The Trump Conundrum

[EriktheRed]

Only reason Republicans are relevant is because people don't show up to midterms

Yup.

 

[Flopper]

Although I can think of better choices for president than Hillary Clinton, I really don't see why she is such a bad choice particular when compared to Trump. Once you get around the lying crooked Hillary nonsense, she has the knowledge, the experience, and the temperament for the job. I doubt there is anyone in Washington who has as many personal contacts with heads of state than Hillary, no one who been involved in the solution of so many crises, and there is no politician that understands better the complex geopolitical landscape of the world.

Everything this woman has touched in her public life is tainted with scandal, corruption and unethical behavior. You can't cite one thing in over 40 years that isn't shrouded in controversy. So this is not nonsense, this is a very legitimate complaint.

But it's not just her corruptness and crookedness that concerns me. She is a radical liberal ideologue, in many ways, worse than Barack Obama. Certainly, many times worse than her husband. In addition to that, she has proven to be totally incompetent in handling of foreign policy. The only possible thing that saves her from being the absolute worst Secretary of State in history is the current Secretary of State, John Kerry. Her "solution to crisis" is to ignore them. Fail to act. Wait until we're left to deal with the aftermath of this and then take the wrong side. Her incompetence has been proved on a level that is literally criminal. She has no business ever holding another public office.

Take a look at those scandals to see who is behind them. In most cases it's Republican congressmen who feed bits of information out to the media. Then it's picked up by hundreds of far right websites who take seemingly innocuous events and suggestions involving the Clinton's and weave them into stories of, corruption, lying, and betrayal.

Remember the Christmas card scandal of 1997 referred to as Cardgate. Republicans in congress could not believe that the large Christmas card list of Clinton was not somehow corrupt, criminal, or some kind of abuse of power. After ten days of congressional investigations and 40,000 subpoenaed documents, the House committee determined the Clinton's had a really big Christmas card list. However, information mysteriously leaked out and Republican media accomplish what congress could not. Stories of connections to organized crime, financial corruption, and even convicted felons were built out of a simple Christmas card list.

Cardgate was going at same time as filegate, a brainchild of the Republican attack dog group Judicial Watch, in which the Clinton administration was charged with misuse of FBI files. This drug on to the end of the Clinton administration spawning dozens of conspiracy theories and accusation until a special prosecution ended the whole thing with a pronouncement of no evidence of wrong doing.

If the subject of emailgate had been any other cabinet member other that Hillary, it would have ended with the inspector general, and a Republican attack on Obama for allowing such gross violations of security.

 

[Boss]

Although I can think of better choices for president than Hillary Clinton, I really don't see why she is such a bad choice particular when compared to Trump. Once you get around the lying crooked Hillary nonsense, she has the knowledge, the experience, and the temperament for the job. I doubt there is anyone in Washington who has as many personal contacts with heads of state than Hillary, no one who been involved in the solution of so many crises, and there is no politician that understands better the complex geopolitical landscape of the world.

Everything this woman has touched in her public life is tainted with scandal, corruption and unethical behavior. You can't cite one thing in over 40 years that isn't shrouded in controversy. So this is not nonsense, this is a very legitimate complaint.

But it's not just her corruptness and crookedness that concerns me. She is a radical liberal ideologue, in many ways, worse than Barack Obama. Certainly, many times worse than her husband. In addition to that, she has proven to be totally incompetent in handling of foreign policy. The only possible thing that saves her from being the absolute worst Secretary of State in history is the current Secretary of State, John Kerry. Her "solution to crisis" is to ignore them. Fail to act. Wait until we're left to deal with the aftermath of this and then take the wrong side. Her incompetence has been proved on a level that is literally criminal. She has no business ever holding another public office.

Take a look at those scandals to see who is behind them. In most cases it's Republican congressmen who feed bits of information out to the media. Then it's picked up by hundreds of far right websites who take seemingly innocuous events and suggestions involving the Clinton's and weave them into stories of, corruption, lying, and betrayal.

Remember the Christmas card scandal of 1997 referred to as Cardgate. Republicans in congress could not believe that the large Christmas card list of Clinton was not somehow corrupt, criminal, or some kind of abuse of power. After ten days of congressional investigations and 40,000 subpoenaed documents, the House committee determined the Clinton's had a really big Christmas card list. However, information mysteriously leaked out and Republican media accomplish what congress could not. Stories of connections to organized crime, financial corruption, and even convicted felons were built out of a simple Christmas card list.

Cardgate was going at same time as filegate, a brainchild of the Republican attack dog group Judicial Watch, in which the Clinton administration was charged with misuse of FBI files. This drug on to the end of the Clinton administration spawning dozens of conspiracy theories and accusation until a special prosecution ended the whole thing with a pronouncement of no evidence of wrong doing.

If the subject of emailgate had been any other cabinet member other that Hillary, it would have ended with the inspector general, and a Republican attack on Obama for allowing such gross violations of security.

Again, Flopper... I am simply not going to accept that the mean old Republicans have hounded and harassed this poor woman for 40 years, through numerous and countless scandals in virtually everything she has ever touched... just because they don't like her.

If you want to immerse yourself in the Hillary koolaid and believe that... it's on you man... I can't do anything about that. She is really good at getting her fat ass out of the ringer... very smart... very shrewd... But there is enough smoke to choke Cheech and Chong... she is corrupt to the core and even some of her most ardent supporters know that... they're okay with it because she's Hillary!

 

[Flopper]

Although I can think of better choices for president than Hillary Clinton, I really don't see why she is such a bad choice particular when compared to Trump. Once you get around the lying crooked Hillary nonsense, she has the knowledge, the experience, and the temperament for the job. I doubt there is anyone in Washington who has as many personal contacts with heads of state than Hillary, no one who been involved in the solution of so many crises, and there is no politician that understands better the complex geopolitical landscape of the world.

Everything this woman has touched in her public life is tainted with scandal, corruption and unethical behavior. You can't cite one thing in over 40 years that isn't shrouded in controversy. So this is not nonsense, this is a very legitimate complaint.

But it's not just her corruptness and crookedness that concerns me. She is a radical liberal ideologue, in many ways, worse than Barack Obama. Certainly, many times worse than her husband. In addition to that, she has proven to be totally incompetent in handling of foreign policy. The only possible thing that saves her from being the absolute worst Secretary of State in history is the current Secretary of State, John Kerry. Her "solution to crisis" is to ignore them. Fail to act. Wait until we're left to deal with the aftermath of this and then take the wrong side. Her incompetence has been proved on a level that is literally criminal. She has no business ever holding another public office.

Take a look at those scandals to see who is behind them. In most cases it's Republican congressmen who feed bits of information out to the media. Then it's picked up by hundreds of far right websites who take seemingly innocuous events and suggestions involving the Clinton's and weave them into stories of, corruption, lying, and betrayal.

Remember the Christmas card scandal of 1997 referred to as Cardgate. Republicans in congress could not believe that the large Christmas card list of Clinton was not somehow corrupt, criminal, or some kind of abuse of power. After ten days of congressional investigations and 40,000 subpoenaed documents, the House committee determined the Clinton's had a really big Christmas card list. However, information mysteriously leaked out and Republican media accomplish what congress could not. Stories of connections to organized crime, financial corruption, and even convicted felons were built out of a simple Christmas card list.

Cardgate was going at same time as filegate, a brainchild of the Republican attack dog group Judicial Watch, in which the Clinton administration was charged with misuse of FBI files. This drug on to the end of the Clinton administration spawning dozens of conspiracy theories and accusation until a special prosecution ended the whole thing with a pronouncement of no evidence of wrong doing.

If the subject of emailgate had been any other cabinet member other that Hillary, it would have ended with the inspector general, and a Republican attack on Obama for allowing such gross violations of security.

Again, Flopper... I am simply not going to accept that the mean old Republicans have hounded and harassed this poor woman for 40 years, through numerous and countless scandals in virtually everything she has ever touched... just because they don't like her.

If you want to immerse yourself in the Hillary koolaid and believe that... it's on you man... I can't do anything about that. She is really good at getting her fat ass out of the ringer... very smart... very shrewd... But there is enough smoke to choke Cheech and Chong... she is corrupt to the core and even some of her most ardent supporters know that... they're okay with it because she's Hillary!

In that case, I want waste my time trying to convince you.

So you will either vote for Trump or help Hillary out by voting 3rd party or not voting at all?

 

[MaryL]

If Trump Or Hillary are the BEST the system offers, the system needs a major overhaul. For instance, proof of citizenship, then a citizenship test. Maybe even an IQ test. Every 12 years or so. No exceptions. People get carded and NEED to prove they are worthy and believe in the process. It would be tough, but honest. That's good with me.

 

[EriktheRed]

But there is enough smoke to choke Cheech and Chong...

But no fire.

 

[Boss]

In that case, I want waste my time trying to convince you.

So you will either vote for Trump or help Hillary out by voting 3rd party or not voting at all?

Or I could vote for Hillary just to cancel out a Trump vote.

I am totally undecided at this point. I plan to vote in the down ballot races for the constitutional conservative candidates and I will hope that Trump doesn't take down the Senate when he loses in landslide to Hillary.

It's a real shame because I could've been a big Trump supporter. I still could vote for him, it's not a done deal yet... there is still time but things need to change.

 

[Slyhunter]

In that case, I want waste my time trying to convince you.

So you will either vote for Trump or help Hillary out by voting 3rd party or not voting at all?

Or I could vote for Hillary just to cancel out a Trump vote.

I am totally undecided at this point. I plan to vote in the down ballot races for the constitutional conservative candidates and I will hope that Trump doesn't take down the Senate when he loses in landslide to Hillary.

It's a real shame because I could've been a big Trump supporter. I still could vote for him, it's not a done deal yet... there is still time but things need to change.

Why should he be the one to change. It got him this far.

 

[Flopper]

If Trump Or Hillary are the BEST the system offers, the system needs a major overhaul. For instance, proof of citizenship, then a citizenship test. Maybe even an IQ test. Every 12 years or so. No exceptions. People get carded and NEED to prove they are worthy and believe in the process. It would be tough, but honest. That's good with me.

The most import qualities for a president, no test can reveal. Only the voter can determine that. What we really need is a better educated electorate. A half semester of civics which concentrates on political ideology and various forms of government doesn't cut the mustard. Most kids get out of high school we a bare minimum knowledge of how our government functions.

 

[Flopper]

In that case, I want waste my time trying to convince you.

So you will either vote for Trump or help Hillary out by voting 3rd party or not voting at all?

Or I could vote for Hillary just to cancel out a Trump vote.

I am totally undecided at this point. I plan to vote in the down ballot races for the constitutional conservative candidates and I will hope that Trump doesn't take down the Senate when he loses in landslide to Hillary.

It's a real shame because I could've been a big Trump supporter. I still could vote for him, it's not a done deal yet... there is still time but things need to change.

If Trump is going to change anything that will effect the election it's going to have to be soon. The media is going to be focusing on the Olympics for the next two weeks and it will be Sept with the first debate just a few weeks away. If Trump doesn't stop acting like a primadonna more interested in defending himself than the issues by labor day, he's going down like a rock. Clinton is beating him nationally in every major poll. In New York state he's down 18 to 23 points. States that were considered to be red are turning blue.

I would really like to hear some of the discussion between Paul Ryan and McConnell. Their only hope is for Trump to drop out of the race or keep his mouth shut, neither of which is likely.

 

[billyerock1991]

well, I'm fully retired ... I sit home in my garage working on restoring a 1957 chevy hard top .. all the money I to pay for it comes from corporations paying me ... not one penny of my money is wasting on anything thing I want... the corporations pay for it ... Plus I get Social security and medicare ... they pay for any thing I might want or need ... I fully fine with you getting every thing you wish for thats you are entitled to have ... thats they way it works ... thats why we pay taxes ... I guess you thought I would be enraged about you getting, how you guys call it??? oh yes ... Free bees !!! as for the youth, it is in their best interest ... the problem you have is you're too stupid to see it ...

I assumed you were very young by reading your posts and social ignorance. No, I didn't assume you would fly off into a rage, why do you say that? I'm too stupid to see how massive tax burdens will hurt the young?

You are an old fool.

if any one is a fool that would be you... you'e too stupid to realize how to work your money ... at the age of thirty five I ran across a money mgr ... he has been working for me for the last 30 years ... he said you can quit your job if you want ... so I worked for another year he was paying 2000 dollars a month... the are all from covered calls ...he would make and it has paid me unbelievable amounts of money each and every year ... so at the age of 37 I quit working a job .... sense moron like you will take you part time retirement, and all the freebees you want thats fine with me ... because you are too stupid to really know how the system works ... I on the other hand do ... I just turn 65 in january of this year and started collecting my Social security and medicare all at the expense of the corporations

"The corporations" aren't paying your medicare, America is. So you hooked up with a telemarketer to make your living? If that's true I hope your car falls on your noggin.

I've never voted in a single liberal in office but it that's what America wants you bet I'll scoop up every bennie I can. And the young will pay for it. Believe me.

no America isn't paying for my social security, I did out of my check each month... now its paying me back ...american isn't paying for my medicare I am, out of my paycheck each month ... are you really this stupid ??? you say your part retired and you say stupid shit like this ??? the young will pay less taxes then anybody next to none under Hillary Clinton ... or bernie ... its obvious you haven't look at their plan have you ... the rich over 250,000 dollars a year will pay more in taxes ...so stop your nonsense here with the poor poor pitiful young pay more in taxes ... the more money make you pay more in taxes, as it should be ... you have no Idea what the liberal plan is

I said Medicare and you saw SS. But unless you die fairly soon you'll get back more than you put it, that's how it works. The money comes from those still putting into the fund. You pay for Medicare but will get many times the value back, that's why it exists. Taxpayers fund it.

You are a blithering idiot, no wonder you believe the things you do.

its not tax payer funded you idiot it never has been ... it funded by you and the company you work for ... when I paid into it, it payed for the people before me... ...thats the way it works .. the tax payer pays nothing in Federal income tax... are you really this stupid ??? as for medicare I paid into an account also that allows me to pay a low fee out of my social security each moths ... nobody pays for that accept me ... the young doest ... but I did... they pay into the fund for their next generation just like I did ... thats they way it works ....thats the way its always worked ... if you don't like the idea of them paying for SS and medicare, for us now, thats to damn bad

 

[billyerock1991]

I assumed you were very young by reading your posts and social ignorance. No, I didn't assume you would fly off into a rage, why do you say that? I'm too stupid to see how massive tax burdens will hurt the young?

You are an old fool.

If you're worried about "massive tax burdens", why do you vote for the party of Cut and Spend, because Republicans since Reagan are the guys of big deficit spending. Democrats tax and spend, but at least they tax before they spend, and pay for their programs. Medicaid Part D - no tax. They made Obama cut some of the taxes to pay for Obamacare.

How is Trump going to pay for his wall? Mexico won't pay for it. What about his deportation force?

Just small examples.

Iceweene hasn't a clue how government works ...he just hears taxes and loses it before he has a clue what its for... we here these clowns say government programs are always a failure ... they don't have the brains enough to go and see why it failed ... when they do they deny the facts that the republicans cut all the money for that program to work ... then quote reagan

 

[billyerock1991]

If Trump Or Hillary are the BEST the system offers, the system needs a major overhaul. For instance, proof of citizenship, then a citizenship test. Maybe even an IQ test. Every 12 years or so. No exceptions. People get carded and NEED to prove they are worthy and believe in the process. It would be tough, but honest. That's good with me.

The most import qualities for a president, no test can reveal. Only the voter can determine that. What we really need is a better educated electorate. A half semester of civics which concentrates on political ideology and various forms of government doesn't cut the mustard. Most kids get out of high school we a bare minimum knowledge of how our government functions.

the republicans have cut so much money for schooling what person would want to be a teacher at what they pay them ... I was watching the late late show with james corden ... he had this actress on who was from canada she was talking about her schooling ... how she learned acting at a young age ...she was in her 20's ... she said every body learns the arts and all of the things we use to have in our schools ... where republicans decided they don't want your child to learn to play the Oboe on their dime ... or a sport ... so in their great wisdom they cut all the arts where we as a country started complaining about all the crime we have now ... so what do the republicans do ??? instead of putting back the arts, sports, what do they do??? spend billions of dollars on private prison, paying them twice the amount then the federal and state prison cost, they start complain about our taxes being to high ... humm wonder why that is...

 

[billyerock1991]

I assumed you were very young by reading your posts and social ignorance. No, I didn't assume you would fly off into a rage, why do you say that? I'm too stupid to see how massive tax burdens will hurt the young?

You are an old fool.

If you're worried about "massive tax burdens", why do you vote for the party of Cut and Spend, because Republicans since Reagan are the guys of big deficit spending. Democrats tax and spend, but at least they tax before they spend, and pay for their programs. Medicaid Part D - no tax. They made Obama cut some of the taxes to pay for Obamacare.

How is Trump going to pay for his wall? Mexico won't pay for it. What about his deportation force?

Just small examples.

Small examples from a small mind. Bush lowered taxes, all of which we still have except for the top bracket, ONLY because we have a GOP congress. No Republican voted for obamacare.

Fail.

you are stupider then shit ... real stupid Oh bush cut taxes he cut taxes alright and we are still paying for it and you too stupid to realize that... with the 500 billion dollar surplus clinton left him to pay down on the national debt yeah thats right to pay down on the national debt in bushes wisdom throw you a bone what did bush do ??? he threw you a bone with that surplus to refund to you 300 dollars ...the rich 1% got billions of dollars in returns ... then Idiots like you sit here and complain about the national debt ... how stupid is that.. like I've said Iceweene you have no Idea what you're talking about ... when it comes to debt

 

[Boss]

Why should he be the one to change. It got him this far.

I would say, because he wants to beat Hillary. If he doesn't he can just keep doing what he's been doing. "It got him this far" ...meaning, it won him the nomination in a field of 17. He won't win the general with the support he currently has, the numbers just aren't there. You can pretend... you're going to be disappointed.

 

[Boss]

In that case, I want waste my time trying to convince you.

So you will either vote for Trump or help Hillary out by voting 3rd party or not voting at all?

Or I could vote for Hillary just to cancel out a Trump vote.

I am totally undecided at this point. I plan to vote in the down ballot races for the constitutional conservative candidates and I will hope that Trump doesn't take down the Senate when he loses in landslide to Hillary.

It's a real shame because I could've been a big Trump supporter. I still could vote for him, it's not a done deal yet... there is still time but things need to change.

If Trump is going to change anything that will effect the election it's going to have to be soon. The media is going to be focusing on the Olympics for the next two weeks and it will be Sept with the first debate just a few weeks away. If Trump doesn't stop acting like a primadonna more interested in defending himself than the issues by labor day, he's going down like a rock. Clinton is beating him nationally in every major poll. In New York state he's down 18 to 23 points. States that were considered to be red are turning blue.

I would really like to hear some of the discussion between Paul Ryan and McConnell. Their only hope is for Trump to drop out of the race or keep his mouth shut, neither of which is likely.

You are correct, this is getting close to being over... but you see the mindset of his loyalists... they think he doesn't need to change.. "it got him this far" ....that's what they say. You can't make them understand his 14 million votes is not enough to win the general. He had 17 million votes against him in just the GOP primary. Most of those votes have now been alienated and won't vote for him.. he's lost them... they'll stay home or vote for someone else. The 2012 winner had nearly 66 million votes.

 

[Old Rocks]

Boss, you are preaching logic to the bunch that stated "we don't need them" every time Trump insulted yet another demographic in the voters. Trump has lost the Executive for the GOP. He has most likely lost the Senate. And, with just a few more statements he will lose the House. Just think of how many times you have seen his supporters state they desire to wreck the GOP. I would say that they have succeeded.

Bill Buckley saw this coming when the GOP first started to court the religious right. This is the culmination of the GOP pandering to the bigots and radical right. Sad to see what the party of Eisenhower has become.

 

[Boss]

Boss, you are preaching logic to the bunch that stated "we don't need them" every time Trump insulted yet another demographic in the voters. Trump has lost the Executive for the GOP. He has most likely lost the Senate. And, with just a few more statements he will lose the House. Just think of how many times you have seen his supporters state they desire to wreck the GOP. I would say that they have succeeded.

Bill Buckley saw this coming when the GOP first started to court the religious right. This is the culmination of the GOP pandering to the bigots and radical right. Sad to see what the party of Eisenhower has become.

Well I don't really agree with the religious right part. I think most constitutional conservatives are also religious people who believe in God. Social conservatives are too ideologically-driven, like the libertarians... but that isn't a bad thing, it just has to be moderated through Conservative philosophy... that was Reagan's secret to success. He was able to bring these various factions together and Trump has alienated them.

Trump is not the culmination of anything the GOP has done.. he is more of a radical response to the feckless nature of the GOP in recent years. People just became fed up with their nonsense. Yes... they've torched the party but unfortunately it will mean President Hildabeast.

 

[owebo]

Boss, you are preaching logic to the bunch that stated "we don't need them" every time Trump insulted yet another demographic in the voters. Trump has lost the Executive for the GOP. He has most likely lost the Senate. And, with just a few more statements he will lose the House. Just think of how many times you have seen his supporters state they desire to wreck the GOP. I would say that they have succeeded.

Bill Buckley saw this coming when the GOP first started to court the religious right. This is the culmination of the GOP pandering to the bigots and radical right. Sad to see what the party of Eisenhower has become.

Well I don't really agree with the religious right part. I think most constitutional conservatives are also religious people who believe in God. Social conservatives are too ideologically-driven, like the libertarians... but that isn't a bad thing, it just has to be moderated through Conservative philosophy... that was Reagan's secret to success. He was able to bring these various factions together and Trump has alienated them.

Trump is not the culmination of anything the GOP has done.. he is more of a radical response to the feckless nature of the GOP in recent years. People just became fed up with their nonsense. Yes... they've torched the party but unfortunately it will mean President Hildabeast.

Hitlery can't do it without your support....

 

[JoeB131]

Again, Flopper... I am simply not going to accept that the mean old Republicans have hounded and harassed this poor woman for 40 years, through numerous and countless scandals in virtually everything she has ever touched... just because they don't like her.

Well, true... you do have a reality denial reflex that is pretty high.

Send people off to war over a lie and get thousands of people killed - meh, no biggie.

Use the wrong kind of email server- "BURN THE WITCH, BURN THE WITCH!!!"

Much like Obama brings out the racism of the right, Hillary brings out the misogyny.

If you want to immerse yourself in the Hillary koolaid and believe that... it's on you man... I can't do anything about that. She is really good at getting her fat ass out of the ringer... very smart... very shrewd... But there is enough smoke to choke Cheech and Chong... she is corrupt to the core and even some of her most ardent supporters know that... they're okay with it because she's Hillary!

Or we just realize the corruption is no big fucking deal.

I mean, if she did something like send out Seal Team Six to kill Monica Lewinsky, yeah, that would be real corruption we should actually kind of worry about.

But using the wrong e-mail server? Meh. Can't get worked up about that. Especially since Colin Powell and Condi Rice did the same thing.