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While America certainly has its share of people in chronic poverty and those with vast wealth, we are an economically mobile society. There are no class or cast systems that might prevent anyone with initiative from bettering their station in life. IRS data tracking the same group of taxpayers between 1999 and 2007 showed that Americans can move from one economic group to another fairly quickly.For example, nearly 60% of taxpayers who began in the lowest income group in 1999, moved to a higher income group by 2007. Conversely, roughly 40% of taxpayers who started out in the highest income group moved to lower income groups within eight years.
Official Statistics on Inequality, the Top 1%, and Redistribution | Tax Foundation
Is your source credible? Afraid not.
By your silence, you can not prove my source is not credible.
You got a reading disability?
Criticisms
The Tax Foundation's annual study that calculate Tax Freedom Days in the United States has been criticized by other think tanks, such as the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities (CBPP)[31] and Citizens for Tax Justice (CTJ),[32] citing repeated "methodological errors" and "reliance on early projections without hard data." CBPP has also criticized other reports by the Tax Foundation,[33][34][35][36][37] and in turn the Tax Foundation has responded or criticized CBPP reports.[38][39][40][41][42] The two groups have some areas of agreement, such as opposition to most tax expenditures[43] and sales tax holidays.[44][45]
US economist Paul Krugman has characterised the Tax Foundation as "not a reliable source" while criticizing a report by the Tax Foundation comparing corporate tax rates in the United States to those in other countries.[46] Krugman has also accused the Tax Foundation of "deliberate fraud" in connection with a report it issued concerning the American Jobs Act.[47]
Do you have a reading disability? The report is based on CBO's Studies.The Tax Foundation is a Rightwing think tank funded by billionaires. Using their research and data would be like using Michael Moore's data. They cherry pick and distort on behalf of the people who fund them. Unlike academic settings where Econ depts feature arguments from multiple sides of the issue, the Tax Foundation ONLY allows research and conclusions that support their tax agenda. They are activists in pursuit of one goal: lower taxes. Research their donor base. I wouldn't trust their data any more than I would trust a Soviet think tank on the Left.
They're citing the upward mobility of poor Americans during a time when Bush put more poor Americans in homes than at any time in history. They're using home values from a corrupt mortgage system/housing bubble to credit poor people with assets that they would later loose during the housing meltdown in 2008, about which they provide no data. By the end of the Bush years, poor and middle class Americans had been bankrupted by the greatest meltdown in the last 70 years. The fact that the study curiously leaves out 2008, a year when all their data is proved to be bubble based, is telling, not to mention all the flawed assumptions that gloss over the debt those same Americans accumulated, a debt that is now strangling the economy.
The reason we can't solve our greatest problems is because we have a generation of talk radio republicans who have been fully captured by propaganda.
You should see the data and finely displayed graphs in Al Gore's climate research. It looks great until you start evaluating the actual data. The fact that OP doesn't show us how this data was collected, or what the research model's assumptions are should tell you that he is another cut-&-paste drone. Be weary of anyone who can't fully and completely explain the conclusions they import from the work of other people.
::snore:: Oh, I'm sorry, were you saying something?
"Blah blah blah, I don't like your source, end of discussion". Here's a thought, dimwit. Show me that people DON'T move between income quintiles, or shut the fuck up. Saying, "Oh, it's right-wing, I win" accomplishes nothing except to tell me you know you're wrong and too much of a chickenshit to admit it.
The data isn't simply about whether upward mobility happens. It's about the fact that it happened from 2000-2007, and the reasons or policies that enabled it. Since you are citing the study, we assume you know how they collected the data, their research methods and the assumptions built into them. So please defend their study rather than cutting and pasting it. Show us you know the particulars so we can have a debate. Otherwise you are just stealing work you don't understand.
Again: please explain what they base their data on. Don't speculate, source it.
And I didn't merely impeach the source, I cited the problems with measuring upward mobility during the greatest bubble of the last 70 years, one that was nearly exclusively driven by lifting up poor people and putting them into higher tax bracket by simply giving them a massive taxable asset.
But we do agree on this. Impeaching the source is bad form. So next time someone shits on the NYT or MSNBC or Michael Moore or Noam Chomsky or any liberal/socialist as slanted or biased, I'm happy that your side will start talking about the actual ideas rather than name calling and liberal bashing. Thanks for finally coming around .
Is your source credible? Afraid not.
By your silence, you can not prove my source is not credible.
You got a reading disability?
Tax Foundation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Criticisms
The Tax Foundation's annual study that calculate Tax Freedom Days in the United States has been criticized by other think tanks, such as the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities (CBPP)[31] and Citizens for Tax Justice (CTJ),[32] citing repeated "methodological errors" and "reliance on early projections without hard data." CBPP has also criticized other reports by the Tax Foundation,[33][34][35][36][37] and in turn the Tax Foundation has responded or criticized CBPP reports.[38][39][40][41][42] The two groups have some areas of agreement, such as opposition to most tax expenditures[43] and sales tax holidays.[44][45]
US economist Paul Krugman has characterised the Tax Foundation as "not a reliable source" while criticizing a report by the Tax Foundation comparing corporate tax rates in the United States to those in other countries.[46] Krugman has also accused the Tax Foundation of "deliberate fraud" in connection with a report it issued concerning the American Jobs Act.[47]
I realize it is wiki but you are welcome to go through all the references you want. And please don't give me any, "Krugman doesn't know what he is talking about if all you know about Krugman is name recognition.
By your silence, you can not prove my source is not credible.
You got a reading disability?
Tax Foundation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Criticisms
The Tax Foundation's annual study that calculate Tax Freedom Days in the United States has been criticized by other think tanks, such as the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities (CBPP)[31] and Citizens for Tax Justice (CTJ),[32] citing repeated "methodological errors" and "reliance on early projections without hard data." CBPP has also criticized other reports by the Tax Foundation,[33][34][35][36][37] and in turn the Tax Foundation has responded or criticized CBPP reports.[38][39][40][41][42] The two groups have some areas of agreement, such as opposition to most tax expenditures[43] and sales tax holidays.[44][45]
US economist Paul Krugman has characterised the Tax Foundation as "not a reliable source" while criticizing a report by the Tax Foundation comparing corporate tax rates in the United States to those in other countries.[46] Krugman has also accused the Tax Foundation of "deliberate fraud" in connection with a report it issued concerning the American Jobs Act.[47]
I realize it is wiki but you are welcome to go through all the references you want. And please don't give me any, "Krugman doesn't know what he is talking about if all you know about Krugman is name recognition.
Let me get this straight. Your sources to prove that the Tax Foundation isn't a reliable source are Paul Krugman and Wikipedia?
Idiot, please. Shut the hell up before you actually hurt yourself.
How can the poor get poorer? If you don't have anything, you cant have less than anything.
According to the Right the CBO is not, unless they agree with them, of course. For example, when the CBO said that the ACA would create jobs the Right insisted the CBO was worthless.Tax Foundation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I realize it is wiki but you are welcome to go through all the references you want. And please don't give me any, "Krugman doesn't know what he is talking about if all you know about Krugman is name recognition.
Let me get this straight. Your sources to prove that the Tax Foundation isn't a reliable source are Paul Krugman and Wikipedia?
Idiot, please. Shut the hell up before you actually hurt yourself.
The Tax Foundation article was based on a CBO Study. Are you going to say that the CBO is not a viable source. You name calling shows how immature you are. Grow up.
Leave it to the party of free market economics to completely ignore market economics when it suits them.
I never thought it would be so hard to convince conservatives that markets matter. It is like they are just waiting to complain about lazy people because their understanding of economics is so simplistic.
Can you please spare us the psycho-babble.
So first you make economics about "personal issues" and then you think others are guilty of "psycho-babble"?
ROFLMAO
So this basic lesson in economics is "incredibly fucking retarded" in your mind. No you are not flailing around at all.
No, in my mind YOU are incredibly fucking retarded, as demonstrated by the fact that you erroneously believe you are giving lessons in basic economics. The only thing I've seen that you're competent in is Vague Meaningless Slogans and Generalities 101.
I did give a lesson in basic economics which you thought was "incredibly fucking retarded" even though it is a fundamental to market theory. See this kind of behavior is common in clueless morons like yourself. All I have to do is present something and I know it will be attacked like I just said something stupid. So I present the foundations of their own political ideology and since you are a blithering idiot you attack it.
You are predictable and stupid. Congratulations on demonstrating it so clearly for me. It was fun. Now go run off and be stupid somewhere else. Kay?
I did give a lesson in basic economics which you thought was "incredibly fucking retarded" even though it is a fundamental to market theory.
Son, you wouldn't grasp basic economics if it bit your clit off.
Quick, explain Says law? Who spoke of the butcher, the brewer, and the baker? What is the broken window theory?
You don't know, you've never had so much as a high school introduction to economics.
See this kind of behavior is common in clueless morons like yourself. All I have to do is present something and I know it will be attacked like I just said something stupid. So I present the foundations of their own political ideology and since you are a blithering idiot you attack it.
You are predictable and stupid. Congratulations on demonstrating it so clearly for me. It was fun. Now go run off and be stupid somewhere else. Kay?
You're a fraud and a blowhard.
LOL
Are you going to trot out any more bits of "economic understanding" conservatives memorize but don't understand?
Scary.....Because deep down inside and at parties with your liberal friends who speak bitterly of those who's wealth and successes make you uncomfortable, you think mob rule and taking by force is a good thing.Capitalism is survival of the fittest.
Reality is the survival of the fittest. Obama tells you what you want to hear, but there is no similarity between his lifestyle, and yours.
Democracy is a word tossed about by jealous looters who think the mob should be able to take by force that which it cannot produce.
The Democracy can use some capitalism for the betterment of its people. Capitalism can use some democracy for the betterment of itself. In the end one will thrive and one will die.
You could use some education, but that will never happen...
So I am one of the jealous looters who thinks the mob should take what it will, or should I say can. Isn't that what you just said was survival of the fittest. Given that we have formed a mob I would think we are the fittest of the fit. If we divide the loot evenly amongst ourselves is that socialism? Have we not proved that socialism is better than capitalism? Now if you excuse me I have to find my bloodied pitchfork around here somewhere.
Here's the answer:
-Raise minimum wage to $23.50/hr. Based on where minimum wage should be using 1970-2013 rise in food, shelter, and transportation.
-Eliminate all business subsidies (deductions/write-offs/write-downs) except for employee expenses which are deducted dollar-for-dollar on all city, state, and Federal taxes and fees.
-Adjust Social Security and private/public retirement and pension payments using 1970-2013 price structure.
-Back down ALL costs, prices, fees, to January 1, 2009 levels and hold them for 10 years.
-Recall ALL off-shore investments tax free, and disallow any further off-shore investments.
Is your source credible? Afraid not.
By your silence, you can not prove my source is not credible.
You got a reading disability?
Tax Foundation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Criticisms
The Tax Foundation's annual study that calculate Tax Freedom Days in the United States has been criticized by other think tanks, such as the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities (CBPP)[31] and Citizens for Tax Justice (CTJ),[32] citing repeated "methodological errors" and "reliance on early projections without hard data." CBPP has also criticized other reports by the Tax Foundation,[33][34][35][36][37] and in turn the Tax Foundation has responded or criticized CBPP reports.[38][39][40][41][42] The two groups have some areas of agreement, such as opposition to most tax expenditures[43] and sales tax holidays.[44][45]
US economist Paul Krugman has characterised the Tax Foundation as "not a reliable source" while criticizing a report by the Tax Foundation comparing corporate tax rates in the United States to those in other countries.[46] Krugman has also accused the Tax Foundation of "deliberate fraud" in connection with a report it issued concerning the American Jobs Act.[47]
I realize it is wiki but you are welcome to go through all the references you want. And please don't give me any, "Krugman doesn't know what he is talking about if all you know about Krugman is name recognition.
Here's the answer:
-Raise minimum wage to $23.50/hr. Based on where minimum wage should be using 1970-2013 rise in food, shelter, and transportation.
-Eliminate all business subsidies (deductions/write-offs/write-downs) except for employee expenses which are deducted dollar-for-dollar on all city, state, and Federal taxes and fees.
-Adjust Social Security and private/public retirement and pension payments using 1970-2013 price structure.
-Back down ALL costs, prices, fees, to January 1, 2009 levels and hold them for 10 years.
-Recall ALL off-shore investments tax free, and disallow any further off-shore investments.
The answer to what? How to complete the economic destruction of the United States? I wasn't aware that we were looking for that.
Here's the answer:
-Raise minimum wage to $23.50/hr. Based on where minimum wage should be using 1970-2013 rise in food, shelter, and transportation.
-Eliminate all business subsidies (deductions/write-offs/write-downs) except for employee expenses which are deducted dollar-for-dollar on all city, state, and Federal taxes and fees.
-Adjust Social Security and private/public retirement and pension payments using 1970-2013 price structure.
-Back down ALL costs, prices, fees, to January 1, 2009 levels and hold them for 10 years.
-Recall ALL off-shore investments tax free, and disallow any further off-shore investments.
The answer to what? How to complete the economic destruction of the United States? I wasn't aware that we were looking for that.
More than the $20 Trillion hit to the US economy and the $563 Trillion hit to the world economy with the derivative debacle brought to you by Phil 'S&L Crises' Gramm (R)?
My plan puts more money back into the pocket of the American people and helps small business.
The answer to what? How to complete the economic destruction of the United States? I wasn't aware that we were looking for that.
More than the $20 Trillion hit to the US economy and the $563 Trillion hit to the world economy with the derivative debacle brought to you by Phil 'S&L Crises' Gramm (R)?
My plan puts more money back into the pocket of the American people and helps small business.
Your plan is "command and control economics"....Never worked. Never will.
Can you please spare us the psycho-babble.
So first you make economics about "personal issues" and then you think others are guilty of "psycho-babble"?
ROFLMAO
The narrative put forward by the left on this 'inequality' nonsense, is not about economics.
Not even close.
Most people who struggle financially do so because of irresponsible spending habits.
Everything is relative. The more people earn the more they spend. Many spend foolishly.
For example, buying expensive cars when a standard one will do just fine. Buying "too much house"....Is it really necessary for two people to buy a 4,000 square foot home?
Using credit cards for everything. Even groceries. HUH?
People who rather than paying their bills on time insist on going out to dinner or other frivolous spending.
$130 pay tv bills because they MUST have premium movies. $100 cell phone when a pay as you go phone will do fine....The list goes on and on.
When on peels back the layers of the onion, most financial problems are the doing of the individual.
You can bruise yourself rolling on the floor, by the way..
I see nothing humorous.
Here's the answer:
-Raise minimum wage to $23.50/hr. Based on where minimum wage should be using 1970-2013 rise in food, shelter, and transportation.
-Eliminate all business subsidies (deductions/write-offs/write-downs) except for employee expenses which are deducted dollar-for-dollar on all city, state, and Federal taxes and fees.
-Adjust Social Security and private/public retirement and pension payments using 1970-2013 price structure.
-Back down ALL costs, prices, fees, to January 1, 2009 levels and hold them for 10 years.
-Recall ALL off-shore investments tax free, and disallow any further off-shore investments.
The answer to what? How to complete the economic destruction of the United States? I wasn't aware that we were looking for that.
More than the $20 Trillion hit to the US economy and the $563 Trillion hit to the world economy with the derivative debacle brought to you by Phil 'S&L Crises' Gramm (R)?
My plan puts more money back into the pocket of the American people and helps small business.
Here's the answer:
-Raise minimum wage to $23.50/hr. Based on where minimum wage should be using 1970-2013 rise in food, shelter, and transportation.
-Eliminate all business subsidies (deductions/write-offs/write-downs) except for employee expenses which are deducted dollar-for-dollar on all city, state, and Federal taxes and fees.
-Adjust Social Security and private/public retirement and pension payments using 1970-2013 price structure.
-Back down ALL costs, prices, fees, to January 1, 2009 levels and hold them for 10 years.
-Recall ALL off-shore investments tax free, and disallow any further off-shore investments.
Tax Foundation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I realize it is wiki but you are welcome to go through all the references you want. And please don't give me any, "Krugman doesn't know what he is talking about if all you know about Krugman is name recognition.
Let me get this straight. Your sources to prove that the Tax Foundation isn't a reliable source are Paul Krugman and Wikipedia?
Idiot, please. Shut the hell up before you actually hurt yourself.
The Tax Foundation article was based on a CBO Study. Are you going to say that the CBO is not a viable source. You name calling shows how immature you are. Grow up.
Not people I know. Examples of the irresponsible things people do with their finances.So first you make economics about "personal issues" and then you think others are guilty of "psycho-babble"?
ROFLMAO
The narrative put forward by the left on this 'inequality' nonsense, is not about economics.
Not even close.
Most people who struggle financially do so because of irresponsible spending habits.
Everything is relative. The more people earn the more they spend. Many spend foolishly.
For example, buying expensive cars when a standard one will do just fine. Buying "too much house"....Is it really necessary for two people to buy a 4,000 square foot home?
Using credit cards for everything. Even groceries. HUH?
People who rather than paying their bills on time insist on going out to dinner or other frivolous spending.
$130 pay tv bills because they MUST have premium movies. $100 cell phone when a pay as you go phone will do fine....The list goes on and on.
When on peels back the layers of the onion, most financial problems are the doing of the individual.
You can bruise yourself rolling on the floor, by the way..
I see nothing humorous.
The discussion is about markets not about the personal finances of random people you know.
If you have anything to say about the changes in markets that have lead to growing income inequality then I will be happy to respond.
Until then....
ROFLMAO
