The Right To Bear Arms

[sealybobo]

Your Second Amendment rights are not unlimited — never have been and never will be – Applesauce - Rockford, IL - Rockford Register Star

Well regulated militia

The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home

how do you not know this?

What about when I go out. Why can't I take my gun with me?

I can.

Because you went through the regulations and got a ccw permit. You shouldn't have to do that to carry your gun. I don't want to go through the hassle just to take a gun to and from my hunting property.

The fact you can or can't has no place here. All that tells me is you accept that regulation. I'm finding many Republicans are ok with certain gun regulations. So not all regulations are bad. Got it.

 

[sealybobo]

Your Second Amendment rights are not unlimited — never have been and never will be – Applesauce - Rockford, IL - Rockford Register Star

Well regulated militia

The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home

how do you not know this?

What about when I go out. Why can't I take my gun with me?

I can.

Permitless concealed carry
Legislation pending in the MI Senate Government Operations Committee would let Michigan gun owners carry concealed weapons without needing a concealed weapon permit.

The bills are sponsored by Republican Reps. Michele Hoitenga, R-Manton; Pamela Hornberger, R-Chesterfield Twp.; Sue Allor, R-Wolverine; and Triston Cole, R-Mancelona.

"It is currently legal in the state of Michigan for a law-abiding person to openly carry a firearm on their person without any training classes, fees or state bureaucracy," said Hoitenga. "It only becomes illegal when a person puts on a coat, because the gun then becomes concealed. One millimeter of clothing makes the difference between a criminal act and a legal act."


Eliminating pistol registration
Rep. Lee Chatfield’s house bill 4554 would eliminate the requirement that Michiganders register their pistols.

Michigan is one of only six states to require registration, Chatfield said earlier this year.

“Criminals don't register handguns they misuse for wrong, so what we end up with is a list that intrudes on the civil liberties of honest gun owners exercising their constitutional right to defend their families," Chatfield said.

The bill is pending in the House Judiciary Committee.

Read more about the bill here.


Republicans got none of this done before the Republican governor left office. All talk.

 

[M14 Shooter]

What about when I go out. Why can't I take my gun with me?

I can.

Because you went through the regulations and got a ccw permit. You shouldn't have to do that to carry your gun.

Nope. Open carry has always been legal in my state.

The fact you can or can't has no place here

It does - it illustrates the limits you live under are a failure of the people of your state to elect the right people.

 

[Rustic]

Careful using MAGA. Are you aware where that came from in 2014? Trump saw it laying around and said, "I think I'll use that". It's in the Mueller report.

Well it should have come from a liberal progressive socialist democrat who is pro union and pro new deal. Pro labor laws and pensions. Pro social security, Medicare and affordable healthcare for all.

This is the time period when America was great. Liberal policies created a middle class never seen before.

The rich fought back. They started winning when Reagan conned America. Then gw bush. Then trump. The middle class is doomed

If you read the Mueller report you would know where it came from and wouldn't be touting it. At least they got the color of the hat right.

But I do want to make America great again. Return it to we the people.

The corporations don’t know best, we the people do. Government isn’t the enemy. It needs to be taken back from them though.

Government is the enemy

It’s your government fool. It’s been taken over by the rich fool. Stupid sucker

Lol
The deep state controls the government

 

[sealybobo]

What about when I go out. Why can't I take my gun with me?

I can.

Because you went through the regulations and got a ccw permit. You shouldn't have to do that to carry your gun.

Nope. Open carry has always been legal in my state.

The fact you can or can't has no place here

It does - it illustrates the limits you live under are a failure of the people of your state to elect the right people.

Yes, the Republicans failed us.

Or, is it common sense. Do Michiganders want all the people in Detroit carrying around guns without getting CCW's? Nope.

What state allows you to conceal carry without a CCW?

 

[sealybobo]

What about when I go out. Why can't I take my gun with me?

I can.

Because you went through the regulations and got a ccw permit. You shouldn't have to do that to carry your gun.

Nope. Open carry has always been legal in my state.

The fact you can or can't has no place here

It does - it illustrates the limits you live under are a failure of the people of your state to elect the right people.

Found it

Seven states — Maine, Arizona, Kansas, Wyoming, Alaska, Vermont, and now Missouri — do not require a permit to carry a concealed handgun within their borders.

 

[M14 Shooter]

What about when I go out. Why can't I take my gun with me?

I can.

Because you went through the regulations and got a ccw permit. You shouldn't have to do that to carry your gun.

Nope. Open carry has always been legal in my state.

The fact you can or can't has no place here

It does - it illustrates the limits you live under are a failure of the people of your state to elect the right people.

Yes, the Republicans failed us.

No. You failed you.

What state allows you to conceal carry without a CCW?

Constitutional carry - Wikipedia

 

[Rustic]

What about when I go out. Why can't I take my gun with me?

I can.

Because you went through the regulations and got a ccw permit. You shouldn't have to do that to carry your gun.

Nope. Open carry has always been legal in my state.

The fact you can or can't has no place here

It does - it illustrates the limits you live under are a failure of the people of your state to elect the right people.

Found it

Seven states — Maine, Arizona, Kansas, Wyoming, Alaska, Vermont, and now Missouri — do not require a permit to carry a concealed handgun within their borders.

South Dakota now allows concealed handguns to be carried without a permit - CNN

 

[sealybobo]

What about when I go out. Why can't I take my gun with me?

I can.

Because you went through the regulations and got a ccw permit. You shouldn't have to do that to carry your gun.

Nope. Open carry has always been legal in my state.

The fact you can or can't has no place here

It does - it illustrates the limits you live under are a failure of the people of your state to elect the right people.

Seven states — Maine, Arizona, Kansas, Wyoming, Alaska, Vermont, and now Missouri — do not require a permit to carry a concealed handgun within their borders.

South Dakota now allows concealed handguns to be carried without a permit - CNN

Wow. I never thought it would pass. Maybe there is hope here for Michigan.

Seven states — Maine, Arizona, Kansas, Wyoming, Alaska, Vermont, and now Missouri — do not require a permit to carry a concealed handgun within their borders.

So S. Dakota makes it 8?

This is like the legalized pot wave sweeping the country. I love it.

 

[Rustic]

I can.

Because you went through the regulations and got a ccw permit. You shouldn't have to do that to carry your gun.

Nope. Open carry has always been legal in my state.

The fact you can or can't has no place here

It does - it illustrates the limits you live under are a failure of the people of your state to elect the right people.

Seven states — Maine, Arizona, Kansas, Wyoming, Alaska, Vermont, and now Missouri — do not require a permit to carry a concealed handgun within their borders.

South Dakota now allows concealed handguns to be carried without a permit - CNN

Wow. I never thought it would pass. Maybe there is hope here for Michigan.

Seven states — Maine, Arizona, Kansas, Wyoming, Alaska, Vermont, and now Missouri — do not require a permit to carry a concealed handgun within their borders.

So S. Dakota makes it 8?

This is like the legalized pot wave sweeping the country. I love it.

“Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Idaho, Kansas, Maine, Mississippi, Missouri, New Hampshire, North Dakota, Vermont, West Virginia and Wyoming also do not require a permit to carry a concealed weapon, the National Rifle Association and the National Conference of State Legislatures said”

 

[watchingfromafar]

/——/ Until the USSC rules they aren’t unConstitutional we sure can make that claim. It’s called the 1st Amendment

What does that have to do with guns-?

First Amendment to the United States Constitution
The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution prevents the government from making laws which respect an establishment of religion, prohibit the free exercise of religion, or abridge the freedom of speech, the freedom of the press, the right to peaceably assemble, or the right to petition the government for redress of grievances. It was adopted on December 15, 1791, as one of the ten amendments that constitute the Bill of Rights.
First Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia

What does this have to do with guns-?

Just asking -

I believe trump would like to take away all the above if he could which I believe he believes he can and sadly, will in due time

Just saying -

 

[watchingfromafar]

also do not require a permit to carry a concealed weapon, the National Rifle Association and the National Conference of State Legislatures said”

Gun Control Is as Old as the Old West
Contrary to the popular imagination, bearing arms on the frontier was a heavily regulated business

It's October 26, 1881, in Tombstone, and Arizona is not yet a state. The O.K. Corral is quiet, and it's had an unremarkable existence for the two years it's been standing—although it's about to become famous.

Marshall Virgil Earp, having deputized his brothers Wyatt and Morgan and his pal Doc Holliday, is having a gun control problem. Long-running tensions between the lawmen and a faction of cowboys – represented this morning by Billy Claiborne, the Clanton brothers, and the McLaury brothers – will come to a head over Tombstone's gun law.

The laws of Tombstone at the time required visitors, upon entering town to disarm, either at a hotel or a lawman's office.

Gun Control Is as Old as the Old West
Contrary to the popular imagination, bearing arms on the frontier was a heavily regulated business

image: https://thumbs-prod.si-cdn.com/7hLl651LYAFdrPD6uJnBbRi1Rj8=/800x600/filters:no_upscale()/https://public-media.si-cdn.com/filer/da/bc/dabc3b99-f221-4392-8e0a-a3b3f3d98af5/wright1913_dodge_city_in_1878_14782835852.jpg

The “Old West” conjures up all sorts of imagery, but broadly, the term is used to evoke life among the crusty prospectors, threadbare gold panners, madams of brothels, and six-shooter-packing cowboys in small frontier towns – such as Tombstone, Deadwood, Dodge City, or Abilene, to name a few. One other thing these cities had in common: strict gun control laws.

Laws regulating ownership and carry of firearms, apart from the U.S. Constitution's Second Amendment, were passed at a local level rather than by Congress. “Gun control laws were adopted pretty quickly in these places,” says Winkler. “Most were adopted by municipal governments exercising self-control and self-determination.”

Carrying any kind of weapon, guns or knives, was not allowed other than outside town borders and inside the home. When visitors left their weapons with a law officer upon entering town, they'd receive a token, like a coat check, which they'd exchange for their guns when leaving town.

The practice was started in Southern states, which were among the first to enact laws against concealed carry of guns and knives, in the early 1800s. -- The Battle Over the Right to Bear Arms in America, points to an 1840 Alabama court that, in upholding its state ban, ruled it was a state's right to regulate where and how a citizen could carry, and that the state constitution's allowance of personal firearms “is not to bear arms upon all occasions and in all places.”

Contrary to the popular imagination, bearing arms on the frontier was a heavily regulated business

image: https://thumbs-prod.si-cdn.com/7hLl651LYAFdrPD6uJnBbRi1Rj8=/800x600/filters:no_upscale()/https://public-media.si-cdn.com/filer/da/bc/dabc3b99-f221-4392-8e0a-a3b3f3d98af5/wright1913_dodge_city_in_1878_14782835852.jpg

Dodge City in 1878 (Wikimedia Commons)

It's October 26, 1881, in Tombstone, and Arizona
The laws of Tombstone at the time required visitors, upon entering town to disarm, either at a hotel or a lawman's office. (Residents of many famed cattle towns, such as Dodge City, Abilene, and Deadwood, had similar restrictions.)
image: https://public-media.si-cdn.com/fil...d-4fac-8fc0-7ff859b10f21/mclauriesclanton.jpg

"Tombstone had much more restrictive laws on carrying guns in public in the 1880s than it has today,” says Adam Winkler, a professor and specialist in American constitutional law at UCLA School of Law. “Today, you're allowed to carry a gun without a license or permit on Tombstone streets. Back in the 1880s, you weren't.” Same goes for most of the New West, to varying degrees, in the once-rowdy frontier towns of Nevada, Kansas, Montana, and South Dakota.

Dodge City, Kansas, formed a municipal government in 1878. According to Stephen Aron, a professor of history at UCLA, the first law passed was one prohibiting the carry of guns in town, likely by civic leaders and influential merchants who wanted people to move there, invest their time and resources, and bring their families. Cultivating a reputation of peace and stability was necessary, even in boisterous towns, if it were to become anything more transient than a one-industry boom town.

Laws regulating ownership and carry of firearms, apart from the U.S. Constitution's Second Amendment, were passed at a local level rather than by Congress. “Gun control laws were adopted pretty quickly in these places,” says Winkler. “Most were adopted by municipal governments exercising self-control and self-determination.” Carrying any kind of weapon, guns or knives, was not allowed other than outside town borders and inside the home. When visitors left their weapons with a law officer upon entering town, they'd receive a token, like a coat check, which they'd exchange for their guns when leaving town.

Louisiana, too, upheld an early ban on concealed carry firearms. When a Kentucky court reversed its ban, the state constitution was amended to specify the Kentucky general assembly was within its rights to, in the future, regulate or prohibit concealed carry.

Still, Winkler says, it was an affirmation that regulation was compatible with the Second Amendment. The federal government of the 1800s largely stayed out of gun-law court battles.

“People were allowed to own guns, and everyone did own guns [in the West], for the most part,” says Winkler. “Having a firearm to protect yourself in the lawless wilderness from wild animals, hostile native tribes, and outlaws was a wise idea. But when you came into town, you had to either check your guns if you were a visitor or keep your guns at home if you were a resident.”

Published in 1903, Andy Adams’s Log of a Cowboy, a “slightly fictionalized” account of the author’s life on the cattle trails of the 1880s, was a refutation against the myth-making dime store novels of the day. The book, which included stories about lawless cowboys visiting Dodge City firing into the air to shoot out lights, has been called the most realistic written account of cowboy life and is still in print today.

Gun Control Is as Old as the Old West | History | Smithsonian

Did the Wild West Have More Gun Control Than We Do Today?
A check? That’s right. When you entered a frontier town, you were legally required to leave your guns at the stables on the outskirts of town or drop them off with the sheriff, who would give you a token in exchange. You checked your guns then like you’d check your overcoat today at a Boston restaurant in winter. Visitors were welcome, but their guns were not.

While people were allowed to have guns at home for self-protection, frontier towns usually barred anyone but law enforcement from carrying guns in public.

When Dodge City residents organized their municipal government, do you know what the very first law they passed was? A gun control law. They declared that “any person or persons found carrying concealed weapons in the city of Dodge or violating the laws of the State shall be dealt with according to law.” Many frontier towns, including Tombstone, Arizona—the site of the infamous “Shootout at the OK Corral”—also barred the carrying of guns openly.

Today in Tombstone, you don’t even need a permit to carry around a firearm. Gun rights advocates are pushing lawmakers in state after state to do away with nearly all limits on the ability of people to have guns in public.

Like any law regulating things that are small and easy to conceal, the gun control of the Wild West wasn’t always perfectly enforced. But statistics show that, next to drunk and disorderly conduct, the most common cause of arrest was illegally carrying a firearm. Sheriffs and marshals took gun control seriously.
Did the Wild West Have More Gun Control Than We Do Today? | HuffPost

Illinois town bans assault weapons, will fine those who keep them

The town of Deerfield, Ill., has moved to ban assault weapons, including the AR-15 used in the school shooting in Parkland, Florida, claiming the measure will make the town more safe from mass shootings.

The ordinance was passed unanimously Monday by the Deerfield Village Board. It states the move is in the best interest of public health and will spur a culture change toward "the normative value that assault weapons should have no role or purpose in civil society."

It also takes a swing at a popular reading of the Second Amendment, stating the weapons are "not reasonably necessary to protect an individual's right of self-defense" or to preserve a well-regulated militia.

Illinois town bans assault weapons, will fine those who keep them

Chicago suburb bans assault weapons in response to Parkland shooting
With the future of federal gun control legislation uncertain, an affluent Chicago suburb this week took the aggressive step of banning assault weapons within its borders, in what local officials said was a direct response to the mass shooting at a Parkland, Fla., high school earlier this year.

Officials in Deerfield, Ill., unanimously approved the ordinance, which prohibits the possession, manufacture or sale of a range of firearms, as well as large-capacity magazines. Residents of the 19,000-person village have until June 13 to remove the guns from village limits or face up to $1,000 per day in fines.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...hooting/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.95db16134355

Seattle will require gun owners to lock up their firearms, after the City Council voted unanimously Monday to pass legislation proposed by Mayor Jenny Durkan.

Starting 180 days after Durkan signs the legislation, it will be a civil infraction to store a gun without the firearm being secured in a locked container.

The legislation will apply only to guns kept somewhere, rather than those carried by or under the control of their owners.

Also under the legislation, it will be a civil infraction when an owner knows or should know that a minor, “at-risk person” or unauthorized user is likely to access a gun and such a person actually does access the weapon.

The legislation allows fines up to $500 when a gun isn’t locked up, up to $1,000 when a prohibited person accesses a firearm and up to $10,000 when a prohibited person uses the weapon to hurt someone or commit a crime.
Gun owners face fines up to $10,000 for not locking up their guns under new Seattle law

The above was good gun control laws.
Why/how all the above was abolished; puzzles the mind -

 

[Lakhota]

Why is the shady NRA tax-exempt?

NRA In Chaos As Wayne LaPierre Is Reportedly Asked To Resign

 

[Lakhota]

The NRA is in deep shit.

BLACKMAIL AND BALLISTICS: THE NRA IN TURMOIL

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Why is the shady NRA tax-exempt?

NRA In Chaos As Wayne LaPierre Is Reportedly Asked To Resign

"The National Rifle Association is in turmoil amid allegations that Oliver North, recently installed as the gun lobbying organization’s president, threatened to release damaging..."

The NRA is not the lobbying organization. That is a separate entity.

HuffPo fucking sucks at news.

 

[Lakhota]

Why is the shady NRA tax-exempt?

NRA In Chaos As Wayne LaPierre Is Reportedly Asked To Resign

"The National Rifle Association is in turmoil amid allegations that Oliver North, recently installed as the gun lobbying organization’s president, threatened to release damaging..."

The NRA is not the lobbying organization. That is a separate entity.

HuffPo fucking sucks at news.

Bullshit. It's all under the NRA umbrella.

Is the NRA an educational organization? A lobby group? A nonprofit? A media outlet? Yes

 

[danielpalos]

What about when I go out. Why can't I take my gun with me?

I can.

Because you went through the regulations and got a ccw permit. You shouldn't have to do that to carry your gun.

Nope. Open carry has always been legal in my state.

The fact you can or can't has no place here

It does - it illustrates the limits you live under are a failure of the people of your state to elect the right people.

Found it

Seven states — Maine, Arizona, Kansas, Wyoming, Alaska, Vermont, and now Missouri — do not require a permit to carry a concealed handgun within their borders.

South Dakota now allows concealed handguns to be carried without a permit - CNN

This is a simple exercise of the Traditional police power of a State and has nothing to do with our Second Amendment:

SECTION 22. RIGHT TO ARMS
Subject only to the police power, the right of the individual citizen to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. (Source: Illinois Constitution.)

 

[Lakhota]

Sounds like the shady NRA gun mafia is in deep shit.

ROILED NRA STICKS TO ITS GUNS

 

[M14 Shooter]

Sounds like the shady NRA gun mafia is in deep shit.

ROILED NRA STICKS TO ITS GUNS

No one cares what you think...

 

[g5000]

The NRA is eating its own.

Crooked Oliver North is out.