The U.S. NOT founded upon Christianity

[TheBrain]

Let me check again....nope, your opinion didn't change my 21 years serving our country. No need to thank me. It was my pleasure to serve.

Yes, I'm aware you have no problem lying to yourself; but every person that reads this thread will now know that you disgraced your uniform by lying about violating the UCMJ.

Most people here know I'm retired military and that I am gay. And they have for a long time. It is only a very few like yourself who whine about my service to our country. It says a great deal more about you than it does about me.

I'm not whining about anything stupid. I am merely pointing out that you were in violation of the UCMJ and don't even have the honor to admit that. I in fact have agreed with you that the rules needed to be changed, and I'm glad they have been, but that doesn't change the fact that your honor is impugned by you're lying about it. Your lack of honor in this area leads me to question the honesty of EVERY post you make and further leads me to believe that gays can NOT be seen as a good moral example for anyone.

 

[Montrovant]

Yes, I'm aware you have no problem lying to yourself; but every person that reads this thread will now know that you disgraced your uniform by lying about violating the UCMJ.

Most people here know I'm retired military and that I am gay. And they have for a long time. It is only a very few like yourself who whine about my service to our country. It says a great deal more about you than it does about me.

I'm not whining about anything stupid. I am merely pointing out that you were in violation of the UCMJ and don't even have the honor to admit that. I in fact have agreed with you that the rules needed to be changed, and I'm glad they have been, but that doesn't change the fact that your honor is impugned by you're lying about it. Your lack of honor in this area leads me to question the honesty of EVERY post you make and further leads me to believe that gays can NOT be seen as a good moral example for anyone.

I hope this was just a dig at Bod because whoa, that's a leap! Bod is dishonest, therefor gays are immoral?

This is probably one of those conversations I shouldn't have jumped into.

 

[bodecea]

He's just pointing out that you have no problem with dishonesty.

And you don't.

I served my country...our country...for 21 years come bad or good. Please....DO continue about how I was dishonest about serving. It entertains me to watch your pettiness.

 

[TheBrain]

Most people here know I'm retired military and that I am gay. And they have for a long time. It is only a very few like yourself who whine about my service to our country. It says a great deal more about you than it does about me.

I'm not whining about anything stupid. I am merely pointing out that you were in violation of the UCMJ and don't even have the honor to admit that. I in fact have agreed with you that the rules needed to be changed, and I'm glad they have been, but that doesn't change the fact that your honor is impugned by you're lying about it. Your lack of honor in this area leads me to question the honesty of EVERY post you make and further leads me to believe that gays can NOT be seen as a good moral example for anyone.

I hope this was just a dig at Bod because whoa, that's a leap! Bod is dishonest, therefor gays are immoral?

This is probably one of those conversations I shouldn't have jumped into.

Not QUITE what I was saying. Merely saying that she is on here and made the specific claim that gays can be as moral as non gays and then immediately proceeded to lie and refuse to admit to it, or anything else she has gotten wrong in this thread for that matter.

Just seems that if one were wanting to prove that they were as moral as the next person, they would in fact act morally.

 

[TheBrain]

He's just pointing out that you have no problem with dishonesty.

And you don't.

I served my country...our country...for 21 years come bad or good. Please....DO continue about how I was dishonest about serving. It entertains me to watch your pettiness.

No one questions whether you fulfilled your duties moron. A drug dealer could certainly fulfill their obligation to the military as well, but they are violating the UCMJ.

Do you acknowledge that you violated the UCMJ as it stood at the time by being a gay in the military, yes or no?

 

[bodecea]

Most people here know I'm retired military and that I am gay. And they have for a long time. It is only a very few like yourself who whine about my service to our country. It says a great deal more about you than it does about me.

I'm not whining about anything stupid. I am merely pointing out that you were in violation of the UCMJ and don't even have the honor to admit that. I in fact have agreed with you that the rules needed to be changed, and I'm glad they have been, but that doesn't change the fact that your honor is impugned by you're lying about it. Your lack of honor in this area leads me to question the honesty of EVERY post you make and further leads me to believe that gays can NOT be seen as a good moral example for anyone.

I hope this was just a dig at Bod because whoa, that's a leap! Bod is dishonest, therefor gays are immoral?

This is probably one of those conversations I shouldn't have jumped into.

They're unhappy because I was willing to forego an "out" life to serve our country for 21 years. It seems to upset their high moral standards.

They probably won't want to hear how I also was willing to forego the wifeswapping ring in my first command....and the "What goes on deployment, stays on deployment" atmosphere in my first deploying command. Yes, those moral heteros sure showed me a thing or two.

 

[TheBrain]

I'm not whining about anything stupid. I am merely pointing out that you were in violation of the UCMJ and don't even have the honor to admit that. I in fact have agreed with you that the rules needed to be changed, and I'm glad they have been, but that doesn't change the fact that your honor is impugned by you're lying about it. Your lack of honor in this area leads me to question the honesty of EVERY post you make and further leads me to believe that gays can NOT be seen as a good moral example for anyone.

I hope this was just a dig at Bod because whoa, that's a leap! Bod is dishonest, therefor gays are immoral?

This is probably one of those conversations I shouldn't have jumped into.

They're unhappy because I was willing to forego an "out" life to serve our country for 21 years. It seems to upset their high moral standards.

They probably won't want to hear how I also was willing to forego the wifeswapping ring in my first command....and the "What goes on deployment, stays on deployment" atmosphere in my first deploying command. Yes, those moral heteros sure showed me a thing or two.

Nope, simply sad that you claimed to be a moral person and then proceeded to lie and be dishonest. It's a matter of fact that prior to DADT it was illegal for gays to serve in the military so you're not fooling anyone by denying that you were in violation of the UCMJ.

 

[bodecea]

I hope this was just a dig at Bod because whoa, that's a leap! Bod is dishonest, therefor gays are immoral?

This is probably one of those conversations I shouldn't have jumped into.

They're unhappy because I was willing to forego an "out" life to serve our country for 21 years. It seems to upset their high moral standards.

They probably won't want to hear how I also was willing to forego the wifeswapping ring in my first command....and the "What goes on deployment, stays on deployment" atmosphere in my first deploying command. Yes, those moral heteros sure showed me a thing or two.

Nope, simply sad that you claimed to be a moral person and then proceeded to lie and be dishonest. It's a matter of fact that prior to DADT it was illegal for gays to serve in the military so you're not fooling anyone by denying that you were in violation of the UCMJ.

Perhaps you would like a tissue?

 

[bodecea]

C,mon Allie! Where's my neg rep???......people are counting on you to spread rep around each day so you can come back to me!

 

[TheBrain]

They're unhappy because I was willing to forego an "out" life to serve our country for 21 years. It seems to upset their high moral standards.

They probably won't want to hear how I also was willing to forego the wifeswapping ring in my first command....and the "What goes on deployment, stays on deployment" atmosphere in my first deploying command. Yes, those moral heteros sure showed me a thing or two.

Nope, simply sad that you claimed to be a moral person and then proceeded to lie and be dishonest. It's a matter of fact that prior to DADT it was illegal for gays to serve in the military so you're not fooling anyone by denying that you were in violation of the UCMJ.

Perhaps you would like a tissue?

So you refuse to admit to being a liar, but won't go so far as to deny it.

 

[bodecea]

Nope, simply sad that you claimed to be a moral person and then proceeded to lie and be dishonest. It's a matter of fact that prior to DADT it was illegal for gays to serve in the military so you're not fooling anyone by denying that you were in violation of the UCMJ.

Perhaps you would like a tissue?

So you refuse to admit to being a liar, but won't go so far as to deny it.

I bet, when you were in, you were the guy doing bunk checks and sticking your nose into everyone's social life in the hope of turning someone in. I knew a few like that. They didn't last long. We had a guy in one command, a nav LT who wrote his wife telling about all the guys screwing the groupies in town. He got locked in the hangar locker room for 24 hours....everyone seemed to forget to look for him.

 

[AllieBaba]

C,mon Allie! Where's my neg rep???......people are counting on you to spread rep around each day so you can come back to me!

Good grief, what an idiot.
I've never been hounded for neg rep before.

 

[bodecea]

C,mon Allie! Where's my neg rep???......people are counting on you to spread rep around each day so you can come back to me!

Good grief, what an idiot.
I've never been hounded for neg rep before.

I'm going for the record. And I've got people wanting pos rep from you as you spread it around so you can get back to me.

 

[froggy]

The U.S. NOT founded upon Christianity
Many Christian's who think of America as founded upon Christianity usually present the Declaration of Independence as "proof" of a Christian America. ...
The U.S. NOT founded upon Christianity - Cached - Similar

Our Founding Fathers Were NOT Christians They were men of The Enlightenment, not men of Christianity. .... Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural .... He led the men who turned America from an English colony into a self-governing nation. ...
Thomas Jefferson - John Adams - Benjamin Franklin - Thomas Painefreethought.mbdojo.com/foundingfathers.html - Cached - Similar

Religion of the Founding Fathers of America


Religious Affiliation of U.S. Founding Fathers.
Episcopalian/Anglican 88 54.7%
Presbyterian 30 18.6%
Congregationalist 27 16.8%
Quaker 7 4.3%
Dutch Reformed/German Reformed 6 3.7%
Lutheran 5 3.1%
Catholic 3 1.9%
Huguenot 3 1.9%
Unitarian 3 1.9%
Methodist 2 1.2%
Calvinist 1 0.6%
TOTAL 204

appears the majority were religious.

I don't think you would find any argument over that Froggy...however, where is the evidence that the U.S. was founded upon Christian tenets?


You'd think those Christian tenets would easily be pointed out.

WAS AMERICA FOUNDED as a CHRISTIAN NATION?


Written by: Unknown Posted on: 03/31/2003


Category: Educational


Source: CCN

WAS AMERICA FOUNDED as a CHRISTIAN NATION?

The question of our Biblical origins has been bandied around in intellectual circles for many years, especially now that there is a renewed Christian involvement in the culture of AMerica.

The major hurdle in answering the question is to define terms properly. The concept of a Christian nation is often written off because of misconceptions as to what this means. A Christian nation is not one in which al people in a society are all Christians, just as in an Islamic country, not all people are necessarily Moslems. But in a Christian nation, as our Founders would have defined it, the principles and institutional foundations are Biblically based and the people in general share a Biblical world-view.

Nor should we confuse the term "Christian Nation" with a "Christian state." since the word state refers to a political body or the body politic of the nation, the term "Christian state" would mean one in which the government ruled in religious matters through a state church. This would, of course, preclude religious liberty.

All Laws Are a Codification of a Religious System

Nevertheless, it is imperative to understand that all laws of a nation are the codification of a presuppositional world-view, i.e., the laws of the Untied States have presupposed form the beginning that the Bible was the foundation of our system. Rev. John Wingate Thornton said:

"The highest glory of the American Revolution, said John Quincy Adams, was this: it connected in one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil government with the PRINCIPLES OF CHRISTIANITY."

Rev. Thorton's words condense and paraphrase comments Adams made in a July 4, 1837 oration, which are even more powerful in their full statement:

"Is it not that, in the chain of events, the birthday of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birthday of the Saviour? That it forms a leading event in the progress of the Gospel dispensation?

Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemers's mission? That it laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity and gave to the world the first irrevocable pledge of the fulfillment of the prophecies announced directly from Heaven at the birth of the Saviour and predicted by the greatest of the Hebrew prophets 600 years before?"

Such convictions as these concerning the Christian foundations of our government persisted into comparatively recent times. John W. Whitehead analyzes the Supreme Court's historic understanding of the relationship between Christianity and government in the United States:

"In 1892 the United States Supreme Court made an exhaustive study of the supposed connection between Christianity and the government of the United States.

After researching hundreds volumes of historical documents, the Court asserted 'these references add a volume of unofficial declarations to the mass of organic utterances that this is a religious people...a Christian nation.' Likewise in 1931, Supreme Court Justice George Sutherland reversed the 1892 decision in relation to another case and reiterated that Americans are a 'Christian people' and in 1952 Justice William O. Douglas affirmed 'we are a religious people and our institutions presuppose a Supreme Being.'"

Christianity the Dominant Influence in America

America was under the dominant influence of Biblical Christianity from 1620 until well into the nineteenth century. There are many who, in their desire to lay claim to the great accomplishments of that era, have tried to minimize the Christian influence and take the credit for themselves. But only God deserves the glory for what He did in the founding of this great nation.

People from many denominations came to America in the early years, but the vast majority of them shared a common faith in the basic tenets of Christianity. Whitehead's research reveals that

"when the Constitution was adopted and sent to the States for ratification, the population of America numbered only about 3 1/4 million. The Christian population numbered at least 2 million. James c. Hefley has commented that about 900,00 were Scotch or Scotch-Irish Presbyterians, with another million also holding to basic Calvanistic beliefs."

Christian Nation in Apostasy

It must be admitted that today, although we are still essentially a Christian nation in form (i.e., the Constitutional, legal structure, church affiliation), we are not one in conduct. For the first 250 years of our existence Christian character determined the conduct of self-government in homes, churches, and civil society. But today we have forgotten our heritage and only the skeleton remains. Even so, deep within the American character there lingers a Christian conscience ready to be revived by the spirit of God through awakened american Christian patriots.

It should be noted that by stating that America was a Christian nation we are not saying that we were the "New Israel" or a special race that God must bless. Quite the contrary, God Blessed America because our forefathers built their nation with reliance on Him and His Word, and because God had a Gospel purpose for our nation. If we turn from His purpose we can expect His judgement, perhaps greater judgement than other nations because "to whom much is given, much is required."

Every nation can be a nation under God if it chooses to follow Jesus Christ. Our history is unique in that we were allowed to express the full flower of Christian civilization and government. This fact should give us cause to ponder the price we have paid for the maintenance of our Christian liberty. Will we be the generation that presides over its death?

 

[Gadawg73]

I of course expected nothing better from you. I knew you had no honor before tonight, I just thought I'd give you a last chance. A simple, yes I admit that I was in violation of the UCMJ is all it would have taken.

You're a disgrace to the uniform you wore, and that has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with your sexual choices.

Let me check again....nope, your opinion didn't change my 21 years serving our country. No need to thank me. It was my pleasure to serve.

Yes, I'm aware you have no problem lying to yourself; but every person that reads this thread will now know that you disgraced your uniform by lying about violating the UCMJ.

What an immature joke you are. Grow up. There are over 50,000 gays serving in the military now. Well DUH.
My father was on Saipan June 1944 as a 1st Lt. They were having problems downloading ammunition for his rifle platoons. He went back to the off loading area on the beach where they were checking off each container of ammunition as that was military rules. He ordered the entire ship offloaded and distributed immediately, to hell with the rules of accounting. A Captain came by and outranked him. He ordered my father to sign off on a large load of ammo and get back to his troops. Dad signed off on his troops ammo and sent it all up to the front lines. He then found enough men to download the entire ship and signed off on the entire load. He signed the name Lt. Charles Pocheck, obviously not his name. After the war and at the reunions they had an annual Charles Pocheck award.This was awarded to the Marine that had done the craziest thing to break the UCMJ rule one time or another in serving their country. The tradition goes on to this day. I went with Dad to a few of those reunions in Orlando, Fla. The running joke was "They must still be looking for that guy." Dad died last year, Memorial Day, May 30. My sister has his shirt that he received in the mid 50s from one of those 2nd Marine WWII reunions. They had the name "Lt. Charles Pocheck" on it. Gag gift each year.

 

[TheBrain]

Let me check again....nope, your opinion didn't change my 21 years serving our country. No need to thank me. It was my pleasure to serve.

Yes, I'm aware you have no problem lying to yourself; but every person that reads this thread will now know that you disgraced your uniform by lying about violating the UCMJ.

What an immature joke you are. Grow up. There are over 50,000 gays serving in the military now. Well DUH.
My father was on Saipan June 1944 as a 1st Lt. They were having problems downloading ammunition for his rifle platoons. He went back to the off loading area on the beach where they were checking off each container of ammunition as that was military rules. He ordered the entire ship offloaded and distributed immediately, to hell with the rules of accounting. A Captain came by and outranked him. He ordered my father to sign off on a large load of ammo and get back to his troops. Dad signed off on his troops ammo and sent it all up to the front lines. He then found enough men to download the entire ship and signed off on the entire load. He signed the name Lt. Charles Pocheck, obviously not his name. After the war and at the reunions they had an annual Charles Pocheck award.This was awarded to the Marine that had done the craziest thing to break the UCMJ rule one time or another in serving their country. The tradition goes on to this day. I went with Dad to a few of those reunions in Orlando, Fla. The running joke was "They must still be looking for that guy." Dad died last year, Memorial Day, May 30. My sister has his shirt that he received in the mid 50s from one of those 2nd Marine WWII reunions. They had the name "Lt. Charles Pocheck" on it. Gag gift each year.

A touching but irrelevant story. I am sorry to hear about your father though.

 

[TheBrain]

Perhaps you would like a tissue?

So you refuse to admit to being a liar, but won't go so far as to deny it.

I bet, when you were in, you were the guy doing bunk checks and sticking your nose into everyone's social life in the hope of turning someone in. I knew a few like that. They didn't last long. We had a guy in one command, a nav LT who wrote his wife telling about all the guys screwing the groupies in town. He got locked in the hangar locker room for 24 hours....everyone seemed to forget to look for him.

You would lose your bet, and that doesn't change the fact that YOU brought your morals into this thread, not ME. You are the one who said you could you be just as honest as a straight person, YOU are the person who said you could make as good an example as a straight person. That is the ONLY reason I mention the FACT that you violated the UCMJ on a daily basis. You dishonestly try to make it seem like I am talking about the fact that you are gay. I am not. I am bringing up the fact that you are dishonest. You now want to claim that the ends justify the means and so it is okay that you violated the UCMJ b/c you were honorably discharged , but we both know that is not how it works. It is NEVER acceptable to violate the UCMJ. But lying about the violation is what TRULY makes you dishonorable.

You disgrace every person who has ever served in the military when you don't even have the simple honor to admit that yes you violated the UCMJ.

 

[bodecea]

So you refuse to admit to being a liar, but won't go so far as to deny it.

I bet, when you were in, you were the guy doing bunk checks and sticking your nose into everyone's social life in the hope of turning someone in. I knew a few like that. They didn't last long. We had a guy in one command, a nav LT who wrote his wife telling about all the guys screwing the groupies in town. He got locked in the hangar locker room for 24 hours....everyone seemed to forget to look for him.

You would lose your bet,

Oh....I don't think I would.

and that doesn't change the fact that YOU brought your morals into this thread, not ME. You are the one who said you could you be just as honest as a straight person, YOU are the person who said you could make as good an example as a straight person. That is the ONLY reason I mention the FACT that you violated the UCMJ on a daily basis. You dishonestly try to make it seem like I am talking about the fact that you are gay. I am not. I am bringing up the fact that you are dishonest. You now want to claim that the ends justify the means and so it is okay that you violated the UCMJ b/c you were honorably discharged , but we both know that is not how it works. It is NEVER acceptable to violate the UCMJ. But lying about the violation is what TRULY makes you dishonorable.

You disgrace every person who has ever served in the military when you don't even have the simple honor to admit that yes you violated the UCMJ.

How did I violate the UCMJ....please point out the EXACT article(s) I violated. I look forward to this.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Successful thread derailment by bodumbass.

Losers have a tendency to do that.

They can't win the argument at hand so they change the subject. And oft times lose that argument too, as seems to be the case here.

 

[bodecea]

Successful thread derailment by bodumbass.

Losers have a tendency to do that.

They can't win the argument at hand so they change the subject. And oft times lose that argument too, as seems to be the case here.

You accuse ME of derailing this? You might want to go back and look again, Lonestar_'Logic'.