The Unprecedented Law Giving Gun Makers And Dealers Immunity

[earlycuyler]

[

The fact that you keep trying to exclude every example aside from "advanced industrial democracies" shows that gun ownership isn't the deciding factor. economic development is the deciding factors. The U.S. has a higher homicide rate only because it has lots of immigrants from these undeveloped third world countries. It also has a high rate if illegitimacy, which numerous studies have shown leads to a high crime rate.

No, I exclude third world countries because they are exactly that- third world countries.

It's comparing apples and oranges.

The only countries we should be comparing are advanced industrial democracies. Countries that are at the same level we are at in t development of economy, culture and government.

And compared to them, we are doing VERY BADLY.

Other advanced Democracies limit or ban guns.
Other advanced democracies have welfare states and universal health care.
Other advanced democracies do not run their prisons for profit.

As a result, they have low crime rates, few gun murders and few people in prison.

"Other advanced Democracies limit or ban guns."- yet mass shootings happen in many.


"Other advanced democracies have welfare states and universal health care."- yet they still come to this country to get treated for anything more serious then a hang nail.


"Other advanced democracies do not run their prisons for profit."- maybe not, but money is made for sure. Mexico would love the fact that you approve of there system.

Say Joe. Why does a guy have such a good chance of getting shot in your city with all its gun laws ?

 

[JoeB131]

[

"Other advanced Democracies limit or ban guns."- yet mass shootings happen in many.


But they are rare- that's the point. the UK passed a bunch of new laws after a shooting in 1986, and they've only had one mass shooting incident since.

"Other advanced democracies have welfare states and universal health care."- yet they still come to this country to get treated for anything more serious then a hang nail.

Then why do they live longer, have a lower infant mortality rate, and spend half what we do?


"Other advanced democracies do not run their prisons for profit."- maybe not, but money is made for sure. Mexico would love the fact that you approve of there system.

First, learn the diffrence between "their" and "there", this isn't Toon Hall were half the fuckers are illiterate. Second, not sure why you keep wanting to drag countries like Mexico into this discussion.

Say Joe. Why does a guy have such a good chance of getting shot in your city with all its gun laws ?

i don't know, people who lived in Newton thought living their reduced their chances of being shot compared to New York. Point is, you can be shot at anywhere in the country, because the COUNTRY'S laws are messed up, not any one city.



.

 

[OODA_Loop]

Point is, you can be shot at anywhere in the country, because the COUNTRY'S laws are messed up, not any one city.

Why yes of course. Its the LAWS and the GUNS.

We are just one (maybe two) more laws away from utopia.

No way its the PEOPLE.

Ever.

 

[earlycuyler]

[
And you're from the third world shithole known as Chicago? What's the murder rate in Chicago compared to Savannah GA where Gadawg is?

How about we compare it to Salt Lake City, a city just chock full of evil Mormons?
OH by the way, the Shithole, Right to Work, Possum catching city I live in has a lower murder rate than Chicago too.

Again, none of those cities are as LARGE as Chicago, so of course, Chicago is going to have a higher crime rate. HELLLLLLLOOOOOOOO.

The crime rate and the gun murder rate is too high for the whole country...

 

[GuyPinestra]

Ah, I was wondering how long it would take you to go full racist.

Just for the record.

Spengler- White (although the gal who got him the guns was Asian)
Lanza- White.
Holmes - White.
Loughner- White.
Cho - Asian.

I think you have to go back to the DC SNiper to find a rampage shooter who was black.

No one in this forum is surprised that you would call someone you disagree with a racist. That's what liberals do.

You can't argue with facts. Blacks and Hispanics commit over 90% of all murders in this country. Have fun disputing that.

Actually, since only about 30% of murder investigations result in a conviction, we really don't know who is responsible for the majority of murders.

But you have this..

Table 43 - Crime in the United States 2009

Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter
Total- 9,739
White -4,741
Black -4,801
Native American100
Asian - 97

I'm guessing that for convenience sake they put Hispanics in with whites.

They do that all the time when it suits their motives...

 

[JoeB131]

No one in this forum is surprised that you would call someone you disagree with a racist. That's what liberals do.

You can't argue with facts. Blacks and Hispanics commit over 90% of all murders in this country. Have fun disputing that.

Actually, since only about 30% of murder investigations result in a conviction, we really don't know who is responsible for the majority of murders.

But you have this..

Table 43 - Crime in the United States 2009

Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter
Total- 9,739
White -4,741
Black -4,801
Native American100
Asian - 97

I'm guessing that for convenience sake they put Hispanics in with whites.

They do that all the time when it suits their motives...

You can guess that all day, but the fact is, the government doesn't consider "Hispanic" to be a racial qualification. Even on the Census form, they have one column for race, and another for hispanic origin, background.

All of which is sort of meaningless, since these figures are only for arrests. Only about 30% of murders actually see an arrest and conviction.

 

[Sallow]

By Sergio Munoz

As major media outlets report on gun violence prevention strategies in the wake of the Newtown tragedy, they have ignored a controversial law that shields the firearms industry from being held accountable.

In 2005, former President George W. Bush signed into law the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act - the "No. 1 legislative priority of the National Rifle Association" - which immunized gun makers and dealers from civil lawsuits for the crimes committed with the products they sell, a significant barrier to a comprehensive gun violence prevention strategy. Despite its recent reporting on proposed efforts to prevent another tragedy like the one in Newtown, major newspapers and evening television news have not explained this significant legal immunity, according to a Media Matters search of Nexis.

Faced with an increasing number of successful lawsuits over reckless business practices that funneled guns into the hands of criminals, the 2005 immunity law was a victory for the NRA, which "lobbied lawmakers intensely" to shield gun makers and dealers from personal injury law. As described by Erwin Chemerinsky, a leading constitutional scholar and the Dean of the University of California-Irvine School of Law, by eliminating this route for victims to hold the gun industry accountable in court, the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act was a complete deviation from basic "principles of products liability":

The Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act is also commonly referred to as the "Gun Protection Act." The law dismissed all current claims against gun manufacturers in both federal and state courts and pre-empted future claims. The law could not be clearer in stating its purpose: "To prohibit causes of action against manufacturers, distributors, dealers, and importers of firearms or ammunition products, and their trade associations, for the harm caused solely by the criminal or unlawful misuse of firearm products or ammunition products by others when the product functioned as designed and intended." There are some narrow exceptions for which liability is allowed, such as actions against transferors of firearms who knew the firearm would be used in drug trafficking or a violent crime by a party directly harmed by that conduct.

It is outrageous that a product that exists for no purpose other than to kill has an exemption from state tort liability. Allowing tort liability would force gun manufacturers to pay some of the costs imposed by their products, increase the prices for assault weapons and maybe even cause some manufacturers to stop making them.​

More: Why Isn't The Media Discussing The Unprecedented Law Giving Gun Makers And Dealers Immunity? | Blog | Media Matters for America

Getting rid of this would actually do alot more then "banning" guns would..

Make both the manufacturer and first owner criminally and financially liable for the guns and bullets.

You'd see a great deal more safeguards by both.

 

[Sallow]

No one in this forum is surprised that you would call someone you disagree with a racist. That's what liberals do.

You can't argue with facts. Blacks and Hispanics commit over 90% of all murders in this country. Have fun disputing that.

Actually, since only about 30% of murder investigations result in a conviction, we really don't know who is responsible for the majority of murders.

But you have this..

Table 43 - Crime in the United States 2009

Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter
Total- 9,739
White -4,741
Black -4,801
Native American100
Asian - 97

I'm guessing that for convenience sake they put Hispanics in with whites.

They do that all the time when it suits their motives...

Hispanics are whites.

And blacks.

 

[OODA_Loop]

You'd see a great deal more safeguards by both.

Safeguards like what ?

 

[Sallow]

[


Other countries do not have large populations of blacks and Hispanics. Other countries do not have the high illegitimacy rates that we have. The crime rate and the homicide rate doesn't correlate with the rate of gun ownership, even if you artificially restrict your examination to "advanced industrial democracies."

Ah, I was wondering how long it would take you to go full racist.

Just for the record.

Spengler- White (although the gal who got him the guns was Asian)
Lanza- White.
Holmes - White.
Loughner- White.
Cho - Asian.

I think you have to go back to the DC SNiper to find a rampage shooter who was black.

No one in this forum is surprised that you would call someone you disagree with a racist. That's what liberals do.

You can't argue with facts. Blacks and Hispanics commit over 90% of all murders in this country. Have fun disputing that.

Disputing what?

Bullshit?

Gun deaths are hard to get accurate counts on, by the way, due to gun Lobbyists efforts to get the CDC to stop counting them and the ATF to stop sharing them.

And many of the crimes committed by white folks are papered over.

 

[Sallow]

You'd see a great deal more safeguards by both.

Safeguards like what ?

If you are the original owner?

You'd be less likely to sell your gun to a crazy person if you are criminally and financially responsible for the life cycle of that weapon.

 

[earlycuyler]

Actually, since only about 30% of murder investigations result in a conviction, we really don't know who is responsible for the majority of murders.

But you have this..

Table 43 - Crime in the United States 2009

Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter
Total- 9,739
White -4,741
Black -4,801
Native American100
Asian - 97

I'm guessing that for convenience sake they put Hispanics in with whites.

They do that all the time when it suits their motives...

You can guess that all day, but the fact is, the government doesn't consider "Hispanic" to be a racial qualification. Even on the Census form, they have one column for race, and another for hispanic origin, background.

All of which is sort of meaningless, since these figures are only for arrests. Only about 30% of murders actually see an arrest and conviction.

^Deflection.

 

[OODA_Loop]

You'd see a great deal more safeguards by both.

Safeguards like what ?

If you are the original owner?

You'd be less likely to sell your gun to a crazy person if you are criminally and financially responsible for the life cycle of that weapon.

I am going to sell my gun to a crazy person is pretty big stretch of an assumption, no ?

 

[JoeB131]

I'm guessing that for convenience sake they put Hispanics in with whites.

They do that all the time when it suits their motives...

You can guess that all day, but the fact is, the government doesn't consider "Hispanic" to be a racial qualification. Even on the Census form, they have one column for race, and another for hispanic origin, background.

All of which is sort of meaningless, since these figures are only for arrests. Only about 30% of murders actually see an arrest and conviction.

^Deflection.

I don't think it's deflection. I found a source that shows despite the claims that "90% of murders are committed by blacks and Hispanics", in fact, white people are responsible for about half of them. That we know about, because only about one third of murders actually result in someone getting convicted of them...

 

[bripat9643]

No one in this forum is surprised that you would call someone you disagree with a racist. That's what liberals do.

You can't argue with facts. Blacks and Hispanics commit over 90% of all murders in this country. Have fun disputing that.

Actually, since only about 30% of murder investigations result in a conviction, we really don't know who is responsible for the majority of murders.

But you have this..

Table 43 - Crime in the United States 2009

Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter
Total- 9,739
White -4,741
Black -4,801
Native American100
Asian - 97

I'm guessing that for convenience sake they put Hispanics in with whites.

They do that all the time when it suits their motives...

Yes they do. Here are the figures from the CDC that break out Hispanics separately:

Homicides --- United States, 1999--2007

White, non-Hispanic 5512
Black, non-Hispanic 8746
Hispanic 3466
American Indian/Alaska Native 147
Asian/Pacific Islander 236
----------------------------------------------------------
Total: 18361

So Blacks and Hispanics account for 67% of all Homicides.

 

[GuyPinestra]

Actually, since only about 30% of murder investigations result in a conviction, we really don't know who is responsible for the majority of murders.

But you have this..

Table 43 - Crime in the United States 2009

Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter
Total- 9,739
White -4,741
Black -4,801
Native American100
Asian - 97

I'm guessing that for convenience sake they put Hispanics in with whites.

They do that all the time when it suits their motives...

Yes they do. Here are the figures from the CDC that break out Hispanics separately:

Homicides --- United States, 1999--2007

White, non-Hispanic 5512
Black, non-Hispanic 8746
Hispanic 3466
American Indian/Alaska Native 147
Asian/Pacific Islander 236
----------------------------------------------------------
Total: 18361

So Blacks and Hispanics account for 67% of all Homicides.

Careful, facts make Progressives' heads explode...

 

[earlycuyler]

You can guess that all day, but the fact is, the government doesn't consider "Hispanic" to be a racial qualification. Even on the Census form, they have one column for race, and another for hispanic origin, background.

All of which is sort of meaningless, since these figures are only for arrests. Only about 30% of murders actually see an arrest and conviction.

^Deflection.

I don't think it's deflection. I found a source that shows despite the claims that "90% of murders are committed by blacks and Hispanics", in fact, white people are responsible for about half of them. That we know about, because only about one third of murders actually result in someone getting convicted of them...

Who cares ? Race is unimportant. Scum is scum.

 

[JoeB131]

Actually, since only about 30% of murder investigations result in a conviction, we really don't know who is responsible for the majority of murders.

But you have this..

Table 43 - Crime in the United States 2009

Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter
Total- 9,739
White -4,741
Black -4,801
Native American100
Asian - 97

I'm guessing that for convenience sake they put Hispanics in with whites.

They do that all the time when it suits their motives...

Yes they do. Here are the figures from the CDC that break out Hispanics separately:

Homicides --- United States, 1999--2007

White, non-Hispanic 5512
Black, non-Hispanic 8746
Hispanic 3466
American Indian/Alaska Native 147
Asian/Pacific Islander 236
----------------------------------------------------------
Total: 18361

So Blacks and Hispanics account for 67% of all Homicides.

Well, it wasn't 90% like you guys have been claiming. In fact,Whites are responsible for more murders than Hispanics, if we take your figures at face value.

GUess the real problem is the GUNS.

 

[JoeB131]

^Deflection.

I don't think it's deflection. I found a source that shows despite the claims that "90% of murders are committed by blacks and Hispanics", in fact, white people are responsible for about half of them. That we know about, because only about one third of murders actually result in someone getting convicted of them...

Who cares ? Race is unimportant. Scum is scum.

I agree... if we are just talking about straight up, homicidally inclined people, we want to lock them up no matter what their race is.

But what about the guy who found his wife in bed with another guy, and the gun just happened to be there? A gun just made a bad situation into a double murder.

 

[OODA_Loop]

But what about the guy who found his wife in bed with another guy, and the gun just happened to be there? A gun just made a bad situation into a double murder.

Or a knife ask Ron Goldman and Nicole Simpson.