CDZ The WILL of the people, or the BEST INTERESTS of the people?

[BlackSand]

You should probably re-read my statement without the venom and preconceived notions in the forefront of your brain.

I read your comment and you should try to make a point that is something more than an empty open ended assessment in both cases ...

.

You totally failed but that's ok.

Another empty open ended assessment ... Thanks for more nothing ...

.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Americans sure turned out to dump him. The guy is a menace. Trump has always been a pariah.. not accepted among polite society. He's much too crude and has no clue about manners or noblesse oblige. Its not enough to be a millionaire.. One has to have these other qualities to succeed .. He glorified bad manners and stupidity with his rants against political correctness...

One thing you have to give Trump credit for. Is his performance as a con-man. Able to sell his version of snake oil to some of the people all of the time.

He has turned me off since the 1980s so I really don't get his appeal.

Me 2. Yes, going by the old saying, talent would entail fooling all the people all the time. Apparently, pretty much any old fool can fool some of the people some of the time. Fools like being fooled. I think they respect con men because they get away with shit others only wish they had the balls to attempt. Invariably they no longer get away with it after a while, but that seldom gains much attention.

 

[Mac-7]

You've been brainwashed. You are not dumb, or stupid, or an idiot for believing the Big Lie that the election was stolen, but YOU HAVE BEEN unwittingly Brainwashed.

I appreciate that

And I have the same opinion about liberals such as you and others who post here

For some reason your life took a different turn than mine and you wound up as a biden voter

it makes me want to pull my hair out sometimes but that's how it is

 

[Mac-7]

What happened at the capitol was historic. What happened on the streets of a few cities was not.

Nonsense

what happened in the capital assists your goal of a one party state controlled by socislists

what has been happening on our streets across America is helpful to you also but in a different way

 

[Mac-7]

Trump just didn't know consumers pay his tariffs on China and in the case of our soybean farmers, he gave that whole market to Brazil.

I’m sure trump was well aware of how tariffs work

but he could not reverse 40 years of bad trade policy in just 4 years

you know china did the same thing to Australia by banning their agricultural imports when the Aussie government displeased the CCP

Its called mercantilism

and if you let them china will lead you around by the nose forever

 

[Mac-7]

Right now in DC, its all about The Party.... Not the people, or what is in the best interest of all of their constituents.

True

The washington swamp rats in both parties successfully flushed the outsider from the white house and installed a senile old man who happens to be one of them

Now the Rs and Ds can end the truce and play ball against each other like before

 

[iamwhatiseem]

What happened at the capitol was historic. What happened on the streets of a few cities was not.

Nonsense

what happened in the capital assists your goal of a one party state controlled by socislists

what has been happening on our streets across America is helpful to you also but in a different way

The reason what happened at the capitol is VERY historic, but not the reasons the left believe.
What was historic, and ignored - is where were the capitol police???
There are 2,300 capitol police.
And on a day Congress was in session, and had concrete knowledge by not one, not two, but THREE different law enforcement agencies of a possible organized clash - there were fewer officers on duty than a day Congress was NOT in session.
WHY???
Who made that happen???

 

[Mac-7]

He's citing Trump's trade deal with China as a good thing.

Its important to bring the rabid trump haters attention to specifics once in a while

never trumpers spend most of their time attacking trump personally

so much so that they fail to understand the nature of trumps support

you hate trump as muslims hate hindu‘s

and that’s the basis of the often heard lib lie that trump followers are cultists when they are not

Trump was the outsider that many libs always said they wanted but were too caught up in emotion to recognize

 

[Mac-7]

why is it you have to simplify a broader discussion on politics down to the same old partisan bullshit?

Because in this case Mac1958 practices partisan bullshit

He’s the little old lady who marches for prohibition, but keeps a good supply of sherry in the kitchen

 

[Grumblenuts]

You should probably re-read my statement without the venom and preconceived notions in the forefront of your brain.

I read your comment and you should try to make a point that is something more than an empty open ended assessment in both cases ...

.

You totally failed but that's ok.

Actually, some is none too shabby considering the source.

It's not the government's job to do the work of the People, it's the governments job to do the work of the Government.

Military, Interstate Commerce, International Relations, Emergency Preparedness and Infrastructure ...
But what our government has turned into is a bunch of Nanny State Fascists, and you nit-wits keep begging to grant them more powers.

It appeals to people too lazy or stupid to think for themselves, or that want to make someone else do something they don't want to do ...
Which is the exact opposite of Freedom and Liberty, and there isn't anything "Liberal" about it.

I submit that "Freedom and Liberty" in such context is usually short for "I got mine, fuck you." With that in mind, the rest kind of holds together. We do live in a republic, not a pure democracy. That was deliberate. The Founders didn't trust "The People" any more than they did British rule. They sure did want "Freedom and Liberty" but only as applied to white men and women of property. And little has changed for many in that regard since. For those with only glancing exposure to crushing poverty and discrimination none tends to exist.

 

[Mac-7]

He was voted out, so the system worked. I can live with that.

I don't know what to tell those of you who think he won.

Hopefully now we'll get some intelligent, reasoned responses to my clear question.

But why does it have to be one extreme or the other?
You are to be judged by one of two rules:
1) Trump won the election, rampant cheating everywhere.
2) Trump lost, Biden wins fair and square. There was no cheating.

But, as usual, the truth is somewhere in between.
Indeed Trump lost. He did. But there was a LOT of cheating. Enough cheating that it overturned the results? No, I don't think so. Not even close.
But should we just ignore the testimonials, video evidence and other physical evidence of cheating that did occur?
Just pretend it didn't happen?

We should always work to maximize the integrity of the vote. Always.

We should always work to reasonably maximize access to the vote. Always.

But that would require cooperation and collaboration. We no longer have those skills, so I don't know what to tell you.

/

So in So in other words... it isn't a topic you like and want to move on.
"Reasonable access to the vote" - we have had that for decades.
Democrats don't want reasonable access....they want to make it so easy to vote, that you literally have to put effort into not voting.
They don't want any kind of verification. Any.

So once again.... 2 rules:
1) Reasonable verification of identity = RACIST!!!! BLOCKING THE VOTE!!!
2) Reasonable access = no verification of any kind, and have buses running through the streets to take people to vote. Who could possibly believe there would be cheating??

other words... it isn't a topic you like and want to move on.
"Reasonable access to the vote" - we have had that for decades.
Democrats don't want reasonable access....they want to make it so easy to vote, that you literally have to put effort into not voting.
They don't want any kind of verification. Any.

So once again.... 2 rules:
1) Reasonable verification of identity = RACIST!!!! BLOCKING THE VOTE!!!
2) Reasonable access = no verification of any kind, and have buses running through the streets to take people to vote. Who could possibly believe there would be cheating??

This is a great post by iamwhatiseem

I wonder if mac1958 realizes how much he’s being exposed?

 

[dblack]

Should an elected representative legislate according to what they perceive to be the will of their constituents, or according to what they perceive to be the best interests of their constituents? Obviously the two are not always going to be congruent.

Neither. Congress should legislate to protect our freedom to decide for ourselves what is in our best interests and pursue it as we see fit.

How would you apply that to seat belts or child labor or dumping chemicals in a river?

I wouldn't apply it to seat belts. Laws against child abuse are protecting freedom (of the children). And the government has a clear responsibility to manage the commons (ie protect public property from harm).

 

[iamwhatiseem]

He was voted out, so the system worked. I can live with that.

I don't know what to tell those of you who think he won.

Hopefully now we'll get some intelligent, reasoned responses to my clear question.

But why does it have to be one extreme or the other?
You are to be judged by one of two rules:
1) Trump won the election, rampant cheating everywhere.
2) Trump lost, Biden wins fair and square. There was no cheating.

But, as usual, the truth is somewhere in between.
Indeed Trump lost. He did. But there was a LOT of cheating. Enough cheating that it overturned the results? No, I don't think so. Not even close.
But should we just ignore the testimonials, video evidence and other physical evidence of cheating that did occur?
Just pretend it didn't happen?

We should always work to maximize the integrity of the vote. Always.

We should always work to reasonably maximize access to the vote. Always.

But that would require cooperation and collaboration. We no longer have those skills, so I don't know what to tell you.

/

So in So in other words... it isn't a topic you like and want to move on.
"Reasonable access to the vote" - we have had that for decades.
Democrats don't want reasonable access....they want to make it so easy to vote, that you literally have to put effort into not voting.
They don't want any kind of verification. Any.

So once again.... 2 rules:
1) Reasonable verification of identity = RACIST!!!! BLOCKING THE VOTE!!!
2) Reasonable access = no verification of any kind, and have buses running through the streets to take people to vote. Who could possibly believe there would be cheating??

other words... it isn't a topic you like and want to move on.
"Reasonable access to the vote" - we have had that for decades.
Democrats don't want reasonable access....they want to make it so easy to vote, that you literally have to put effort into not voting.
They don't want any kind of verification. Any.

So once again.... 2 rules:
1) Reasonable verification of identity = RACIST!!!! BLOCKING THE VOTE!!!
2) Reasonable access = no verification of any kind, and have buses running through the streets to take people to vote. Who could possibly believe there would be cheating??

This is a great post by iamwhatiseem

I wonder if mac1958 realizes how much he’s being exposed?

He does not.
Perhaps in a few years when TDS eventually wears off, he will return to a position of reason.
He use to be perfectly reasonable. Then Trump got elected, and for reasons I don't know... it sent him into a rabbit hole of wild speculation, emotional outburst and, of course, anyone who doesn't agree is possessed and brain washed.

 

[Blues Man]

why is it you have to simplify a broader discussion on politics down to the same old partisan bullshit?

Because in this case Mac1958 practices partisan bullshit

He’s the little old lady who marches for prohibition, but keeps a good supply of sherry in the kitchen

There was no mention of party in the OP was there?

 

[Mac-7]

There was no mention of party in the OP was there?

He does not have to

Mac1958 is a proud trump hater from way back

Now that trump is gone mac1958 wants to bury the hatchet and expects republicans to defy the will of their voters and support his man joe biden

but he never wanted dems to defy the rabid trump haters in their district and support trump on any issue

 

[Blues Man]

There was no mention of party in the OP was there?

He does not have to

Mac1958 is a proud trump hater from way back

Now that trump is gone mac1958 wants to bury the hatchet and expects republicans to defy the will of their voters and support his man joe biden

but he never wanted dems to defy the rabid trump haters in their district and support trump on any issue

Whatever.

I guess I can take the OP at face value and not attach all kinds of baggage to it.

 

[BlackSand]

I submit that "Freedom and Liberty" in such context is usually short for "I got mine, fuck you." With that in mind, the rest kind of holds together. We do live in a republic, not a pure democracy. That was deliberate. The Founders didn't trust "The People" any more than they did British rule. They sure did want "Freedom and Liberty" but only as applied to white men and women of property. And little has changed for many in that regard since. For those with only glancing exposure to crushing poverty and discrimination none tends to exist.

It's actually like ...
"It's none of your business, and you cannot better represent the will of the people by deciding something they should be able to decide for themselves"

.

 

[Mac1958]

There was no mention of party in the OP was there?

He does not have to

Mac1958 is a proud trump hater from way back

Now that trump is gone mac1958 wants to bury the hatchet and expects republicans to defy the will of their voters and support his man joe biden

but he never wanted dems to defy the rabid trump haters in their district and support trump on any issue

Whatever.

I guess I can take the OP at face value and not attach all kinds of baggage to it.

.... which is was the way it was intended. I wasn't referring to the Presidency, which is much larger-scale than I was thinking.

Unfortunately, there is a paranoia and a defensiveness attached to our politics that make some convinced that they're under constant attack.

 

[Blues Man]

And just for the record, I think politicians act in their own best interests first, then their big money donors and their constituents' best interests are at the bottom of the list

 

[Mac-7]

I guess I can take the OP at face value and not attach all kinds of baggage to it.

Good for you

coming from rabid trump haters like Mac1958 the calls for Kumbaya and bipartisan cooperation are 4 years too late