The Skeptics Speak

SAYIT

Diamond Member
Feb 26, 2012
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Criticism of 9/11 CTs and those who promote them:

9/11 conspiracy theories - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thomas W. Eagar, an engineering professor at MIT, suggested they "use the 'reverse scientific method'. They determine what happened, throw out all the data that doesn't fit their conclusion, and then hail their findings as the only possible conclusion." Eagar's criticisms also exemplify a common stance that the theories are best ignored. "I've told people that if the argument gets too mainstream, I'll engage in the debate." According to him, this happened when Steve Jones, a physics professor at Brigham Young University, took up the issue.[267]

Michael Shermer, writing in Scientific American, said: "The mistaken belief that a handful of unexplained anomalies can undermine a well-established theory lies at the heart of all conspiratorial thinking. All the evidence for a 9/11 conspiracy falls under the rubric of this fallacy. Such notions are easily refuted by noting that scientific theories are not built on single facts alone but on a convergence of evidence assembled from multiple lines of inquiry."[268]

Scientific American,[268] Popular Mechanics,[269] and The Skeptic's Dictionary[270] have published articles that rebut various 9/11 conspiracy theories. Popular Mechanics has published a book entitled Debunking 9/11 Myths that expands upon the research first presented in the article.[271] In the foreword for the book Senator John McCain wrote that blaming the U.S. government for the events "mars the memories of all those lost on that day" and "exploits the public's anger and sadness. It shakes Americans' faith in their government at a time when that faith is already near an all-time low. It trafficks in ugly, unfounded accusations of extraordinary evil against fellow Americans."[272]

Der Spiegel dismissed 9/11 conspiracy theories as a "panoply of the absurd", stating "as diverse as these theories and their adherents may be, they share a basic thought pattern: great tragedies must have great reasons."[273]

Journalist Matt Taibbi, in his book The Great Derangement, discusses 9/11 conspiracy theories as symptomatic of what he calls the "derangement" of American society; a disconnection from reality due to widespread "disgust with our political system".[198] Drawing a parallel with the Charismatic movement, he argues that both "chose to battle bugbears that were completely idiotic, fanciful, and imaginary," instead of taking control of their own lives.[198] While critical, Taibbi explains that 9/11 conspiracy theories are different from "Clinton-era black-helicopter paranoia", and constitute more than "a small, scattered group of nutcases [...] they really were, just as they claim to be, almost everyone you meet."[198]

Historian Kenneth J. Dillon argues that 9/11 conspiracy theories represent an overly easy target for skeptics and that their criticisms obfuscate the underlying issue of what actually happened if there was not a conspiracy. He suggests that the answer is criminal negligence on the part of the president and vice president, who were repeatedly warned, followed by a cover-up conspiracy after 9/11.[274][undue weight? – discuss] This was expanded upon by columnist Matt Mankelow writing for the online edition of the British Socialist Worker. He concludes that 9/11 truthers while "desperately trying to legitimately question a version of events" end up playing into the hands of the neoconservatives they are trying to take down by creating a diversion. Mankelow noted that this has irritated many people who are politically left wing.[275]

David Aaronovitch, a columnist for The Times, in his book entitled Voodoo Histories: The Role of the Conspiracy Theory in Shaping Modern History that was published in May 2009, claimed that the theories strain credulity.[76] Aaronovitch also charged that 9/11 conspiracy theorists have exaggerated the expertise of those supporting their theories, and noted that 9/11 conspiracy theorists including David Ray Griffin cross cite each other.[276]

Harvard Law professor Cass Sunstein co-authored a 2009 paper which used members of the 9/11 Truth movement and others as an examples of people who suffer from “crippled epistemologies,” to public trust and the political system. He wrote that "They do not merely undermine democratic debate...In extreme cases, they create or fuel violence. If government can dispel such theories, it should do so.”[41]

In June 2011 the Royal Institute of British Architects was criticized for hosting a lecture by Richard Gage, president of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth. Rick Bell, the director of the American Institute of Architects New York chapter, who was a witness to the 9/11 attacks, said that “no amount of money” would persuade him to allow the group to talk at his headquarters and said that Gage lacks credibility among the professional community. Eugine Kohn, former spokesperson for the American Institute of Architects, said Gage's theories were "ridiculous", "There were no explosives planted”, and “The buildings were definitely brought down by the planes". The decision to host the event was also criticized by the former president of the Royal Institute of British Architects and the founding president of the American Institute of Architects United Kingdom chapter. Gage has been warned by the AIA against giving a false impression that he has a relationship with them. A July article in the organizations magazine criticized Gage for continuing to intimate that he has an association with them and claimed there were no architects at an Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth screening held in an American Institute of Architects boardroom [277] The Royal Institute of British Architects released a statement saying the perception that the group endorses events held in its buildings is "regrettable", and said they would review policy on "private hire" of its buildings.[278] Anthony Summers and Robbyn Swan offer scathing criticism of many of the above theories in The Eleventh Day, their 2011 investigation of the attacks.[279]

U.S. representative Peter T. King, chairmen of the House Homeland Security Committee, said 9/11 conspiracy theorists "trivialize" the "most tragic event to affect the United States" and that "People making these claims are disgraceful, and they should be ashamed of themselves".[280]
 
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCLHL5iToJ8]9/11 Truth: MIT Engineer Jeff King Says WTC Demolished - YouTube[/ame]
 
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7e_ImZYzNLs]MIT Physics vs. 9/11 Conspiracy (Part 1) - YouTube[/ame]
 
Why Did WTC 7 Collapse?

Good question. The investigators were baffled. But the conspiracy theory doesn't explain anything. Why bring down an empty building hours after the main attack?
Nutty 9-11 Physics

apparently your nutty professer never read the NIST report...lol
 
We've all heard that a million [CT] monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true. (Robert Wilensky)

*Because according to the internet, Ron Paul will be President and Serenity is the best movie evah ... Oh, and the world will end tomorrow.
Have a nice day!
 
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Wait, so there are experts that believe the planes brought down the buildings? Would that mean that if you believe it was an inside job done with explosives, you are calling those experts idiots?

I'm just trying to apply the same arguments that have been used by some truthers about their own preferred expert opinions. :)
 
Twoofers choose to present youtubes as evidence. My response; I can make youtubes all day long that show the earth is flat and the moon is made of green cheese.
Twoofers follow Alex the fraud Jones and think he is infallible.
My Response;
Alex Jones has never been more than a huckster that is in the business of taking money from the weak-minded who he can convince to believe his conspiracy theories for cash.
The twoofers consistantly drag out A&E for truth organization.
my response; check the roster of this org, unless they have started granting engineering licenses, the majority of their members, and the most vocal, are not only not engineers or architects, they are nothing more than hucksters for the fraud Jones. Check his support and membership in this group. That's right, he is a founding member.
In short, the twoofers will consistantly choose unreliable sources, and sources who have a monetary interest in promoting conspiracys over real truth any day.
The are only a few twoofers here on USMB that engage in discussion. The majority of the twoofer crop we have here only engages in trolling and name-calling.
 
Twoofers choose to present youtubes as evidence. My response; I can make youtubes all day long that show the earth is flat and the moon is made of green cheese.
Twoofers follow Alex the fraud Jones and think he is infallible.
My Response;
Alex Jones has never been more than a huckster that is in the business of taking money from the weak-minded who he can convince to believe his conspiracy theories for cash.
The twoofers consistantly drag out A&E for truth organization.
my response; check the roster of this org, unless they have started granting engineering licenses, the majority of their members, and the most vocal, are not only not engineers or architects, they are nothing more than hucksters for the fraud Jones. Check his support and membership in this group. That's right, he is a founding member.
In short, the twoofers will consistantly choose unreliable sources, and sources who have a monetary interest in promoting conspiracys over real truth any day.
The are only a few twoofers here on USMB that engage in discussion. The majority of the twoofer crop we have here only engages in trolling and name-calling.

I believe you infer that the moon is not made of cheese but I have irrefutable proof it is. Swiss Cheese. How else do you explain the holes? :eusa_shhh:
 
A conspiracy theory does NOT have to propose a better truth.

It merely has to deny the currently accepted truth as wrong.
 
A conspiracy theory does NOT have to propose a better truth.
It merely has to deny the currently accepted truth as wrong.

That's a cop-out.
Rational peeps consider the rational options and come to rational conclusions.
CTs seek out any and all manner of Internet "facts" which support their particular predetermined conclusions.
I notice some of our CTs have shifted gears and are no longer promoting silly CT versions of 9/11 but have switched to the we-really-don't-know-what-happened approach you are pushing.
We seem to agree that the Commission's conclusions, based on the NIST study and the testimony of dozens of peeps, is flawed.
We disagree on the degree and whether anyone other than al Qaeda and anything other than the impacts and ensuing fires brought those buildings down.
I suspect we may never agree and we may never know more than what we now know.
 
A conspiracy theory does NOT have to propose a better truth.

It merely has to deny the currently accepted truth as wrong.

Apparently this is true, at least in the eyes of the CT people.

I have challenged truthers to explain the glaring inconsistancies and gaping holes in their own theories and they cannot.

If all they are really doing is saying that the official government version is inconsistant or inadequate, that's fine but that would end the discussion. The discussion continues because they try to push their CT as the more likely truth.
 
A conspiracy theory does NOT have to propose a better truth.

It merely has to deny the currently accepted truth as wrong.

Apparently this is true, at least in the eyes of the CT people.

I have challenged truthers to explain the glaring inconsistancies and gaping holes in their own theories and they cannot.

If all they are really doing is saying that the official government version is inconsistant or inadequate, that's fine but that would end the discussion. The discussion continues because they try to push their CT as the more likely truth.

It would end the discussion because most Americans can agree that the Commission's conclusions are flawed but we disagree on the degree and the significance of those flaws.
 
A conspiracy theory does NOT have to propose a better truth.

It merely has to deny the currently accepted truth as wrong.

Apparently this is true, at least in the eyes of the CT people.

I have challenged truthers to explain the glaring inconsistancies and gaping holes in their own theories and they cannot.

If all they are really doing is saying that the official government version is inconsistant or inadequate, that's fine but that would end the discussion. The discussion continues because they try to push their CT as the more likely truth.

It would end the discussion because most Americans can agree that the Commission's conclusions are flawed but we disagree on the degree and the significance of those flaws.

The fact that it is flawed proves that it was done after the fact and not with for-knowledge. They pieced it together the best they could with what little was left.

Now, had it been perfect and covered all the bases, I'd be calling shenanigans myself.
 
A conspiracy theory does NOT have to propose a better truth.

It merely has to deny the currently accepted truth as wrong.

Apparently this is true, at least in the eyes of the CT people.

I have challenged truthers to explain the glaring inconsistancies and gaping holes in their own theories and they cannot.

If all they are really doing is saying that the official government version is inconsistant or inadequate, that's fine but that would end the discussion. The discussion continues because they try to push their CT as the more likely truth.

It would end the discussion because most Americans can agree that the Commission's conclusions are flawed but we disagree on the degree and the significance of those flaws.

really ? so name...one
 
A conspiracy theory does NOT have to propose a better truth.

It merely has to deny the currently accepted truth as wrong.

Apparently this is true, at least in the eyes of the CT people.

I have challenged truthers to explain the glaring inconsistancies and gaping holes in their own theories and they cannot.

If all they are really doing is saying that the official government version is inconsistant or inadequate, that's fine but that would end the discussion. The discussion continues because they try to push their CT as the more likely truth.

It would end the discussion because most Americans can agree that the Commission's conclusions are flawed but we disagree on the degree and the significance of those flaws.

maybe thats because most of them are like you and your nutty professer and never read the report
 
Apparently this is true, at least in the eyes of the CT people.

I have challenged truthers to explain the glaring inconsistancies and gaping holes in their own theories and they cannot.

If all they are really doing is saying that the official government version is inconsistant or inadequate, that's fine but that would end the discussion. The discussion continues because they try to push their CT as the more likely truth.

It would end the discussion because most Americans can agree that the Commission's conclusions are flawed but we disagree on the degree and the significance of those flaws.

really ? so name...one

I am disappointed by the way-less-than-forthcoming testimony of NORAD's General Arnold and Colonel Scott. I believe they are covering the Air Force's abysmal performance on 9/11 and just added fuel to the CT's fire. Clearly most Americans are unhappy with the state of our gov't and they need to be more open and honest, not less so.
Oh, and fuck you ya pompous queen.
 
A conspiracy theory does NOT have to propose a better truth.

It merely has to deny the currently accepted truth as wrong.

Apparently this is true, at least in the eyes of the CT people.

I have challenged truthers to explain the glaring inconsistancies and gaping holes in their own theories and they cannot.

If all they are really doing is saying that the official government version is inconsistant or inadequate, that's fine but that would end the discussion. The discussion continues because they try to push their CT as the more likely truth.

predfan troll as usual is caught lying.they have explained it to this troll its just he is too stupid to comprehend anything and goes into it seeing only what he wants to see and he cant even explain the gaping holes in the governments theories.

truthers dont go by theories unlike Bush dupes like him do,they go by facts and he runs off and changes the subject when confronted with facts he cant refute.:cuckoo:
 
Apparently this is true, at least in the eyes of the CT people.

I have challenged truthers to explain the glaring inconsistancies and gaping holes in their own theories and they cannot.

If all they are really doing is saying that the official government version is inconsistant or inadequate, that's fine but that would end the discussion. The discussion continues because they try to push their CT as the more likely truth.

It would end the discussion because most Americans can agree that the Commission's conclusions are flawed but we disagree on the degree and the significance of those flaws.

maybe thats because most of them are like you and your nutty professer and never read the report

:clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2:

and ignored witness testimonys as well.many being very credible people.:cuckoo:
 
Yeah I'm curious to see what they think is flawed about the 9-11 report, or the NIST report, when all they do day after day is try to defend one of the biggest conspiracy theories ever made up.

The OCT is based on a conspiracy made up of radical Islamic Jihadists hijacking planes with box cutters, who planned it on the same day as mass terrorist drills/war games. Lopsided put options on the affected airlines and insurance companies suggest some fore knowledge.
Norad officials lying to the commission suggests a cover up, as well as administration officials saying no one would have even guessed this could happen is an outright lie.
Trying to pin it on Iraq was as well. Turning down the offer to hand over OBL suggests a plan for war was in place all along.
And the PNAC members calling for a new Pearl Harbor to take over the oils resources, suggests plans were already made up
Evidence that resulted by torture is not at all accurate.
If people really think this went down the way they were told, and all the "mistakes" and "coincidences"
are normal and likely then they are stupid.
But most of those who come here defending the OCT, and NIST despite all that is against it and all those that have spoken out about it, must be assumed to be anti American disinformation trolls.
Notice how they never ever post anything that is critical of the government in their postings??
 

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