The Situation in the Ukraine

[Autodidact_33]

Dispute Between The West and Russia











In Eastern Europe is a small nation named the Ukraine; this country now has become the epicenter of a dispute between global powers and has led to a worsening of relations between both the European Union and Russia with America being on the side of the alliance of European nations. In the Ukraine, simmering tensions have manifested between the people as to what faction they are going to be in closer relations with; being forced to choose between either NATO or continue with their older close relationship with Russia. Over the past couple years this worsening situation has brought about a Russian military maneuver in the nation of Crimea and the West imposing trade sanctions on Russia which will have a rather significant effect negatively on the Russian economy. In the past months, more trade sanctions have been imposed on the nation of Russia while Russia is forging a closer alliance with its old Cold War ally, the economically powerful China. This dispute over the destiny of the small nation of the Ukraine has now pulled into it some of the most powerful nations on earth. As with many disputes between nations; there is the usual saber rattling which has culminated with NATO military exercises in Eastern Europe and Russian nuclear bombers doing maneuvers near the nation of America. There has not been an international crisis of this magnitude between the Western world and Russia since the Cold War. A disagreement over a small nation has led to a situation where open conflict between militarily powerful nations may be within the realm of plausibility; nations which weld weapons which are infinitely terrifying and capable of unimaginable destructive potential. And it seems that this situation will not be resolved until one side backs down; which either side may be incapable of since it would make powerful nations to appear weak which no nation can risk being perceived as. Relations seem to get worse over time between these factions; and trade sanctions only lead to economic hardship on entire nations which may only ensure that the sentiment between the ordinary people on both sides will only get worse.

But this is not a dispute in truth about the future of these powerful nations; but in reality is really about the future of the Ukraine. Since both sides in the dispute govern themselves democratically; I would say it should be up to the Ukraine and its people to decide their own fate. Perhaps, if this has been not done already, the leader of the Ukraine should call for a referendum where it would be for the Ukrainians to decide which faction in this dispute they will side with; and any decision they make to be respected by the factions involved here.

Open conflict between the nations of both sides creates a terrifying scenario; where the entire civilizations of these nations being reduced to rubble and ash within a few hours. Is this dispute over the destiny of a small nation really worth risking the fate of all of humanity?

 

[Stratford57]

Being under the total external control from Washington, Ukraine is celebrating Independence day today. Absurd? Yes. However the life in Ukraine after the coup is based on absurd, only absurd and nothing but absurd.

All the news about contemporary Ukraine should start with the words: "Against all the common sense..."

 

[Sonc]

Perhaps, if this has been not done already, the leader of the Ukraine should call for a referendum

I have bad English, but I'll try to explain.

It's a good idea.
I am sure that what I say will be a surprise for you, but a number of politicians (Ukrainian) and journalists voiced this idea... but...
In the best case it ends like this
Ukrainian parliament 0:50
She said
The power that bombing peaceful cities - criminal.
Power that deprives children of the right to education - is criminal.



In the worst case ...

He also suggested that peaceful dialogue and the referendum.

I do not think your news talked about it. Airtime were employed NEWS "Puin shot down the plane," "evil empire coming," and similar waste.

 

[Sonc]

Ukraine is celebrating Independence day

Independence from pensions =)
What pension now in Ukraine? 60 euros?

 

[Sbiker]

Dispute Between The West and Russia

In Eastern Europe is a small nation named the Ukraine; this country now has become the epicenter of a dispute between global powers and has led to a worsening of relations between both the European Union and Russia with America being on the side of the alliance of European nations. In the Ukraine, simmering tensions have manifested between the people as to what faction they are going to be in closer relations with; being forced to choose between either NATO or continue with their older close relationship with Russia. Over the past couple years this worsening situation has brought about a Russian military maneuver in the nation of Crimea and the West imposing trade sanctions on Russia which will have a rather significant effect negatively on the Russian economy. In the past months, more trade sanctions have been imposed on the nation of Russia while Russia is forging a closer alliance with its old Cold War ally, the economically powerful China. This dispute over the destiny of the small nation of the Ukraine has now pulled into it some of the most powerful nations on earth. As with many disputes between nations; there is the usual saber rattling which has culminated with NATO military exercises in Eastern Europe and Russian nuclear bombers doing maneuvers near the nation of America. There has not been an international crisis of this magnitude between the Western world and Russia since the Cold War. A disagreement over a small nation has led to a situation where open conflict between militarily powerful nations may be within the realm of plausibility; nations which weld weapons which are infinitely terrifying and capable of unimaginable destructive potential. And it seems that this situation will not be resolved until one side backs down; which either side may be incapable of since it would make powerful nations to appear weak which no nation can risk being perceived as. Relations seem to get worse over time between these factions; and trade sanctions only lead to economic hardship on entire nations which may only ensure that the sentiment between the ordinary people on both sides will only get worse.

But this is not a dispute in truth about the future of these powerful nations; but in reality is really about the future of the Ukraine. Since both sides in the dispute govern themselves democratically; I would say it should be up to the Ukraine and its people to decide their own fate. Perhaps, if this has been not done already, the leader of the Ukraine should call for a referendum where it would be for the Ukrainians to decide which faction in this dispute they will side with; and any decision they make to be respected by the factions involved here.

Open conflict between the nations of both sides creates a terrifying scenario; where the entire civilizations of these nations being reduced to rubble and ash within a few hours. Is this dispute over the destiny of a small nation really worth risking the fate of all of humanity?

It's a good question, unfotunately not a rhetoric at this time...

At first, Ukraine at now - is not a small nation, even at European sight - it has population more than Canada and Greece, similar with Spain. So, up the current time it had a great industrial and consumer potential (but much of industries were binded with Russia). At the begin of Ukraine crisis it was tidbit in economics both to Russia and EU.

At second, Ukraine has strategic position in NATO vs Russia opposition - similar to Canada for US (and Crimea like Alaska). Imagine, one of US presidents gives to Canada gift of Alaska, and then Russia puts billion dollars to grow anti-US moods in perspective of "soft occupation" of Canada to make a GMD almost useless. So, Russia now de-facto in situation of real threat of life and while the world news call Putin as "militarist" and "aggressor", much of russian people are angry because of Putin's soft and indecisive politics, instead of it's real rationality.

At third, Ukraine historically - is synthetic creature. It started as anti-russian project in Austro-Vengrian empire and continues existence at this role. So, the division of "Russian" and "Ukrainian" at Ukraine territory is not by nationality, not by language or any objective criteria, only by IDEOLOGY. By history and nationality all whole population of Ukraine are Russian. It means, at whole territory of Ukraine, in each region about 60-90% of Russian and about 40-10% of ideologically-based, anti-russian "Ukrainians". So, without pressure, physical repressions and ideological brainwashing techs, which currently used at Ukraine, the results of referendum is almost predictable.

Ok, but if Ukraine becomes part of Russia by any legal way - what can we do with 10% of ideologic anti-russians extremists? 10% of Ukrainian is about 4 million. To kill them all by colonial recipe of British Empire? Now is not a 19th century. To send them to Siberia in analog of GULAG? It's a serious expences, which Russian economics dont' need. What we can do else with territory, where every tenth people is potential anti-russian extremist?

That's reason, Putin dont' want to have deal with internal Ukrainian problems, at least being single. EU is making poker face and doing nothing. US is playing with fascists and don't mind, what's the fascism is really is, even with experience with interracial conflicts...

So, as I see, now Russia, EU and US all trying to make Ukrainian conflict as internal deal, but for different targets and by different ways... and Ukrainian administration, on the contrary, tries to inflate ukrainian reality outside...

P.S. Face of "Ukrainianity":

 

[waltky]

Russia’s huge military casualties in Ukraine...

Russia Accidentally Reveals Its Massive Ukraine Body Count
8/26/2015 - Though Russia denies official involvement in Ukraine’s civil war, a Russian news site briefly reported Russia’s huge military casualties in Ukraine Tuesday.

Buried in a mundane report on army salaries, Delovaya Zhizn (Business Life) noted that family compensation went to the families of 2,000 soldiers killed “taking part in military action in Ukraine.” The information was briefly online before Russian censors detected the fact and took it offline — but not before a Ukraine-based news site detected the admission and cached it online.

That some 2,000 Russian service members have died, all fighting a war that the Kremlin does not acknowledge exists, is a staggering admission of President Vladimir Putin’s commitment to the conflict in eastern Ukraine. The Ukrainian war has lasted for exactly 18 months — by comparison, the U.S.’ nearly 14-year involvement in Afghanistan has claimed the lives of 2,154 American soldiers.

Besides the toll on Ukrainian and Russian fighters’ lives, the Russian intervention has also inflamed sanctions against Russia from European and North American governments. In response, Russia has embargoed food imports from a long list of Western countries, prompting a grocery crisis for Russian shoppers. Forbes, which broke the story in English, pointed out that Putin recently declared all Russian military casualties, in wartime and peacetime alike, to be government-protected “state secrets.”

Boris Nemtsov, a former Russian lawmaker, was assassinated early this year while working on a report documenting Russian involvement in Ukraine. Besides suppressing the results of Nemtsov’s work, the Russian government has made efforts to downplay the investigation of the assassination. In another sign of Putin’s stranglehold on information in Russia, Russian authorities moved on Monday to ban all of Wikipedia in the country — a move that was later walked back.

Read more: Russia Accidentally Reveals Its Massive Ukraine Body Count

See also:

Russian Muslims Traveling To Fight Against Russia’s Ukraine Invasion
7/22/2015 - For more than a year, Chechens, Muslims from southwestern Russia, have been fighting on both sides of Ukraine’s struggle against Russian occupation. The undeniably frank reason one anti-Russia militiaman recently gave The New York Times? “We always fight the Russians.”

The Chechens have had a long and tense relationship with Russia’s central government, alternatively fighting for independence and courting special favor from the rulers in Moscow. When Russia annexed the Ukrainian territory of Crimea in March 2014, it once again gave Chechens a reason to push back against Russian overreach. Chechnya is more than 600 miles away from Ukraine. So for Chechens to be traveling there at all, and hoping to settle their grudges, is surprising. As early as May 2014, Chechen fighters were appearing on both sides of the fight in Ukraine. President Vladimir Putin’s hand-picked head of Chechnya, Ramzan Kadyrov, has denied any pro-Russian involvement by his own Chechen forces. But fighters on the ground claimed that they were, in fact, acting on Kadyrov’s orders.

On the other side a battalion of volunteers, many of them veterans of Chechen-Russian conflicts taking back to the 1990s, are trying to keep Ukraine free of the Russian-backed rebels that control significant parts of the country. Besides the annexation of the Crimea to Russia, the rebels have also self-declared the “Donetsk People’s Republic” in eastern Ukraine, where everything from mailboxes to money are starting to resemble Russia. According to Time Magazine, one of the first Chechen commanders in Ukraine was a rogue general, Isa Munaev, whose grudge with Russia dates back to Putin’s forceful crackdown on pro-independence fighters in 2000. Exiled in Denmark since 2006, Munaev saw Putin’s incursion into Ukraine as a perfect opportunity for revenge.

Just weeks after the conflict began, as Time puts it, “Munaev arrived in Ukraine’s capital, Kiev, with his suitcase of Chechen flags and patches.” He died in battle in February. Besides the Chechens, the Ukrainian side has been forced to accept uncomfortable allegiances with anti-Russia militias that open embrace neo-Nazi imagery. Like the Muslim volunteers, these groups (which bear such names as “Right Sector” and “the Azov Group”) operate independently of the Ukrainian military or its American advisors.

But the more colorful warriors don’t bother the Chechens. The fighter who told The New York Times that “we like to fight the Russians” shrugged his shoulders when asked about the fascists. They get along just fine, he said, “because, like him, they love their homeland and hate the Russians.”

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2015/07/22/r...ainst-russias-ukraine-invasion/#ixzz3kQy0R6tS

 

[Toro]

Russia is trying to dominate the Ukraine, and is making up propaganda about "Nazis" as justification for their naked aggression.

Russia has a long history of conquest and aggression against its neighbors. Ukraine is no different.

 

[Sonc]

This is a prime example of how propaganda is easy to deceive people.

Boris Nemtsov, a former Russian lawmaker
30 years of living in Russia. Always thought that the Nemcov, asshole - like a man
loser - as a politician
... But the Americans opened my eyes =))
We lost a great man. Patriot. My heart grieves.

That some 2,000 Russian service members have died,
It's funny =)

Russian Muslims Traveling To Fight Against Russia’s Ukraine Invasion
This is a terrorist. They captured the school in Beslan. Concert hall.
If they are at war with us ... so we do everything correctly.

The Chechen people are divided into clans. (teips).
These Chechens kill Chechens.
According to this when they come to Ukraine to fight against the Russian ...
In Ukraine, arrived other Chechens to fight against them.


Смерть (батальон) — Википедия

That's funny. You wrote lies about the ban on Wikipedia.
Did you know that Wikipedia does not have a lot of information in English?

 

[Sbiker]

Russia is trying to dominate the Ukraine, and is making up propaganda about "Nazis" as justification for their naked aggression.

Russia has a long history of conquest and aggression against its neighbors. Ukraine is no different.

"US have a long history, full of glory and victories, and now trying to conquer ... Somali" ))))

For what purpose Russia have to take Ukraine, if it has fully broken economics and giant debts to IMF? Let Ukraine to continue course "to become a Europa" and insert letter U to PIGS

 

[Sbiker]

This is a prime example of how propaganda is easy to deceive people.

Boris Nemtsov, a former Russian lawmaker
30 years of living in Russia. Always thought that the Nemcov, asshole - like a man
loser - as a politician
... But the Americans opened my eyes =))
We lost a great man. Patriot. My heart grieves.

That some 2,000 Russian service members have died,
It's funny =)

Russian Muslims Traveling To Fight Against Russia’s Ukraine Invasion
This is a terrorist. They captured the school in Beslan. Concert hall.
If they are at war with us ... so we do everything correctly.

The Chechen people are divided into clans. (teips).
These Chechens kill Chechens.
According to this when they come to Ukraine to fight against the Russian ...
In Ukraine, arrived other Chechens to fight against them.


Смерть (батальон) — Википедия

That's funny. You wrote lies about the ban on Wikipedia.
Did you know that Wikipedia does not have a lot of information in English?

Ha-ha, do you believe in "Russian Muslims" at Ukrainian side? Relax, almost all of them aren't Chechen or Tatar, it's political correct term for all ISIS mercenaries at the Nazi side.

ISIS-Aligned Fighters in Ukraine Battle alongside Neo-Nazis

ISIS in Ukraine by Justin Raimondo -- Antiwar.com