The two ends of the political spectrum are killing us

[Doug1943]

"Far Right" used to mean "fascist" or "extreme ethnic nationalist". But over the years, it has simply become, for people on the Left, a term of abuse against any conservative.

For example: if you oppose unlimited immigration/Open Borders, you will get called "far Right". Donald Trump is called "far Right". It's now a meaningless term.

 

[BlackSand]

Ah. A case of the inmates running the asylum? Not a bad idea, actually. They know it best. And it saves on staff wages.

.

Oh ... No one in their right mind would allow me to run this place ...
The Staff sucks ... But we don't really need them anyway.

You put some thought and effort into what you post and it's worth reading.
Have A Lovely Evening ... And See Ya Around.

.​

 

[progressive hunter]

Political overcompensation is the new Great American Pastime.

A few years ago, some of us were warning the Left: You're going too far with Political Correctness and Identity Politics. You're going too far screaming RACIST at every last fucking thing that moves. You're going too far lowering standards and expectations for people based solely on their skin color. You're going too far in normalizing sexual disorders such as gender dysphoria. You're going too far in putting your agenda in schools. You're going too far in disallowing conservative voices on college campuses. And most of all, you're going too far in attacking, intimidating and penalizing people in everyday life for saying things you don't like.

There's going to be pushback, we said. You're overcompensating, we said. This stuff is not right, we said. I only said that a few thousand times here, to be met with attacks from the Left. (By the way, a zillion examples of that available upon request via the search function)

So now we see the pushback, with this Neanderthal, middle school bully-approach to the culture from the Right. This is the pushback we warned about -- although, admittedly, even worse than I imagined. And this sucker has legs, just like your weaponized PC and Identity Politics did. They're making laws and attacking and intimidating. Gee, what a coincidence. What Deja Vu we're seeing, huh? Go figure!

And most amazing of all, this pushback included the election of a petulant child, an obvious con man, an orange buffoon, in 2016, and all the fucking unbelievable madness that has followed.

No doubt there will be pushback to this, too. Back and forth. Back and forth. More and more damage.

Ideological politics poisons everything it touches. Now it's putting this country at risk of falling apart. Great job, gang. You're BOTH so much like those you hate, and you just won't stop.

Young Republicans Are Begging Party Elders To Stop Saying 'Woke'

The next generation of conservatives support their party's culture wars. But they hate the way they describe them

www.rollingstone.com

I disagree..

whos tearing this country apart are the two left wing uniparty members known as the democratic and republicans

to call republicans rightwing is just a flat out lie,,,

 

[progressive hunter]

"Far Right" used to mean "fascist" or "extreme ethnic nationalist". But over the years, it has simply become, for people on the Left, a term of abuse against any conservative.

For example: if you oppose unlimited immigration/Open Borders, you will get called "far Right". Donald Trump is called "far Right". It's now a meaningless term.

in this country the far right is anarchists,,,

 

[Mac1958]

On a forum like this, there are intelligent liberals/progressives, etc ... people on the Left. My side needs to convince as many of you as possible that we have important things to say. For example, did you read what I posted about Michaela School?

No, but I looked it up.

You may see the more feral Trumpsters here calling me a left winger, but I'm not. They just simplistically knee-jerk to that because of my opinions on the sociological implications of Trumpism. Strangely enough, I'm not even all that political, because I just don't understand the counterproductive behaviors associated with politics.

I only bring this up because I think you're hitting on a key point here. I agree, at least to a degree, with many of the opinions of the Right. The Michaela School is interesting. The problem I have is, and you're hitting on it a little, is this shallow, ham-handed, pound-on-it-with-a-rock, unintelligent way they APPROACH the problem, only making it worse.

I've told both ends the same thing: The goal is not the problem. It's the WAY we go about REACHING the goal that is the problem. If it's the wrong way, it will only create NEW problems, new resentments, new barriers. If it's one-sided and combative, it won't last. Innovating means that both ends have both input and accountability. There is NONE of that right now.

 

[dblack]

Ranked Choice Voting would go a long way toward rewarding consensus seekers. And it would do away with lesser-of-two-evils as a partisan scare tactic. Over time, I think it would walk us back from the brink. But I don't know how much time we have.

 

[Doug1943]

in this country the far right is anarchists,,,

Hmm... never heard the term used that way before. I know a lot of Anti-Fa call themselves anarchists, but I wouldn't think that they would be called 'far right'.

 

[Doug1943]

Ranked Choice Voting would go a long way toward rewarding consensus seekers. And it would do away with lesser-of-two-evils as a partisan scare tactic. Over time, I think it would walk us back from the brink. But I don't know how much time we have.

It would certainly make politics more interesting. It would have to be easier for third parties to get on the ballot, though.

 

[progressive hunter]

Hmm... never heard the term used that way before. I know a lot of Anti-Fa call themselves anarchists, but I wouldn't think that they would be called 'far right'.

antifa isnt even close to being anarchist,, they are violent authoritarians using violence to push their agenda,,,

as for the far right being anarchist you would have to look back at the founding where they worked on a freedom scale with full authoritarian being far left and total freedom/anarchy being far right,

of course some founders have different ideas, some even wanted a king,
but what they did first was the articles of confederation which was closer to anarchy and as we saw that didnt work and they came back and did the constitution we now have whic sits about the middle of the freedom scale,,

also keep in mind I am talking about the fed gov,, the states are another issue with different rules,,

thats what they called the american experiment,,

 

[Doug1943]

No, but I looked it up.

You may see the more feral Trumpsters here calling me a left winger, but I'm not. They just simplistically knee-jerk to that because of my opinions on the sociological implications of Trumpism. Strangely enough, I'm not even all that political, because I just don't understand the counterproductive behaviors associated with politics.

I only bring this up because I think you're hitting on a key point here. I agree, at least to a degree, with many of the opinions of the Right. The Michaela School is interesting. The problem I have is, and you're hitting on it a little, is this shallow, ham-handed, pound-on-it-with-a-rock, unintelligent way they APPROACH the problem, only making it worse.

I've told both ends the same thing: The goal is not the problem. It's the WAY we go about REACHING the goal that is the problem. If it's the wrong way, it will only create NEW problems. If it's one-sided and combative, it won't last. Innovating means that both ends have both input and accountability. There is NONE of that right now.

Well ... one problem is that the issues that really divide us -- "culture war" issues -- don't seem to be amenable to an "innovate" approach. And they don't seem to be the kind of issues where you can split the difference. And even when they were, from my side's point of view, the Left just keeps on pushing.

An example is the gay question. Up until not too long ago, it was illegal. Then, over a few decades, we reached a kind of compromise, coming from the libertarian strain within conservatism.

The basic idea was that the government had no right to tell two consenting adults what they could and couldn't do in the bedroom. I think most people on my side were happy with that. In daily life, it meant accepting that, in a government job, you couldn't be fired because you were gay. In the military, it meant "Don't ask, don't tell".

But ... that wasn't enough. Gay marriage was demanded. I thought we had a pretty good compromise in the concept of a "Civic Partnership", which would give gay couples the legal advantages of married couples with respect to inheritance, vistation rights in hospital, etc.

But that wasn't enough. Then on we wen to putting people out of business, or in prison, if they wouldn't bake a wedding cake for a gay marriage. And in the schools, positive pro-homosexual propaganda for kids.

So, although the idea of 'getting along with each other', 'live and let live', etc. sounds good -- I'm afraid my side doesn't believe that that's what your side really wants. Sort of like Hitler's claim, "This is my last territorial demand in Europe". Uh huh.

 

[dblack]

Well ... one problem is that the issues that really divide us -- "culture war" issues -- don't seem to be amenable to an "innovate" approach. And they don't seem to be the kind of issues where you can split the difference. And even when they were, from my side's point of view, the Left just keeps on pushing.

In a pluralistic society, the only way for government to deal productively with cultural issues is to not.

 

[Doug1943]

In a pluralistic society, the only way for government to deal productively with cultural issues is to not.

Yes, that's a good way to put it. BUT ... on the Left, many 'cultural issues' are seen as 'rights issues'. So, if I have a bakery, according to the people on the Left, I MUST bake a cake for a gay wedding. And a school MUST fly a gay flag, etc. And if someone is offended by an American flag, it must be taken down.

And ... our public education system exists to inculcate our culture. For the Left, that means a culture that recognizes that America is founded on, steeped in, racism and sexism and heteronormativism etc...so this must be taught in school, so that it can be eradicated from our children.

We ought to be polite to our political opponents on the Left. We ought to try to convince them, not insult them.

But we must not kid ourselves about the irreconcilable differences between us. We're not going to compromise our way out of this.

 

[BlackSand]

But we must not kid ourselves about the irreconcilable differences between us.

.

They are only irreconcilable differences ... If we insist someone else must do something.

A baker does not have to surrender their Right to Practice their Religion ... For a Homosexual couple to get Married and have a wedding cake.
It becomes irreconcilable when one tries to insist we violate the rights of one to satisfy another ... And it doesn't have to be that way.

We don't have to make the baker bake them a cake.
There's plenty of places that make cakes ... And the baker is not preventing them from getting married.
They are irreconcilable ... Because one side demands Compliance ... And in violation of the other's Rights.

If you cannot discriminate on the basis of Race, Gender, Age, Religion or Sexual Orientation ...
Then Religion and Sexual Orientation are both in there.

.​

 

[Burgermeister]

No, the left is killing us.

 

[bripat9643]

Political overcompensation is the new Great American Pastime.

A few years ago, some of us were warning the Left: You're going too far with Political Correctness and Identity Politics. You're going too far screaming RACIST at every last fucking thing that moves. You're going too far lowering standards and expectations for people based solely on their skin color. You're going too far in normalizing sexual disorders such as gender dysphoria. You're going too far in putting your agenda in schools. You're going too far in disallowing conservative voices on college campuses. And most of all, you're going too far in attacking, intimidating and penalizing people in everyday life for saying things you don't like.

There's going to be pushback, we said. You're overcompensating, we said. This stuff is not right, we said. I only said that a few thousand times here, to be met with attacks from the Left. (By the way, a zillion examples of that available upon request via the search function)

So now we see the pushback, with this Neanderthal, middle school bully-approach to the culture from the Right. This is the pushback we warned about -- although, admittedly, even worse than I imagined. And this sucker has legs, just like your weaponized PC and Identity Politics did. They're making laws and attacking and intimidating. Gee, what a coincidence. What Deja Vu we're seeing, huh? Go figure!

And most amazing of all, this pushback included the election of a petulant child, an obvious con man, an orange buffoon, in 2016, and all the fucking unbelievable madness that has followed.

No doubt there will be pushback to this, too. Back and forth. Back and forth. More and more damage.

Ideological politics poisons everything it touches. Now it's putting this country at risk of falling apart. Great job, gang. You're BOTH so much like those you hate, and you just won't stop.

Young Republicans Are Begging Party Elders To Stop Saying 'Woke'

The next generation of conservatives support their party's culture wars. But they hate the way they describe them

www.rollingstone.com

Progs are killing us. The right isn't hurting us in any way.

 

[bripat9643]

I had it with the republicans, I'll vote democrats.

Yeah, like you ever voted for Republicans.

Who do you think you're fooling?

 

[bripat9643]

I'll just keep asking:

To the two ends:

How do you intellectually reconcile the fact that half the country disagrees with you, as you push so hard to shove your agenda down their throat?

Is it that you just know what's best for them?

What is your inner justification for that?

I'm not pushing my agenda down their throat. I'm just trying to stop them from them pushing their agenda down my throat.

 

[scruffy]

I don’t disagree with that, but you have a problem. The R Party is no different from the D Party. So your supporting them makes you an accessory to the problem you abhor.

Logical fallacy.

Calling out the D does not mean I support the R.

I simply support all forces that oppose D, because D is fucking EVIL right now.

 

[scruffy]

This is the behavior our system rewards. It feeds the worst and ugliest impulses of the most unhinged Americans.

As long as we don't care enough to fix the system, the ends of the spectrum will keep bringing us down.

Oh, you mean like the asswipes that are calling everyone 'election deniers' ?

 

[BlackSand]

I'm not pushing my agenda down their throat. I'm just trying to stop them from them pushing their agenda down my throat.

.

It's like when someone suggests you should find a compromise between whether they cut off your left arm or your right arm ...
Screw compromise or consensus ... Shoot the bastard in the face ... The Founders left you the opportunity to ...

.​