The truth about taxes

[JoeNormal]

Does Walmart pay its check out clerks more or less than your local grocery store? Careful, you will probably be wrong.

It's probably minimum wage in either case but where you have 1 manager for every 10 cashiers in a local grocery store, there might be a greater than remote chance of moving up. That's not the way Walmarts are structured.

Walmart promotes from within, they have excellent management training programs.

so I guess you are saying that your local store employs your neighbors as wage slaves too since you admit that they are paying minimum wage. I think you need to check what your local walmart is paying-------I bet you $50 its not minimum wage.

I wouldn't know in either case. It seems like a job I might have had before I graduated from college and most of those were near minimum wage. What I do know is that if they're training their employees to take advantage of government supported poverty programs, they're treating them like shit. I haven't heard anyone making those claims against my local grocery store.

 

[Foxfyre]

No, it's because we were sold out by trade agreements that don't place any sort of penalty on cheap goods entering the country.

thats part of it, but not the major part. we have dealt with China like they are kings and queens---probably since they hold so much of our debt.

It's because it's hugely profitable for major corporations to reduce their manufacturing labor to near zero. Accusing them of selling out the American people seems to have lost its sting and a lot of right wingers support this attitude by claiming that their ONLY responsibility is to create profit. It's sickening.

That is what commerce and industry is. It is business owners looking to make a profit and for 99% of them, that is their only reason for taking the very real risk to open and operate a business. But in the process of making that profit, they become customers for other businesses, provide products and services that their own customers want and need, and, they provide opportunity for others to profit themselves and all that self-serving activity drives a robust economy and gives everybody more opportunity to prosper. Almost all of the people who work for somebody instead of running their own businesses work purely based on a profit motive too.

Businesses with a happy work force will almost always prosper more than those with a disgruntled work force, therefore there is a profit motive to treat the people who work for you well. The bad employer will not prosper as much because he won't keep good people.

 

[JoeNormal]

Can you name one government program that is well managed? Just one.

I'll name two - Medicare and the VA Hospital.

Medicare is going broke, it is full of massive waste, fraud, and abuse. Now, if you want an example of a well run medicare program--------look at medicare advantage, run by insurance companies using medicare funds, provides excellent low cost coverage for millions of seniors---------oh, and obama took 700 billion from it to fund obamacare.

Some VA hospitals are OK, but many are the last place you want to go if you are sick.

I don't have time to look into medicare advantage right now but I suspect that if insurance companies are running it, they aren't dealing with the terminally ill or severely handicapped who should have the common decency to just shuffle off and die as quickly as possible.

 

[JoeNormal]

thats part of it, but not the major part. we have dealt with China like they are kings and queens---probably since they hold so much of our debt.

It's because it's hugely profitable for major corporations to reduce their manufacturing labor to near zero. Accusing them of selling out the American people seems to have lost its sting and a lot of right wingers support this attitude by claiming that their ONLY responsibility is to create profit. It's sickening.

That is what commerce and industry is. It is business owners looking to make a profit and for 99% of them, that is their only reason for taking the very real risk to open and operate a business. But in the process of making that profit, they become customers for other businesses, provide products and services that their own customers want and need, and, they provide opportunity for others to profit themselves and all that self-serving activity drives a robust economy and gives everybody more opportunity to prosper. Almost all of the people who work for somebody instead of running their own businesses work purely based on a profit motive too.

Businesses with a happy work force will almost always prosper more than those with a disgruntled work force, therefore there is a profit motive to treat the people who work for you well. The bad employer will not prosper as much because he won't keep good people.

Massive outsourcing and ultra-cheap foreign labor/products effectively short circuits this example of a well functioning economy.

 

[Foxfyre]

It's because it's hugely profitable for major corporations to reduce their manufacturing labor to near zero. Accusing them of selling out the American people seems to have lost its sting and a lot of right wingers support this attitude by claiming that their ONLY responsibility is to create profit. It's sickening.

That is what commerce and industry is. It is business owners looking to make a profit and for 99% of them, that is their only reason for taking the very real risk to open and operate a business. But in the process of making that profit, they become customers for other businesses, provide products and services that their own customers want and need, and, they provide opportunity for others to profit themselves and all that self-serving activity drives a robust economy and gives everybody more opportunity to prosper. Almost all of the people who work for somebody instead of running their own businesses work purely based on a profit motive too.

Businesses with a happy work force will almost always prosper more than those with a disgruntled work force, therefore there is a profit motive to treat the people who work for you well. The bad employer will not prosper as much because he won't keep good people.

Massive outsourcing and ultra-cheap foreign labor/products effectively short circuits this example of a well functioning economy.

Massive outsourcing and ultra-cheap foreign labor/products is a symptom of an economy that isn't functioning well almost always due to excessive government meddling, interference, and incompetence. But even those negatives do not change the benefits of the private sector commerce and industry that is happening here in the USA. If the government put just half as much money and effort into removing barriers and discouragement for our private sector commerce and industry as they put into the damage it has done by meddling in the private sector, we probably wouldn't even be having this discussion.

 

[JoeNormal]

That is what commerce and industry is. It is business owners looking to make a profit and for 99% of them, that is their only reason for taking the very real risk to open and operate a business. But in the process of making that profit, they become customers for other businesses, provide products and services that their own customers want and need, and, they provide opportunity for others to profit themselves and all that self-serving activity drives a robust economy and gives everybody more opportunity to prosper. Almost all of the people who work for somebody instead of running their own businesses work purely based on a profit motive too.

Businesses with a happy work force will almost always prosper more than those with a disgruntled work force, therefore there is a profit motive to treat the people who work for you well. The bad employer will not prosper as much because he won't keep good people.

Massive outsourcing and ultra-cheap foreign labor/products effectively short circuits this example of a well functioning economy.

Massive outsourcing and ultra-cheap foreign labor/products is a symptom of an economy that isn't functioning well almost always due to excessive government meddling, interference, and incompetence. But even those negatives do not change the benefits of the private sector commerce and industry that is happening here in the USA. If the government put just half as much money and effort into removing barriers and discouragement for our private sector commerce and industry as they put into the damage it has done by meddling in the private sector, we probably wouldn't even be having this discussion.

It seems to me that left unencumbered by the rules that the government SHOULD be enforcing, corporations would get away with even more crap than they do. What regulations do you think are impeding private sector commerce?

 

[Foxfyre]

Massive outsourcing and ultra-cheap foreign labor/products effectively short circuits this example of a well functioning economy.

Massive outsourcing and ultra-cheap foreign labor/products is a symptom of an economy that isn't functioning well almost always due to excessive government meddling, interference, and incompetence. But even those negatives do not change the benefits of the private sector commerce and industry that is happening here in the USA. If the government put just half as much money and effort into removing barriers and discouragement for our private sector commerce and industry as they put into the damage it has done by meddling in the private sector, we probably wouldn't even be having this discussion.

It seems to me that left unencumbered by the rules that the government SHOULD be enforcing, corporations would get away with even more crap than they do. What regulations do you think are impeding private sector commerce?

There are more than I would care to take the time to list here. But just a few are oppressive wage/hour laws, too high taxation with constant threats of even more taxes piled on top of that, unnecessary and unreasonable environmental requirements, barriers to development and expansion--think the Keystone Pipeline just for one. And the mandates associated with Obamacare are likely to be the largest killer of both businesses and jobs this country has ever seen.

 

[JoeNormal]

Massive outsourcing and ultra-cheap foreign labor/products is a symptom of an economy that isn't functioning well almost always due to excessive government meddling, interference, and incompetence. But even those negatives do not change the benefits of the private sector commerce and industry that is happening here in the USA. If the government put just half as much money and effort into removing barriers and discouragement for our private sector commerce and industry as they put into the damage it has done by meddling in the private sector, we probably wouldn't even be having this discussion.

It seems to me that left unencumbered by the rules that the government SHOULD be enforcing, corporations would get away with even more crap than they do. What regulations do you think are impeding private sector commerce?

There are more than I would care to take the time to list here. But just a few are oppressive wage/hour laws, too high taxation with constant threats of even more taxes piled on top of that, unnecessary and unreasonable environmental requirements, barriers to development and expansion--think the Keystone Pipeline just for one. And the mandates associated with Obamacare are likely to be the largest killer of both businesses and jobs this country has ever seen.

The Keystone pipeline would be the biggest environmental disaster to befall this country even if it didn't spill a drop. And where do you think wages and hours would end up if left to a world market of starving slaves? I have some very marketable skills and I wouldn't even want to contemplate that one.

 

[Foxfyre]

It seems to me that left unencumbered by the rules that the government SHOULD be enforcing, corporations would get away with even more crap than they do. What regulations do you think are impeding private sector commerce?

There are more than I would care to take the time to list here. But just a few are oppressive wage/hour laws, too high taxation with constant threats of even more taxes piled on top of that, unnecessary and unreasonable environmental requirements, barriers to development and expansion--think the Keystone Pipeline just for one. And the mandates associated with Obamacare are likely to be the largest killer of both businesses and jobs this country has ever seen.

The Keystone pipeline would be the biggest environmental disaster to befall this country even if it didn't spill a drop. And where do you think wages and hours would end up if left to a world market of starving slaves? I have some very marketable skills and I wouldn't even want to contemplate that one.

Well since I have worked and lived with many many such pipelines, without a single environmental disaster yet I simply can't agree with you on that one. Nor have I yet seen a robust economy and full employment produce any kind of market of starving slaves, world or otherwise. Do you exaggerate that much on everything? Or just on the subject of creating jobs for all who want them?

 

[P@triot]

I'm sure this will bounce off your thick skull the way it has every other time someone has attempted to explain it to you. This time rather than introducing you to concepts like logarithmic gaussian distribution or even simple bar graphs, I'll reiterate a very succinct statement made on this board (by whom I can't remember): The rich have all the money, who the fuck do you think should pay the taxes?

You mean, the rich have all the money like the "1% owns 99% of the money" liberal LIE or the rich have all the money like the "1% earned 13% of the wealth" reality?

Here's the thing that you are incapable of grasping [MENTION=37583]JoeNormal[/MENTION] - only a fuck'n moron rewards failure and punishes success. Because someone wasn't as smart as Steve Jobs, didn't work as hard as Steve Jobs, and wasn't willing to take risk like Steve Jobs, you think they should be rewarded with a free ride while Steve Jobs is punished with carrying the load for you millions of free loading parasites? Really?

It's no wonder liberal policy always ends with failure, collapse, and poverty...

I can guarantee that I have way more in common with Steve Jobs than you do you fucking moron. There comes a point when throwing more money at something doesn't create any further effect. (I thought that was a conservative cornerstone.) People are no more motivated to do what they do if you give them billions of dollars than if you gave them a hundred million.

And how motivated are they when you pay them to sit on their couch shooting up heroin, you fuck'n moron?

 

[P@triot]

No doubt, a few things are bloated (defense) but I don't buy that everything across the board is as mismanaged as right wing pundits would have us believe.

Can you name one government program that is well managed? Just one.

I'll name two - Medicare and the VA Hospital.

Folks, this is simply an astounding display of profound ignorance. The dreadful conditions of the VA hosptials made nations news for months at one point. How [MENTION=37583]JoeNormal[/MENTION] could be this ignorant of national news simply defies belief...

Some Veterans' Hospitals in Shocking Shape - ABC News

Walter Reed Army Medical Center neglect scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

'It Is Just Not Walter Reed'

 

[P@triot]

It seems to me that left unencumbered by the rules that the government SHOULD be enforcing, corporations would get away with even more crap than they do. What regulations do you think are impeding private sector commerce?

There are more than I would care to take the time to list here. But just a few are oppressive wage/hour laws, too high taxation with constant threats of even more taxes piled on top of that, unnecessary and unreasonable environmental requirements, barriers to development and expansion--think the Keystone Pipeline just for one. And the mandates associated with Obamacare are likely to be the largest killer of both businesses and jobs this country has ever seen.

The Keystone pipeline would be the biggest environmental disaster to befall this country even if it didn't spill a drop. And where do you think wages and hours would end up if left to a world market of starving slaves? I have some very marketable skills and I wouldn't even want to contemplate that one.

It's "disastrous" to safely funnel oil through a pipeline in your mind?

Any wonder Dumbocrat policy ends with collapse, poverty, and misery when people like this make up their base?

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

If you've applied what you learned in the military to a successful civilian life, you're one of a fortunate minority from the statistics that I've read. And yes, education is an avenue that has some possibilities - one of the bits of popular propaganda has been that high tech, knowledge jobs would replace the manufacturing labor that was lost. I'm one of the fortunate minority for whom that's worked out on the other hand. In either case, that paradigm isn't working for a large number of people any longer.

Yes the military has been a very successful avenue for my life. As far as manufacturing, it has changed and progressed over the years. However, new jobs are always evolving as technology and needs change. Our society has always shifted into new forms and types of jobs, from pony express and ice boxes, to automated assembly lines and computers, you just have to be willing to change with it as you seek new opportunities. Those who are pessimistic will always complain while they settle for the lower paying careers or look to someone else .. like government .. to take care of them through welfare or other assistance. You simply have to seek out those new opportunities that are starting to surface and take shape if you want something more. Through it all it still comes down to education, willingness to find new opportunity, and the effort to get there. You can complain about how it used to be all you want, while others "choose" to find a different career path for their lives. It always comes down to the choices we make for ourselves.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

If you've applied what you learned in the military to a successful civilian life, you're one of a fortunate minority from the statistics that I've read. And yes, education is an avenue that has some possibilities - one of the bits of popular propaganda has been that high tech, knowledge jobs would replace the manufacturing labor that was lost. I'm one of the fortunate minority for whom that's worked out on the other hand. In either case, that paradigm isn't working for a large number of people any longer.

why have those manufacturing jobs left this country? Any idea? Why is there no longer a textile mill in South Carolina or Georgia? why is the once great city of detroit a cess pool of crime and corruption and misery?

Here's your answer-----------Taxes and Unions.
Secondary answer----------liberalism.
third answer--------lack of fiscal responsibility i.e. liberalism

No, it's because we were sold out by trade agreements that don't place any sort of penalty on cheap goods entering the country.

Actually high taxes on businesses doesn't help in contributing to a welcome environment. Tell me just one thing that liberal Democrats do that encourages businesses to actually come INTO this country? What policies or regulations have they passed to help bring businesses here and allow them to establish themselves in this country, rather than simply ship their goods from overseas?

 

[Redfish]

I'll name two - Medicare and the VA Hospital.

Medicare is going broke, it is full of massive waste, fraud, and abuse. Now, if you want an example of a well run medicare program--------look at medicare advantage, run by insurance companies using medicare funds, provides excellent low cost coverage for millions of seniors---------oh, and obama took 700 billion from it to fund obamacare.

Some VA hospitals are OK, but many are the last place you want to go if you are sick.

I don't have time to look into medicare advantage right now but I suspect that if insurance companies are running it, they aren't dealing with the terminally ill or severely handicapped who should have the common decency to just shuffle off and die as quickly as possible.

totally 100% wrong.

 

[Redfish]

It seems to me that left unencumbered by the rules that the government SHOULD be enforcing, corporations would get away with even more crap than they do. What regulations do you think are impeding private sector commerce?

There are more than I would care to take the time to list here. But just a few are oppressive wage/hour laws, too high taxation with constant threats of even more taxes piled on top of that, unnecessary and unreasonable environmental requirements, barriers to development and expansion--think the Keystone Pipeline just for one. And the mandates associated with Obamacare are likely to be the largest killer of both businesses and jobs this country has ever seen.

The Keystone pipeline would be the biggest environmental disaster to befall this country even if it didn't spill a drop. And where do you think wages and hours would end up if left to a world market of starving slaves? I have some very marketable skills and I wouldn't even want to contemplate that one.

you are really weird or really dumb. I don't yet know which. Do you have any idea how many miles of piplelines already exist in this country? Moving oil by pipeline is much saver than moving it by truck or train.

 

[TRFjr]

The wealthy can afford to pay much higher rates, and still live very comfy lives.

That's the logic of a theif: I steel from the rich because they have more money.



You just admitted you're a confiscatory Marxist. You may not want to shoot the rich, but you sure as hell want to take most of what they earn.

We aren't communists, we are liberals. And the Right's failure to see the difference is one of the reasons why they've been losing.

You are communists. The end result of your schemes will be indistinguishable from the Soviet Union.

You don't actually wonder why Mitt lost, do you?

Conservatives like you are part of the reason Mitt lost. Your debate skills are perfectly matched for arguments against Communists, who aren't running for office in the United States in any serious way. Conservatives need to up their game against Liberals instead of Communists. The refusal of conservatives to acknowledge any difference between liberals and communists is why conservative arguments come across as shrill and insane. Voters hear conservatives shriek about "Obamao" and think the conservative is unhinged and loony. Listen, I'm trying to help you.

first of all Romney lost because he wasn't a conservative you complain conservative compare liberals to communist then turn around and say Romney is a conservative. It is you who are clue less and doesn't understand the difference between Romney and a conservative a conservative would have never implemented Romney care a libertarian would have never implemented Romney care that is the work of a Rino

Liberals are communist their agenda of wealth redistribution, a big centralized government that wants to control every aspect of your life, and the slow erosion of a persons liberty for the grater good of the collective is straight out of the pages of the communist manifesto. just disguised in clever catch phrase like paying your fare share, income inequality, and you didn't build that. You even use the same tactics of divide and conquer and class warfare as a communist

What we have here folks it what Lenin called a useful idiot

a useful idiot is a term for people perceived as propagandists for a cause whose goals they are not fully aware of, and who are used cynically by the leaders of the cause.

 

[P@triot]

People who have wealth pay sales taxes on what they spend, and pay property taxes on real estate they own, and pay fuel taxes on the gasoline they put in their cars or whatever. But it doesn't matter how much people own that determines how much income tax they pay. It matters how much their earn.

The liberals/statists/progressives/leftists/poltical class want to charge sky high income taxes on the rich because they have so much. But the net effect is simply to encourage the rich to a) not use their money because they'll be punished for it if they do or b) to take their money elsewhere to invest where the tax climate is friendlier.

In other words, the class envy group invariably cuts off their noses to spite their faces in their obsession with somehow taking down the rich.

How much more compassionate, productive, and reasonable would it be to encourage those rich as much as possible to use their money to start and grow businesses and hire people and give folks a chance to become rich? Or at least richer? And a uniform flat tax would accomplish just that.

Modern day American conservatives mostly think like that. But others simply can't put aside their envy, jealousy, and resentment of the rich long enough to see the forest amidst the trees.

 

[Mac1958]

I don't have time to look into medicare advantage right now but I suspect that if insurance companies are running it, they aren't dealing with the terminally ill or severely handicapped who should have the common decency to just shuffle off and die as quickly as possible.

Perfectly, beautifully, wonderfully 100% wrong.

Medicare Advantage plans have to take and serve all applicants regardless of health history or pre-existing conditions. They also add wonderful complimentary services such as health club memberships to keep seniors healthy, active and engaged. At least most of them do, a fine example of the creativity of free market competition.

Dang, my kingdom for some educated debate on this topic.

.

 

[P@triot]

You don't actually wonder why Mitt lost, do you?

Conservatives like you are part of the reason Mitt lost. Your debate skills are perfectly matched for arguments against Communists, who aren't running for office in the United States in any serious way. Conservatives need to up their game against Liberals instead of Communists. The refusal of conservatives to acknowledge any difference between liberals and communists is why conservative arguments come across as shrill and insane. Voters hear conservatives shriek about "Obamao" and think the conservative is unhinged and loony. Listen, I'm trying to help you.

I'm always amazed at how ashamed the left is of the ideology they support. It reminds me (and disgusts me in the same way) of the pedophile who vehemently denies being a pedophile. If you are so ashamed of who and what you are, that you have to deny who and what you are, then clearly you shouldn't be that person.

The left supports the flat out murder of children. But they are so ashamed, they can't say "pro-murder" (or even "pro-abortion" for that matter). Nope, they have to lie about what they are, change the narrative, and call it "pro-choice". By that logic, Ted Bundy wasn't a serial-killer. He was simply "pro-choice".

They left supports taking wealth away from someone who earned it and handing it over to someone who didn't do a fuck'n thing to earn it. But after marxism failed miserably, they couldn't bring themselves to admit it. So instead, they did the same thing again, only called it communism. After communism failed miserably, they couldn't bring themselves to admit it. So instead, they did the same thing again, only called it socialism (believing adding the word "social" would make people view it less harsh). After socialism failed miserably, they couldn't bring themselves to admit it. So instead, they did the same thing again, only called it progressivism. After progressivism failed miserably, they couldn't bring themselves to admit it. So instead, they did the same thing again, only called it liberalism. It's pathetic, and it speaks volumes that they are so ashamed to admit who and what they are.

I'm damn proud to be a conservative. I'm damn proud to support the Constitution 100%. Every part of it. I support the federal government and their 18 enumerated powers 100%. I don't have to give a new name to my conservatism because of my shame.

[MENTION=43062]velvtacheeze[/MENTION] - if you support redistributing wealth, you are a communist. Deal with it. Be a big boy and own it. Don't be a coward. If you support it, be man enough to admit it. If you're so ashamed, perhaps you need to rethink your ideology?