The Truth about Mormons

[Avatar4321]

Oh where to start..how about THERE IS NO GOD to sanctify any of your bullshit..and that is for you specifically and all christians morman or otherwise.

So the extent of your argument is your assertion that there is no God.

Needless to say, it's not very convincing. In fact, it begs the question. It's a circular argument.

The Book of Mormon provides a way to find out whether there is a God that every person can do. The Bible provides the same way to find out, but the Book of Mormon is a bit more direct in providing the formula.

 

[HUGGY]

Oh where to start..how about THERE IS NO GOD to sanctify any of your bullshit..and that is for you specifically and all christians morman or otherwise.

So the extent of your argument is your assertion that there is no God.

Needless to say, it's not very convincing. In fact, it begs the question. It's a circular argument.

The Book of Mormon provides a way to find out whether there is a God that every person can do. The Bible provides the same way to find out, but the Book of Mormon is a bit more direct in providing the formula.

It begs no question at all.

If no god then what?

Witch doctor mentality.

Grow up and put away your pretend friends.

 

[Eightball]

Oh where to start..how about THERE IS NO GOD to sanctify any of your bullshit..and that is for you specifically and all christians morman or otherwise.

So the extent of your argument is your assertion that there is no God.

Needless to say, it's not very convincing. In fact, it begs the question. It's a circular argument.

The Book of Mormon provides a way to find out whether there is a God that every person can do. The Bible provides the same way to find out, but the Book of Mormon is a bit more direct in providing the formula.

The bible and the book of Mormon are miles apart when it comes to what "true" faith in God entails.

1. Mormon theology basis faith on very subjective/experiential phenomena that the individual seeker will receive to "confirm/validate" Mormonism as the true Christian church or belief in God.
2. The bible stresses most succinctly in the N.T. that faith comes as a result of "objective" study of the scriptures, and the work of the Holy Spirit to the validation God's reality.
3. One of the mainstay teachings that door to door LDS/Mormon missionarys stress is for people to "pray" and ask God whether Mormonism is the truth or not. The Mormon seems to be unaware or in denial to the fact that Lucifer/Satan, and His myriads of principalites that dwell in the spiritual realm will entertain these broad based prayer requests with manifestations in the form of "burning bosom" experiences or dreams to the one that prays this request/inquirey.
4. God does not want us to check in our brains at the door and just throw out a prayer and expect the "truth", as He has provided mankind with all the proof he needs to make an objective decision, "yeah or nay" in regards to reality of God, and Jesus Christ.
5. Mormons consider the present day bible to be incorrect and or corrupted because from their human perspective, 2,000+ years of translating and re-translating from the original scripture must deem the present day bible very inaccurate from the original manuscripts written by prophets of the O.T. and disciples/apostles of the N.T..
The problem lies in the realm of human perspective, and totally negates or does not take into consideration that absolute power/omnipotence of God who made all of creation. The Mormon ignores or overlooks that this omnipotent God/Jehova, can and has the total ability to "protect" His communication via the written Word, throughout the ages using human being as the agents.

If God wants to stop the sun and He can, and did during one O.T. recording of a battle. God's mind and abilities are beyond our scope. Just one look into the cosmos, or the birth of a baby, or the vibrant life forms that abound on our planet that defy scientific analysis in so many ways, is just one little smidge of the evidencary information before mankind.

Even Paul in Romans Chapter 1 of the N.T., said that man is without excuse, as the evidence of intelligent creation is so obviously observable to man from both macro to micro life forms, atomic structure that follows organized, and predictable mathematical formulations, yet man stubbornly refuses to accept it.
6. There is no planet "Kolob" or whatever the Mormons call it in the bible, as it is of no value to man's quest of meaning, and relationship between him and his Creator.
7. The bible says that Jesus is the Alpha and Omega/First and last.. There is no others like Him. No human born of Adam's race can fill the position of Christ on earth nor on Kolob, or any other planet that might be hospitable to man, if indeed any exist.
8. Attonement: The Mormon church believes that there is an attonement for sin that man must do at extreme times, called, "Blood attonement". This again goes 180 degrees against the very teachings in the bible/N.T.. What did Jesus mean, when His last words on the cross were, "It is finished!"? What was finished was the work of "attonement" for all of mankinds sins. Now it was man's responsibility to appropriate that reality/fact, that was offered to him 2,000 years ago, by faith or belief in that act of God's Son.
9. No Mormon man living the most righteous or correct life, can fullfill or fill the sandals of Jesus Christ. It is blasphemous; the teaching that a Mormon man can ascertain Jesus' level or rank and someday be the Christ or New Adam of another earth/type planet.

Just consider the outlandish tales or stories of people inhabiting the moon and the bazaar tale of how Joseph Smith Jr. received God's revelation from an angel.
9. The Mormon church is established on the credentials that they've straightened-out the biblically based Christain faith through their founder's revelations from this angel Moroni.
10. Literally millions upon millions of earth's citizens have found solace, peace, and eternal reward in the King James, Revised Standard, American Standard, New American Standard, New International Version, bibles that have not changed one bit of the intent or direction of scripture but have made it more easily read in our more modern English vernacular through each later translation, as well as all the translations in many other world languages.
11. The Book of Mormon has gone through nearly 4,000 text changes, from major to minor since it's introduction.
12. The Dead Sea Scrolls found at Qumran many years back revealed a nearly complete scroll of the O.T. book of Isaiah. When it was compared to present day bible translations of Isaiah, it was found to be exactly the same, though obviously not written in present day English, but in the language of the day used by those Jewish writers nearly 2,000 years ago.

How?: How could the Dead Sea Isaiah scroll written thousands of years ago, not deviate or show any difference from nowaday, scholarly recognized, bible translations? Omnipotence of God, as plain as the nose on your face! If God wants to communicate to mankind, He doesn't allow anything to hinder it, as He is the Potter, and we are the clay. He is the Master, we are the created, of His creation. Just as God "spoke" all things into existence, the scriptures have been true to His intent, and communication to His beloved creation/humanity.
13. So we see here with very obvious, and vivid explanation that the LDS/Mormon premise that God, "Oops'd" and allowed man to corrupt His communication to humanity over the thousands of years is a very "weak" premise to base their system of belief on.
14. Joseph Smith Jr.: Did this man fullfill the criteria of a prophet, as observe and read of the lives of prophets in the O.T.? Hardly, but the LDS/Mormon church refuses to accept secular accounts of J.S. Jr's life that detract or indicate that he was indeed a less than Godly man in the entirety of his life. The bible says that a true prophet of God will never prophesy incorrectly, or in anyway against God's set-stone principles. The prophet Balaam, learned the hard way when refused to listen to God, and was more interested in material gain, and occult, and socery, that were no-no's with God. Balaam, played the "harlot" and prostituted himself to other gods. Is end was death by the swords of the Israelites.
15. God's Word is intact, and will stay intact, as man is not more powerful that God, and God will not allow, and has not allowed His communication via the scriptures to be changed in intent, or message to humanity.
16. Now the question comes: Do you want to embrace the all knowing, all powerful, all present God of the bible, or the "anemic" ever changing, every correcting, continually evolving god of the LDS/Mormon church, whose whole credentials must be substantiated via subjective, personal experiential phenoma that can easily be misinterpretted, and easily be from a source other than God?
17. Romans says: "Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word(scripture) of God.". The bible does not substantiate nor endorce, "Faith comes by feelings, experiencing miracles, dreams, tongues, that say that Mormonism is the truth,".
18. One should not believe, because they want something to be the truth, but should allow themselves to be convinced, based on evidences, and not phenomena.

 

[Maple]

I had heard that about mormon men inheriting their own planet and bringing up their wives, but just didn't beleive that was their teachings. So thank you for the information, I don't believe that it would be heaven for any woman to be eternally pregnant. It has been my experience as my earlier post indicated that the mormon men I have dealt with are very nice, but they seem to discount women to the point of not heeding any advise they get from them.

The boss I worked with had no experience in the industry, he had 3 women including his consultant who with the other two had a combined 60+ years of experience yet he paid no attention to their recommendations. He is paying dearly for that now.

I don't bash other religions, I am very happy to see that people realize that there is a higher power than themselves, but I am very glad that I am a Christian who belongs to a bible based church and I will remain so.

 

[Maple]

12. The Dead Sea Scrolls found at Qumran many years back revealed a nearly complete scroll of the O.T. book of Isaiah. When it was compared to present day bible translations of Isaiah, it was found to be exactly the same, though obviously not written in present day English, but in the language of the day used by those Jewish writers nearly 2,000 years ago.

How true!!!! Great post.

 

[Avatar4321]

How can you be "Bible based" if you deny revelation? How can you be Bible based if you deny the need for Apostles and Prophets?

 

[TofuDog]

Mormons are just another bunch of god fearing pedophiles. Geez, is there even 1 religion that isn't all whacked out?

 

[DavidS]

Mormons are just another bunch of god fearing pedophiles. Geez, is there even 1 religion that isn't all whacked out?

Yes.

Judaism.

It's a "super" religion.

 

[TofuDog]

sorry, but jews are a bunch of inbred racists.

 

[Eightball]

How can you be "Bible based" if you deny revelation? How can you be Bible based if you deny the need for Apostles and Prophets?

There's revelation, and there's revelation, Avatar. You should know that if you are fairly familiar with the bible.

There is false revelation, and there's revelation that is not false.

One important way to test revelation and the Apostle Paul emphasized this above all else, was, "Go to the scriptures and test the revelation against God''s Word.". If it contradicts God's word or just goes against God's already set and clear principles, then you have a false revelation. False revelations come from false prophets.

Now the LDS/Mormon church bases their whole foundation on "extra or additional revelation" over and above the bible.

Now we already have shown via the Qumran scrolls that God has protected His scripture even with fallible man being the "agent" used to pass it on via oral, and then written means. God is not some anemic, namby-pamby god who can't keep things in order or according to His will. When His will is to be extended, there is nothing that can stop it.

The LDS/Mormon foundation of belief is built upon the principle that God, "oops'd" and let His original and accurate communication to mankind become corrupted by fallible man. Then God picks this "upstanding" individual, ex-treasure hunter, current con-artist, named Joseph Smith Jr. to be the human vessel to receive God's "corrected" or "straightened-out" will for mankind.

Even Paul the Apostle to the gentiles, who was formerly a Pharisee who attacked the early Christian church with wild abandon and what he thought was God's will, was finally haulted in the dessert between Jerusalem and Damascus. Jesus actually spoke thunderously to Paul, and Paul fell off his horse while in pursuit of Christians to arrest and take back to Jerusalem for trial before the Jewish Sanhedrin.

On that day, Paul became a believer, whose zealous spirit was redirected to do God's will not his/Paul's. God will not allow His Word to be twisted, changed, nor thwarted in anyway.

Underground Christian churches are growing in the Republic of China, and in the Middle East. Those Christian believers face so much potential threat of life and limb, and ostracizing from their families and relatives.
********
Just look at the lives of true bible prophets, and look at lives/backgrounds of LDS/Mormon early prophets. There's no comparison.

Also the revelations of both groups are like oil and water. There is no parallel.
*******

 

[Maple]

The one message that really hit home with me, was the fact that after Jesus's crucifiction and he was placed in his tomb, his 11 deciples hid out afraid that since they had been followers of Jesus they would be next in line to be crucified. They were afraid to be recognized as friends of Jesus.

Jesus appeared to the women first, then to the deciples. My pastor made a point that had the resurrection of Jesus not occured and his deciples had not seen him rise again, then why on earth would they go out and preach his message, knowing full well the terrible deaths that they would incur. They all died terrible deaths, but they no longer feared physical death. Should Jesus not have risen from the grave there would be no Christian religion, there would be no point in the teaching of his words. Think about this, it's profound.

Hopefully, this will open some minds and hearts to God, I can tell by some of the messages that there are alot of non-believers on this board. To me- that is a sad thing, God loves you and is always searching for you, trying to open your hearts and minds to him.

 

[Maple]

For all of you people that need scientific evidence, researching the Shroud of Turin may help you. As of this day there is no explanation of how that image got on that cloth. Scientists who were atheists have come out and stated that the shroud is the image of Christ and is Christ's burial cloth. There have been carbon dating tests on the fringe of the cloth and it was not dated to Christ's time, however, many believe that the portion of the cloth that was taken for carbon dating had been repaired by French Monks and that this produced an erroneous dating. The Catholic church has not released it for further testing, and scientists are still running tests on what little remains of the small peice of material. It is absolutely fascinating to me as well as others who continue to research it.

One fact remains, no scientist has been able to explain or replicate that image in today's scientific, know everything world.

 

[HUGGY]

For all of you people that need scientific evidence, researching the Shroud of Turin may help you. As of this day there is no explanation of how that image got on that cloth. Scientists who were atheists have come out and stated that the shroud is the image of Christ and is Christ's burial cloth. There have been carbon dating tests on the fringe of the cloth and it was not dated to Christ's time, however, many believe that the portion of the cloth that was taken for carbon dating had been repaired by French Monks and that this produced an erroneous dating. The Catholic church has not released it for further testing, and scientists are still running tests on what little remains of the small peice of material. It is absolutely fascinating to me as well as others who continue to research it.

One fact remains, no scientist has been able to explain or replicate that image in today's scientific, know everything world.

Desperation. If you want to believe something bad enough you might see jesus when you wipe your butt.

 

[TofuDog]

"Hopefully, this will open some minds and hearts to God, I can tell by some of the messages that there are alot of non-believers on this board. To me- that is a sad thing, God loves you and is always searching for you, trying to open your hearts and minds to him."

God should know where I am, and he's welcome anytime for beers and doobies. better yet for all us doubters, why doesn't he hold a press conference? Clear up all the doubt? Or does that make too much sense? I have to convince myself that it/god exists?

 

[Avatar4321]

The one message that really hit home with me, was the fact that after Jesus's crucifiction and he was placed in his tomb, his 11 deciples hid out afraid that since they had been followers of Jesus they would be next in line to be crucified. They were afraid to be recognized as friends of Jesus.

Jesus appeared to the women first, then to the deciples. My pastor made a point that had the resurrection of Jesus not occured and his deciples had not seen him rise again, then why on earth would they go out and preach his message, knowing full well the terrible deaths that they would incur. They all died terrible deaths, but they no longer feared physical death. Should Jesus not have risen from the grave there would be no Christian religion, there would be no point in the teaching of his words. Think about this, it's profound.

Hopefully, this will open some minds and hearts to God, I can tell by some of the messages that there are alot of non-believers on this board. To me- that is a sad thing, God loves you and is always searching for you, trying to open your hearts and minds to him.

What on earth does this have to do with your argument against Mormonism? Have you read the Book of Mormon. Its the biggest proponent of the Resurrection of Christ. No one is arguing that Christ didnt rise from the dead. Quite the opposite.

 

[Avatar4321]

There's revelation, and there's revelation, Avatar. You should know that if you are fairly familiar with the bible.

There is false revelation, and there's revelation that is not false.

One important way to test revelation and the Apostle Paul emphasized this above all else, was, "Go to the scriptures and test the revelation against God''s Word.". If it contradicts God's word or just goes against God's already set and clear principles, then you have a false revelation. False revelations come from false prophets.

Now the LDS/Mormon church bases their whole foundation on "extra or additional revelation" over and above the bible.

Now we already have shown via the Qumran scrolls that God has protected His scripture even with fallible man being the "agent" used to pass it on via oral, and then written means. God is not some anemic, namby-pamby god who can't keep things in order or according to His will. When His will is to be extended, there is nothing that can stop it.

The LDS/Mormon foundation of belief is built upon the principle that God, "oops'd" and let His original and accurate communication to mankind become corrupted by fallible man. Then God picks this "upstanding" individual, ex-treasure hunter, current con-artist, named Joseph Smith Jr. to be the human vessel to receive God's "corrected" or "straightened-out" will for mankind.

Even Paul the Apostle to the gentiles, who was formerly a Pharisee who attacked the early Christian church with wild abandon and what he thought was God's will, was finally haulted in the dessert between Jerusalem and Damascus. Jesus actually spoke thunderously to Paul, and Paul fell off his horse while in pursuit of Christians to arrest and take back to Jerusalem for trial before the Jewish Sanhedrin.

On that day, Paul became a believer, whose zealous spirit was redirected to do God's will not his/Paul's. God will not allow His Word to be twisted, changed, nor thwarted in anyway.

Underground Christian churches are growing in the Republic of China, and in the Middle East. Those Christian believers face so much potential threat of life and limb, and ostracizing from their families and relatives.
********
Just look at the lives of true bible prophets, and look at lives/backgrounds of LDS/Mormon early prophets. There's no comparison.

Also the revelations of both groups are like oil and water. There is no parallel.
*******

So where are your new scriptures? Where are your new revelations? Why have you sealed the heavens contrary to what the Bible says?

 

[TofuDog]

"Its the biggest proponent of the Resurrection of Christ. No one is arguing that Christ didnt rise from the dead."

sorry, no proof.

 

[Avatar4321]

For all of you people that need scientific evidence, researching the Shroud of Turin may help you. As of this day there is no explanation of how that image got on that cloth. Scientists who were atheists have come out and stated that the shroud is the image of Christ and is Christ's burial cloth. There have been carbon dating tests on the fringe of the cloth and it was not dated to Christ's time, however, many believe that the portion of the cloth that was taken for carbon dating had been repaired by French Monks and that this produced an erroneous dating. The Catholic church has not released it for further testing, and scientists are still running tests on what little remains of the small peice of material. It is absolutely fascinating to me as well as others who continue to research it.

One fact remains, no scientist has been able to explain or replicate that image in today's scientific, know everything world.

The shroud of turin is a hoax. its quite a well known hoax. It doesnt date anywhere near the time of Christ.

 

[Avatar4321]

"Hopefully, this will open some minds and hearts to God, I can tell by some of the messages that there are alot of non-believers on this board. To me- that is a sad thing, God loves you and is always searching for you, trying to open your hearts and minds to him."

God should know where I am, and he's welcome anytime for beers and doobies. better yet for all us doubters, why doesn't he hold a press conference? Clear up all the doubt? Or does that make too much sense? I have to convince myself that it/god exists?

You dont have to convince yourself of anything. You simply have to be open enough to investigate.

Why the heck would God reveal Himself to you and make you more accountable for what you do if you dont want to do it? God isnt going to give you more light and knowledge to have you ignore it to your own condemnation. Its better you remain in ignorance until you desire to learn the truth

 

[Eightball]

For all of you people that need scientific evidence, researching the Shroud of Turin may help you. As of this day there is no explanation of how that image got on that cloth. Scientists who were atheists have come out and stated that the shroud is the image of Christ and is Christ's burial cloth. There have been carbon dating tests on the fringe of the cloth and it was not dated to Christ's time, however, many believe that the portion of the cloth that was taken for carbon dating had been repaired by French Monks and that this produced an erroneous dating. The Catholic church has not released it for further testing, and scientists are still running tests on what little remains of the small peice of material. It is absolutely fascinating to me as well as others who continue to research it.

One fact remains, no scientist has been able to explain or replicate that image in today's scientific, know everything world.

The shroud of turin is a hoax. its quite a well known hoax. It doesnt date anywhere near the time of Christ.

I thought they did a study of the type of weave of the cloth, and it isn't a type of weave used back in Jesus' time.

Also Carbon 14 testing of cloth fragments have come up much newer than Jesus' time too.