The Truth about Mormons

[Monnagonna]

Avatar, I was asking for proof, which is something that has empirical evidence, i.e. provable by scientific methods. If you see something, hear something or feel something that you can't prove to someone else with TANGIBLE evidence, you may be schizophrenic, or just simply deluded.

Truth, your story about Lincecum doesn't make any sense, His Cy Youngs can be proven with tangible facts, like I can prove that he exists, baseball exists, the award exists, and that his stats prove that he's a good pitcher. So saying that he might win the Cy Young is not faith, it's an educated guess. Whereas in religion, nothing in the bible or any other books can be proven (I'm talking about the big stuff, i.e. floods, ark, walking on water, burning bush... not whether such and such city existed).

 

[Truthspeaker]

There is no proof of a god, especially not one invented by that imbecile jo smith.

You've convinced yourself that there is no proof so that when proof comes by, you don't recognize it. You're not looking for proof because you don't care if there is a God or not.

I also see you can't make up your mind whether Joseph Smith is an imbecile or a con-man. Which is your stance. Sorry can't be both.

Ok einstein, tell me about your most 100% provable proof that a god exists.

Proof numero uno:
The order and balance found on Planet Earth. Such a likelihood of an earth falling together by chance in the middle of space is like the likelihood of Winning the Lottery a Hundred times in a hundred years straight.
Clear cut proof of intelligent design.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Avatar, I was asking for proof, which is something that has empirical evidence, i.e. provable by scientific methods. If you see something, hear something or feel something that you can't prove to someone else with TANGIBLE evidence, you may be schizophrenic, or just simply deluded.

Truth, your story about Lincecum doesn't make any sense, His Cy Youngs can be proven with tangible facts, like I can prove that he exists, baseball exists, the award exists, and that his stats prove that he's a good pitcher. So saying that he might win the Cy Young is not faith, it's an educated guess. Whereas in religion, nothing in the bible or any other books can be proven (I'm talking about the big stuff, i.e. floods, ark, walking on water, burning bush... not whether such and such city existed).

my example of faith was circa 2005 before he won his awards. I believed he would, then a couple years later, he did. There was no proof that he would win them. Only a belief.

 

[Monnagonna]

Avatar, I was asking for proof, which is something that has empirical evidence, i.e. provable by scientific methods. If you see something, hear something or feel something that you can't prove to someone else with TANGIBLE evidence, you may be schizophrenic, or just simply deluded.

Truth, your story about Lincecum doesn't make any sense, His Cy Youngs can be proven with tangible facts, like I can prove that he exists, baseball exists, the award exists, and that his stats prove that he's a good pitcher. So saying that he might win the Cy Young is not faith, it's an educated guess. Whereas in religion, nothing in the bible or any other books can be proven (I'm talking about the big stuff, i.e. floods, ark, walking on water, burning bush... not whether such and such city existed).

my example of faith was circa 2005 before he won his awards. I believed he would, then a couple years later, he did. There was no proof that he would win them. Only a belief.

Sorry but that argument suffers an epic fail because your baseball faith isn't really faith, the belief in Faith, in Christianity, has been most commonly defined by the biblical formulation in the Epistle to the Hebrews (11:1) as "'the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen", in other words, faith by definition is the belief of something that can't be proven. So the baseball thing is an educated guess based on real stats, events... not religious faith. Faith that your wife will bring some milk home is completely different from religious faith someone might have in an invisible and unprovable superbeing.

 

[Avatar4321]

Avatar, I was asking for proof, which is something that has empirical evidence, i.e. provable by scientific methods. If you see something, hear something or feel something that you can't prove to someone else with TANGIBLE evidence, you may be schizophrenic, or just simply deluded.

Truth, your story about Lincecum doesn't make any sense, His Cy Youngs can be proven with tangible facts, like I can prove that he exists, baseball exists, the award exists, and that his stats prove that he's a good pitcher. So saying that he might win the Cy Young is not faith, it's an educated guess. Whereas in religion, nothing in the bible or any other books can be proven (I'm talking about the big stuff, i.e. floods, ark, walking on water, burning bush... not whether such and such city existed).

Not my fault you don't want to go through the experiment. You want science. I provided you a way where you can obtain such evidence through science.

What you really want is someone else to do the work. Because if you sincerely wanted to know, you'd seek the answer and experiment on the Word.

It's sad really. You can know. But you deny yourself the blessings because you won't put in the effort.

 

[JakeStarkey]

We see once again the failed words of atheist philosophical assertion. Truly sad. So much more faith is required to be an atheist than a religionist. Talk about wasteful and wasted speculation.

 

[Monnagonna]

Avatar, I was asking for proof, which is something that has empirical evidence, i.e. provable by scientific methods. If you see something, hear something or feel something that you can't prove to someone else with TANGIBLE evidence, you may be schizophrenic, or just simply deluded.

Truth, your story about Lincecum doesn't make any sense, His Cy Youngs can be proven with tangible facts, like I can prove that he exists, baseball exists, the award exists, and that his stats prove that he's a good pitcher. So saying that he might win the Cy Young is not faith, it's an educated guess. Whereas in religion, nothing in the bible or any other books can be proven (I'm talking about the big stuff, i.e. floods, ark, walking on water, burning bush... not whether such and such city existed).

Not my fault you don't want to go through the experiment. You want science. I provided you a way where you can obtain such evidence through science.

What you really want is someone else to do the work. Because if you sincerely wanted to know, you'd seek the answer and experiment on the Word.

It's sad really. You can know. But you deny yourself the blessings because you won't put in the effort.

C'mon man seriously? You think that the bible is science?
It's just a bunch of made up stories that if you believe them all, then I guess you would believe in god, but those stories always seemed to me to be laughable as truths.
You might as well base your life on the world of dungeons and dragons. They have some cool books too.

 

[Monnagonna]

Ringo, you talking to yourself?

 

[Truthspeaker]

quite the contrary, a con man can easily delude himself into believing the con. Human beings are social animals. We all tend to run in the same way. When a social dynamic is established, we tend to go with the flow. So yeah, Smith or Hubbard or Hitler could have started a movement knowing full well it was a scam, but can get caught up into to the point they start buying into it. Smith probably expected God to save him, as did Koresh, Hubbard or Hitler.

Buying into something because it is profitable to you or believing something are two different things entirely. I'm 100% certain that con men don't believe they are doing the right thing. They just do it because it serves their wishes. A man doesn't believe his own lies. It really is impossible.

No funny you should mention that. My mom was a Baptist from Missouri, and when she saw your con artist ads in the 1970's, she was pretty disgusted with what you guys were trying to pull. They seemed nice enough to me, but that was before I realized what you folks were...

The folks in Missouri formed mobs because Joseph Smith was sending out his Danite terror squads to attack them.

Oh this is rich... terror squads? This must be some kind of joke... well I guess not... The only terror squads going on in those days were mobs that lynched people, destroyed their homes and tarred and feathered the Mormons as they called them.
And just exactly what were our ads trying to pull?

Well that stuff because science has already thoroughly debunked it.

Really? where? link?

We know today that the Native Americans crossed over from Asia far earlier than 900 BC. They did not ride elephants or horses, use coins or swords, build towered cities or anything else Smith attributed to them.

Goes to show you've never read the Book of Mormon, which holds that the first people to arrive here came right after the tower of Babel incident. Roughly 2500 to 3000 years ago from the Asiatic area. fail on your part.
Second the Book of Mormon never claims that Elephants or Horses were actually ridden, but I think it would be a foregone conclusion that that's what you do with those animals when domesticated. But the evidence clearly shows they were there at the time. Simply because you say they didn't happen doesn't count as an argument. I have provided hard articles which you still have not disputed. Scientists that ignore them because they are afraid of giving the Book of Mormon any credibility are the same as you. Ignorant. Science should not be ignored simply because it agrees with a religious document. It's a form of denial to claim something is false yet never reviewed with any kind of professionalism. Yet "scientists" do this all the time when new findings challenge their dogmas.

No, findings need to be PEER REVIEWED. Mormons claim all sorts of stuff, and non-LDS scientists have debunked it.

Show me where the peers even did a fair review of our findings, then debunked any of them... Happy searching. All you'll find is a masquerade of claims that the findings are false with, like you, no opposing facts to prove the findings false.

Again, link up.

Prop 8 opened the door for a federal finding that gay marriage is a right, if the 9th Circuit and SCOTUS upholds that position. So it would be funny if the Zombies emptied their bank accounts and ended up making it the law of the whole country- even Utah.

But, Frankly, why is it any of your business what non-LDS gays do?

a Federal finding? That's hilarious. So they performed an excavation of the constitution and found that gay marriage is a right? I'd like to see the constitutional language that shows that.
First Gay Marriage is not even a thing. It doesn't exist. At least not yet. It's a new phrase that never existed until that agenda decided to coin the phrase. Marriage is defined as a man and a woman. There were no "findings". What they decided is to try and redefine marriage. That's officially what they're trying to do. Due to popular ideas pushed by left wing manipulists, some have formed the idea that gays are born that way and therefore are legitimate. It's all a smokescreen trying to legitimize sick/disgusting behavior.
And as you can derive, I'm sure, we don't care what the government rules with regard to God's laws. The government is just a reflection on the appeals of certain groups of society and not authoritative to God's laws of the universe.

Gay people can get married if they choose to. They just choose not to partner with members of the opposite sex. So it's really up to them. They need treatment, not enabling.

Well, that's true. Hoffman got a pass on two murders because the Mormons didn't want the world known they got scammed.

Of course you believe such speculation. It's a free country. Respectfully disagree.

Actually, that's pretty sick. David couldn't have been that bothered by losing that baby, since he had dozens of wives and concubines. Hell, they don't even tell us the baby's name, that's how unimportant it was. If David Sinned, God should punish David, not an innocent.

So you're claiming that because he had many wives, he couldn't have cared about his children? You clearly have no clue about human behavior, let alone ancient human behavior. Remember, it was still his child. Volume of children doesn't let you care less about each individual. You either care about your kids or you don't. The numbers mean nothing. Are we sure the original auther knew the baby's name? We don't know that. But the point of the story is not the name of a character but the lesson taught. In this case the lesson taught to David. And again I repeat, David was punished in this situation far worse than the baby.
I understand your position, because you believe the baby was robbed of life forever and if that were true I would be on your side and against all religions as well. But there is a life after this and that baby has it far better than David.

Effective brainwashing.

Please break down the pyschology of my brainwashing for the benefit of the class.

I met some of you Zombies in 1983. They were the most backstabbing, two-faced M-Fers I ever met in my life. That was before I realized all the batshit crazy stuff you believe. So today I take great pleasure in mocking you. I will take great pleasure when Mitt Romney goes down in flames.

I'll add Zombies to the ever growing list of insults. Well I've never met a zombie, let alone a mormon zombie so you've met a rare breed indeed. I'd say if that was all you ever met then you're not giving the rest of us much of a fair shake. But that's not really your M.O. is it? You're kindof a shoot first and never ask questions later or ever guy. Humor me with a few specifics of your mormon zombie encounter so I'll actually be able to give a decent response or you may call it a "peer review" if you will.

Brigham was a murdering, tyrannical child molestor, and it would have been nice if President Buchanan took him out and hanged him and all the other Mormon leaders after the "Utah War". That would have sent a nice message to Davis and Lee.

another unsubstantiated slander on Young's character, followed by a bloodthirsty death wish. Man you'd fit right in in Missouri circa 1840 or Germany circa 1940.

YOu said you wouldn't try to justify murder, but then you try to excuse them by saying they were "frustrated and angry".

I never tried to excuse them ever. Please don't put words in my mouth. I condemned the murderers from MMM. You really need to learn reading comprehension... But more likely you understood me perfectly the first time but are trying to twist my words. I will repeat, those murderers were not justified but must be condemned for their actions and will stand accountable before God for their actions.
I merely was explaining their motivation. They were frustrated about their own persecutions and instead turned to Satan to gain revenge on the wrong people. There were misunderstandings which led to their overreaction and murder. But whatever their case they should have left the Arkansas wagon party alone and none of their actions were justified. Clear enough for you?

Which is of course, horseshit. The Mormons just saw these people as an easy source of stealable loot. Kill them, steal their stuff, and blame the Indians.

Correction, a few mormons, not "The Mormons".
If you did any real study, you'll see "The Mormons" excommunicated those members involved and turned them over to the law, except the fugitives who ran away. But I believe even they were eventually caught, tried and sentenced to death.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Avatar, I was asking for proof, which is something that has empirical evidence, i.e. provable by scientific methods. If you see something, hear something or feel something that you can't prove to someone else with TANGIBLE evidence, you may be schizophrenic, or just simply deluded.

Truth, your story about Lincecum doesn't make any sense, His Cy Youngs can be proven with tangible facts, like I can prove that he exists, baseball exists, the award exists, and that his stats prove that he's a good pitcher. So saying that he might win the Cy Young is not faith, it's an educated guess. Whereas in religion, nothing in the bible or any other books can be proven (I'm talking about the big stuff, i.e. floods, ark, walking on water, burning bush... not whether such and such city existed).

my example of faith was circa 2005 before he won his awards. I believed he would, then a couple years later, he did. There was no proof that he would win them. Only a belief.

Sorry but that argument suffers an epic fail because your baseball faith isn't really faith, the belief in Faith, in Christianity, has been most commonly defined by the biblical formulation in the Epistle to the Hebrews (11:1) as "'the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen", in other words, faith by definition is the belief of something that can't be proven. So the baseball thing is an educated guess based on real stats, events... not religious faith. Faith that your wife will bring some milk home is completely different from religious faith someone might have in an invisible and unprovable superbeing.

Wow impressive! This is the first time you've made an acceptable statement with any real effort given to the concept of faith or anything else for that matter. Of course faith in God and faith in Tim Lincecum's pitching ability are two different things, I was just trying to dumb it down so you would begin to understand a little about faith. I know it's not a perfect analogy, but you must be corrected. Believing a pitcher would win an award is much more uncertain than your wife bringing home milk, which is 100% certain. Anyway I applaud you giving real thought to this. Now I will upgrade my discussions with you.

You're right faith is believing in things which often times are not seen with physical eyes. But that's the point. The greater faith you have, the more God will reveal knowledge to you and prove more things to you. If you want proof, then God will prove more things to you by concrete means than any school or institution.
That being said those concrete means can come in physical tangible form or even harder evidence by spiritual means. That comes through the hard work and exertion of meditation and prayer.
That is our position. You may choose to discount spiritual proof all you want but it is one thing that can't be denied once revealed. That's why we are so firm in our stances, because we've seen and felt things you simply haven't. It's 100% certain knowledge. That's why we can't deny it. You don't get it so you just say wer're deluded. It's the easy way out to attack those who claim to know something you don't. Rather than try to discredit, why don't you put in the work, study, and prayer to find out for sure for yourself?

 

[Truthspeaker]

Avatar, I was asking for proof, which is something that has empirical evidence, i.e. provable by scientific methods. If you see something, hear something or feel something that you can't prove to someone else with TANGIBLE evidence, you may be schizophrenic, or just simply deluded.

Truth, your story about Lincecum doesn't make any sense, His Cy Youngs can be proven with tangible facts, like I can prove that he exists, baseball exists, the award exists, and that his stats prove that he's a good pitcher. So saying that he might win the Cy Young is not faith, it's an educated guess. Whereas in religion, nothing in the bible or any other books can be proven (I'm talking about the big stuff, i.e. floods, ark, walking on water, burning bush... not whether such and such city existed).

Not my fault you don't want to go through the experiment. You want science. I provided you a way where you can obtain such evidence through science.

What you really want is someone else to do the work. Because if you sincerely wanted to know, you'd seek the answer and experiment on the Word.

It's sad really. You can know. But you deny yourself the blessings because you won't put in the effort.

C'mon man seriously? You think that the bible is science?
It's just a bunch of made up stories that if you believe them all, then I guess you would believe in god, but those stories always seemed to me to be laughable as truths.
You might as well base your life on the world of dungeons and dragons. They have some cool books too.

fantastic claims are not false because they're fantastic. Remember truth is often stranger than fiction and more fantastic for that matter.

 

[Monnagonna]

Not my fault you don't want to go through the experiment. You want science. I provided you a way where you can obtain such evidence through science.

What you really want is someone else to do the work. Because if you sincerely wanted to know, you'd seek the answer and experiment on the Word.

It's sad really. You can know. But you deny yourself the blessings because you won't put in the effort.

C'mon man seriously? You think that the bible is science?
It's just a bunch of made up stories that if you believe them all, then I guess you would believe in god, but those stories always seemed to me to be laughable as truths.
You might as well base your life on the world of dungeons and dragons. They have some cool books too.

fantastic claims are not false because they're fantastic. Remember truth is often stranger than fiction and more fantastic for that matter.

You're saying that the bible and the book of mormons is science, sorry bro, but that's ridiculous. We'll start with the first story of the bible: the world was made in 6 days. That's science? Hmmm...

 

[Avatar4321]

C'mon man seriously? You think that the bible is science?
It's just a bunch of made up stories that if you believe them all, then I guess you would believe in god, but those stories always seemed to me to be laughable as truths.
You might as well base your life on the world of dungeons and dragons. They have some cool books too.

fantastic claims are not false because they're fantastic. Remember truth is often stranger than fiction and more fantastic for that matter.

You're saying that the bible and the book of mormons is science, sorry bro, but that's ridiculous. We'll start with the first story of the bible: the world was made in 6 days. That's science? Hmmm...

He said nothing about science. I provided you with a scientific experiment. One by which you can learn for yourself whether things are of God. I've experimented on the Word and I've learned that it's good. I've learned it's truth.

You can only learn the truth by conducting your own experiment. Study the Word. Experiment on it by applying it in your life. As you do this, the Lord will reveal Himself.

But unfortunately, you are resistant to the idea. You want us to be able to give you the answer. That's not how faith works. Evidence comes after exercising the faith necessary to experiment. Faith doesn't come from the evidence being provided before hand.

Until you are willing to study and pray for yourself, you will never know for yourself. If you are alright with that, that's fine. It's sad, but it's fine. That's your choice. Personally, I don't know how anyone doesn't want to know everything there is to know.

 

[Monnagonna]

fantastic claims are not false because they're fantastic. Remember truth is often stranger than fiction and more fantastic for that matter.

You're saying that the bible and the book of mormons is science, sorry bro, but that's ridiculous. We'll start with the first story of the bible: the world was made in 6 days. That's science? Hmmm...

He said nothing about science. I provided you with a scientific experiment. One by which you can learn for yourself whether things are of God. I've experimented on the Word and I've learned that it's good. I've learned it's truth.

You can only learn the truth by conducting your own experiment. Study the Word. Experiment on it by applying it in your life. As you do this, the Lord will reveal Himself.

But unfortunately, you are resistant to the idea. You want us to be able to give you the answer. That's not how faith works. Evidence comes after exercising the faith necessary to experiment. Faith doesn't come from the evidence being provided before hand.

Until you are willing to study and pray for yourself, you will never know for yourself. If you are alright with that, that's fine. It's sad, but it's fine. That's your choice. Personally, I don't know how anyone doesn't want to know everything there is to know.

You like to think that anyone who doesn't agree with you is because they haven't read "the Book". Buddy, I went to sunday school, then regular church and did my elementary and high school in a Catholic religious type school run by priests, with religion classes and the whole 9 yards. I've yet to come across any solid proof of a god.

 

[Christopher]

You're saying that the bible and the book of mormons is science, sorry bro, but that's ridiculous. We'll start with the first story of the bible: the world was made in 6 days. That's science? Hmmm...

He said nothing about science. I provided you with a scientific experiment. One by which you can learn for yourself whether things are of God. I've experimented on the Word and I've learned that it's good. I've learned it's truth.

You can only learn the truth by conducting your own experiment. Study the Word. Experiment on it by applying it in your life. As you do this, the Lord will reveal Himself.

But unfortunately, you are resistant to the idea. You want us to be able to give you the answer. That's not how faith works. Evidence comes after exercising the faith necessary to experiment. Faith doesn't come from the evidence being provided before hand.

Until you are willing to study and pray for yourself, you will never know for yourself. If you are alright with that, that's fine. It's sad, but it's fine. That's your choice. Personally, I don't know how anyone doesn't want to know everything there is to know.

You like to think that anyone who doesn't agree with you is because they haven't read "the Book". Buddy, I went to sunday school, then regular church and did my elementary and high school in a Catholic religious type school run by priests, with religion classes and the whole 9 yards. I've yet to come across any solid proof of a god.

Read what Avatar posted again. There were two steps in the experiment. Yet, you only mentioned the first, reading the Bible. The second step was to actually live by the teachings. Other ingredients include an open heart, humility, honesty, and sincerity.

 

[Monnagonna]

He said nothing about science. I provided you with a scientific experiment. One by which you can learn for yourself whether things are of God. I've experimented on the Word and I've learned that it's good. I've learned it's truth.

You can only learn the truth by conducting your own experiment. Study the Word. Experiment on it by applying it in your life. As you do this, the Lord will reveal Himself.

But unfortunately, you are resistant to the idea. You want us to be able to give you the answer. That's not how faith works. Evidence comes after exercising the faith necessary to experiment. Faith doesn't come from the evidence being provided before hand.

Until you are willing to study and pray for yourself, you will never know for yourself. If you are alright with that, that's fine. It's sad, but it's fine. That's your choice. Personally, I don't know how anyone doesn't want to know everything there is to know.

You like to think that anyone who doesn't agree with you is because they haven't read "the Book". Buddy, I went to sunday school, then regular church and did my elementary and high school in a Catholic religious type school run by priests, with religion classes and the whole 9 yards. I've yet to come across any solid proof of a god.

Read what Avatar posted again. There were two steps in the experiment. Yet, you only mentioned the first, reading the Bible. The second step was to actually live by the teachings. Other ingredients include an open heart, humility, honesty, and sincerity.

Here again, you're assuming that I don't have an open heart, I'm not honest or sincere... (ok, I'm not all that humble, lol).
I understand the teachings: an eye for an eye (which I don't subscribe to)... and live by some that make sense to me like helping others... but they lose me at the son of god, going to hell... mumbo jumbo every time.

 

[Christopher]

You like to think that anyone who doesn't agree with you is because they haven't read "the Book". Buddy, I went to sunday school, then regular church and did my elementary and high school in a Catholic religious type school run by priests, with religion classes and the whole 9 yards. I've yet to come across any solid proof of a god.

Read what Avatar posted again. There were two steps in the experiment. Yet, you only mentioned the first, reading the Bible. The second step was to actually live by the teachings. Other ingredients include an open heart, humility, honesty, and sincerity.

Here again, you're assuming that I don't have an open heart, I'm not honest or sincere... (ok, I'm not all that humble, lol).
I understand the teachings: an eye for an eye (which I don't subscribe to)... and live by some that make sense to me like helping others... but they lose me at the son of god, going to hell... mumbo jumbo every time.

I don't believe I've ever responded to a post by you, so I couldn't be assuming something about you "again". Actually, I was not assuming about you.

You don't seem to understand the teachings if you think that Christians are to follow the "eye for an eye" teaching today. By the way, humility is probably the hardest for most people to achieve including myself.

 

[Avatar4321]

Here again, you're assuming that I don't have an open heart, I'm not honest or sincere... (ok, I'm not all that humble, lol).
I understand the teachings: an eye for an eye (which I don't subscribe to)... and live by some that make sense to me like helping others... but they lose me at the son of god, going to hell... mumbo jumbo every time.

Then experiment on the word. If you have an open mind, conduct the experiment. Put your trust in God. Try living what He teaches to find out for yourself whether it's true or not.

You want to claim to have an open mind but wont make the slightest effort to try it. Study the Book of Mormon and Bible. Pray. Practice what God teaches to find out for yourself. It's not really complicated. The biggest obstacle is how willing one truly is to find out for themselves.

Because thats the only way you will ever know. That's how Peter learned. That's how I've learned. God doesn't want us depending on others. He provides people to teach us, but they are supposed to teach us how to approach Him ourselves and learn for ourselves.

 

[JoeB131]

Here again, you're assuming that I don't have an open heart, I'm not honest or sincere... (ok, I'm not all that humble, lol).
I understand the teachings: an eye for an eye (which I don't subscribe to)... and live by some that make sense to me like helping others... but they lose me at the son of god, going to hell... mumbo jumbo every time.

Then experiment on the word. If you have an open mind, conduct the experiment. Put your trust in God. Try living what He teaches to find out for yourself whether it's true or not.

You want to claim to have an open mind but wont make the slightest effort to try it. Study the Book of Mormon and Bible. Pray. Practice what God teaches to find out for yourself. It's not really complicated. The biggest obstacle is how willing one truly is to find out for themselves.

Because thats the only way you will ever know. That's how Peter learned. That's how I've learned. God doesn't want us depending on others. He provides people to teach us, but they are supposed to teach us how to approach Him ourselves and learn for ourselves.

The Bible was a book written by ignorant Bronze age sheepherders who didn't know where the sun went at night. The Book of Mormon was written by a petty con man who wanted to pork 14 year old girls. Neither has anything of worth to offer.

 

[Monnagonna]

I kinda hafta agree with Joe. But here, link me up with the Book of Mormons chapter that will get me started, I'd be interested to check it out.