"The solution is to change minds and hearts"

[MarcATL]

I've noticed more than a few Conservative USMB posters utilize, apparently the latest meme "The solution is to change minds and hearts" when referring to things such as serving gays in businesses open to the public and dealing w/gun violence rampant in America.

Really?

How would "changing minds and hearts" have worked for the civil rights movement?

We don't live in a vacuum folks, "changing minds and hearts" wouldn't improve a single, solitary thing WITHOUT being followed by some legislative action.

Unless you can show me a time in America's history where "The solution is to change minds and hearts" actually worked I call BS.

Likening the civil rights movement - where people went from SLAVERY to outright rejection to the 'horrors' the gays have to face like being denied a cake from one out of a thousand bakers is utter idiocy.

There is not comparison and there certainly isn't discrimination even one millionth of what blacks faced throughout that time. When were gays denied the right to vote? Own property? sit on the bus?

the singular right that was denied was the right of marriage. Wrong? Yes. Close to being denied voting, property, family, access to law, self determination and even life all legally? Not in the same ballpark.

Although I don't equate being gay to being black, I do find equity in the attack of their civil rights based on treating them humanely, as in the example of the Baker and Cake scenario.

 

[williepete]

the ones that sit and take blows and beg for you to understand their position...that's who you like.

Brother Marc. You could not have misread my post any worse than this if I had written it in Aramaic. You don't know me or what's in my heart.

I had more to write and a link to back it up but I see there is no use.

Peace be with you and yours. I've now learned to steer clear of these race baiting threads.

Over and out.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

MLK greatest legacy and gift to America was that he changed the hearts and minds of white Americans. By following the examples of Christ and Gandhi in orchestrating a peaceful movement, he disarmed white resistance. By refusing to take the road of violence, he forced whites to take pause and take the measure of this brave man. To consider what this movement meant for all Americans.

Had he chosen to attempt his goals with violence, he would have sparked a race war that could have killed untold numbers on both sides and left a wound that may never have healed.

MLK's greatest gift to America was that he took the first bold steps in freeing white Americans from blind hate. As the wall he helped crack slowly fell down, relations improved. I've had the honor and a privilege to be born at the exact time to have watched this unfold. MLK earned a hallowed place among the greatest of Americans in history.

And now we have Obama.

It's pretty sad to see that the only way the majority of white America would come to love, or at least partially like a black man is when he totally prostrates himself and subjects himself to the beatings, blows and whims of them.

The ones that stand up for themselves, like what the modern day Tea Party is doing, they see as hateful (read Malcolm X), the ones that sit and take blows and beg for you to understand their position...that's who you like. And not even fully, because many whites still find reason and cause to besmirch MLK.

Sad, very sad.

@williepete

What is sad is that you believe this crap.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I've noticed more than a few Conservative USMB posters utilize, apparently the latest meme "The solution is to change minds and hearts" when referring to things such as serving gays in businesses open to the public and dealing w/gun violence rampant in America.

Really?

How would "changing minds and hearts" have worked for the civil rights movement?

We don't live in a vacuum folks, "changing minds and hearts" wouldn't improve a single, solitary thing WITHOUT being followed by some legislative action.

Unless you can show me a time in America's history where "The solution is to change minds and hearts" actually worked I call BS.

Martin Luther King worked every day of his life to change hearts. He even argued that, ultimately, that was the only real solution to the problem. He believed in laws to protect people, but he also believed in the power of change.



Any other questions, idiot?

Then how come you were utterly clueless about exactly the same sentiment in that mindless Twitter thread you started, idiot?

What?

 

[MarcATL]

the ones that sit and take blows and beg for you to understand their position...that's who you like.

Brother Marc. You could not have misread my post any worse than this if I had written it in Aramaic. You don't know me or what's in my heart.

I had more to write and a link to back it up but I see there is no use.

Peace be with you and yours. I've now learned to steer clear of these race baiting threads.

Over and out.

Brother Pete,

Don't get me wrong, I get your point.

Hopefully, you can understand the position I shared as well.

Sometimes there's no right or wrong, there just is.

[MENTION=31703]williepete[/MENTION]

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Hearts and minds, time we no longer can afford to waste on the stupid.

 

[Pogo]

Martin Luther King worked every day of his life to change hearts. He even argued that, ultimately, that was the only real solution to the problem. He believed in laws to protect people, but he also believed in the power of change.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiKlwaOcjuU

Any other questions, idiot?

Then how come you were utterly clueless about exactly the same sentiment in that mindless Twitter thread you started, idiot?

What?

Exactly.

 

[Freewill]

MLK greatest legacy and gift to America was that he changed the hearts and minds of white Americans. By following the examples of Christ and Gandhi in orchestrating a peaceful movement, he disarmed white resistance. By refusing to take the road of violence, he forced whites to take pause and take the measure of this brave man. To consider what this movement meant for all Americans.

Had he chosen to attempt his goals with violence, he would have sparked a race war that could have killed untold numbers on both sides and left a wound that may never have healed.

MLK's greatest gift to America was that he took the first bold steps in freeing white Americans from blind hate. As the wall he helped crack slowly fell down, relations improved. I've had the honor and a privilege to be born at the exact time to have watched this unfold. MLK earned a hallowed place among the greatest of Americans in history.

And now we have Obama.

It's pretty sad to see that the only way the majority of white America would come to love, or at least partially like a black man is when he totally prostrates himself and subjects himself to the beatings, blows and whims of them.

The ones that stand up for themselves, like what the modern day Tea Party is doing, they see as hateful (read Malcolm X), the ones that sit and take blows and beg for you to understand their position...that's who you like. And not even fully, because many whites still find reason and cause to besmirch MLK.

Sad, very sad.

[MENTION=31703]williepete[/MENTION]

You definitely need to quit worrying about whitey.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzslA6jIuts#t=84]ZoNation: Observing Black History Month - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Mr. H.]

I've noticed more than a few Conservative USMB posters utilize, apparently the latest meme "The solution is to change minds and hearts" when referring to things such as serving gays in businesses open to the public and dealing w/gun violence rampant in America.

Really?

How would "changing minds and hearts" have worked for the civil rights movement?

We don't live in a vacuum folks, "changing minds and hearts" wouldn't improve a single, solitary thing WITHOUT being followed by some legislative action.

Unless you can show me a time in America's history where "The solution is to change minds and hearts" actually worked I call BS.

Our Nation has been brought to its knees by phrases such as "Hope" and "Change".

And you take issue with "changing minds and hearts?".

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I've noticed more than a few Conservative USMB posters utilize, apparently the latest meme "The solution is to change minds and hearts" when referring to things such as serving gays in businesses open to the public and dealing w/gun violence rampant in America.

Really?

How would "changing minds and hearts" have worked for the civil rights movement?

We don't live in a vacuum folks, "changing minds and hearts" wouldn't improve a single, solitary thing WITHOUT being followed by some legislative action.

Unless you can show me a time in America's history where "The solution is to change minds and hearts" actually worked I call BS.

‘Change minds and hearts’ is conserva-speak for allowing un-Constitutional, discriminatory measures such as Utah’s Amendment 3, denying same-sex couples their equal protection rights, to remain in effect, unchallenged in the courts, until such time as the voters of Utah ‘decide’ to ‘recognize’ gay Americans’ civil liberties some 100 or 150 years from now.

A civil right delayed is a civil right denied.

‘Change minds and hearts’ reflects the same mindset found in much of the South during the 50s and 60s where ‘moderates’ would admonish African-Americans suffering from the bane of segregation to ‘be patient, in time things will change.’

Needless to say ‘change minds and hearts’ was nonsense 50 years ago and it’s nonsense today. Just as African-Americans had to fight in the courts to realize their civil liberties to end segregation – opposed every step of the way by conservatives – so too must gay Americans fight for their civil rights in the courts, because most conservatives have no desire to change either their minds or hearts.

 

[The Rabbi]

Gays have exactly the same civil rights as anyone else, last I checked.
SO no denial of any rights. Another lib strawman, repeated here daily.

 

[Old Rocks]

MLK greatest legacy and gift to America was that he changed the hearts and minds of white Americans. By following the examples of Christ and Gandhi in orchestrating a peaceful movement, he disarmed white resistance. By refusing to take the road of violence, he forced whites to take pause and take the measure of this brave man. To consider what this movement meant for all Americans.

Had he chosen to attempt his goals with violence, he would have sparked a race war that could have killed untold numbers on both sides and left a wound that may never have healed.

MLK's greatest gift to America was that he took the first bold steps in freeing white Americans from blind hate. As the wall he helped crack slowly fell down, relations improved. I've had the honor and a privilege to be born at the exact time to have watched this unfold. MLK earned a hallowed place among the greatest of Americans in history.

And now we have Obama.

Yes, now we have President Obama. And one glaringly obvious fact is that while there were a majority of hearts and minds changed, there are still plenty of warped minds and diseased hearts still in our nation. But it took National Guardsmen to escort the first black student into a previously all white university. And it took Federal Law to end the tricks to prevent people of color from voting at all. And today we have one national party desiring to bring back those tricks.

 

[MarcATL]

Yes, now we have President Obama. And one glaringly obvious fact is that while there were a majority of hearts and minds changed, there are still plenty of warped minds and diseased hearts still in our nation. But it took National Guardsmen to escort the first black student into a previously all white university. And it took Federal Law to end the tricks to prevent people of color from voting at all. And today we have one national party desiring to bring back those tricks.

Exactly, it took FORCE and LEGISLATION to go along with those EFFORTS and ATTEMPTS to change hearts and minds.

How come the RWers don't go with the "change hearts and minds" arguments when it comes to overseas wars?

Hmmmmm!?!?!?

 

[Avatar4321]

I've noticed more than a few Conservative USMB posters utilize, apparently the latest meme "The solution is to change minds and hearts" when referring to things such as serving gays in businesses open to the public and dealing w/gun violence rampant in America.

Really?

How would "changing minds and hearts" have worked for the civil rights movement?

We don't live in a vacuum folks, "changing minds and hearts" wouldn't improve a single, solitary thing WITHOUT being followed by some legislative action.

Unless you can show me a time in America's history where "The solution is to change minds and hearts" actually worked I call BS.

MLK Jr changed minds and hearts through non-violence.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ changes minds and hearts everyday. If you haven't experienced that yourself, you are missing a key part of the Christian faith. Without the change of heart, we are just going through the motions.

 

[MarcATL]

I've noticed more than a few Conservative USMB posters utilize, apparently the latest meme "The solution is to change minds and hearts" when referring to things such as serving gays in businesses open to the public and dealing w/gun violence rampant in America.

Really?

How would "changing minds and hearts" have worked for the civil rights movement?

We don't live in a vacuum folks, "changing minds and hearts" wouldn't improve a single, solitary thing WITHOUT being followed by some legislative action.

Unless you can show me a time in America's history where "The solution is to change minds and hearts" actually worked I call BS.

MLK Jr changed minds and hearts through non-violence.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ changes minds and hearts everyday. If you haven't experienced that yourself, you are missing a key part of the Christian faith. Without the change of heart, we are just going through the motions.

Since you're communicating in spiritual terms here.

I'll respond in spiritual terms.

Faith without works is dead.

 

[Mr. H.]

Am I missing something here? "Minds and hearts" trumps "hope and change"?

Examine your conscience, Marc.

This country is in the shitter. Because the semi-negroid hath spoke.

Deleterious.

Yet... deliciously robust.

In a fucked up kind of way.

 

[Avatar4321]

I've noticed more than a few Conservative USMB posters utilize, apparently the latest meme "The solution is to change minds and hearts" when referring to things such as serving gays in businesses open to the public and dealing w/gun violence rampant in America.

Really?

How would "changing minds and hearts" have worked for the civil rights movement?

We don't live in a vacuum folks, "changing minds and hearts" wouldn't improve a single, solitary thing WITHOUT being followed by some legislative action.

Unless you can show me a time in America's history where "The solution is to change minds and hearts" actually worked I call BS.

MLK Jr changed minds and hearts through non-violence.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ changes minds and hearts everyday. If you haven't experienced that yourself, you are missing a key part of the Christian faith. Without the change of heart, we are just going through the motions.

Since you're communicating in spiritual terms here.

I'll respond in spiritual terms.

Faith without works is dead.

Who said otherwise?

 

[MarcATL]

MLK Jr changed minds and hearts through non-violence.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ changes minds and hearts everyday. If you haven't experienced that yourself, you are missing a key part of the Christian faith. Without the change of heart, we are just going through the motions.

Since you're communicating in spiritual terms here.

I'll respond in spiritual terms.

Faith without works is dead.

Who said otherwise?

You did.

By advocating that all should be done is to attempt to change minds and hearts and that's it.

Correct me if I'm wrong on your stance.

Clarify what I'm missing if I'm incorrect.

 

[Avatar4321]

If you change their hearts and minds, you change their behavior. You don't have to pass laws to coerce people because they do so voluntarily and willingly.

Laws change because peoples hearts change. But they do not change hearts. And if the hearts aren't changed, then you aren't fixing the problem. at best you are driving it underground to fester until it gets a new chance to rise to the surface.

There was a quote i used to have in my signature:

The Lord works from the inside out. The world works from the outside in. The world would take people out of the slums. Christ takes the slums out of people, and then they take themselves out of the slums. The world would mold men by changing their environment. Christ changes men, who then change their environment. The world would shape human behavior, but Christ can change human nature. (Born of God - Ezra Taft Benson)

It doesn't matter what you do unless you have the change of heart. Works without faith is just as dead.