The Truth about Mormons

[Truthspeaker]

I do not know if this question was asked, but I have to ask it

Are Mormons Christians, or are Mormons a new off-shoot religion like Islam is. You know, some beliefs are similiar, others not so. Differing practices, rituals, organizations.

The thing I noticed about most Christian Denominations is that that they derive mainly from the three main chuches--Eastern Orthodox, Catholicism, Cypnotics--where Catholicism is the more fractured branch composed of Catholic and Protestants.

I keep trying to find exactly how Mormonism fit into Protestants movement--does it?

As some critics love to try and accuse us of being non-Christian there really is not a shred of substance to prove it. Our first article of faith states, We believe in God the eternal Father and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in The Holy Ghost. Jesus is the Saviour and redeemer of mankind. Yes we are Christian.

However we are different in our claim from all other Christians because we are not Catholic, but we are also not Protestant, because we don't protest any other church, and we are not Reformers, since we are not seeking to reform the Catholic church.
We call ourselves Restorationists because we believe Jesus restored that which was lost in the modern day church.

that is a very good question by the way. I really appreciate decent dialogue for a change.

 

[Eightball]

What makes a church or group non-Christian?

There are many non-Christian religions and cults in America: Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Science, Unity, The Way International, Unitarianism, Islam, Hinduism, etc. They all claim special revelation and privilege and those that use the Bible invariably interpret it in disharmony with standard biblical understanding. And groups like the Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses object to being labeled a "cult" because it often gets an emotional reaction as well as is a label they want to avoid.

The dictionary defines cult as "a system of religious worship or ritual"; "devoted attachment to, or extravagant admiration for, a person, principle, etc.", "a group of followers."

This is a typical secular definition and, by it, any believer in any god is a cultist, even atheists since they have an admiration for a principle and are a group of followers of the philosophy of atheism. Therefore, this is too broad a definition since it doesn't sufficiently address the issue of true and false religious systems.

The definition I use (and other Christian ministries and theologians use as well) for "non-Christian cult" or "non-Christian religion" is a group that may or may not include the Bible in its set of authoritative scriptures. If it does include the Bible, it distorts the true biblical doctrines that effect salvation sufficiently so as to void salvation.1 If it doesn't use the Bible, it is a non-Christian religion and does not participate in the benefit of divine revelation.

In Christian bookstores, there are almost always 'cult' sections which include the Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc. So, I am not alone in describing what a non-Christian, bible based cult is. Nevertheless, what makes something non-Christian is when it denies the essential doctrines of the Bible.

*The Deity of Christ, which involves The Trinity
*the Resurrection, and
*Salvation by Grace

All of them add to the finished work of Jesus on the cross. Some cult groups even add to the Bible, i.e., Mormonism which has the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and The Pearl of Great Price. Also Christian Science has added Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures. The Jehovah's Witnesses, however, have actually changed the text of the Bible to make it fit what they want it to. For information on this see 'Jehovah's Witnesses and how they have changed the Bible.'

Cults add their own efforts, their own works of righteousness to the finished work of salvation accomplished by Jesus on the cross. All Cults say that Jesus' sacrifice is sufficient, but that our works must be 'mixed with' or 'added to' His in order to prove that we are saved and worthy of salvation. They say one thing but believe another. They maintain that they must prove themselves worthy and that they must try their best to please God and prove to Him that they are sincere, have worked hard, and are then worthy to be with Him. In other words, they do their best and God takes care of the rest.

This is absolutely wrong. The Bible says that we are saved by grace, not by works: "For by grace you have been saved through faith...not as a result of works, that no one should boast," (Eph. 2:8-9, NASB); not by anything we do: "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law," (Rom. 3:28, NASB). Because if there was anything that we could do to merit the forgiveness of our sins, then Jesus died needlessly: "nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified...I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly," (Gal. 2:16, 21, NASB).

People in cults will often cite James 2:26 where it says that faith without works is dead in an attempt to demonstrate that works are part of becoming saved. While it is true that faith without works is dead, it isn't the works that save us. James is saying that if you have real and true faith, it will result in real and true works of Christianity. In other words, you do good works because you are saved, not to get saved. He isn't saying that our works are what saves us, or that they, in combination with the finished work of Christ, save us. James is simply telling us that if we say we have faith (James 2:14) but we have no works in correspondence to that faith, then that faith won't save us because it is a dead faith. This agrees with Paul who tells us that faith is what saves us, "Therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ," (Rom. 5:1). This faith is real faith, or true saving faith, not just an empty mental acknowledgement of God's existence -which is what those who say they have faith but show no corresponding godliness are guilty of. Incidentally, you should realize that faith is only as good as who you put it in. Just having faith in something doesn't mean you're saved. That is why it is important to have the True Jesus, because if you have great faith but it is in the wrong Jesus -the Jesus of a cult- then your faith is useless.

In Mormonism, Jesus is the brother of the devil begotten through sexual intercourse from a God who came from another planet. In Jehovah's Witnesses he is Michael the Archangel who became a man. In the New Age Movement he is a man in tune with the divine consciousness. Which is true? The only true Jesus is the one of the Bible, the one who is prayed to (1 Cor. 1:1-2 with Psalm 116:1; Acts 7:55-60); worshipped (Matt. 2:2, 11, 14:33, John 9:35-38, Heb. 1:8), and called God (John 20:28; Col. 2:9). The Jesus of the Cults is not prayed to, worshipped, or called God. And since the Jesus of the Bible is the only one who reveals the Father (Luke 10:22) so that you may have eternal life (John 17:3), you must have the true Jesus who alone is the way, the truth, and the life (John 14:6).

Another common denominator among the Cults is their methods for twisting scripture. Some of the errors they commit in interpreting Scripture are:

1) taking Scripture out of context; 2) reading into the Scriptures information that is not there; 3) picking and choosing only the Scriptures that suit their needs; 4) ignoring other explanations; 5) combining scriptures that don't have anything to do with each other; 5) quoting a verse without giving its location; 6) incorrect definitions of key words; and 7) mistranslations. These are only a few of the many ways Cults misuse Scripture.

If you want to be able to witness well to a person in a cult, you need to understand their doctrines as well as your own. It would be a good idea to study Christian Doctrine: the Bible, God, Creation, Man; and Christian Doctrine: Jesus, the Holy Spirit, Salvation... as well as the The Essential Doctrines of Christianity to become better equipped. Through study you will be able to answer questions that often come up in witnessing encounters. A Christian should know his doctrine well enough to be able to recognize not only what is true, but also what is false in a religious system (1 Pet. 3:15; 2 Tim. 2:15).

Jesus warned us that in the last days false Christs and false prophets would arise and deceive many (Matt. 24:24). The Lord knew that there would be a rise of the spirit of Antichrist (1 John 4:1-3) in the last days. Its manifestation is here in the forms of Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, and the New Age Movement, among others.

 

[Avatar4321]

Another common denominator among the Cults is their methods for twisting scripture. Some of the errors they commit in interpreting Scripture are:

1) taking Scripture out of context; 2) reading into the Scriptures information that is not there; 3) picking and choosing only the Scriptures that suit their needs; 4) ignoring other explanations; 5) combining scriptures that don't have anything to do with each other; 5) quoting a verse without giving its location; 6) incorrect definitions of key words; and 7) mistranslations. These are only a few of the many ways Cults misuse Scripture.

So what your saying is that your particularly brand of Protestant/Evangelical Christianity is a cult.

If you want to be able to witness well to a person in a cult, you need to understand their doctrines as well as your own. It would be a good idea to study Christian Doctrine: the Bible, God, Creation, Man; and Christian Doctrine: Jesus, the Holy Spirit, Salvation... as well as the The Essential Doctrines of Christianity to become better equipped. Through study you will be able to answer questions that often come up in witnessing encounters. A Christian should know his doctrine well enough to be able to recognize not only what is true, but also what is false in a religious system (1 Pet. 3:15; 2 Tim. 2:15).

It be nice if you did worry about your own doctrine more. Maybe if you preached your doctrine instead of attacking others, people would convert.

Because the key to conversion is the Holy Spirit. And you can only teach with the Holy Spirit when you are testifying of truth. Not when you are fighting others.

I think the world would be a better place if people did more to live their religion.

Jesus warned us that in the last days false Christs and false prophets would arise and deceive many (Matt. 24:24). The Lord knew that there would be a rise of the spirit of Antichrist (1 John 4:1-3) in the last days. Its manifestation is here in the forms of Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, and the New Age Movement, among others.

Did you ever stop to consider that maybe you were the one being decieved?

 

[eots]

the truth about mormons...some of them are mindless assholes..this one is anyway



[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hf33g9ep4YU&feature=related[/ame]

 

[Truthspeaker]

Wouldn't that be the same about every religious or non- religious group?

 

[eots]

Wouldn't that be the same about every religious or non- religious group?

__________________


prettty much..

 

[Truthspeaker]

Aha, it seems the thread has finally come to an end. Unless there are any further unanswered questions I would like to thank you all for a spirited participation few threads receive.

 

[Skeptik]

Just one more:

Do Mormons really wear underwear made of seagull feathers?

Just kidding. I actually have heard that one, believe it or not.

You have done a very good job of explaining your religion. Kudos.

 

[Truthspeaker]

I do hear that seagull feathers make for great pillows!

 

[TofuDog]

I have a question for truthspeaker:

Are Mormons right and every other religion is wrong? Is the book of mormons the only true revelation from god?

 

[Avatar4321]

I have a question for truthspeaker:

Are Mormons right and every other religion is wrong?

If Mormons are right than all religions have some truth.

Is the book of mormons the only true revelation from god?

Mormons dont claim this so no. Quite the opposite, there are many revelations from God that we dont yet have. And Revelations that have not been revealed.

 

[Maple]

I am a Christian woman- non-denominational. I worked for a Mormon boss, very nice person and a very devoted Mormon. One thing I did notice is that he had a tendency to blow off any suggestions or recommendations that were made by a woman employee or even his own business consultant, who happened to be a woman. He did not take many actions that were suggested to him by a woman and therefore lost me and other women employees that were top notch.

I was watching Glen Beck the other day on television and he was talking about the Tea Parties, he was going on about how women have really become involved in this and implied that it was because they had more time to do this than the men did, being that they were house wives and mothers. One women interrupted him and reminded him that many of the women attending the parties were small business owners. He kind of blew that off.

Mitt Romney- another Mormon insulted Sarah Palin when it was brought to his attention that she was on the cover of Time Magazine being depicted as the conservative voice of America. I don't know his exact words but it was something about being a beauty queen and in a way denegrating her contribution to the conservative movement.

I would like to think that Mormon men have not been brought up to believe that somehow women are not their equals, but it has been my experience especially with my old boss, that this may very well have been ingrained in him since he was a child.

What say you????

 

[Eightball]

Maple:

I'll most likely get bashed by the Mormon members here, but in respect to husband/wife relationships as designated in the LDS/Mormon religion I have this quote.

STRANGE TEACHING OF JOSPEH SMITH AND LDS LEADERS

The following are strange teachings and public statements of the LDS church founders:

1. No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith. (Journal of Discourses, p289)


Another Mormon belief is that the men resurrect their wives. The Mormon man if he is worthy will become a god on some uninhabited planet out in the Universe. He then as the god of his own world will at his own discretion resurrect those wives who were faithful and obedient to him. They then become the goddesses of his planet and rule with their husbands. A joke among the Mormon's which reflects this teaching goes like this:

It is resurrection day and the Mormon man begins to call his wives from the grave. He first called Mary, and says to her you were a wonderful wife and such a comfort to me, "Come on up!" Then to Sarah and several other wives he makes complimentary statements and calls them to be resurrected too. Then he comes to Ethel....."Ethel," he says, "You made my life a living H... and never obeyed. You just stay where you are."

Heaven for Mormon women is eternal pregnancy. They have to produce the spirit babies who will populate the world when human babies are born. Also those LDS women who are not sealed to their husbands for all time and eternity in the temple marriage or were never married will be the servants of those goddess wives who were blessed by their husbands and were resurrected.

2. The earth, "conceives" and produces other earths, the same as a mulberry tree produces mulberry trees. The earth is alive or it could not reproduce itself. (Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses,1857, p 36)

3. Brigham Young taught that the sun and moon were inhabited! In fact he said there was no doubt about it, either! ( Journal of Discourses, 1880, p 271) Not much different from scientologist founder Hubbard's teachings.

4. Joseph Smith preached that the moon was inhabited by men and women who were about six feet tall, dressed like Quakers, and lived about a 1000 years. He promised Oliver B Huntington, that he would preach the gospel before he was 21 years of age and that he would preach to the inhabitants of the moon! (TheYoung Woman's Journal, 1892, vol 3, page 264)

5. Brigham Young said that gold and silver grow the same way the hair grew on his head grows. (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourse, 1852, p 219)

6. The planet "Kolob" is the "nearest unto the throne of God." (Doc. & Cov. Sec.130:7-8) Kolob is the planet where the great council of gods met and Jesus's plan for redemption was accepted and Satan's rejected. The gods who meet on Kolob assign the newly exalted gods (Mormons who were faithful) to the planets where they will rule with their wives, such as the god of earth.

*******
No doubt I'll be called a "Mormon hater" as I've been called in earlier post in this thread.
*******

 

[HUGGY]

Tell me about magic underwear please?

My favorite is the magic plates.

I have read the book of mormon and find it even crazier than the bible.

You can believe what you want but trying to get others to buy into your fantasy is fraud.

 

[Avatar4321]

Maple:

I'll most likely get bashed by the Mormon members here, but in respect to husband/wife relationships as designated in the LDS/Mormon religion I have this quote.
*******
No doubt I'll be called a "Mormon hater" as I've been called in earlier post in this thread.
*******

Maybe if you actually stopped pretending you havent been answered on these same exact issues hundreds of times in this very thread, people might consider you more sincere in your concerns.

However, if you continue to use unofficial sources, unreliable sources, out of context sources, and ignore what your very Bible says on the matter, no one who knows better will take you seriously. Unfortunately, those who may not be so knowledgible about mormonism may be misinformed.

 

[Avatar4321]

My favorite is the magic plates.

I have read the book of mormon and find it even crazier than the bible.

You can believe what you want but trying to get others to buy into your fantasy is fraud.

Magic plates? Who has ever said anything about magic plates. Certainly there are gold plates involved which contained the original text to the Book of Mormon, but there is nothing magical about them. They are indeed Holy, but so is anything sanctified of God.

Out of curiosity, which parts of the Book of Mormon did you find crazier than the Bible? Id seriously love to here what you have to say. And I am talking about you personally, not talking about what some other website says or what.

Thankfully, the Lord has established this land as a land of liberty where man can worship Him according to the dictates of our hearts and conscience. You may disbelieve it, but the Book of Mormon can stand of its own accord. The Lord can and does show people with His power that it's true.

 

[Skeptik]

Maple:

I'll most likely get bashed by the Mormon members here, but in respect to husband/wife relationships as designated in the LDS/Mormon religion I have this quote.

STRANGE TEACHING OF JOSPEH SMITH AND LDS LEADERS

The following are strange teachings and public statements of the LDS church founders:

1. No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith. (Journal of Discourses, p289)


Another Mormon belief is that the men resurrect their wives. The Mormon man if he is worthy will become a god on some uninhabited planet out in the Universe. He then as the god of his own world will at his own discretion resurrect those wives who were faithful and obedient to him. They then become the goddesses of his planet and rule with their husbands. A joke among the Mormon's which reflects this teaching goes like this:

It is resurrection day and the Mormon man begins to call his wives from the grave. He first called Mary, and says to her you were a wonderful wife and such a comfort to me, "Come on up!" Then to Sarah and several other wives he makes complimentary statements and calls them to be resurrected too. Then he comes to Ethel....."Ethel," he says, "You made my life a living H... and never obeyed. You just stay where you are."

Heaven for Mormon women is eternal pregnancy. They have to produce the spirit babies who will populate the world when human babies are born. Also those LDS women who are not sealed to their husbands for all time and eternity in the temple marriage or were never married will be the servants of those goddess wives who were blessed by their husbands and were resurrected.

2. The earth, "conceives" and produces other earths, the same as a mulberry tree produces mulberry trees. The earth is alive or it could not reproduce itself. (Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses,1857, p 36)

3. Brigham Young taught that the sun and moon were inhabited! In fact he said there was no doubt about it, either! ( Journal of Discourses, 1880, p 271) Not much different from scientologist founder Hubbard's teachings.

4. Joseph Smith preached that the moon was inhabited by men and women who were about six feet tall, dressed like Quakers, and lived about a 1000 years. He promised Oliver B Huntington, that he would preach the gospel before he was 21 years of age and that he would preach to the inhabitants of the moon! (TheYoung Woman's Journal, 1892, vol 3, page 264)

5. Brigham Young said that gold and silver grow the same way the hair grew on his head grows. (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourse, 1852, p 219)

6. The planet "Kolob" is the "nearest unto the throne of God." (Doc. & Cov. Sec.130:7-8) Kolob is the planet where the great council of gods met and Jesus's plan for redemption was accepted and Satan's rejected. The gods who meet on Kolob assign the newly exalted gods (Mormons who were faithful) to the planets where they will rule with their wives, such as the god of earth.

*******
No doubt I'll be called a "Mormon hater" as I've been called in earlier post in this thread.
*******

No doubt you'll be called someone who will swallow anything if you believe the above quote.

 

[TofuDog]

"Thankfully, the Lord has established this land as a land of liberty where man can worship Him according to the dictates of our hearts and conscience. You may disbelieve it, but the Book of Mormon can stand of its own accord. The Lord can and does show people with His power that it's true."

Dude, you're seriously trippin', the Lord told you to steal the land from the indians?
Do you homeys still outlaw alcohol in your state?

 

[TofuDog]

"Thankfully, the Lord has established this land as a land of liberty where man can worship Him according to the dictates of our hearts and conscience. You may disbelieve it, but the Book of Mormon can stand of its own accord. The Lord can and does show people with His power that it's true."

Dude, you're seriously trippin', the Lord told you to steal the land from the indians?
Do you homeys still outlaw alcohol in your state?

 

[HUGGY]

My favorite is the magic plates.

I have read the book of mormon and find it even crazier than the bible.

You can believe what you want but trying to get others to buy into your fantasy is fraud.

Magic plates? Who has ever said anything about magic plates. Certainly there are gold plates involved which contained the original text to the Book of Mormon, but there is nothing magical about them. They are indeed Holy, but so is anything sanctified of God.

Out of curiosity, which parts of the Book of Mormon did you find crazier than the Bible? Id seriously love to here what you have to say. And I am talking about you personally, not talking about what some other website says or what.

Thankfully, the Lord has established this land as a land of liberty where man can worship Him according to the dictates of our hearts and conscience. You may disbelieve it, but the Book of Mormon can stand of its own accord. The Lord can and does show people with His power that it's true.

Oh where to start..how about THERE IS NO GOD to sanctify any of your bullshit..and that is for you specifically and all christians morman or otherwise.