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I believe that I have come to disagree.He just wants reparations for all his worthless klan.So, it's not that I, as white person caused the disadvantaged condition of black folks, but I as an American owe a duty to my fellow countrymen and my country as a whole to do something about it, not as a white person, but as a fellow American?"Sure, white racism caused the oppression and disadvantage of black people, but I didn't do anything. I am an individual, not a race."
That pretty much sums it up Bootney.
Am I getting there?
.
Dope, he wants to destroy whites.I believe that I have come to disagree.He just wants reparations for all his worthless klan.So, it's not that I, as white person caused the disadvantaged condition of black folks, but I as an American owe a duty to my fellow countrymen and my country as a whole to do something about it, not as a white person, but as a fellow American?"Sure, white racism caused the oppression and disadvantage of black people, but I didn't do anything. I am an individual, not a race."
That pretty much sums it up Bootney.
Am I getting there?
.
I believe I am starting to understand his position. If it is what suspect, he is right.
We speak of Nationalism as an ideal, but we don't practice it. We don't see each other as fellow countrymen to whom we owe loyalty.
Is IM2 your fellow countryman or not? Doesn't his success ultimately result in yours? Doesn't the tide lift all boats? Isn't his success America's success?
.
Do you really believe that?Dope, he wants to destroy whites.
We've heard him, all he does is rail against' whites, and never will respond truthfully to anything that doesn't fit the whites are the root of all evilsDo you really believe that?Dope, he wants to destroy whites.
Maybe he is just pissed off because a bunch of whites dismiss and invalidate his concerns without bothering to hear him?
I am not saying he is right about everything. He may want to "get even" with whitey, but it doesn't seem that way after talking with him a bit, and actually listening.
.
Maybe. But, I am beginning to get a different understanding.We've heard him, all he does is rail against' whites, and never will respond truthfully to anything that doesn't fit the whites are the root of all evilsDo you really believe that?Dope, he wants to destroy whites.
Maybe he is just pissed off because a bunch of whites dismiss and invalidate his concerns without bothering to hear him?
I am not saying he is right about everything. He may want to "get even" with whitey, but it doesn't seem that way after talking with him a bit, and actually listening.
.
There are far too many whites here arguing with things said by blacks without having read any information. And while I doubt if those who are only here because they can talk their racist trash without getting their teeth busted will read these facts, be forewarned that off topic posts will be reported immediately.
You are about to begin looking at information from a report named "More Black than Blue: Politics and Power in the 2019 Black Census" by the Black Futures Lab
"The Black Futures Lab’s Black Census Project is the largest survey of Black people conducted in the United States since Reconstruction. Reached through online outreach methods and community partnerships, over 30,000 Black people from across the country participated in the Black Census Project, providing experiences, views and opinions about politics, society, and the opportunities and challenges facing Black communities and the nation. The Black Census Project amplifies the concerns and aspirations of the most politically and civically engaged Black adults in the U.S., revealing issues critical to activating and engaging Black communities in the years ahead."
To conduct the Census, the Black Futures Lab worked in partnership with more than 30 grassroots organizations serving Black communities nationwide. The Black Futures Lab also partnered with 2 of the largest online civil rights organizations serving Black communities and their allies— PushBlack and Color of Change. As a result, the Black Census includes populations that are usually not represented or are underrepresented in traditional surveys, such as homeless people, incarcerated people, LGBTQ people, Black Republicans and conservatives, Black immigrants, and mixed-raced people with a Black parent, among others.
The Black Census is not a traditional probabilistic survey sample, which often fails to fully represent populations whose experiences are important to understanding the complexity of Black life. Instead, the Black Census utilized unique survey collection methods that drew on robust online networks and sent local organizers into Black businesses, churches, libraries, barbershops and other community gathering places from North Carolina to Nevada, providing a rare and important opportunity to hear and learn from voices too often at the margins of America’s political debate.
This is the first in a series of reports on the Black Census, focusing on the most pressing economic and criminal justice issues among Black Census respondents, with a spotlight on how respondents are engaged in the electoral process.
There are far too many whites here arguing with things said by blacks without having read any information. And while I doubt if those who are only here because they can talk their racist trash without getting their teeth busted will read these facts, be forewarned that off topic posts will be reported immediately.
You are about to begin looking at information from a report named "More Black than Blue: Politics and Power in the 2019 Black Census" by the Black Futures Lab
"The Black Futures Lab’s Black Census Project is the largest survey of Black people conducted in the United States since Reconstruction. Reached through online outreach methods and community partnerships, over 30,000 Black people from across the country participated in the Black Census Project, providing experiences, views and opinions about politics, society, and the opportunities and challenges facing Black communities and the nation. The Black Census Project amplifies the concerns and aspirations of the most politically and civically engaged Black adults in the U.S., revealing issues critical to activating and engaging Black communities in the years ahead."
To conduct the Census, the Black Futures Lab worked in partnership with more than 30 grassroots organizations serving Black communities nationwide. The Black Futures Lab also partnered with 2 of the largest online civil rights organizations serving Black communities and their allies— PushBlack and Color of Change. As a result, the Black Census includes populations that are usually not represented or are underrepresented in traditional surveys, such as homeless people, incarcerated people, LGBTQ people, Black Republicans and conservatives, Black immigrants, and mixed-raced people with a Black parent, among others.
The Black Census is not a traditional probabilistic survey sample, which often fails to fully represent populations whose experiences are important to understanding the complexity of Black life. Instead, the Black Census utilized unique survey collection methods that drew on robust online networks and sent local organizers into Black businesses, churches, libraries, barbershops and other community gathering places from North Carolina to Nevada, providing a rare and important opportunity to hear and learn from voices too often at the margins of America’s political debate.
This is the first in a series of reports on the Black Census, focusing on the most pressing economic and criminal justice issues among Black Census respondents, with a spotlight on how respondents are engaged in the electoral process.
I got about 8 pages into this survey and got the general picture.. When you ASK folks SIMPLY if they want FREE STUFF -- the answer is ALWAYS yes.. And governance and political leadership to this org is all about the "free stuff"...
Who doesn't want free college, free healthcare, and $30/hour?? The only way to get REAL answers to this litany of pandering with $trillion handouts is to ask --- WHAT WOULD YOU GIVE UP to pay for these things?
When it gets into "Climate Justice" --- I'm pretty much out of here... Because it sucks to even CONTEMPLATE that meaning when there are far more imminent and life-threatening problems to THESE generations -- right now today...
And here he goes with his standard racist drivel. Fool, climate is the most pressing issue right now today. When will whites like you who ask for free shit all the time stop talking stupid.
Really? How hot is it gonna be in 2100? It's warmed about 0.8DegC in your lifetime give or take a 1/10 of a degree.. Is that somehow killing a lot of inner city people???
We just had around 600 tornadoes in the region I live in this week. Not to mention the thunderstorms and flooding. This is a result of climate. NOW. TODAY.
And since blacks don't just live in the inner cities, you have again displayed your racist ignorance.
While you tell whites what they need to do.Dear IM2 and flacaltenn
this could go back and forth or in circles on areas of disagreement and conflict
I'm more interested in what this thread would produce
where points actually INTERSECT and connect on
directions toward SOLUTIONS that won't be in any conflict
REAL solutions won't trigger:
Black vs White conflicts
Conservative vs. other group conflicts
Male/Male or Male/Female conflicts
Racism, Individualism or other False Equivalency issues
Can we focus on the key points that are so critical
to all views they transcend all the above ^
What are the best points in IM2 posts
that we gain and make the most of.
ie, Minus anything off target that distracts from those.
Emily anything we blacks suggest will trigger white/black conflicts because whites like flacaltenn thinks he knows better what blacks need than black people do. I cannot tell you what it's like to be pregnant no matter how many children I have seen being born, books I have read or opinions from women I have heard. But flacaltenn thinks he knows what blacks need to do because he listens and reads stuff from black conservative elites.
IM2 you can call it White vs. Black, or it could be male vs. male
For all I know it was "FLACALTENN" (the individual) reading through that and finding a POLITICAL BIAS and you (as IM2) reading through his posts and finding
a WHITE/BLACK RACIAL bias.
NOTE: With your thread set up under your rules,
and this forum set up under rules not to argue with Mods about Moderation,
PLUS natural laws that neither you or I as free users are going to
have equal weight as the people working to provide free forum usage to others,
there's THAT dynamic going on as well.
Regardless of all those overlapping biases and dynamics,
I still see the point that the polls focus on "politically active" input
and this isn't perfectly representative if it leaves out other voices
that were eligible to be included.
You see that as "white justification to discount or discredit"
I see it as a specific point that doesn't NEGATE the value of the post.
Nothing is ever going to be PERFECTLY representative of the whole.
As long as you get out of it what you feel represents YOU,
I trust YOU to tell me that, regardless how imperfect or perfect the
material maybe. YOU tell me what YOU get out of it.
And others do the same. I listen to THEM as it applies to THEM.
I listen to YOU as it applies to YOU. So there is no conflict,
you BOTH tell me what represents YOU. Even if you get
totally different takes from the same material. It's about YOU
not picking you or the material apart, unless it helps me understand YOU.
Emily try that weak individualism stuff elsewhere.
“ I posit that the Discourse of Individualism functions to: deny the significance of race and the advantages of being white; hide the accumulation of wealth over generations; deny social and historical context; prevent a macro analysis of the institutional and structural dimensions of social life; deny collective socialization and the power of dominant culture (media, education, religion, etc.) to shape our perspectives and ideology; function as neo-colorblindness and reproduce the myth of meritocracy; and make collective action difficult. Further, being viewed as an individual is a privilege only available to the dominant group. I explicate each of these discursive effects and argue that while we may be considered individuals in general, white insistence on Individualism in discussions of racism in particular functions to obscure and maintain racism.”
Robin DeAngelo
This explanation speaks for itself. Individualism discounts the effects of history, which cannot be ignored in any discussion of race. It denies the social structure created by racism. It refuses to accept that a dominant white culture was created due to the racist laws and policies denying people of color AS A GROUP. It removes the individual responsibility whites have to end racism in their community because they are an individual and did not do it so find those who did is the attitude you get from whites who use individualism as a denial.
Even more specifically, those who argue about individualism would have a case if racism was practiced in a way that harmed a few individuals while being done by just a few people. Racism is a macro level problem. Individualism is a micro level philosophy.
Dear IM2
I am not talking about "Individualism" collectively which makes no sense.
of course it contradicts itself.
I am talking about understanding EACH PERSON individually.
I agree with you that "individualism" as a "collective practice"
is going to fail. That is clearly contradictory.
It brings to mind the ridiculous
satirical scene in Monty Python with the CROWD CHANTING LIKE BORG:
"WE ARE ALL INDIVIDUALS!"
I get what you are saying IM2
And that is NOT what I am saying.
Fair enough. So realize I understand flacaltenn. He is the one who told me that blacks only live in the black community to show their blackness. Flacaltenn is the person that said the best solution for blacks was to move out of black communities and into rural all white towns. Flacaltenn never shows up in threads by whites talking about what blacks need to do. He is being looked at as an individual. A white racist individual who thinks he can tell blacks what blacks need to do.
You sure are a racist...and a coward.You don't speak for all black people. Obviously.
This has nothing to do with the thread topic. Most blacks oppose what white conservatives support. I am black, and in this thread I will not be arguing with anyone white trying to tell me about black people. Your next off topic post will be reported.
I'd speak for all black people if I said what whites like you need to hear. You don't speak for any black people. 2 percent of the black community is republican. I know what black people are wb. Because I am black. Since you have decided to argue off topic and won't stop, you will be reported.
I don't doubt it. What's he going to call the cops for?You sure are a racist...and a coward.You don't speak for all black people. Obviously.This has nothing to do with the thread topic. Most blacks oppose what white conservatives support. I am black, and in this thread I will not be arguing with anyone white trying to tell me about black people. Your next off topic post will be reported.
I'd speak for all black people if I said what whites like you need to hear. You don't speak for any black people. 2 percent of the black community is republican. I know what black people are wb. Because I am black. Since you have decided to argue off topic and won't stop, you will be reported.
He's threatened me with the police twice and run away every time I've confronted him.
HE DISAGREED WITH ME ON THE INTERNET!!!!!!!
LOL! Pathetic.
So, it's not that I, as white person caused the disadvantaged condition of black folks, but I as an American owe a duty to my fellow countrymen and my country as a whole to do something about it, not as a white person, but as a fellow American?"Sure, white racism caused the oppression and disadvantage of black people, but I didn't do anything. I am an individual, not a race."
That pretty much sums it up Bootney.
Am I getting there?
.
It seems that he and others of his ilk turn to violence when discussing race with whites in personThere are far too many whites here arguing with things said by blacks without having read any information. And while I doubt if those who are only here because they can talk their racist trash without getting their teeth busted will read these facts, be forewarned that off topic posts will be reported immediately.
You are about to begin looking at information from a report named "More Black than Blue: Politics and Power in the 2019 Black Census" by the Black Futures Lab
"The Black Futures Lab’s Black Census Project is the largest survey of Black people conducted in the United States since Reconstruction. Reached through online outreach methods and community partnerships, over 30,000 Black people from across the country participated in the Black Census Project, providing experiences, views and opinions about politics, society, and the opportunities and challenges facing Black communities and the nation. The Black Census Project amplifies the concerns and aspirations of the most politically and civically engaged Black adults in the U.S., revealing issues critical to activating and engaging Black communities in the years ahead."
To conduct the Census, the Black Futures Lab worked in partnership with more than 30 grassroots organizations serving Black communities nationwide. The Black Futures Lab also partnered with 2 of the largest online civil rights organizations serving Black communities and their allies— PushBlack and Color of Change. As a result, the Black Census includes populations that are usually not represented or are underrepresented in traditional surveys, such as homeless people, incarcerated people, LGBTQ people, Black Republicans and conservatives, Black immigrants, and mixed-raced people with a Black parent, among others.
The Black Census is not a traditional probabilistic survey sample, which often fails to fully represent populations whose experiences are important to understanding the complexity of Black life. Instead, the Black Census utilized unique survey collection methods that drew on robust online networks and sent local organizers into Black businesses, churches, libraries, barbershops and other community gathering places from North Carolina to Nevada, providing a rare and important opportunity to hear and learn from voices too often at the margins of America’s political debate.
This is the first in a series of reports on the Black Census, focusing on the most pressing economic and criminal justice issues among Black Census respondents, with a spotlight on how respondents are engaged in the electoral process.
I've given you my name and my phone number yet......you decline to engage. Are you afraid LaQuisha?
I have personally seen injustices toward black folks when it comes to criminal justice, particularly in sentencing. A rich white woman is getting the bare-ass minimum. A poor black male is more likely to get the maximum sentence, and anything else the prosecution can dig up.Black Census respondents express deep concern on criminal justice issues, including the illegitimate use of force by the police and the prevalence of gun violence in Black communities. Recognizing the impact of mass incarceration on political power, respondents also want voting rights restored to formerly incarcerated people.
Policing is a major area of concern for Black Census respondents. More than 8 in 10 respondents consider police officers killing Black people a problem in the community (87 percent). Eighty-four percent say that police officers not being held accountable for their crimes is a problem, while 83 percent describe excessive use of force by police officers as a problem. More than half (55 percent) of respondents have personally had a negative interaction with the police at some point, and 28 percent have had at least one negative interaction in the last 6 months. More than a third (38 percent) of Black Census respondents had their first negative interaction with the police before the age of 18. Younger respondents are also more likely to report recent negative police interactions, with 38 percent describing a negative encounter with police in the last 6 months.
Policing in Black communities has always been a site of contention. From the nation’s earliest history of slave patrols searching for and punishing enslaved people they thought were trying to escape, police forces have too often been deployed to suppress the rights of Black people in the United States rather than to improve public safety in Black communities. Today, systemic racism continues to permeate police departments across the country: Unarmed Black people remain far more likely to be victims of police violence than their white counterparts.
Many of the uprisings in the 1960s were sparked by police brutality. For example, when a white police officer repeatedly shot unarmed 16-year-old Matthew Johnson in San Francisco in September 1966, the killing sparked the Hunters Point uprising and helped to inspire the formation of the Black Panther Party for Self-Defense one month later.22 An immediate end to police brutality was central to the Black Panthers’ Ten-Point Program, as members organized armed patrols of Black community members to counter police violence.
Today, the Black Lives Matter movement is shining a powerful spotlight on the persistence of police violence and misconduct. Black Census respondents strongly support Black Lives Matter, giving the movement a net favorability (favorable percentage minus unfavorable percentage) rating of 81 percent, which is about the same rating as the respondents give to President Barack Obama. Meanwhile, net favorability toward the police is minus 37 percent.
Despite an unfavorable view of police departments, most Black Census respondents believe that relations between police and local Black communities can be improved (only 7 percent of respondents assert that “I don’t think the relationship between the police and Black people in my community can improve,” and an additional 5 percent maintain that the relationship needs no improvement). The most popular proposal for improving relations with the police is ensuring that officers are held accountable for their misconduct, endorsed by 73 percent of Black Census respondents.
In addition, 60 percent of respondents believe that requiring police officers to wear body cameras to record interactions with the community would improve relations. While individual-level body cameras clearly cannot address systemic racism in policing, many proponents see them as tools to hold law enforcement broadly accountable for their actions, potentially changing the culture of policing.
About half of respondents recommend measures such as having police officers live in the communities where they work, recruiting more police officers from Black and other minority communities, and creating community boards to supervise police departments. About half (53 percent) of respondents over the age of 60 believe that police/community relations would be improved if parents took more responsibility for the behavior of their children, but younger respondents were less supportive of this approach. Only 24 percent of respondents believe that relations would improve if members of the community were more respectful of police officers.
Gun violence is an area of deep concern, described by nearly 90 percent of Black Census respondents as a problem in Black communities. Three-quarters of respondents see it as a major problem. In nearly half of states, the Black firearm death rate is 2 or more times the white rate.24 Gun violence is the single most common cause of death for Black children and teenagers.25 In response to this epidemic, Black communities across the country have mobilized for years against gun violence, pioneering the use of restorative justice practices, violence interrupters, and other innovative strategies to address the prevalence of gun violence. Congresswoman Lucy McBath (D-GA), whose 17-year-old son, Jordan Davis, was murdered by Michael Dunn, a white man enraged by his loud music, was elected to office in 2018 on a gun control platform.
Yet politicized narratives blame Black communities for violence, ignoring the systemic factors that contribute to its persistence: High rates of gun violence are rooted in poverty, inequality, and racial segregation.26 Neighborhoods that are isolated from basic services and provide little access to stable, well-paid employment experience more violence. Thus, while the Black Census did not ask respondents directly about policy solutions to address gun violence, many of the policies respondents most strongly support—such as raising pay and guaranteeing quality and affordable housing, health care, and education in Black communities—in fact show great promise in reducing violence.28 Improving police-community relations, through efforts such as reliably holding police accountable for their misconduct, can also help establish a foundation for preventing gun violence.
I have seen this as well. The father of one of my college roommates was a cop. I remember feeling uneasy when hearing him express his general attitude toward black folks. I remember thinking that the general complaint about racism within the police department was just confirmed. After hearing about some of his experiences, I came away thinking that he was misguided, but his negative experiences with very few individuals who refused to cooperate and caused a situation to escalate into something way beyond what it should have been, shaped his attitude toward the whole black community. Likewise, it seems that interactions with a few bad police officers shaped attitudes toward police as a whole for black folks. So, now you have police expecting certain behaviors and responses from black folks, and black folks expecting police to be unreasonable and unjust.Today, systemic racism continues to permeate police departments across the country:
I support having police officers come from the communities they serve and protect. They know the community and the people they serve, and tend to have a personal interest in protecting the community. They are better equipped to keep situations from escalating. Some pasty white cop from a completely different neighborhood is less likely to be trusted in a mostly-black neighborhood.About half of respondents recommend measures such as having police officers live in the communities where they work, recruiting more police officers from Black and other minority communities, and creating community boards to supervise police departments. About half (53 percent) of respondents over the age of 60 believe that police/community relations would be improved if parents took more responsibility for the behavior of their children, but younger respondents were less supportive of this approach. Only 24 percent of respondents believe that relations would improve if members of the community were more respectful of police officers.
The Michael Dunn/Jordan Davis MURDER is a sickening situation that highlights my general repulsion of authoritarianism and gravitation toward liberalism/libertarianism. Dunn is the personification of the abhorrent authoritarian attitudes held by the right wing. He apparently does not believe that other people have the right to play loud music in public commercial settings that he does not own or control. When his authoritarian demands were not obeyed and his authority as an older white person was defied by young black kids whom Dunn undoubtedly believed to be inferior in every possible way, he believed it appropriate to issue a death sentence to the disobedient/defiant.Congresswoman Lucy McBath (D-GA), whose 17-year-old son, Jordan Davis, was murdered by Michael Dunn, a white man enraged by his loud music, was elected to office in 2018 on a gun control platform.
You stamping your feet and pouting doesn't make it true.I don't doubt it. What's he going to call the cops for?You sure are a racist...and a coward.You don't speak for all black people. Obviously.
I'd speak for all black people if I said what whites like you need to hear. You don't speak for any black people. 2 percent of the black community is republican. I know what black people are wb. Because I am black. Since you have decided to argue off topic and won't stop, you will be reported.
He's threatened me with the police twice and run away every time I've confronted him.
HE DISAGREED WITH ME ON THE INTERNET!!!!!!!
LOL! Pathetic.
This is not about a disagreement on the internet. I have not run. I decided to ignore. Dale doesn't seem to understand what he would face if I took him up on his challenge. As for you, well you're a joke. You call me a racist because you can't face the truth. And in this thread you will learn the truth.
You stamping your feet and pouting doesn't make it true.I don't doubt it. What's he going to call the cops for?You sure are a racist...and a coward.I'd speak for all black people if I said what whites like you need to hear. You don't speak for any black people. 2 percent of the black community is republican. I know what black people are wb. Because I am black. Since you have decided to argue off topic and won't stop, you will be reported.
He's threatened me with the police twice and run away every time I've confronted him.
HE DISAGREED WITH ME ON THE INTERNET!!!!!!!
LOL! Pathetic.
This is not about a disagreement on the internet. I have not run. I decided to ignore. Dale doesn't seem to understand what he would face if I took him up on his challenge. As for you, well you're a joke. You call me a racist because you can't face the truth. And in this thread you will learn the truth.
I call you a racist because you are. I don't fling that accusation around to people I disagree with; that's a leftist thing when you can't make a rational argument. Y'all have rendered the word damn near meaningless.
More non-whites than whites have owned black people throughout history.You stamping your feet and pouting doesn't make it true.I don't doubt it. What's he going to call the cops for?You sure are a racist...and a coward.
He's threatened me with the police twice and run away every time I've confronted him.
HE DISAGREED WITH ME ON THE INTERNET!!!!!!!
LOL! Pathetic.
This is not about a disagreement on the internet. I have not run. I decided to ignore. Dale doesn't seem to understand what he would face if I took him up on his challenge. As for you, well you're a joke. You call me a racist because you can't face the truth. And in this thread you will learn the truth.
I call you a racist because you are. I don't fling that accusation around to people I disagree with; that's a leftist thing when you can't make a rational argument. Y'all have rendered the word damn near meaningless.
You call me a racist for accurately hold whites responsible for what they have done. It's a common right wing tactic used when you cannot dispute the evidence. I laugh at people like you and keep posting the evidence.
