The Trump Conundrum

[JoeB131]

Well I don't really agree with the religious right part. I think most constitutional conservatives are also religious people who believe in God. Social conservatives are too ideologically-driven, like the libertarians... but that isn't a bad thing, it just has to be moderated through Conservative philosophy... that was Reagan's secret to success. He was able to bring these various factions together and Trump has alienated them.

Reagan's secret is that he took the Conservative bitter pill that people overwhelmingly rejected when Goldwater lost 65% of the vote in 1964 and wrapped it up in a gooey, chewing bacon of racism, religion, fear and misogyny. and even then half the country voted against him. they just couldn't agree on an alternative.

The problem has always been that your philosophy is kind of contradictory.. You don't want the government telling employers how to treat their employees or who the have to hire, but you DO want them to tell a lady what kind of birth control to use, because Abortion Makes Baby Jesus cry.

(Oh, if only they had abortion in the first century!!!! Naw, who am I kidding, Jesus was totally made up.)

Trump is not the culmination of anything the GOP has done.. he is more of a radical response to the feckless nature of the GOP in recent years. People just became fed up with their nonsense. Yes... they've torched the party but unfortunately it will mean President Hildabeast.

you see, the real problem conservatism has is that you can't sell it without fear. Fear of the "other"- the minority within the country, or the person outside the country that doesn't believe the same thing as you do. Trump is a MASTER conservative because he is offering nothing BUT fear.

Now, you do hit on a point. The GOP, once elected, has to act like grownup. Budgets need to get passed and laws need to get written. It's why you guys are at your angriest when you've had power for a while and nothing gets done. Trump is very good at playing on your anger. But he doesn't have to talk about Supply Side or Less government, because you shitheads don't really believe in that anyway.

Trump is serving the bacon without the bitter pill.

 

[Dragonlady]

Well I don't really agree with the religious right part. I think most constitutional conservatives are also religious people who believe in God. Social conservatives are too ideologically-driven, like the libertarians... but that isn't a bad thing, it just has to be moderated through Conservative philosophy... that was Reagan's secret to success. He was able to bring these various factions together and Trump has alienated them.

Trump is not the culmination of anything the GOP has done.. he is more of a radical response to the feckless nature of the GOP in recent years. People just became fed up with their nonsense. Yes... they've torched the party but unfortunately it will mean President Hildabeast.

Boss, Reagan "didn't bring these factions together", he created this coalition because it was the only way they could win the election. He promised each of the factions what they wanted: he promised the religious right that he would overturn Roe v Wade, that he would promote "family values", and a socially conservative agenda, he promised the NRA no gun control, he promised the racists he would repeal affirmative action and other programs which gave blacks an unfair advantage and went after "Welfare Queens". Everybody who hated Democrats got a promise, but most were never fulfilled.

Working people got screwed over by the big corporations and the anti-union activity. Wages began to stagnate and the first wave of mergers saw the first rounds of cost-cutting lay-offs. Poverty increased and the number of people receiving food stamps doubled. Out-sourcing under Bush completed the picture. Instead of increasing the minimum wage, both Ronnie and Bush increased "earned income credits", making things worse.

The religious right are up in arms too. After years of being ignored and shit upon, and seeing all of their worst nightmares come true with gay marriage now legal, and abortion still being legal. There is no "War on Christianity", but there is a war by extreme right-wing Christians on those who don't believe as they do, and their targets include many main-stream Christian churches which DO support gay marriage. The extremists and cults call these "not real Christians", but they feel the Republican Party owes them on gay marriage and they want it stopped.

The people Ronnie delivered big for was the 1%. He busted the unions, repealed anti-trust laws giving rise to the monster corporations which have been sucking up all of the wealth of the nation ever since, stagnating wages, and leeching off the middle class. He completed re-ordered the tax code which started the largest transfer of wealth from the working and middle class to the upper class that has destroyed the working class and has the middle class truly frightened.

There was no way that the Republican Party coalition was ever going to hold. Poor white people's interests are in direct opposition to the interests of the rich white people. The racists are a totally destructive influence and don't deserve a voice in government, and the same can be said of religious fundamentalists, who quite frankly, I don't consider to be "real Christians". The party of "Family Values" opposes maternity and family leave, pay equity for women, and birth control as part of health insurance, so women are not going to vote for them.

There are constitutionalists in both parties, and really, constitutional rights are not the reason for voting Republican - the party of the Patriot Act. Shame on Obama for not repealing it. Considering that Trump wants to ban an entire religion, curtail the rights of the press, and freedom of speech, I can't imagine that anyone who seriously respects the US Constitution would ever vote for him.

The Republican Coalition has shattered. Humpty Dumpty is not going back together again.

 

[JoeB131]

You are correct, this is getting close to being over... but you see the mindset of his loyalists... they think he doesn't need to change.. "it got him this far" ....that's what they say. You can't make them understand his 14 million votes is not enough to win the general. He had 17 million votes against him in just the GOP primary. Most of those votes have now been alienated and won't vote for him.. he's lost them... they'll stay home or vote for someone else. The 2012 winner had nearly 66 million votes.

actually, most of the 17 million who didn't vote for him will probably vote for him in the general. Trump will lose because those who don't go to primaries and those who voted for Democrats in 2012 will vote for Hillary.

And you'll come back here and say, "If only we had elected a REAL Conservative"

 

[Dr Grump]

You're entitled to your opinion (as worthless as it is).

An opinion that has played out. Yeah, how worthless is that?

 

[owebo]

You're entitled to your opinion (as worthless as it is).

An opinion that has played out. Yeah, how worthless is that?

From you? Worthless....

 

[Flopper]

If Trump Or Hillary are the BEST the system offers, the system needs a major overhaul. For instance, proof of citizenship, then a citizenship test. Maybe even an IQ test. Every 12 years or so. No exceptions. People get carded and NEED to prove they are worthy and believe in the process. It would be tough, but honest. That's good with me.

The most import qualities for a president, no test can reveal. Only the voter can determine that. What we really need is a better educated electorate. A half semester of civics which concentrates on political ideology and various forms of government doesn't cut the mustard. Most kids get out of high school we a bare minimum knowledge of how our government functions.

the republicans have cut so much money for schooling what person would want to be a teacher at what they pay them ... I was watching the late late show with james corden ... he had this actress on who was from canada she was talking about her schooling ... how she learned acting at a young age ...she was in her 20's ... she said every body learns the arts and all of the things we use to have in our schools ... where republicans decided they don't want your child to learn to play the Oboe on their dime ... or a sport ... so in their great wisdom they cut all the arts where we as a country started complaining about all the crime we have now ... so what do the republicans do ??? instead of putting back the arts, sports, what do they do??? spend billions of dollars on private prison, paying them twice the amount then the federal and state prison cost, they start complain about our taxes being to high ... humm wonder why that is...

I don't see money alone as the whole solution. We need a better way of managing public education and that way should not be privatizing it. There are 3 distinct bureaucracies that control the classroom, the local district, the state DOE, and the federal DOE. They often work at cross purposes and answer to political bodies, a school board, the state legislature, or the congress which often don't agree ideologically or even support the same goals. The funding sources are just as screwed up. I don't know the answers but I do know we need better management of our educational dollars, curriculum, and programs than we are getting.

 

[owebo]

If Trump Or Hillary are the BEST the system offers, the system needs a major overhaul. For instance, proof of citizenship, then a citizenship test. Maybe even an IQ test. Every 12 years or so. No exceptions. People get carded and NEED to prove they are worthy and believe in the process. It would be tough, but honest. That's good with me.

The most import qualities for a president, no test can reveal. Only the voter can determine that. What we really need is a better educated electorate. A half semester of civics which concentrates on political ideology and various forms of government doesn't cut the mustard. Most kids get out of high school we a bare minimum knowledge of how our government functions.

the republicans have cut so much money for schooling what person would want to be a teacher at what they pay them ... I was watching the late late show with james corden ... he had this actress on who was from canada she was talking about her schooling ... how she learned acting at a young age ...she was in her 20's ... she said every body learns the arts and all of the things we use to have in our schools ... where republicans decided they don't want your child to learn to play the Oboe on their dime ... or a sport ... so in their great wisdom they cut all the arts where we as a country started complaining about all the crime we have now ... so what do the republicans do ??? instead of putting back the arts, sports, what do they do??? spend billions of dollars on private prison, paying them twice the amount then the federal and state prison cost, they start complain about our taxes being to high ... humm wonder why that is...

I don't see money alone as the whole solution. We need a better way of managing public education and that way should not be privatizing it. There are 3 distinct bureaucracies that control the classroom, the local district, the state DOE, and the federal DOE. They often work at cross purposes and answer to political bodies, a school board, the state legislature, or the congress which often don't agree ideologically or even support the same goals. The funding sources are just as screwed up. I don't know the answers but I do know we need better management of our educational dollars, curriculum, and programs than we are getting.

School vouchers...fuck the DOE....parents are the only thing that can fix our liberal fucktard education system....

 

[Slyhunter]

Why should he be the one to change. It got him this far.

I would say, because he wants to beat Hillary. If he doesn't he can just keep doing what he's been doing. "It got him this far" ...meaning, it won him the nomination in a field of 17. He won't win the general with the support he currently has, the numbers just aren't there. You can pretend... you're going to be disappointed.

VIDEO : Results of Live “Bravo Presidential Poll” Shocks Host Andy Cohen

 

[Slyhunter]

In that case, I want waste my time trying to convince you.

So you will either vote for Trump or help Hillary out by voting 3rd party or not voting at all?

Or I could vote for Hillary just to cancel out a Trump vote.

I am totally undecided at this point. I plan to vote in the down ballot races for the constitutional conservative candidates and I will hope that Trump doesn't take down the Senate when he loses in landslide to Hillary.

It's a real shame because I could've been a big Trump supporter. I still could vote for him, it's not a done deal yet... there is still time but things need to change.

If Trump is going to change anything that will effect the election it's going to have to be soon. The media is going to be focusing on the Olympics for the next two weeks and it will be Sept with the first debate just a few weeks away. If Trump doesn't stop acting like a primadonna more interested in defending himself than the issues by labor day, he's going down like a rock. Clinton is beating him nationally in every major poll. In New York state he's down 18 to 23 points. States that were considered to be red are turning blue.

I would really like to hear some of the discussion between Paul Ryan and McConnell. Their only hope is for Trump to drop out of the race or keep his mouth shut, neither of which is likely.

You are correct, this is getting close to being over... but you see the mindset of his loyalists... they think he doesn't need to change.. "it got him this far" ....that's what they say. You can't make them understand his 14 million votes is not enough to win the general. He had 17 million votes against him in just the GOP primary. Most of those votes have now been alienated and won't vote for him.. he's lost them... they'll stay home or vote for someone else. The 2012 winner had nearly 66 million votes.

More people voted for him than voted for anyone ever.

Don't believe the Liberal polls who skew the polls to the Democrats. Trump is going to win.

 

[Slyhunter]

Well I don't really agree with the religious right part. I think most constitutional conservatives are also religious people who believe in God. Social conservatives are too ideologically-driven, like the libertarians... but that isn't a bad thing, it just has to be moderated through Conservative philosophy... that was Reagan's secret to success. He was able to bring these various factions together and Trump has alienated them.

Reagan's secret is that he took the Conservative bitter pill that people overwhelmingly rejected when Goldwater lost 65% of the vote in 1964 and wrapped it up in a gooey, chewing bacon of racism, religion, fear and misogyny. and even then half the country voted against him. they just couldn't agree on an alternative.

The problem has always been that your philosophy is kind of contradictory.. You don't want the government telling employers how to treat their employees or who the have to hire, but you DO want them to tell a lady what kind of birth control to use, because Abortion Makes Baby Jesus cry.

(Oh, if only they had abortion in the first century!!!! Naw, who am I kidding, Jesus was totally made up.)

Trump is not the culmination of anything the GOP has done.. he is more of a radical response to the feckless nature of the GOP in recent years. People just became fed up with their nonsense. Yes... they've torched the party but unfortunately it will mean President Hildabeast.

you see, the real problem conservatism has is that you can't sell it without fear. Fear of the "other"- the minority within the country, or the person outside the country that doesn't believe the same thing as you do. Trump is a MASTER conservative because he is offering nothing BUT fear.

Now, you do hit on a point. The GOP, once elected, has to act like grownup. Budgets need to get passed and laws need to get written. It's why you guys are at your angriest when you've had power for a while and nothing gets done. Trump is very good at playing on your anger. But he doesn't have to talk about Supply Side or Less government, because you shitheads don't really believe in that anyway.

Trump is serving the bacon without the bitter pill.

Abortion makes baby Jesus cry? You are so full of shit. Some people think that it's a precious life you are killing when you abort a baby. That is murder. Some people think human life is more precious than other life forms.

 

[JoeB131]

More people voted for him than voted for anyone ever.

Don't believe the Liberal polls who skew the polls to the Democrats. Trump is going to win.

i think you have a math problem. 13 million people voted for Trump in the primary, and 17 million voted against him.

That's nothing compared to the 66 Million Obama got in 2012 or the 69 Million he got in 2008.

Now, you might be thinking to yourself that's the most anyone got in a primary, but that's not true, either. Hillary got more votes this year... Obama and Hillary both got more votes in 2008.

Trump isn't going to win because even people who don't like Hillary aren't reckless enough to put him in the White House.

 

[JoeB131]

Abortion makes baby Jesus cry? You are so full of shit. Some people think that it's a precious life you are killing when you abort a baby. That is murder. Some people think human life is more precious than other life forms.

Fetuses aren't people.

Not in the law.
Not in medical science
Not even in the Bible.

We don't have funerals for tampons.

 

[defcon4]

i think you have a math problem. 13 million people voted for Trump in the primary, and 17 million voted against him.

That's nothing compared to the 66 Million Obama got in 2012 or the 69 Million he got in 2008.

Now, you might be thinking to yourself that's the most anyone got in a primary, but that's not true, either. Hillary got more votes this year... Obama and Hillary both got more votes in 2008.

Trump isn't going to win because even people who don't like Hillary aren't reckless enough to put him in the White House.

Uh...guy. Where did you come up with the 17 million AGAINST him? Was there a check box as "for" and a check box as "against" on the ballot?
When you vote for somebody it doesn't necessarily mean that your vote is against somebody else. It is not like "if you are not with us you are against us."
Quit doing this: you are brain damaged.

 

[Slyhunter]

More people voted for him than voted for anyone ever.

Don't believe the Liberal polls who skew the polls to the Democrats. Trump is going to win.

i think you have a math problem. 13 million people voted for Trump in the primary, and 17 million voted against him.

That's nothing compared to the 66 Million Obama got in 2012 or the 69 Million he got in 2008.

Now, you might be thinking to yourself that's the most anyone got in a primary, but that's not true, either. Hillary got more votes this year... Obama and Hillary both got more votes in 2008.

Trump isn't going to win because even people who don't like Hillary aren't reckless enough to put him in the White House.

Trump got more more votes in a Republican nominating contest than anyone on record.
Trump got the most GOP votes ever — both for and against him — and other fun facts

 

[Slyhunter]

Abortion makes baby Jesus cry? You are so full of shit. Some people think that it's a precious life you are killing when you abort a baby. That is murder. Some people think human life is more precious than other life forms.

Fetuses aren't people.

Not in the law.
Not in medical science
Not even in the Bible.

We don't have funerals for tampons.

If it isn't human what is kicking the shit out of this woman's stomach?

 

[JoeB131]

Uh...guy. Where did you come up with the 17 million AGAINST him? Was there a check box as "for" and a check box as "against" on the ballot?
When you vote for somebody it doesn't necessarily mean that your vote is against somebody else. It is not like "if you are not with us you are against us."
Quit doing this: you are brain damaged.

They didn't vote for him. THerefore they voted against him. Now, yeah, I suspect a lot of you just hate Hillary so much you'll vote for him in the General and ignore the fact he's batshit crazy, but that's on you.

 

[JoeB131]

If it isn't human what is kicking the shit out of this woman's stomach?

Not the point, guy. If you are aborting a fetus at that point, the thing is so fucking deformed it's a mercy.

 

[JoeB131]

Trump got more more votes in a Republican nominating contest than anyone on record.

Okay, but that's still relatively meaningless, as only about 25% of the electorate participates in primaries.

Trump did a great job of getting the bubba rednecks angry enough to vote for him, but the rest of the country, not so much.

 

[defcon4]

Uh...guy. Where did you come up with the 17 million AGAINST him? Was there a check box as "for" and a check box as "against" on the ballot?
When you vote for somebody it doesn't necessarily mean that your vote is against somebody else. It is not like "if you are not with us you are against us."
Quit doing this: you are brain damaged.

They didn't vote for him. THerefore they voted against him. Now, yeah, I suspect a lot of you just hate Hillary so much you'll vote for him in the General and ignore the fact he's batshit crazy, but that's on you.

Uh...guy...nice spin attempt. If one votes for a particular candidate out of 16, then that vote was for one candidate or was against the other 15 candidates?
Quit banging your head into the wall, you see what happens if you do continue?

 

[Old Rocks]

LOL See you Trumpsters 9Nov16. Going to be even better than 7Nov12. LOL