine-arginine-arginine-methionine-methionine-methionine.

Figure Detail


Now, suppose that a mutation occurs during replication, and it results in deletion of the fourth nucleotide in the sequence. When separated into triplet codons, the nucleotide sequence would now read as follows (Figure 6):

AUG AAC UUC GCA GGA UGA UGA UG

This series of codons would encode the following sequence of amino acids:

Methionine-Asparagine-Phenylalanine-Alanine-Glycine-STOP-STOP

Figure 6: If the fourth nucleotide in the sequence is deleted, the reading frame shifts and the amino acid sequence changes to methionine-asparagine-phenylalanine-alanine-glycine-STOP-STOP.

Figure Detail

Each of the stop codons tells the ribosome to terminate protein synthesis at that point. Consequently, the mutant protein is entirely different due to the deletion of the fourth nucleotide, and it is also shorter due to the appearance of a premature stop codon. This mutant protein will be unable to perform its necessary function in the cell.



What causes mutations?

Mutations can arise in cells of all types as a result of a variety of factors, including chance. In fact, some of the mutations discussed above are the result of spontaneous events during replication, and they are thus known as spontaneous mutations. Slippage of the DNA template strand and subsequent insertion of an extra nucleotide is one example of a spontaneous mutation; excess flexibility of the DNA strand and the subsequent mispairing of bases is another.
Environmental exposure to certain chemicals, ultraviolet radiation, or other external factors can also cause DNA to change. These external agents of genetic change are called mutagens. Exposure to mutagens often causes alterations in the molecular structure of nucleotides, ultimately causing substitutions, insertions, and deletions in the DNA sequence.


What are the consequences of mutations?


More on mutation

• The sickle-cell trait: A beneficial mutation

Mutations are a source of genetic diversity in populations, and, as mentioned previously, they can have widely varying individual effects. In some cases, mutations prove beneficial to an organism by making it better able to adapt to environmental factors. In other situations, mutations are harmful to an organism — for instance, they might lead to increased susceptibility to illness or disease. In still other circumstances, mutations are neutral, proving neither beneficial nor detrimental outcomes to an organism. Thus, it is safe to say that the ultimate effects of mutations are as widely varied as the types of mutations themselves.

get the fuck outta here. you don't even understand the difference between mRNA and DNA

 

[Rigby5]

Through this whole ordeal watching the right try to comprehend epidemiology has been like watching a Homo Erectus encountering a black monolith. I'm sure the ones who managed to graduate had high school biology. How the hell do you totally forget all that?

I am an extreme leftist, progressive, liberal who understand epidemiology perfectly, and I can tell you that flattening the curve so we could wait for an untested and unnecessary vaccine is murder.

Herd immunity is historically what ended all established epidemics in all of history, such as the 1948 polio epidemic. The Salk vaccine was not available until 1957, after the epidemic was over.
Vaccines prevent future epidemics, not end ones in progress, because they take too long.

Tell me any epidemic in progress that was ended by anything other than herd immunity.
Even SARS, MERS, Hong Kong flu, Asian flu, Avian flu, Ebola, etc., were all ended through herd immunity.

Herd immunity without a vaccine has always meant an appaling number of deaths and a broken health care system. Most of the viruses you mentioned were not actually ended but they are still being held in check through isolation and by virtue of not being particularly contagious.

Herd immunity almost never meant an appalling number of deaths.
That is because herd immunity is similar to total quarantine in working fast.
It relies on local burn out to end the epidemic very quickly.

No virus endemic to humans is ended, and will always keep returning once there are new generations who are not immune. So vaccine are a great idea for them. But covid-19 is not endemic to humans, but to bats, so it is not coming back. So a vaccine for covid-19 is totally and completely useless. And gaining immunity adds risks, as it stresses your immune system more and more.

The highest possible death toll comes from delaying the end of the epidemic through flattening the curve. The longer the epidemic is allowed to stay viable, the wider it spreads and the more will die. A short quick spike of herd immunity results in the fewest deaths.

 

[Rigby5]

LOL kids are not even being vaccinated with the covid vaccine because kids are not vulnerable. So kids have to wait until they are 60 or more and have been smoking for 40 years or more. Then they can get vaccinated

OKEEDOKEE I understand now

What?? They won't be vaccinated until they are 60? Where do you get your nonsense?

Since vaccine immunity does not last forever, there is no point in vaccinating until there is risk.
And there essentially is no risk until you are over 60.
You can vaccinate sooner, but there is no point in doing so for covid-19 since the vaccine would only increase your risk under the age of 60.

There is a danger. It may not be a fatality, but the long term problems are well documented.

How are the long term problems documented in a brand new fucking vaccine?

Ignorance like yours is often fatal

Go ahead and make more ridiculous claims. I like laughing on Xmas Eve.

Are you really so ignorant that you believe that there is long term effects info on a brand new vaccine?

Take your geritol

I know that the long term effects of covid-19 can be rough. And the hundreds of thousands of deaths are certainly long term.

You said that your father suffered until he died, that is long term, decades and decades

Thanks for agreeing

I said that my ex-father-in-law suffered for decades from exposure to Agent Orange. And that is the truth. Irrelevant to this conversation, but still the truth.

Your father had long term effects and that is very relevant because you waffle back and forth like an autistic kid trying to stand still

I know facts aren't important to you, but do pay attention. There is a distinct difference between a father and a father-in-law.

Not in as much as long term suffering.

That was sad pop, you might want to call one of your boyfriends

Ohhh, are you resorting to homophobic insults now? LMAO!!

Sad is referring to a conversation in another thread, on another topic, and thinking it relevant. It isn't.

Tell us how many rna vaccines you have had?

None.

How many scientific sources do you have for your claim that the covid vaccine alters your DNA?

More than your scientific sources that this vaccine is safe long term

That is a lie. I have posted links from experts. You have done nothing but lie.

LOL your experts ordered nursing homes to admit covid positive patients so as to kill more people.

See if you can quantum unentangle that

Have you come up with any reputable source for your claim that the covid vaccine alters your DNA?

DNA constantly changes, this vaccine will not be doing anything revolutionary by changing DNA, Agent Orange changed DNA

DNA Is Constantly Changing through the Process of Mutation | Learn Science at Scitable (nature.com)


DNA is a dynamic and adaptable molecule. As such, the nucleotide sequences found within it are subject to change as the result of a phenomenon called mutation. Depending on how a particular mutation modifies an organism's genetic makeup, it can prove harmless, helpful, or even hurtful. Sometimes, a mutation may even cause dramatic changes in the physiology of an affected organism. Of course, in order to better understand the varying effects of mutations, it is first necessary to understand what mutations are and how they occur.


Where do mutations occur?

Mutations can be grouped into two main categories based on where they occur: somatic mutations and germ-line mutations. Somatic mutations take place in non-reproductive cells. Many kinds of somatic mutations have no obvious effect on an organism, because genetically normal body cells are able to compensate for the mutated cells. Nonetheless, certain other mutations can greatly impact the life and function of an organism. For example, somatic mutations that affect cell division (particularly those that allow cells to divide uncontrollably) are the basis for many forms of cancer.
Germ-line mutations occur in gametes or in cells that eventually produce gametes. In contrast with somatic mutations, germ-line mutations are passed on to an organism's progeny. As a result, future generations of organisms will carry the mutation in all of their cells (both somatic and germ-line).


What kinds of mutations exist?

Mutations aren't just grouped according to where they occur — frequently, they are also categorized by the length of the nucleotide sequences they affect. Changes to short stretches of nucleotides are called gene-level mutations, because these mutations affect the specific genes that provide instructions for various functional molecules, including proteins. Changes in these molecules can have an impact on any number of an organism's physical characteristics. As opposed to gene-level mutations, mutations that alter longer stretches of DNA (ranging from multiple genes up to entire chromosomes) are called chromosomal mutations. These mutations often have serious consequences for affected organisms. Because gene-level mutations are more common than chromosomal mutations, the following sections focus on these smaller alterations to the normal genetic sequence.

Base substitution
Base substitutions are the simplest type of gene-level mutation, and they involve the swapping of one nucleotide for another during DNA replication. For example, during replication, a thymine nucleotide might be inserted in place of a guanine nucleotide. With base substitution mutations, only a single nucleotide within a gene sequence is changed, so only one codon is affected (Figure 1).

Figure 1: Only a single codon in the gene sequence is changed in base substitution mutation.

Figure Detail

Although a base substitution alters only a single codon in a gene, it can still have a significant impact on protein production. In fact, depending on the nature of the codon change, base substitutions can lead to three different subcategories of mutations. The first of these subcategories consists of missense mutations, in which the altered codon leads to insertion of an incorrect amino acid into a protein molecule during translation; the second consists of nonsense mutations, in which the altered codon prematurely terminates synthesis of a protein molecule; and the third consists of silent mutations, in which the altered codon codes for the same amino acid as the unaltered codon.


Insertions and deletions

Figure 2: During an insertion mutation, the replicating strand \"slips\" or forms a wrinkle, which causes the extra nucleotide to be incorporated.

Figure Detail
Insertions and deletions are two other types of mutations that can affect cells at the gene level. An insertion mutation occurs when an extra nucleotide is added to the DNA strand during replication. This can happen when the replicating strand "slips," or wrinkles, which allows the extra nucleotide to be incorporated (Figure 2). Strand slippage can also lead to deletion mutations. A deletion mutation occurs when a wrinkle forms on the DNA template strand and subsequently causes a nucleotide to be omitted from the replicated strand (Figure 3).

Figure 3: In a deletion mutation, a wrinkle forms on the DNA template strand, which causes a nucleotide to be omitted from the replicated strand.

Figure Detail


Frameshift mutations

Figure 4: If the number of bases removed or inserted from a segment of DNA is not a multiple of three (a), a different sequence with a different set of reading frames is transcribed to mRNA (b).

Figure Detail
Insertion or deletion of one or more nucleotides during replication can also lead to another type of mutation known as a frameshift mutation. The outcome of a frameshift mutation is complete alteration of the amino acid sequence of a protein. This alteration occurs during translation because ribosomes read the mRNA strand in terms of codons, or groups of three nucleotides. These groups are called the reading frame. Thus, if the number of bases removed from or inserted into a segment of DNA is not a multiple of three (Figure 4a), the reading frame transcribed to the mRNA will be completely changed (Figure 4b). Consequently, once it encounters the mutation, the ribosome will read the mRNA sequence differently, which can result in the production of an entirely different sequence of amino acids in the growing polypeptide chain.
To better understand frameshift mutations, let's consider the analogy of words as codons, and letters within those words as nucleotides. Each word itself has a separate meaning, as each codons represents one amino acid. The following sentence is composed entirely of three-letter words, each representing a three-letter codon:
THE BIG BAD FLY HAD ONE RED EYE AND ONE BLU EYE.
Now, suppose that a mutation eliminates the sixth nucleotide, in this case the letter "G". This deletion means that the letters shift, and the rest of the sentence contains entirely new "words":
THE BIB ADF LYH ADO NER EDE YEA NDO NEB LUE YE.
This error changes the relationship of all nucleotides to each codon, and effectively changes every single codon in the sequence. Consequently, there is a widespread change in the amino acid sequence of the protein. Lets consider an example with an RNA sequence that codes for a sequence of amino acids:
AUG AAA CUU CGC AGG AUG AUG AUG

With the triplet code, the sequence shown in figure 5 corresponds to a protein made of the following amino acids:

Methionine-Lysine-Leucine-Arginine-Arginine-Methionine-Methionine-Methionin

Figure 5: This sequence of mRNA codes for the amino acids methionine-lysine-leucine-arginine-arginine-methionine-methionine-methionine.

Figure Detail


Now, suppose that a mutation occurs during replication, and it results in deletion of the fourth nucleotide in the sequence. When separated into triplet codons, the nucleotide sequence would now read as follows (Figure 6):

AUG AAC UUC GCA GGA UGA UGA UG

This series of codons would encode the following sequence of amino acids:

Methionine-Asparagine-Phenylalanine-Alanine-Glycine-STOP-STOP

Figure 6: If the fourth nucleotide in the sequence is deleted, the reading frame shifts and the amino acid sequence changes to methionine-asparagine-phenylalanine-alanine-glycine-STOP-STOP.

Figure Detail

Each of the stop codons tells the ribosome to terminate protein synthesis at that point. Consequently, the mutant protein is entirely different due to the deletion of the fourth nucleotide, and it is also shorter due to the appearance of a premature stop codon. This mutant protein will be unable to perform its necessary function in the cell.



What causes mutations?

Mutations can arise in cells of all types as a result of a variety of factors, including chance. In fact, some of the mutations discussed above are the result of spontaneous events during replication, and they are thus known as spontaneous mutations. Slippage of the DNA template strand and subsequent insertion of an extra nucleotide is one example of a spontaneous mutation; excess flexibility of the DNA strand and the subsequent mispairing of bases is another.
Environmental exposure to certain chemicals, ultraviolet radiation, or other external factors can also cause DNA to change. These external agents of genetic change are called mutagens. Exposure to mutagens often causes alterations in the molecular structure of nucleotides, ultimately causing substitutions, insertions, and deletions in the DNA sequence.


What are the consequences of mutations?


More on mutation

• The sickle-cell trait: A beneficial mutation

Mutations are a source of genetic diversity in populations, and, as mentioned previously, they can have widely varying individual effects. In some cases, mutations prove beneficial to an organism by making it better able to adapt to environmental factors. In other situations, mutations are harmful to an organism — for instance, they might lead to increased susceptibility to illness or disease. In still other circumstances, mutations are neutral, proving neither beneficial nor detrimental outcomes to an organism. Thus, it is safe to say that the ultimate effects of mutations are as widely varied as the types of mutations themselves.

You should not be talking about mutations.
Epidemiologist do use the word "mutations" when referring to a change that results in a new strain or variation, but they are wrong to use that word.

That is because a mutation is a random event, like radiation, that simply caused a random change in the complex blueprint for the growth of an organism, whether it is RNA or DNA.
And any sort of random change like that almost always caused the organism to no longer be viable at all.
It is nearly impossible for a random change to make an organism stronger, more virulent, etc. and it takes millions of years of accidental trial before one change might be an improvement.

So how do new and more virulent strains come about if not mutation?
New virus variant come about when 2 different viruses infect the same cell and inject their RNA into the same nucleus. That is not a mutation, but really more of a hybrid. The change is not at all random, but a combination of 2 existing and viable RNA chains.
Hybrids happen frequently every day, while mutations take millions of years.

 

[occupied]

Through this whole ordeal watching the right try to comprehend epidemiology has been like watching a Homo Erectus encountering a black monolith. I'm sure the ones who managed to graduate had high school biology. How the hell do you totally forget all that?

I am an extreme leftist, progressive, liberal who understand epidemiology perfectly, and I can tell you that flattening the curve so we could wait for an untested and unnecessary vaccine is murder.

Herd immunity is historically what ended all established epidemics in all of history, such as the 1948 polio epidemic. The Salk vaccine was not available until 1957, after the epidemic was over.
Vaccines prevent future epidemics, not end ones in progress, because they take too long.

Tell me any epidemic in progress that was ended by anything other than herd immunity.
Even SARS, MERS, Hong Kong flu, Asian flu, Avian flu, Ebola, etc., were all ended through herd immunity.

Herd immunity without a vaccine has always meant an appaling number of deaths and a broken health care system. Most of the viruses you mentioned were not actually ended but they are still being held in check through isolation and by virtue of not being particularly contagious.

Herd immunity almost never meant an appalling number of deaths.
That is because herd immunity is similar to total quarantine in working fast.
It relies on local burn out to end the epidemic very quickly.

No virus endemic to humans is ended, and will always keep returning once there are new generations who are not immune. So vaccine are a great idea for them. But covid-19 is not endemic to humans, but to bats, so it is not coming back. So a vaccine for covid-19 is totally and completely useless. And gaining immunity adds risks, as it stresses your immune system more and more.

The highest possible death toll comes from delaying the end of the epidemic through flattening the curve. The longer the epidemic is allowed to stay viable, the wider it spreads and the more will die. A short quick spike of herd immunity results in the fewest deaths.

You are wrong about nearly everything you said.

 

[Rigby5]

Again, this vaccine is dangerous.
Why?
Because in order to cause immunity against covid-19, it has to simulate a covid-19 attack.
And the immune system response to a covid-19 attack is fatal in some people.
There is no way to gain immunity to a virus without making your immune system believe it is being attacked by that virus, and the only deaths from covid-19 are caused by the immune system over responding to a covid-19 attack.
It is not covid-19 that has killed anyone.
It is only their own immune system over response that has killed anyone.
So then the vaccine is as harmful and risky as the actual virus.
It will likely kill the same people who would be killed if infected by the actual virus.
It does not matter that the vaccine is not the actual virus.
Anything that stimulates the immune response is going to potentially be fatal to these susceptible people.

Essala has a point in that if this vaccine instead is trying to directly manipulate the memory of B-cell or T-cells in order to create immunity without the risk of an immune system over reaction, then that would have a whole host of additional dangers. We do not know nearly enough about the immune system to start playing with it like that. The immune system already is one of our biggest dangers these days. For example, fatal allergies, like to peanuts, Lupus, diabetes, HIV, etc., likely did not exist in the past. And it is things we are adding, like DDT, plastics, and other carcinogens, that are hyper stimulating our immune system. And that likely will cause species extinction eventually.

 

[Rigby5]

Through this whole ordeal watching the right try to comprehend epidemiology has been like watching a Homo Erectus encountering a black monolith. I'm sure the ones who managed to graduate had high school biology. How the hell do you totally forget all that?

I am an extreme leftist, progressive, liberal who understand epidemiology perfectly, and I can tell you that flattening the curve so we could wait for an untested and unnecessary vaccine is murder.

Herd immunity is historically what ended all established epidemics in all of history, such as the 1948 polio epidemic. The Salk vaccine was not available until 1957, after the epidemic was over.
Vaccines prevent future epidemics, not end ones in progress, because they take too long.

Tell me any epidemic in progress that was ended by anything other than herd immunity.
Even SARS, MERS, Hong Kong flu, Asian flu, Avian flu, Ebola, etc., were all ended through herd immunity.

Herd immunity without a vaccine has always meant an appaling number of deaths and a broken health care system. Most of the viruses you mentioned were not actually ended but they are still being held in check through isolation and by virtue of not being particularly contagious.

Herd immunity almost never meant an appalling number of deaths.
That is because herd immunity is similar to total quarantine in working fast.
It relies on local burn out to end the epidemic very quickly.

No virus endemic to humans is ended, and will always keep returning once there are new generations who are not immune. So vaccine are a great idea for them. But covid-19 is not endemic to humans, but to bats, so it is not coming back. So a vaccine for covid-19 is totally and completely useless. And gaining immunity adds risks, as it stresses your immune system more and more.

The highest possible death toll comes from delaying the end of the epidemic through flattening the curve. The longer the epidemic is allowed to stay viable, the wider it spreads and the more will die. A short quick spike of herd immunity results in the fewest deaths.

You are wrong about nearly everything you said.

The definition of herd immunity is whenever an epidemic dies out without 100% of the population needing to first become immune, that is herd immunity. So then since you can't vaccinate 100% of the population, all vaccines depend upon herd immunity in order to work.

If you deny herd immunity, then you know nothing at all about epidemiology.
And clearly waiting a year for a vaccine kills 5 times as many people as a quick early spike would in ending it right away.

The estimates of 4 million dead in order to achieve herd immunity with covid-19 are obviously based on mistakes. For example, with wider testing we now know the number of infected is over 5 times what we thought, meaning the death rate for those infected is 5 times lower than we thought.
Then we thought no one had inherent immunity, so 70% would have to be infected and recover in order to become immune. That turned out to be false, and over half the population already starts off inherently immume. Even children seem to all have a very high level of resistance. So only a tiny portion of the population has to gain immunity through infection, in order to achieve herd immunity.
And finally, the death toll of those who do volunteer for variolation, (deliberate infection), would be tiny as long as they are all under 40 or so, and not vulnerable. That reduces death rate by a factor of 40.

 

[Rigby5]

No vaccine ever was or could be safe.
The question instead is whether or not it is safer then the infection?

And in the case of covid-19, it is not endemic to humans, so is not coming back, and therefore the vaccine is far more risky and pointless then the disease, which could easily and quickly have been eradicated by a herd immunity spike in March.