The Truth about Mormons

[JoeB131]

Do we really need the insults? I love talking about the Restoration of the Gospel. But the petty attacks are just pointless.

I want to edify and be edified. Not insult people. If you guys want a real discussion let me know. ill be holding back till then.

Well, since I think that the human species would be vastly better off if we completely eradicated religion, you probably are talking to the wrong crowd....

 

[JakeStarkey]

Sigh. Joe you are "the wrong crowd" here, because atheism has nothing to offer to mankind.

 

[JoeB131]

Sigh. Joe you are "the wrong crowd" here, because atheism has nothing to offer to mankind.

Why you are right, Atheism hasn't offered any of the following-

Religious wars.
Torture of Heretics
Burning of "Witches"
Suppression of Science
Crusades
Hiding pedophile clergy
Oppression of women
Sexual repression.

I can proudly say that Atheists haven't done any of that shit. And we don't much like be lectured to the by the people who have.

 

[Monnagonna]

Truth has no problem handling the likes of a Joe the Slow or you, monnagonna.

Coming from the Ultimate Simpleton Champion.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Atheism has offered its equivalent in communist USSR and China.

Tis what tis.

You guys are very, very weak.

 

[Monnagonna]

Atheism has offered its equivalent in communist USSR and China.

Tis what tis.

You guys are very, very weak.

Even though I'm not an atheist, I'm an agnostic: nothing has been proven either way, communism was/is still way better that theocratic states like Saudi Arabia or Iran.

Sorry Ringo, you lose again. Better luck next time.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Atheism has offered its equivalent in communist USSR and China.

Tis what tis.

You guys are very, very weak.

Even though I'm not an atheist, I'm an agnostic: nothing has been proven either way, communism was/is still way better that theocratic states like Saudi Arabia or Iran.

Sorry Ringo, you lose again. Better luck next time.

You have a right to your sincere opinion, although you are sincerely wrong. You have offered nothing to counter the point. Blind belief in atheism or in religion brings bad, bad things. Look at the triumphalist Protestant south after the Civil War to the 1960s.

 

[Monnagonna]

Atheism has offered its equivalent in communist USSR and China.

Tis what tis.

You guys are very, very weak.

Even though I'm not an atheist, I'm an agnostic: nothing has been proven either way, communism was/is still way better that theocratic states like Saudi Arabia or Iran.

Sorry Ringo, you lose again. Better luck next time.

You have a right to your sincere opinion, although you are sincerely wrong. You have offered nothing to counter the point. Blind belief in atheism or in religion brings bad, bad things. Look at the triumphalist Protestant south after the Civil War to the 1960s.

I agree, that's why I'm agnostic.

 

[Avatar4321]

Atheism has offered its equivalent in communist USSR and China.

Tis what tis.

You guys are very, very weak.

Even though I'm not an atheist, I'm an agnostic: nothing has been proven either way, communism was/is still way better that theocratic states like Saudi Arabia or Iran.

Sorry Ringo, you lose again. Better luck next time.

It hasn't been proven to you because you dont bother seeking the answer.

No one knows whether there is a God at first. It's only through their search for answers do they find them. I didn't know at first. But I learned the truth.

Maybe you ought to put in the effort to understand instead of mock.

 

[Monnagonna]

Atheism has offered its equivalent in communist USSR and China.

Tis what tis.

You guys are very, very weak.

Even though I'm not an atheist, I'm an agnostic: nothing has been proven either way, communism was/is still way better that theocratic states like Saudi Arabia or Iran.

Sorry Ringo, you lose again. Better luck next time.

It hasn't been proven to you because you dont bother seeking the answer.

No one knows whether there is a God at first. It's only through their search for answers do they find them. I didn't know at first. But I learned the truth.

Maybe you ought to put in the effort to understand instead of mock.

There is no proof of a god, especially not one invented by that imbecile jo smith.

 

[Truthspeaker]

YOu poke a Latter-Day Zombie enough times, it goes right into the crazy...

How so? I also noticed your response had no response to several of my responses. Good I'll take it you concede those points. Moving on...

Quite the contrary, he can be both and he was. I think he was a slick con-man early in his career, but probably started believing his own bullshit by the time he was mercifully put out of his misery by the Carthage mob. Kind of Like L. Ron Hubbard. Early in his career, when he was telling his fellow Sci-Fi writers how he could make up a fake religion and get stupid people to make him rich, he knew it was a scam. By the end of it when he was getting sex from teenage girls on his boat, hiding from numerous governments... yeah, he was actually getting high on his own supply. And so was Smith.

I have no knowledge of L. Ron Hubbard so I can't speak for him... but if you give him the same "fair" shake you've given Smith then I'm skeptical as to all the things you've accused him of.
Your argument that you can both be a slick intelligent con-man while at the same time being deluded, simply is a fools argument. You're either one or the other. It makes no logical sense that a person can do both. A deluded person is on the street holding up signs like "The End is Near". That's delusion. A con man is Hitler, a con man is Bernie Madoff.
You see the difference between deluded and con man. It's impossible for an intelligent con-man to be deluded. He knows exactly what he's doing and calculates his plans very precisely.

My my, "racist white crackers"? That's kinda like saying "racist black *******" isn't it? It goes both ways. How can you accuse someone of being racist and then make a racial slur all in the same sentence? Your credibility continues to decline.

No, I'm a white guy who realizes that the stain on our honor as a nation will continue until we acknowledge our own evil.To the point, we slaughtered the native Americans (I am also part Cherokee) and people like Smith just couldn't abide by the thought that Native Americans accomplished great things.

So you have a white man complex? It seems someone has convinced you that you were responsible for all the bad things our triple-great grandparents did. Well even if you believe you would have done those bad things, you still didn't do them. You may not have murdered millions of Native Americans but you would have joined the Missouri mobs agains the Mormons, so how much more moral are you?
And it appears you ignored my copied and pasted quote from Joseph Smith attributing the amazing achievements of ancient america to native americans. You also ignored quotes showing that Native Americans are of the House of Israel. The Book of Mormon is clear on this issue and prophesies the return of their greatness. Please read.

So he made up these fairy stories about Hebrews in the Americas. And he didn't even make them up, he plagarized them from Rev. Solomon Spalding's unpublished novel, Manuscript found. There's even a part about golden plate in there.

Before we even begin to address this please show me what part from the book he's supposed to have plagiarized and then I'll show you where you're greatly grasping for straws.

Now ignoring LDS archeology, which has all the credibility of "Creation Science", let's move on to this..

Of course it's in your best interests to ignore the archaeology I've shown you. Solid archaeology is not your friend in this discussion. Now whether the excavator is LDS or Hindu, what should it matter? Findings are findings right?

The Church never does anything directly. Like when it tells the faithful Zombies to empty out their bank accounts to fund fights against gay marriage, and they all do so.

Never does anything directly? Well they directly asked us to fight this evil homosexual propagandist agenda. That was rather direct and we're proud of our stance. Disagree where you may, but we're not going to be pushed around by pro-homosexual bullies.
Thank God we won and will continue to win on this issue.

But, yeah, the thing was, the Salamander Letter came out, and instead of declaring it a fake THAT DAY, they tried to intrepret it, because Smith was into enough weird shit they'd spent the last century trying to wallpaper over.

The last century we've spent a lot more time on a lot more important things than a phony salamander letter. Sometimes people try to fool our leaders and sometimes it works for a little while but it doesn't matter. The truth always comes out and the insignificance of such things always fades away.

Yes, I am.

Your admittance of being a bloodthirsty person damages your credibility beyond repair.

I don't tolerate any of you people.

This should be a bumper sticker on the back of your VW.

You're a model of tolerance and behavior. Gotta love the guy who uses the phrase "you people."

An omnipotent being whose "go to" answer is to drown all the babies (not to mention all the puppies and kitties, too!) isn't worthy of anything but my contempt. Really. That was the best solution he could come up with? Besides all the scientific absurdity of the Flood Story, I think it tells a lot about the God the Hebrews worshipped.

If there was no life after this then I would be completely on your side on this one. However, there is a life after this, and it's a whole lot better than this one and that baby is going to live a full life in a much better environment than the poisonous one David created. So God, in his wisdom decided to guarantee eternal life to that baby. His ways are not our ways and it is tough for people to understand if they don't know the mind of God or even trust His decisions.

2 Samuel 12:1 And the LORD sent Nathan unto David. (skip the dumb parable part)

12:7 And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man. Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul;
12:8 And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things."
12:9 Wherefore hast thou despised the commandment of the LORD, to do evil in his sight? thou hast killed Uriah the Hittite with the sword, and hast taken his wife to be thy wife, and hast slain him with the sword of the children of Ammon.

12:14 Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die. 12:15 And Nathan departed unto his house. And the LORD struck the child that Uriah's wife bare unto David, and it was very sick.
12:18 And it came to pass on the seventh day, that the child died. And the servants of David feared to tell him that the child was dead: for they said, Behold, while the child was yet alive, we spake unto him, and he would not hearken unto our voice: how will he then vex himself, if we tell him that the child is dead?

God didn't punish the baby by doing this... He punished David. The Baby has eternal life.

That's the God you worship. He killed David's baby for what David did. Sick! I decided to have no part of him a long time ago.

Yes it is the God I worship. I can understand your position but you don't understand God's or the baby's position. David lost his exhaltation for his sins with the Uriah case.

And that's your problem. Belonging to a religion is letting lesser intellects do your thinking for you. I figured this out when I was 10.

Ok so if by your concept, my intellect is greater than that of our leaders, then how could they possess the intellect to deceive me into believing their ideas for 30 years? Eventually the superior intellect would figure out that he's been duped and rebel against the religion. Well it hasn't happened to me yet.

The problem with you Mormons is that when people get past all the fakey nice act you all put on and realize the crazy bullshit you all believe, you get pretty upset when we point out it's bullshit.

Actions are not fake. talk is cheap and will eventually be found out as true or fake. But actions don't lie. Did you ever consider that we are actually just nice people? One could argue that I haven't been nice to you, but at least i've given you the respect to hear your questions and statements. I also haven't wished death on you or called you the names you've called me.
Now I missed the part where I was ever upset... Did that happen somewhere? You don't possess the capability to make me upset, unless I were to meet you in person or you harmed my family.

Guy, I don't have the time and patience to rehash 500 pages of Mormon apologetics to get to the point where you claim it was okay the LDS slaughtered those people and Brigham Young didn't know diddly about it.

Guy, I do have the time... But i'll never get to the point of justifying any murder. Some LDS members carried out a terrible crime for which they've already stood accountable before the law and the church. One day they will stand accountable before God.
They were frustrated and angry and sought to take revenge on the wrong people. That is not God's way. Brigham Young, who got word of the incident too late told them in a message, which arrived too late, by horse and buggy, to leave those people alone.
If you've ever studied any of the teachings of Brigham Young you would realize that it would be completely out of character for him to order such a thing. It defies all logic. Especially for someone who understands accountability in the next life. Brigham tried to save those people but was too late. Brigham was a great man and that bothers people like you.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Why you are right, Atheism hasn't offered any of the following-

Religious wars.
Torture of Heretics
Burning of "Witches"
Suppression of Science
Crusades
Hiding pedophile clergy
Oppression of women
Sexual repression.

So no religious wars? How about regular wars?
No burning of witches? How about burning of Christians?
Science is science. It cannot be suppressed. Especially true Science.
No crusades? How about other wars?
No pedophile clergy? How about pedophiles?
Oppression of women? How many human trafficking groups attend church regularly eh?
Sexual repression? I guess it depends on which religion you're talking about?

I can proudly say that Atheists haven't done any of that shit. And we don't much like be lectured to the by the people who have.[/QUOTE]

 

[Truthspeaker]

Atheism has offered its equivalent in communist USSR and China.

Tis what tis.

You guys are very, very weak.

Even though I'm not an atheist, I'm an agnostic: nothing has been proven either way, communism was/is still way better that theocratic states like Saudi Arabia or Iran.

Sorry Ringo, you lose again. Better luck next time.

Both suck, but we're a little off topic again.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Even though I'm not an atheist, I'm an agnostic: nothing has been proven either way, communism was/is still way better that theocratic states like Saudi Arabia or Iran.

Sorry Ringo, you lose again. Better luck next time.

It hasn't been proven to you because you dont bother seeking the answer.

No one knows whether there is a God at first. It's only through their search for answers do they find them. I didn't know at first. But I learned the truth.

Maybe you ought to put in the effort to understand instead of mock.

There is no proof of a god, especially not one invented by that imbecile jo smith.

You've convinced yourself that there is no proof so that when proof comes by, you don't recognize it. You're not looking for proof because you don't care if there is a God or not.

I also see you can't make up your mind whether Joseph Smith is an imbecile or a con-man. Which is your stance. Sorry can't be both.

 

[Monnagonna]

It hasn't been proven to you because you dont bother seeking the answer.

No one knows whether there is a God at first. It's only through their search for answers do they find them. I didn't know at first. But I learned the truth.

Maybe you ought to put in the effort to understand instead of mock.

There is no proof of a god, especially not one invented by that imbecile jo smith.

You've convinced yourself that there is no proof so that when proof comes by, you don't recognize it. You're not looking for proof because you don't care if there is a God or not.

I also see you can't make up your mind whether Joseph Smith is an imbecile or a con-man. Which is your stance. Sorry can't be both.

Ok einstein, tell me about your most 100% provable proof that a god exists.

 

[HUGGY]

Atheism has offered its equivalent in communist USSR and China.

Tis what tis.

You guys are very, very weak.

Even though I'm not an atheist, I'm an agnostic: nothing has been proven either way, communism was/is still way better that theocratic states like Saudi Arabia or Iran.

Sorry Ringo, you lose again. Better luck next time.

You have a right to your sincere opinion, although you are sincerely wrong. You have offered nothing to counter the point. Blind belief in atheism or in religion brings bad, bad things. Look at the triumphalist Protestant south after the Civil War to the 1960s.

Jake I don't "believe" you understand how the mind of some atheists work.

I believe a picnic would be more pleasant without the ants.

I believe the yard would be safer without the hornets nest under the eve.

I believe the human race would have a better chance of evolving to a level that matches our challenges without being held back and wasting resources on religion.

In short "Atheism" is just the ability to call bullshit to obvious bunk. It is not a "religion". It is critical thinking and a discipline of ones thoughts.

It is not my responsibility to sort out the lies and nonsense from the bible from the obvious common truths. I'm not some ignorant peasant stuck in the mid east near the time of Christs birth. The rubbish strewn throughout the Bible makes it ridiculous as a whole. There is no "atheist" equivalent to the bible. We rely on a broad foundation of education and an ability to reject bad information. No one can get it all right because no one knows that much about everything. BUT no one can get ANYTHING right if one does not make an effort to take in accurate and truthful information. Every time you "fudge" and accept an obvious lie as truth you reduce your ability to know the difference.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Even though I'm not an atheist, I'm an agnostic: nothing has been proven either way, communism was/is still way better that theocratic states like Saudi Arabia or Iran.

Sorry Ringo, you lose again. Better luck next time.

You have a right to your sincere opinion, although you are sincerely wrong. You have offered nothing to counter the point. Blind belief in atheism or in religion brings bad, bad things. Look at the triumphalist Protestant south after the Civil War to the 1960s.

Jake I don't "believe" you understand how the mind of some atheists work.

I believe a picnic would be more pleasant without the ants.

I believe the yard would be safer without the hornets nest under the eve.

I believe the human race would have a better chance of evolving to a level that matches our challenges without being held back and wasting resources on religion.

What you've described is not faith or belief at all... You're describing knowledge. There is no faith required to assume a yard is better without a Hornet's nest in it. Such a critical thinker but you don't understand what faith is.
Faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things. It is a hope that something is true before actually seeing concrete proof of it combined with actions based on the assumption of it being true.

Example: I believed Tim Lincecum would win a Cy Young award before he ever did in the Major Leagues. Two Cy Young's later, my faith evolved into a knowledge that Tim Lincecum is a Cy Young award winning pitcher.

Bad Example Circa 2005: I'll believe Lincecum will win a Cy Young when I see it...

In short "Atheism" is just the ability to call bullshit to obvious bunk. It is not a "religion". It is critical thinking and a discipline of ones thoughts.

In fact Atheism exhibits mental laziness and doesn't critically think about facts beyond their own nose. They don't consider the possibility that spirit exists, so therefore their critical thinking skills are juvenile. It is a lame excuse for arrogance. To think you know it all because you've seen it all. And if you haven't seen it, it must be false.

It is not my responsibility to sort out the lies and nonsense from the bible from the obvious common truths.

You're right... it's not your responsibility. but if you don't have the desire to sort out things found in scripture and reason them and pray about them then you are going to always remain in ignorance with regard to them. You will think you've figured it out, but really you've never tried to learn spiritual truths. It's not easy to come by spiritual knowledge. But you want things to be easy. It doesn't work that way. You have to care enough to search... Bottom line is you really don't care enough to do that.

I'm not some ignorant peasant stuck in the mid east near the time of Christs birth.

Another arrogant statement claiming that you are so much smarter than people who lived in the past and are therefore superior enough to call them names.

The rubbish strewn throughout the Bible makes it ridiculous as a whole. There is no "atheist" equivalent to the bible. We rely on a broad foundation of education and an ability to reject bad information.

This is a riot... any information that doesn't fit your agenda is considered bad information... contrast that with my stance. Let's look at all the information secular and spiritual.
You shouldn't exclude things because they challenge your preconceived notions.

No one can get it all right because no one knows that much about everything. BUT no one can get ANYTHING right if one does not make an effort to take in accurate and truthful information.

What do you mean by "accurate and truthful."?

Every time you "fudge" and accept an obvious lie as truth you reduce your ability to know the difference.

I would agree 100% now how do you know something is an "obvious lie"? And who's fudging anything?

 

[Avatar4321]

Even though I'm not an atheist, I'm an agnostic: nothing has been proven either way, communism was/is still way better that theocratic states like Saudi Arabia or Iran.

Sorry Ringo, you lose again. Better luck next time.

It hasn't been proven to you because you dont bother seeking the answer.

No one knows whether there is a God at first. It's only through their search for answers do they find them. I didn't know at first. But I learned the truth.

Maybe you ought to put in the effort to understand instead of mock.

There is no proof of a god, especially not one invented by that imbecile jo smith.

And you know this without doing anything to learn. I wish learning was really that easy.

 

[Avatar4321]

There is no proof of a god, especially not one invented by that imbecile jo smith.

You've convinced yourself that there is no proof so that when proof comes by, you don't recognize it. You're not looking for proof because you don't care if there is a God or not.

I also see you can't make up your mind whether Joseph Smith is an imbecile or a con-man. Which is your stance. Sorry can't be both.

Ok einstein, tell me about your most 100% provable proof that a god exists.

If you see God, you hear His voice, feel Him, etc. Then don't you have 100% proof that God exists? What if someone else doesn't? Do you have any less proof because someone else hasn't seen, heard, or felt Him?

Now most of us don't see Him. (Though it has happened). But would feeling or hearing be any less proof to us? We don't see the wind, but we can feel and hear it. We can see it's presence. So being unable to see something regularly cannot lower 100% proof can it?

Regardless, we can still see the effects of God in our life. We can learn of Him the same way Peter did. Directly from Him. If we keep the commandments we have been given a promise that we will know whether the they are from God. So logically, we should be testing the principles God teaches us. And when we do that, He will show us.

Take the Principle of Tithing for one. The Lord asks us to give Him 10% of what He has blessed us with. And if we do that He will open the windows of heaven and pour out so many blessings that we can scarce receive it. How do you find out if that promise is true? By testing it. You pay tithing in faith and see what the Lord does.

The same is true with all the doctrines. You test them by living them. And by doing that you will know.

Now, we will compare the word unto a seed. Now, if ye give place, that a seed may be planted in your heart, behold, if it be a true seed, or a good seed, if ye do not cast it out by your unbelief, that ye will resist the Spirit of the Lord, behold, it will begin to swell within your breasts; and when you feel these swelling motions, ye will begin to say within yourselves—It must needs be that this is a good seed, or that the word is good, for it beginneth to enlarge my soul; yea, it beginneth to enlighten my understanding, yea, it beginneth to be delicious to me.([URL="http://lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/32?lang=eng#"]Alma 32:28[/URL])

You can find out for yourself. Ill issue you a challenge. Study for yourself. Pray to God. Even if you don't know if there is a God, pray to Him in order to learn. Even if all you could do is believe that it might be possible for God to answer you. If that's all the faith you have. Be honest and sincere. If you don't know there is a God tell Him. And tell Him you will just assume that if He is there He can and may answer in His own good time.

And then study. Read the Book of Mormon. Read the Bible. Study the scriptures and more. Think things out. Pray every day. Don't just read but apply what you are reading. Eliminate the lies in your life. Look for ways to love your neighbor more. Serve your family. Flee from pornography, drugs, or any other addictions as much as you can. Just be sincere in your efforts.

Do this for a time period, Say 40 days and 40 nights. Be consistant with your praying. And I will promise you that you will find out for yourself that there truly is a God. You probably won't need 40 days. But 40 days and 40 nights is a significant number in the scriptures for some reason.

Do you have the courage to take the challenge?

 

[JoeB131]

[
I have no knowledge of L. Ron Hubbard so I can't speak for him... but if you give him the same "fair" shake you've given Smith then I'm skeptical as to all the things you've accused him of.
Your argument that you can both be a slick intelligent con-man while at the same time being deluded, simply is a fools argument. You're either one or the other. It makes no logical sense that a person can do both. A deluded person is on the street holding up signs like "The End is Near". That's delusion. A con man is Hitler, a con man is Bernie Madoff.
You see the difference between deluded and con man. It's impossible for an intelligent con-man to be deluded. He knows exactly what he's doing and calculates his plans very precisely.

quite the contrary, a con man can easily delude himself into believing the con. Human beings are social animals. We all tend to run in the same way. When a social dynamic is established, we tend to go with the flow. So yeah, Smith or Hubbard or Hitler could have started a movement knowing full well it was a scam, but can get caught up into to the point they start buying into it. Smith probably expected God to save him, as did Koresh, Hubbard or Hitler.

So you have a white man complex? It seems someone has convinced you that you were responsible for all the bad things our triple-great grandparents did. Well even if you believe you would have done those bad things, you still didn't do them. You may not have murdered millions of Native Americans but you would have joined the Missouri mobs agains the Mormons, so how much more moral are you?

No funny you should mention that. My mom was a Baptist from Missouri, and when she saw your con artist ads in the 1970's, she was pretty disgusted with what you guys were trying to pull. They seemed nice enough to me, but that was before I realized what you folks were...

The folks in Missouri formed mobs because Joseph Smith was sending out his Danite terror squads to attack them.

And it appears you ignored my copied and pasted quote from Joseph Smith attributing the amazing achievements of ancient america to native americans. You also ignored quotes showing that Native Americans are of the House of Israel. The Book of Mormon is clear on this issue and prophesies the return of their greatness. Please read.

Well that stuff because science has already thoroughly debunked it. We know today that the Native Americans crossed over from Asia far earlier than 900 BC. They did not ride elephants or horses, use coins or swords, build towered cities or anything else Smith attributed to them.

Of course it's in your best interests to ignore the archaeology I've shown you. Solid archaeology is not your friend in this discussion. Now whether the excavator is LDS or Hindu, what should it matter? Findings are findings right?

No, findings need to be PEER REVIEWED. Mormons claim all sorts of stuff, and non-LDS scientists have debunked it.

Never does anything directly? Well they directly asked us to fight this evil homosexual propagandist agenda. That was rather direct and we're proud of our stance. Disagree where you may, but we're not going to be pushed around by pro-homosexual bullies. Thank God we won and will continue to win on this issue.

Prop 8 opened the door for a federal finding that gay marriage is a right, if the 9th Circuit and SCOTUS upholds that position. So it would be funny if the Zombies emptied their bank accounts and ended up making it the law of the whole country- even Utah.

But, Frankly, why is it any of your business what non-LDS gays do?

The last century we've spent a lot more time on a lot more important things than a phony salamander letter. Sometimes people try to fool our leaders and sometimes it works for a little while but it doesn't matter. The truth always comes out and the insignificance of such things always fades away.

Well, that's true. Hoffman got a pass on two murders because the Mormons didn't want the world known they got scammed.

If there was no life after this then I would be completely on your side on this one. However, there is a life after this, and it's a whole lot better than this one and that baby is going to live a full life in a much better environment than the poisonous one David created. So God, in his wisdom decided to guarantee eternal life to that baby. His ways are not our ways and it is tough for people to understand if they don't know the mind of God or even trust His decisions.

God didn't punish the baby by doing this... He punished David. The Baby has eternal life. Yes it is the God I worship. I can understand your position but you don't understand God's or the baby's position. David lost his exhaltation for his sins with the Uriah case.

Actually, that's pretty sick. David couldn't have been that bothered by losing that baby, since he had dozens of wives and concubines. Hell, they don't even tell us the baby's name, that's how unimportant it was. If David Sinned, God should punish David, not an innocent.

Ok so if by your concept, my intellect is greater than that of our leaders, then how could they possess the intellect to deceive me into believing their ideas for 30 years? Eventually the superior intellect would figure out that he's been duped and rebel against the religion. Well it hasn't happened to me yet.

Effective brainwashing.

Actions are not fake. talk is cheap and will eventually be found out as true or fake. But actions don't lie. Did you ever consider that we are actually just nice people? One could argue that I haven't been nice to you, but at least i've given you the respect to hear your questions and statements. I also haven't wished death on you or called you the names you've called me.

I met some of you Zombies in 1983. They were the most backstabbing, two-faced M-Fers I ever met in my life. That was before I realized all the batshit crazy stuff you believe. So today I take great pleasure in mocking you. I will take great pleasure when Mitt Romney goes down in flames.

Guy, I do have the time... But i'll never get to the point of justifying any murder. Some LDS members carried out a terrible crime for which they've already stood accountable before the law and the church. One day they will stand accountable before God.
They were frustrated and angry and sought to take revenge on the wrong people. That is not God's way. Brigham Young, who got word of the incident too late told them in a message, which arrived too late, by horse and buggy, to leave those people alone.
If you've ever studied any of the teachings of Brigham Young you would realize that it would be completely out of character for him to order such a thing. It defies all logic. Especially for someone who understands accountability in the next life. Brigham tried to save those people but was too late. Brigham was a great man and that bothers people like you.

Brigham was a murdering, tyrannical child molestor, and it would have been nice if President Buchanan took him out and hanged him and all the other Mormon leaders after the "Utah War". That would have sent a nice message to Davis and Lee.

YOu said you wouldn't try to justify murder, but then you try to excuse them by saying they were "frustrated and angry".

Which is of course, horseshit. The Mormons just saw these people as an easy source of stealable loot. Kill them, steal their stuff, and blame the Indians.