The two ends of the political spectrum are killing us

[BrokeLoser]

Moderates are the real people.

There are no moderates in these times. Those who insist on staying moderate right now are worthless, do-nothing fence-sitters…..Moderates can only exist when the party ideologies are measurably close in nature.

 

[Mac1958]

I don't really see Republicans and Democrats as far right or far left. That assumes at least some kind of ideology or principles at work.

It's a regression. Primitive behavior.

 

[there4eyeM]

There is other than "moderate".

 

[Mac1958]

There is other than "moderate".

 

[BrokeLoser]

if you cant see that there is a far right then you must be one of them....

What is “far right”?
Is that when one is too patriotic?
Too moral?
Too religious?
Too concerned with keeping America the same America we inherited?
Too defensive of attacks on Americas core principles and values?
Too concerned with Americas right to sovereignty?

 

[there4eyeM]

There are other paths than that on which the "left" and "right" and "moderates" find themselves. It doesn't require money or real estate; it requires minds.

 

[Doug1943]

That's all but impossible here.

I talk regularly about how the biggest culprit in this mess is a political/electoral system that incentivizes and rewards the worst impulses of its participants. But I can't say that even fixing it would be enough, though we do have to try.

This cancer is now cultural. And it seems that the only way you can fix a profound cultural problem is culturally. That means the biggest, most influential voices on the ends have to lead the way. They have to reverse course, away from division, clearly and completely.

Then, each end of the spectrum has to do what it hasn't done for a long time: Hold its own tribe accountable.

I don't see how we're close to any of that happening, and I don't know what stops this whole thing from getting even worse.

I agree with you here. (I've thought a lot about what sort of political arrangements would best preserve/extend democracy, but allow for minority interests to be protected, while also providing essential political stability, with, if possible, some way to allow special input/advice from people recognized as particularly wise. What the Founders wanted, I think. But this sort of change would be very hard to bring about even in a stable situation -- where we are now, it's just a distraction.

The key is to understand why we have sunk into this. The book by Katie Roche I've just mentioned has an interesting analysis of the 'woke' generation -- it makes sense to me, but she doesn't cite any supporting hard data.

I believe that both America's supreme position in the world, militarily and economically, for the last half of the 20th Century, and then its slide down starting in this century, must have a lot to do with it.

Leftists point to growing extreme inequality, the growing economic precariousness of people in the non-college-educated sector [and not just them] ... and they're not wrong. This has upended the Republican Party and is, I think, behind the Trump phenomenon.

I don't see any change in a positive direction coming. And, there are other converging negative developments that are not internal to America but will affect it.

Which is why I think we ought to be talking about a peaceful separation.

If you haven't heard of him, you might like to look at the work of Francis Buckley. He would like to see the Republicans become 'The Republican Workers Party', with essentially the same program as European Christian Democrats.

 

[there4eyeM]

"The love of money is the root of all evil."

 

[initforme]

There are no moderates in these times. Those who insist on staying moderate right now are worthless, do-nothing fence-sitters…..Moderates can only exist when the party ideologies are measurably close in nature.

They're the most important and most patriotic Americans. That's a fact.

 

[Mac1958]

They're the most important and most patriotic Americans. That's a fact.

The two far ends of the political spectrum hate those who choose to think for themselves, because they expose the ends for what they are.

That hate has been increasing as the two ends drift further and further apart.

 

[marvin martian]

Not that there was ever any question about it, but you just outed yourself again, dipshit:

There's a difference between actually being a racist and enabling racism.

Racism is enabled when it's dismissed, minimized and deflected from. When people refuse to hold other people accountable for it. Something we see on USMB pretty regularly.

Personally, I think that those who enable it are worse in the big picture.

There ya go. Another fine example of how Trumpsters enable white racism by deflecting and spinning for it.

Enablers of racism are probably worse than individual racists.

Pitch-perfect.

"Exactly like Nazis"

Hitler, Nazi, Fascist.

Literally! Nazi! Hitler! Fascist!

 

[BrokeLoser]

They're the most important and most patriotic Americans. That's a fact.

The two far ends of the political spectrum hate those who choose to think for themselves, because they expose the ends for what they are.

That hate has been increasing as the two ends drift further and further apart.

The “moderate” in these times (which neither of you leftists are) is the spineless coward afraid to engage in the fight to protect America. Patriots love and respect all things America….neither of you two are patriots.
This shit isn’t complicated at all.

 

[Mac1958]

The “moderate” in these times (which neither of you leftists are) is the spineless coward afraid to engage in the fight to protect America. Patriots love and respect all things America….neither of you two are patriots.
This shit isn’t complicated at all.

We both know you can't point to any left wing positions that I hold. Let alone several.

So I'll just watch as you twist in the wind and flail like a good rube.

 

[marvin martian]

We both know you can't point to any left wing positions that I hold. Let alone several.

So I'll just watch as you twist in the wind and flail like a good rube.

You voted for the most radically left-wing administration in American history.

 

[Doug1943]

Okay, Mac. What do you think about the issue of Free Speech?

Starting in the 1970s, and getting worse year by year, Leftwing students on college campuses have been breaking up conservative meetings. Their rationale is that we are 'fascists', and there should be 'no platform for fascists'.

Before the 1970s, Free Speech was a 'Left wing' issue. For the Right, it wasn't. Now the two sides seem to have changed places. But I know there are people on the Left who still believe in Free Speech. How about you?

 

[d0gbreath]

What is “far right”?
Is that when one is too patriotic?
Too moral?
Too religious?
Too concerned with keeping America the same America we inherited?
Too defensive of attacks on Americas core principles and values?
Too concerned with Americas right to sovereignty?

Too stupid is the correct answer.

 

[BrokeLoser]

Too stupid is the correct answer.

Hahaha…how weird, I’d never expect a hardcore leftist to say such a thing.

 

[sparky]

Ideological politics poisons everything it touches. Now it's putting this country at risk of falling apart. Great job, gang. You're BOTH so much like those you hate, and you just won't stop.

LOL Mac...

This country's consistently failed their true constituency , because they have not represented us for quite a while

We the Peeps have long since become We the Sheeps, all to this very simple easy to digest philosophy of having the powers that be pit us against each other

There really is no left/right , at least anywhere near the up/down in America in terms of idealoges , control freaks and power mongers

This is clear to those of us that can rise above the fray of contrived partisanship

~S~

 

[BlackSand]

Anyway, it would be interesting to have a debate/discussion/argument, on another thread. But how to gently discourage the ones who just want to throw insults?

.

There's a Zone 1-Clean Debate subforum in the US Discussion Section ...
And a Structured Debate subforum in Area 51 Section.

But ... You have been here a while and should know that.
Kind of like Mac knows that too ... And I guess it's not really what he was looking for ...

.​

 

[Mac1958]

.

There's a Zone 1-Clean Debate subforum in the US Discussion Section ...
And a Structured Debate subforum in Area 51 Section.

But ... You have been here a while and should know that.
Kind of like Mac knows that too ... And I guess it's not really what he was looking for ...

.​

Yes, exactly. I want you people to feel free to be what I already know you are.

Freedom!