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Flacaltenn you are going to try looking for fault in anything that does conclude what whites want to conclude.
How is it you can possibly make this even racial?? If the topic was market investing -- I believe you could make THAT racial also if you didn't want to defend your assertions...
So the topic is just another poll.. And SOMEHOW -- this is racial because I QUOTE the methodology they used and point out this poll is NOT representative of Black America as a whole?>???
AND this organization ADMITS THAT multiple times in their first couple pages and this make ME A racist???
Also in their methodology section there's no map of what parts of the Black nation were covered. And there's this troubling bit.
One of the most striking differences between Black Census respondents and the Black population as a whole is the degree of engagement with elections and the electoral process. In 2018, 85.6 percent of Black Census respondents were registered to vote, 20.3 percentage points higher than for the population of Black adults nationally.8 In the 2016 election, 73.5 percent of the Black Census respondents voted, 17.6 percentage points higher than for Black adults nationally.9 The next section explores electoral engagement among Black
When you come right out and STATE that this poll does not represent the Black Population as a whole, it's like putting ketchup on a Filet Mignon... AND -- it's not really a scientifically or mathemathically accurate picture of "what Black people think"...
Since 2/3 of their correspondents replied on-line, that means vetting probably wasn't that good as with ALL internet polling, and that it favors Blacks who are super politically active over the majority that ain't....
BUT MAYBE -- all they are interested in is the folks who are active dononrs and volunteers BECAUSE their mission is ORGANIZING communities, not polling...
It's like those phony as shit polls I get from the DNC and RNC that really only want my time and money... NOT my opinions..
Can anyone say RACIST...WHITE...DOUBLE....STANDARD?
Dear IM2 and flacaltenn
this could go back and forth or in circles on areas of disagreement and conflict
I'm more interested in what this thread would produce
where points actually INTERSECT and connect on
directions toward SOLUTIONS that won't be in any conflict
REAL solutions won't trigger:
Black vs White conflicts
Conservative vs. other group conflicts
Male/Male or Male/Female conflicts
Racism, Individualism or other False Equivalency issues
Can we focus on the key points that are so critical
to all views they transcend all the above ^
What are the best points in IM2 posts
that we gain and make the most of.
ie, Minus anything off target that distracts from those.
Emily anything we blacks suggest will trigger white/black conflicts because whites like flacaltenn thinks he knows better what blacks need than black people do. I cannot tell you what it's like to be pregnant no matter how many children I have seen being born, books I have read or opinions from women I have heard. But flacaltenn thinks he knows what blacks need to do because he listens and reads stuff from black conservative elites.
IM2 you can call it White vs. Black, or it could be male vs. male
For all I know it was "FLACALTENN" (the individual) reading through that and finding a POLITICAL BIAS and you (as IM2) reading through his posts and finding
a WHITE/BLACK RACIAL bias.
NOTE: With your thread set up under your rules,
and this forum set up under rules not to argue with Mods about Moderation,
PLUS natural laws that neither you or I as free users are going to
have equal weight as the people working to provide free forum usage to others,
there's THAT dynamic going on as well.
Regardless of all those overlapping biases and dynamics,
I still see the point that the polls focus on "politically active" input
and this isn't perfectly representative if it leaves out other voices
that were eligible to be included.
You see that as "white justification to discount or discredit"
I see it as a specific point that doesn't NEGATE the value of the post.
Nothing is ever going to be PERFECTLY representative of the whole.
As long as you get out of it what you feel represents YOU,
I trust YOU to tell me that, regardless how imperfect or perfect the
material maybe. YOU tell me what YOU get out of it.
And others do the same. I listen to THEM as it applies to THEM.
I listen to YOU as it applies to YOU. So there is no conflict,
you BOTH tell me what represents YOU. Even if you get
totally different takes from the same material. It's about YOU
not picking you or the material apart, unless it helps me understand YOU.
Also in their methodology section there's no map of what parts of the Black nation were covered. And there's this troubling bit.
One of the most striking differences between Black Census respondents and the Black population as a whole is the degree of engagement with elections and the electoral process. In 2018, 85.6 percent of Black Census respondents were registered to vote, 20.3 percentage points higher than for the population of Black adults nationally.8 In the 2016 election, 73.5 percent of the Black Census respondents voted, 17.6 percentage points higher than for Black adults nationally.9 The next section explores electoral engagement among Black
When you come right out and STATE that this poll does not represent the Black Population as a whole, it's like putting ketchup on a Filet Mignon... AND -- it's not really a scientifically or mathemathically accurate picture of "what Black people think"...
Since 2/3 of their correspondents replied on-line, that means vetting probably wasn't that good as with ALL internet polling, and that it favors Blacks who are super politically active over the majority that ain't....
BUT MAYBE -- all they are interested in is the folks who are active dononrs and volunteers BECAUSE their mission is ORGANIZING communities, not polling...
It's like those phony as shit polls I get from the DNC and RNC that really only want my time and money... NOT my opinions..
Can anyone say RACIST...WHITE...DOUBLE....STANDARD?
Dear IM2 and flacaltenn
this could go back and forth or in circles on areas of disagreement and conflict
I'm more interested in what this thread would produce
where points actually INTERSECT and connect on
directions toward SOLUTIONS that won't be in any conflict
REAL solutions won't trigger:
Black vs White conflicts
Conservative vs. other group conflicts
Male/Male or Male/Female conflicts
Racism, Individualism or other False Equivalency issues
Can we focus on the key points that are so critical
to all views they transcend all the above ^
What are the best points in IM2 posts
that we gain and make the most of.
ie, Minus anything off target that distracts from those.
Emily anything we blacks suggest will trigger white/black conflicts because whites like flacaltenn thinks he knows better what blacks need than black people do. I cannot tell you what it's like to be pregnant no matter how many children I have seen being born, books I have read or opinions from women I have heard. But flacaltenn thinks he knows what blacks need to do because he listens and reads stuff from black conservative elites.
IM2 you can call it White vs. Black, or it could be male vs. male
For all I know it was "FLACALTENN" (the individual) reading through that and finding a POLITICAL BIAS and you (as IM2) reading through his posts and finding
a WHITE/BLACK RACIAL bias.
NOTE: With your thread set up under your rules,
and this forum set up under rules not to argue with Mods about Moderation,
PLUS natural laws that neither you or I as free users are going to
have equal weight as the people working to provide free forum usage to others,
there's THAT dynamic going on as well.
Regardless of all those overlapping biases and dynamics,
I still see the point that the polls focus on "politically active" input
and this isn't perfectly representative if it leaves out other voices
that were eligible to be included.
You see that as "white justification to discount or discredit"
I see it as a specific point that doesn't NEGATE the value of the post.
Nothing is ever going to be PERFECTLY representative of the whole.
As long as you get out of it what you feel represents YOU,
I trust YOU to tell me that, regardless how imperfect or perfect the
material maybe. YOU tell me what YOU get out of it.
And others do the same. I listen to THEM as it applies to THEM.
I listen to YOU as it applies to YOU. So there is no conflict,
you BOTH tell me what represents YOU. Even if you get
totally different takes from the same material. It's about YOU
not picking you or the material apart, unless it helps me understand YOU.
Emily try that weak individualism stuff elsewhere.
“ I posit that the Discourse of Individualism functions to: deny the significance of race and the advantages of being white; hide the accumulation of wealth over generations; deny social and historical context; prevent a macro analysis of the institutional and structural dimensions of social life; deny collective socialization and the power of dominant culture (media, education, religion, etc.) to shape our perspectives and ideology; function as neo-colorblindness and reproduce the myth of meritocracy; and make collective action difficult. Further, being viewed as an individual is a privilege only available to the dominant group. I explicate each of these discursive effects and argue that while we may be considered individuals in general, white insistence on Individualism in discussions of racism in particular functions to obscure and maintain racism.”
Robin DeAngelo
This explanation speaks for itself. Individualism discounts the effects of history, which cannot be ignored in any discussion of race. It denies the social structure created by racism. It refuses to accept that a dominant white culture was created due to the racist laws and policies denying people of color AS A GROUP. It removes the individual responsibility whites have to end racism in their community because they are an individual and did not do it so find those who did is the attitude you get from whites who use individualism as a denial.
Even more specifically, those who argue about individualism would have a case if racism was practiced in a way that harmed a few individuals while being done by just a few people. Racism is a macro level problem. Individualism is a micro level philosophy.
Flacaltenn you are going to try looking for fault in anything that does conclude what whites want to conclude.
How is it you can possibly make this even racial?? If the topic was market investing -- I believe you could make THAT racial also if you didn't want to defend your assertions...
So the topic is just another poll.. And SOMEHOW -- this is racial because I QUOTE the methodology they used and point out this poll is NOT representative of Black America as a whole?>???
AND this organization ADMITS THAT multiple times in their first couple pages and this make ME A racist???
Relax flacaltenn
IM2 statement reflects on HIM not YOU
(even when he states how he sees you, that's still his way of
framing or perceiving where the conflicts are projecting from)
Your own words reflect on YOU.
That way you have total control over your own representation.
Flacaltenn you are going to try looking for fault in anything that does conclude what whites want to conclude.
How is it you can possibly make this even racial?? If the topic was market investing -- I believe you could make THAT racial also if you didn't want to defend your assertions...
So the topic is just another poll.. And SOMEHOW -- this is racial because I QUOTE the methodology they used and point out this poll is NOT representative of Black America as a whole?>???
AND this organization ADMITS THAT multiple times in their first couple pages and this make ME A racist???
Relax flacaltenn
IM2 statement reflects on HIM not YOU
(even when he states how he sees you, that's still his way of
framing or perceiving where the conflicts are projecting from)
Your own words reflect on YOU.
That way you have total control over your own representation.
My statements reflect a societal truth people like you and flacaltenn want to avoid. You have stayed off topic and now you have forced me to do what I didn't want to. This thread is not about individualism. It is about concerns blacks have as a group about things which affect us as a group. Both you and flacaltenn have refused to discuss the issues bought up by this census.
Flacaltenn has only criticized the methodology by charry picking things in order to derail the conversation and you have consistently tried introducing a bogus discourse instead of discussing the issues. Your comments reflect on you. We are not going to look at issues that affect millions of people by talking about individuals. And I am not going to address an attitude held here by the majority of whites as just a singularly individual thing.
Now we can talk about the issues or I can use the means USMB provides to help keep threads on topic..
My statements reflect a societal truth
Can anyone say RACIST...WHITE...DOUBLE....STANDARD?
Dear IM2 and flacaltenn
this could go back and forth or in circles on areas of disagreement and conflict
I'm more interested in what this thread would produce
where points actually INTERSECT and connect on
directions toward SOLUTIONS that won't be in any conflict
REAL solutions won't trigger:
Black vs White conflicts
Conservative vs. other group conflicts
Male/Male or Male/Female conflicts
Racism, Individualism or other False Equivalency issues
Can we focus on the key points that are so critical
to all views they transcend all the above ^
What are the best points in IM2 posts
that we gain and make the most of.
ie, Minus anything off target that distracts from those.
Emily anything we blacks suggest will trigger white/black conflicts because whites like flacaltenn thinks he knows better what blacks need than black people do. I cannot tell you what it's like to be pregnant no matter how many children I have seen being born, books I have read or opinions from women I have heard. But flacaltenn thinks he knows what blacks need to do because he listens and reads stuff from black conservative elites.
IM2 you can call it White vs. Black, or it could be male vs. male
For all I know it was "FLACALTENN" (the individual) reading through that and finding a POLITICAL BIAS and you (as IM2) reading through his posts and finding
a WHITE/BLACK RACIAL bias.
NOTE: With your thread set up under your rules,
and this forum set up under rules not to argue with Mods about Moderation,
PLUS natural laws that neither you or I as free users are going to
have equal weight as the people working to provide free forum usage to others,
there's THAT dynamic going on as well.
Regardless of all those overlapping biases and dynamics,
I still see the point that the polls focus on "politically active" input
and this isn't perfectly representative if it leaves out other voices
that were eligible to be included.
You see that as "white justification to discount or discredit"
I see it as a specific point that doesn't NEGATE the value of the post.
Nothing is ever going to be PERFECTLY representative of the whole.
As long as you get out of it what you feel represents YOU,
I trust YOU to tell me that, regardless how imperfect or perfect the
material maybe. YOU tell me what YOU get out of it.
And others do the same. I listen to THEM as it applies to THEM.
I listen to YOU as it applies to YOU. So there is no conflict,
you BOTH tell me what represents YOU. Even if you get
totally different takes from the same material. It's about YOU
not picking you or the material apart, unless it helps me understand YOU.
Emily try that weak individualism stuff elsewhere.
“ I posit that the Discourse of Individualism functions to: deny the significance of race and the advantages of being white; hide the accumulation of wealth over generations; deny social and historical context; prevent a macro analysis of the institutional and structural dimensions of social life; deny collective socialization and the power of dominant culture (media, education, religion, etc.) to shape our perspectives and ideology; function as neo-colorblindness and reproduce the myth of meritocracy; and make collective action difficult. Further, being viewed as an individual is a privilege only available to the dominant group. I explicate each of these discursive effects and argue that while we may be considered individuals in general, white insistence on Individualism in discussions of racism in particular functions to obscure and maintain racism.”
Robin DeAngelo
This explanation speaks for itself. Individualism discounts the effects of history, which cannot be ignored in any discussion of race. It denies the social structure created by racism. It refuses to accept that a dominant white culture was created due to the racist laws and policies denying people of color AS A GROUP. It removes the individual responsibility whites have to end racism in their community because they are an individual and did not do it so find those who did is the attitude you get from whites who use individualism as a denial.
Even more specifically, those who argue about individualism would have a case if racism was practiced in a way that harmed a few individuals while being done by just a few people. Racism is a macro level problem. Individualism is a micro level philosophy.
Dear IM2
I am not talking about "Individualism" collectively which makes no sense.
of course it contradicts itself.
I am talking about understanding EACH PERSON individually.
I agree with you that "individualism" as a "collective practice"
is going to fail. That is clearly contradictory.
It brings to mind the ridiculous
satirical scene in Monty Python with the CROWD CHANTING LIKE BORG:
"WE ARE ALL INDIVIDUALS!"
I get what you are saying IM2
And that is NOT what I am saying.
Flacaltenn you are going to try looking for fault in anything that does conclude what whites want to conclude.
How is it you can possibly make this even racial?? If the topic was market investing -- I believe you could make THAT racial also if you didn't want to defend your assertions...
So the topic is just another poll.. And SOMEHOW -- this is racial because I QUOTE the methodology they used and point out this poll is NOT representative of Black America as a whole?>???
AND this organization ADMITS THAT multiple times in their first couple pages and this make ME A racist???
Relax flacaltenn
IM2 statement reflects on HIM not YOU
(even when he states how he sees you, that's still his way of
framing or perceiving where the conflicts are projecting from)
Your own words reflect on YOU.
That way you have total control over your own representation.
My statements reflect a societal truth people like you and flacaltenn want to avoid. You have stayed off topic and now you have forced me to do what I didn't want to. This thread is not about individualism. It is about concerns blacks have as a group about things which affect us as a group. Both you and flacaltenn have refused to discuss the issues bought up by this census.
Flacaltenn has only criticized the methodology by charry picking things in order to derail the conversation and you have consistently tried introducing a bogus discourse instead of discussing the issues. Your comments reflect on you. We are not going to look at issues that affect millions of people by talking about individuals. And I am not going to address an attitude held here by the majority of whites as just a singularly individual thing.
Now we can talk about the issues or I can use the means USMB provides to help keep threads on topic..
But we CAN'T DISCUSS THE ISSUES BECAUSE YOU
SAID ONLY BLACKS COULD.
All we can do is discuss "OUR PERCEPTIONS" of the posts
and information, NOT THE OTHER CONTENT THAT IS NOT FROM US.
to follow your instructions IM2
we can't go around trying to "represent" what you only authorize BLACKS LIKE YOU to represent.
So we are naturally limited to just
Me (Emily) representing me (Emily)
Flacaltenn representing Flacaltenn
Because we are not YOU, we are NOT the people giving input into those materials and resources, we are just Emily and Flacaltenn who are
responding to posts on USMB as best we can given the restrictions
you put on how you frame these posts.
Sorry if we cannot meet your expectations.
As I said, nothing is perfect. Each person is going
to have different biases, as a unique human being.
Dear IM2 and flacaltenn
this could go back and forth or in circles on areas of disagreement and conflict
I'm more interested in what this thread would produce
where points actually INTERSECT and connect on
directions toward SOLUTIONS that won't be in any conflict
REAL solutions won't trigger:
Black vs White conflicts
Conservative vs. other group conflicts
Male/Male or Male/Female conflicts
Racism, Individualism or other False Equivalency issues
Can we focus on the key points that are so critical
to all views they transcend all the above ^
What are the best points in IM2 posts
that we gain and make the most of.
ie, Minus anything off target that distracts from those.
Emily anything we blacks suggest will trigger white/black conflicts because whites like flacaltenn thinks he knows better what blacks need than black people do. I cannot tell you what it's like to be pregnant no matter how many children I have seen being born, books I have read or opinions from women I have heard. But flacaltenn thinks he knows what blacks need to do because he listens and reads stuff from black conservative elites.
IM2 you can call it White vs. Black, or it could be male vs. male
For all I know it was "FLACALTENN" (the individual) reading through that and finding a POLITICAL BIAS and you (as IM2) reading through his posts and finding
a WHITE/BLACK RACIAL bias.
NOTE: With your thread set up under your rules,
and this forum set up under rules not to argue with Mods about Moderation,
PLUS natural laws that neither you or I as free users are going to
have equal weight as the people working to provide free forum usage to others,
there's THAT dynamic going on as well.
Regardless of all those overlapping biases and dynamics,
I still see the point that the polls focus on "politically active" input
and this isn't perfectly representative if it leaves out other voices
that were eligible to be included.
You see that as "white justification to discount or discredit"
I see it as a specific point that doesn't NEGATE the value of the post.
Nothing is ever going to be PERFECTLY representative of the whole.
As long as you get out of it what you feel represents YOU,
I trust YOU to tell me that, regardless how imperfect or perfect the
material maybe. YOU tell me what YOU get out of it.
And others do the same. I listen to THEM as it applies to THEM.
I listen to YOU as it applies to YOU. So there is no conflict,
you BOTH tell me what represents YOU. Even if you get
totally different takes from the same material. It's about YOU
not picking you or the material apart, unless it helps me understand YOU.
Emily try that weak individualism stuff elsewhere.
“ I posit that the Discourse of Individualism functions to: deny the significance of race and the advantages of being white; hide the accumulation of wealth over generations; deny social and historical context; prevent a macro analysis of the institutional and structural dimensions of social life; deny collective socialization and the power of dominant culture (media, education, religion, etc.) to shape our perspectives and ideology; function as neo-colorblindness and reproduce the myth of meritocracy; and make collective action difficult. Further, being viewed as an individual is a privilege only available to the dominant group. I explicate each of these discursive effects and argue that while we may be considered individuals in general, white insistence on Individualism in discussions of racism in particular functions to obscure and maintain racism.”
Robin DeAngelo
This explanation speaks for itself. Individualism discounts the effects of history, which cannot be ignored in any discussion of race. It denies the social structure created by racism. It refuses to accept that a dominant white culture was created due to the racist laws and policies denying people of color AS A GROUP. It removes the individual responsibility whites have to end racism in their community because they are an individual and did not do it so find those who did is the attitude you get from whites who use individualism as a denial.
Even more specifically, those who argue about individualism would have a case if racism was practiced in a way that harmed a few individuals while being done by just a few people. Racism is a macro level problem. Individualism is a micro level philosophy.
Dear IM2
I am not talking about "Individualism" collectively which makes no sense.
of course it contradicts itself.
I am talking about understanding EACH PERSON individually.
I agree with you that "individualism" as a "collective practice"
is going to fail. That is clearly contradictory.
It brings to mind the ridiculous
satirical scene in Monty Python with the CROWD CHANTING LIKE BORG:
"WE ARE ALL INDIVIDUALS!"
I get what you are saying IM2
And that is NOT what I am saying.
Fair enough. So realize I understand flacaltenn. He is the one who told me that blacks only live in the black community to show their blackness. Flacaltenn is the person that said the best solution for blacks was to move out of black communities and into rural all white towns. Flacaltenn never shows up in threads by whites talking about what blacks need to do. He is being looked at as an individual. A white racist individual who thinks he can tell blacks what blacks need to do.
My statements reflect a societal truth
IM2 your statements reflect YOU and YOUR perception of others and societal truths. I GET that. That's what your whole disclaimer is about.
Just because YOU perceive things about flacaltenn and me
doesn't mean that's where we are coming from. It STILL makes it
TRUE in your world which you already said is different because you are BLACK and only you can represent this reality that others cannot (especially not whites or conservatives). That doesn't mean I don't care about it
just because I can't represent it for you.
I understand where you are getting that nobody else can
represent and tell you your viewpoints for you. Of course not.
But where are you getting that "I don't care for your truth" just because
I can't represent or dictate your truth for you. Those two are not synonymous.
Flacaltenn you are going to try looking for fault in anything that does conclude what whites want to conclude.
How is it you can possibly make this even racial?? If the topic was market investing -- I believe you could make THAT racial also if you didn't want to defend your assertions...
So the topic is just another poll.. And SOMEHOW -- this is racial because I QUOTE the methodology they used and point out this poll is NOT representative of Black America as a whole?>???
AND this organization ADMITS THAT multiple times in their first couple pages and this make ME A racist???
Relax flacaltenn
IM2 statement reflects on HIM not YOU
(even when he states how he sees you, that's still his way of
framing or perceiving where the conflicts are projecting from)
Your own words reflect on YOU.
That way you have total control over your own representation.
My statements reflect a societal truth people like you and flacaltenn want to avoid. You have stayed off topic and now you have forced me to do what I didn't want to. This thread is not about individualism. It is about concerns blacks have as a group about things which affect us as a group. Both you and flacaltenn have refused to discuss the issues bought up by this census.
Flacaltenn has only criticized the methodology by charry picking things in order to derail the conversation and you have consistently tried introducing a bogus discourse instead of discussing the issues. Your comments reflect on you. We are not going to look at issues that affect millions of people by talking about individuals. And I am not going to address an attitude held here by the majority of whites as just a singularly individual thing.
Now we can talk about the issues or I can use the means USMB provides to help keep threads on topic..
But we CAN'T DISCUSS THE ISSUES BECAUSE YOU
SAID ONLY BLACKS COULD.
All we can do is discuss "OUR PERCEPTIONS" of the posts
and information, NOT THE OTHER CONTENT THAT IS NOT FROM US.
to follow your instructions IM2
we can't go around trying to "represent" what you only authorize BLACKS LIKE YOU to represent.
So we are naturally limited to just
Me (Emily) representing me (Emily)
Flacaltenn representing Flacaltenn
Because we are not YOU, we are NOT the people giving input into those materials and resources, we are just Emily and Flacaltenn who are
responding to posts on USMB as best we can given the restrictions
you put on how you frame these posts.
Sorry if we cannot meet your expectations.
As I said, nothing is perfect. Each person is going
to have different biases, as a unique human being.
I have said no such thing. I have said we will discuss black issues as blacks see these issues and not how whites want us to see these issues. And that's how I would like to discuss them.
My statements reflect a societal truth
IM2 your statements reflect YOU and YOUR perception of others and societal truths. I GET that. That's what your whole disclaimer is about.
Just because YOU perceive things about flacaltenn and me
doesn't mean that's where we are coming from. It STILL makes it
TRUE in your world which you already said is different because you are BLACK and only you can represent this reality that others cannot (especially not whites or conservatives). That doesn't mean I don't care about it
just because I can't represent it for you.
I understand where you are getting that nobody else can
represent and tell you your viewpoints for you. Of course not.
But where are you getting that "I don't care for your truth" just because
I can't represent or dictate your truth for you. Those two are not synonymous.
I'm just as old as you are Emily. I don't have to perceive anything. And I am not talking about "my reality." There is no my truth or your truth. There is only the truth.
And the truth for the black community is what is going to be presented here not only from the black census but from a wide variety of sources. This is just the start.
I posted a link to the state of black America and flacaltenn tried dissing that too. There are some things whites need to learn Emily. That's what this thread is about. And the first thing whites here need to learn are the things we are concerned about.
You see Emily, I've been a member here 4 years. I have over 23,000 posts. This means I have held enough conversations to know that there is a disconnect between what most of these whites here think about us compared to how we actually live.
It's time that ended. And it is not going to end by continuing to allow whites to keep posting inaccurate opinions about black people. Nor will it end by discussing these inaccurate opinions instead of having them examine exactly how black things.see
My statements reflect a societal truth
IM2 your statements reflect YOU and YOUR perception of others and societal truths. I GET that. That's what your whole disclaimer is about.
Just because YOU perceive things about flacaltenn and me
doesn't mean that's where we are coming from. It STILL makes it
TRUE in your world which you already said is different because you are BLACK and only you can represent this reality that others cannot (especially not whites or conservatives). That doesn't mean I don't care about it
just because I can't represent it for you.
I understand where you are getting that nobody else can
represent and tell you your viewpoints for you. Of course not.
But where are you getting that "I don't care for your truth" just because
I can't represent or dictate your truth for you. Those two are not synonymous.
I'm just as old as you are Emily. I don't have to perceive anything. And I am not talking about "my reality." There is no my truth or your truth. There is only the truth.
And the truth for the black community is what is going to be presented here not only from the black census but from a wide variety of sources. This is just the start.
I posted a link to the state of black America and flacaltenn tried dissing that too. There are some things whites need to learn Emily. That's what this thread is about. And the first thing whites here need to learn are the things we are concerned about.
You see Emily, I've been a member here 4 years. I have over 23,000 posts. This means I have held enough conversations to know that there is a disconnect between what most of these whites here think about us compared to how we actually live.
It's time that ended. And it is not going to end by continuing to allow whites to keep posting inaccurate opinions about black people. Nor will it end by discussing these inaccurate opinions instead of having them examine exactly how black things.see
And we will KEEP working on these things
until we have peace and justice throughout the land
IM2 there is universal truth
and there are relative expressions and perceptions of it.
Nobody is omniscient and sees everything because our brains cannot contain it.
You and flacaltenn do a great job of trying to comb through everything comprehensively
and target the most important areas to address and prioritize.
Focus is going to be limited, and switch as we work through the process.
That's why we only see parts at a time.
If flacaltenn's approach or mine doesn't help you,
maybe it will help someone else shift through all the material
and find where to focus. Nobody can address it all at once,
so each person may pick a different angle or battle to take on.
The process is as big as the human race in ALL its diversity.
Neither you nor I or anyone could POSSIBLY contain the whole truth.
We can capture the whole ESSENCE of it, but not the expression.
Keep up the good work that you are most perfectly geared for.
I look forward to introducing you to Gladys, and my manager who
will most likely relate closer to you, and enjoy deeper discussions
that will meet your criteria of Blacks sharing from experience.
I told him he should prepare to run for office some day.
He is beginning to think he might serve in some capacity related,
so maybe talking these issues out with you would give him a
better idea what is needed.
I'm supposed to meet with him to introduce him to the team
putting together health care cooperatives that will change
the dynamics of medical economics the more people
and communities become empowered in owning and
managing their own resources and programs to the tune
of $5-10 million per chapter. Much work ahead and I will
need help to transfer the houses that Gladys wanted to
renovate for home health programs and onsite job training.
If you are part of this plan, which I hope you are,
thank you in advance and I look forward to seeing the
right team come together with Gladys to fulfill the
compiled plans of putting all the best ideas together.
Take care!
“ I posit that the Discourse of Individualism functions to: deny the significance of race and the advantages of being white; hide the accumulation of wealth over generations; deny social and historical context; prevent a macro analysis of the institutional and structural dimensions of social life; deny collective socialization and the power of dominant culture (media, education, religion, etc.) to shape our perspectives and ideology; function as neo-colorblindness and reproduce the myth of meritocracy; and make collective action difficult. Further, being viewed as an individual is a privilege only available to the dominant group. I explicate each of these discursive effects and argue that while we may be considered individuals in general, white insistence on Individualism in discussions of racism in particular functions to obscure and maintain racism.”
“ I posit that the Discourse of Individualism functions to: deny the significance of race and the advantages of being white; hide the accumulation of wealth over generations; deny social and historical context; prevent a macro analysis of the institutional and structural dimensions of social life; deny collective socialization and the power of dominant culture (media, education, religion, etc.) to shape our perspectives and ideology; function as neo-colorblindness and reproduce the myth of meritocracy; and make collective action difficult. Further, being viewed as an individual is a privilege only available to the dominant group. I explicate each of these discursive effects and argue that while we may be considered individuals in general, white insistence on Individualism in discussions of racism in particular functions to obscure and maintain racism.”
I read this and honestly considered its merit. While some points may be valid, I cannot agree with that message as it relates to individualism.
Please hear me out. Give me fair consideration, and I will give due consideration to a response. I am honestly trying to understand and give due consideration to your points of view.
I acknowledge that there are distinct advantages for white folks, for whatever reason. In my opinion, that is wholly irrelevant to individualism.
That statement, from my perspective, is nothing more than an attempt to promote communism/collectivism by associating individualism with something negative (racism). Given that black folks have been oppressed by racism, that statement seems to have been written specifically to persuade black folks that their only choice is communism or collectivism.
Many attempted associations in the statement are so loose that the illogical Marxist goal of the author is grotesquely transparent.
Individualism could be easier as a white person, but the author makes a huge logical leap is stating that it must, necessarily, by its very nature, ignores the significance of race. That is so logically flawed, that it appears to be deliberately so.
The statement further concludes (without basis) that individualism "denies collective socialization" as if it is a given that collective socialization is exclusively necessary, and the only option.
Furthermore, a person can have advantages of being white and still live under meritocracy. LIFE IS MERITOCRACY, regardless of social or economic advantage. Meritocracy is a work used by authoritarian marxists to convince people that their condition is hopeless, and that they must surrender their property rights to the collective so they can survive. It is a deliberate message of pure despair.
Another serious logical flaw is the claim that individualism is only available to the dominant group. I would LOVE to hear the author explain, and I am certain I can logically shred that explanation. The dominant group is itself a collective. Not being a part of the dominate group is individualistic.
That statement to me is itself oppression. It is Marxist propaganda designed to destroy confidence and reinforce false messages of inferiority. It lacks a single word of esteem. It is 100% degrading. If I were a black person reading it, I believe I would be insulted and offended.
This is how Marxist commie snakes operate. They do nothing but deceive and stir division, with the sole objective of using the ire of groups they divide to gain power.
Individualism is INDEPENDENT of race. To say that racism prevents individualism is so deliberately fallacious and contrary to any modicum of sound logic, that there is no way a person making that claim can be honest. And, I have not even broached the subject of how impossibly sweeping that statement must be in order to be true.
Understand, there are many truthful parts included in that statement that I do not dismiss, particularly the part about ignoring history. My beef is with the general message.
That flawed, dishonest message can be summed up as follows:.
"You insignificant proletarian darkies are so pathetic that you cannot be individuals. You have no choice but to be our goose-stepping commie pawns."
That is such a filthy insult, I am grinding my teeth in rage.
It makes me angry in defense of black folks. It makes me want to fight a war and die if necessary on behalf of black folks.
I hope you can see that my frustration is not in any way intended to be dismissive of your life experience or circumstances. I hope I have conveyed this message with genuine regard for my fellow countrymen. It is out of that genuine regard that I am moved to anger here, which is not directed at you.
I am willing to honestly listen to, and seriously consider a reply. I am pliable. I can be persuaded. Even if you and I cannot agree on the points raised above, I hold no ill will toward you, I intend to continue honest discussion, and I will continue to give you the respect you deserve.
.
“ I posit that the Discourse of Individualism functions to: deny the significance of race and the advantages of being white; hide the accumulation of wealth over generations; deny social and historical context; prevent a macro analysis of the institutional and structural dimensions of social life; deny collective socialization and the power of dominant culture (media, education, religion, etc.) to shape our perspectives and ideology; function as neo-colorblindness and reproduce the myth of meritocracy; and make collective action difficult. Further, being viewed as an individual is a privilege only available to the dominant group. I explicate each of these discursive effects and argue that while we may be considered individuals in general, white insistence on Individualism in discussions of racism in particular functions to obscure and maintain racism.”
I read this and honestly considered its merit. While some points may be valid, I cannot agree with that message as it relates to individualism.
Please hear me out. Give me fair consideration, and I will give due consideration to a response. I am honestly trying to understand and give due consideration to your points of view.
I acknowledge that there are distinct advantages for white folks, for whatever reason. In my opinion, that is wholly irrelevant to individualism.
That statement, from my perspective, is nothing more than an attempt to promote communism/collectivism by associating individualism with something negative (racism). Given that black folks have been oppressed by racism, that statement seems to have been written specifically to persuade black folks that their only choice is communism or collectivism.
Many attempted associations in the statement are so loose that the illogical Marxist goal of the author is grotesquely transparent.
Individualism could be easier as a white person, but the author makes a huge logical leap is stating that it must, necessarily, by its very nature, ignores the significance of race. That is so logically flawed, that it appears to be deliberately so.
The statement further concludes (without basis) that individualism "denies collective socialization" as if it is a given that collective socialization is exclusively necessary, and the only option.
Furthermore, a person can have advantages of being white and still live under meritocracy. LIFE IS MERITOCRACY, regardless of social or economic advantage. Meritocracy is a work used by authoritarian marxists to convince people that their condition is hopeless, and that they must surrender their property rights to the collective so they can survive. It is a deliberate message of pure despair.
Another serious logical flaw is the claim that individualism is only available to the dominant group. I would LOVE to hear the author explain, and I am certain I can logically shred that explanation. The dominant group is itself a collective. Not being a part of the dominate group is individualistic.
That statement to me is itself oppression. It is Marxist propaganda designed to destroy confidence and reinforce false messages of inferiority. It lacks a single word of esteem. It is 100% degrading. If I were a black person reading it, I believe I would be insulted and offended.
This is how Marxist commie snakes operate. They do nothing but deceive and stir division, with the sole objective of using the ire of groups they divide to gain power.
Individualism is INDEPENDENT of race. To say that racism prevents individualism is so deliberately fallacious and contrary to any modicum of sound logic, that there is no way a person making that claim can be honest. And, I have not even broached the subject of how impossibly sweeping that statement must be in order to be true.
Understand, there are many truthful parts included in that statement that I do not dismiss, particularly the part about ignoring history. My beef is with the general message.
That flawed, dishonest message can be summed up as follows:.
"You insignificant proletarian darkies are so pathetic that you cannot be individuals. You have no choice but to be our goose-stepping commie pawns."
That is such a filthy insult, I am grinding my teeth in rage.
It makes me angry in defense of black folks. It makes me want to fight a war and die if necessary on behalf of black folks.
I hope you can see that my frustration is not in any way intended to be dismissive of your life experience or circumstances. I hope I have conveyed this message with genuine regard for my fellow countrymen. It is out of that genuine regard that I am moved to anger here, which is not directed at you.
I am willing to honestly listen to, and seriously consider a reply. I am pliable. I can be persuaded. Even if you and I cannot agree on the points raised above, I hold no ill will toward you, I intend to continue honest discussion, and I will continue to give you the respect you deserve.
.
This is true. Undeniable.Too many racists use the claim of being an individual to deny current racism or damages caused by the American history of it.
I learned how to read fairly well during my year in the third grade. You probably had at least two years to learn it. What happened?There are far too many whites here arguing with things said by blacks without having read any information. And while I doubt if those who are only here because they can talk their racist trash without getting their teeth busted will read these facts, be forewarned that off topic posts will be reported immediately.
You are about to begin looking at information from a report named "More Black than Blue: Politics and Power in the 2019 Black Census" by the Black Futures Lab
"The Black Futures Lab’s Black Census Project is the largest survey of Black people conducted in the United States since Reconstruction. Reached through online outreach methods and community partnerships, over 30,000 Black people from across the country participated in the Black Census Project, providing experiences, views and opinions about politics, society, and the opportunities and challenges facing Black communities and the nation. The Black Census Project amplifies the concerns and aspirations of the most politically and civically engaged Black adults in the U.S., revealing issues critical to activating and engaging Black communities in the years ahead."
To conduct the Census, the Black Futures Lab worked in partnership with more than 30 grassroots organizations serving Black communities nationwide. The Black Futures Lab also partnered with 2 of the largest online civil rights organizations serving Black communities and their allies— PushBlack and Color of Change. As a result, the Black Census includes populations that are usually not represented or are underrepresented in traditional surveys, such as homeless people, incarcerated people, LGBTQ people, Black Republicans and conservatives, Black immigrants, and mixed-raced people with a Black parent, among others.
The Black Census is not a traditional probabilistic survey sample, which often fails to fully represent populations whose experiences are important to understanding the complexity of Black life. Instead, the Black Census utilized unique survey collection methods that drew on robust online networks and sent local organizers into Black businesses, churches, libraries, barbershops and other community gathering places from North Carolina to Nevada, providing a rare and important opportunity to hear and learn from voices too often at the margins of America’s political debate.
This is the first in a series of reports on the Black Census, focusing on the most pressing economic and criminal justice issues among Black Census respondents, with a spotlight on how respondents are engaged in the electoral process.
"Sure, white racism caused the oppression and disadvantage of black people, but I didn't do anything. I am an individual, not a race."
So, it's not that I, as white person caused the disadvantaged condition of black folks, but I as an American owe a duty to my fellow countrymen and my country as a whole to do something about it, not as a white person, but as a fellow American?"Sure, white racism caused the oppression and disadvantage of black people, but I didn't do anything. I am an individual, not a race."
That pretty much sums it up Bootney.
He just wants reparations for all his worthless klan.So, it's not that I, as white person caused the disadvantaged condition of black folks, but I as an American owe a duty to my fellow countrymen and my country as a whole to do something about it, not as a white person, but as a fellow American?"Sure, white racism caused the oppression and disadvantage of black people, but I didn't do anything. I am an individual, not a race."
That pretty much sums it up Bootney.
Am I getting there?
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