There are just some things whites need to learn

[IM2]

1. RE Post to MB: "It would appear those are the things you want. Because you keep trying to tell me about black people . But I am black and face things blacks actually face. But according to you the issues I see as an actual black person cannot be. I must only accept what you say the issues are. And if I don't then I am the one who doesn't want understanding."

2. "Emily, no other race of people in America have done what whites have done and continue doing. All your attempts to make equivalences only allows racists to deny their problem."

Now we are REALLY getting to the point, IM2, thank you for clarifying and pushing the meaning and reasons behind what you say.

1. NOBODY should really expect to tell ANYONE their business.
You are not them. They are not you.

As one of my friends explained it "neurologically" as an atheist/humanist/relativist to an EXTREME,
each individual develops such intricate unique brain patterns conditioned with LANGUAGE and EXPERIENCES
that we can barely understand each other, we process information so differently.
It's amazing we communicate at all, and no wonder we conflict because of the sheer numbers of combinations
of "neural impulses" that can't POSSIBLY match up.

NOTE: this applies back to itself, IM2
Once "I am not you" then however YOU voice and express your objections,
even if it is nowhere NEAR the way "I would SAY the same thing"
that's your way that means something to you that NOBODY ELSE
on the PLANET, in the UNIVERSE, or any place in history or ETERNITY,
can replicate understand or "dictate" because NOBODY ELSE IS YOU.

Thus, you and anyone else, are NOT going to perfectly understand.
And if you already have this mode of addressing and talking with people,
including already clash with people who can't stand the way you say it,
that's not going to change "by talking to you outside your stated conditions."

2. As for "no other race in America doing what whites have done"
A. Neither has the good (or bad) that European descendants/Caucasians have done
been done by anyone else.
B. Neither has the good (or bad) that Black individuals have done been done by anyone else.
THIS ISN'T ABOUT FALSE EQUIVALENCIES

It's about taking EACH INDIVIDUAL PERSON and talking about what THAT PERSON does that is good or bad.
And if it is bad, how do we CORRECT the bad problem instead of "judging the person or group".
Bad problems involve FACTORS that can be corrected.

Race cannot be changed, it is genetic,
if you are saying the race is the problem, how is race causing that.
How is it genetics of the Chromosomes causing the criticized outcomes and behavior?

Wouldn't you say the conditioning, prejudice, or oppressive behavior and attitude
is in the mind or spirit, or is in societal institutions?

If so, THOSE CAN BE RESOLVED, and patterns from the past CAUSED by these factors
CAN BE CHANGED to be corrected and prevented, including restitution to restore justice.

3. Whatever problems you have with "white people dominating others" and "imposing their biases" and "justifying the same disparity to continue"
ALL THAT IS CAUSED BY INDIVIDUAL MINDSETS AND INSTITUTIONAL CONDITIONS THAT CAN CHANGE

It isn't the "race" in itself, but some CONDITIONING you are saying
such PEOPLE are carrying. This effects INDIVIDUALS first, and COLLECTIVELY
it affects "whole groups". The way human nature accepts change, the individuals
FORGIVE and let go of past patterns to ACCEPT and RECEIVE change and growth.

This starts in the mind or spirit of the person INDIVIDUALLY, then affects RELATIONS with others,
AND THEN IT AFFECTS THE COLLECTIVE INSTITUTIONS in a replicating ripple effect.

Do you understand I am NOT justifying or saying "it doesn't matter" or "it's all the same"

I'm saying it's the opposite: IT DOES MATTER BECAUSE
NO INDIVIDUALS ARE THE SAME.
WE ALL HAVE TO GO THROUGH THIS SAME PROCESS TO CHANGE INSTITUTIONS.

So if you want "white people" and "white biases in institutions" to change,
it takes breaking down these "collective entities" back to
INDIVIDUAL INTERACTIONS ONE ON ONE.
Then people INCLUDING WHITES can take responsibility for changing themselves.

NOTE: IM2 if this is NOT your way, of "breaking things down to the individual molecules," you are right, that may be YOUR way because you are Black and you communicate COLLECTIVELY with your brothers and sisters in the struggle that only YOU understand and CAN REPRESENT.

if it's just more "white people way" to address "one on one" and take things "individually"
while grouping "collective perceptions" in a TOTALLY DIFFERENT WAY (including "false equivalencies")
then THAT IS NOT YOUR WAY.

So by this very dynamic, your way is uniquely you.
You call it being Black and part of that Black collective dynamic.

I see it as you individually expressing and just being you, including this as part of YOU.
So that's my "white cultural thinking" spelled out
in "Asian Emily" terms, where I mix both the "collective mentality" with the "individual unique language"
and likely offend both sides by trying to pick both apart
down to the molecules where I can understand them
from MY individual way, which is a mix of different cultures as well.

Thank you for accommodating my different way on here
that has some of the same elements as the "white people's way"
Sorry about that

The difference with me, individually as Emily, is that I FORGIVE whatever ways
you have and these other "white people" have that so offend and contradict each other.

I forgive that anyway, because I understand you have your own way of seeing and saying things, and so do they. And your language and meaning totally step on and impose on each other.

I think it's also a MALE thing, where men's responses are conditioned to
PROTECT THEIR TURF FROM OTHER MALE DOMINANCE
So there's THAT FACTOR going on as well.

I am guessing all of the "white or black" MEN on here would end up clashing more
with other MEN regardless of race, but part of that is GENDER.

You can't CHANGE the fact you are MALE
so that's another level to forgive.

Thank you for sharing and I hope you get more mileage out of this
thread than you asked or expected. We need more people like you
willing to spell it all out and share resources and information to bridge these gaps.

Keep up the informative posts, and transparent clarifications
that really help. Take care and I'll see you on the other side
of this barrier you are working to take down. Best wishes
and you have my support to keep fighting the good fight,
and overcoming any obstacles you face in this struggle.

Thanks!

No Emily it's not about being male. Some of the fiercest warriors against white racism have been black women. Ask Gladys. This nation was built on the idea of the collective while those in the controlling collective lied to themselves about individualism. We are talking about a macro level problem and individualism is a micro level belief.

Okay IM2 so when it comes to
A. Collective groups
1. White vs. Black it's all the fault of the Whites
(except with #3 Conservatives then Black Conservatives are abusive)
2. Men vs. Women it's BOTH (as long as they are White or Conservative)
3. Conservatives vs. liberals it's the Conservatives who are oppressive (whether they are Black or White, or Men or Women)

Is this what you are saying?

B. "Individualism" vs. Individuals
1. Whites abuse and lie about "individualism" when it is used COLLECTIVELY
2. What about working one on one with people INDIVIDUALLY.
This is not the same as making blanket generalizations using "individualism"

Can we break down "individualism"
into PARTICULAR cases where a person INDIVIDUALLY either
(a) makes a FALSE GENERALIZATION lying about or abusing "individualism"
(b) is actually fair in working one on one with oneself and another person
so this is actually treating both people with equal respect as individuals

Thank you IM2

Emily, I am only going to reply to your first comment because you are off topic.

Right wing blacks do nothing for progress in the black community. Second laws and public policy through the history of this nation have been made by whites that have caused the problems blacks/non-whites face today.

This is a hard cold fact.

I have posted concerns held by the black community and as usual I get the stupid. So if you don't want to discuss the specific concerns, feel free to start your own thread..

 

[IM2]

Diversity of Political Affiliation

While only 2 percent of Black Census respondents identify politically as Republicans, the remainder are not all Democrats. Nearly a quarter identify as independents. About 60 percent identify as Democrats. Another 6 percent have allegiance to some other political party.

Black Census respondents are more positive toward the Democratic Party than the Republican Party, but nearly a fifth have unfavorable views toward the Democratic Party. The Democratic Party has a net favorability rating (favorable percentage minus unfavorable percentage) of 43 percent, much better than the Republican Party’s net favorability rating of minus 67 percent. However, if one compares the Democratic Party’s 43 percent net favorability rating to the NAACP’s 60 percent, it becomes clear that there is room for improvement in the Democratic Party in the eyes of the respondents.

As for you people waiting for the opinions of black conservatives in the hopes they'll say something that validates what you want to believe about black people, you will probably be sorely disappointed. Furthermore no one asks any of you when you post your racism whether you ask people who are liberal or non racist. The information in this thread is about the concerns of the black community as seen by blacks. Not by ideology and certainly not issues that whites think we should consider.

Nationwide -- the percent that have ABANDONED both parties is around 46% and growing.. So there's no nothing "black" about realizing that the 2 main parties are useless and unworthy of support..

Then there's this from the methodology section of the Census...

Because traditional surveys too often erase the diverse experiences of Black people and particular segments of the Black community, the Black Census Project intentionally oversampled certain populations: Black Census respondents are younger, more likely to be female, and more likely to identify as LGBTQ+ than the Black population as a whole. The Black Census sample has a higher educational attainment than the adult Black population nationally (nearly a fifth has earned an advanced degree), yet respondents report slightly lower household income than the typical Black household and are less likely to be homeowners—factors which may be related to the relative youth of Black Census respondents. These divergences illuminate the differences within the Black community, enabling the Census to include communities that are often left out and to understand the diversity of the Black community in ways that traditional surveys often fail to capture. This section provides a look at who Black Census respondents are demographically, and how respondents compare to the national adult Black population. The Black Census respondents on average are younger than the adult Black population nationally. Respondents ranged from 18 to 99 years old (the highest allowable age entry), but had a median age of 38. The median age for the adult Black population nationally is 43.2 Nearly 60 percent of the Black Census respondents are Black women. It is widely recognized—if often taken for granted—that Black women are a crucial component of political and electoral organizing in Black communities.3 Black Census respondents are also much more likely to report being lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender than are the respondents of other surveys. Fifteen (14.5) percent of Black Census respondents report being LGBT, while in other surveys about 4 to 5 percent of the adult population of all races report the same.4 The 14.5 LGBT percentage in the Black Census does not include all of those who report “other” for their sexual orientation, or “gender non-conforming” or “different” for their gender.5 The LGBT percentage plus these other categories total 18.5 percent.

Lemme explain the significance of this.... Black America is NOT 18.5% LGBT plus "other categories".. This is like affirmative action for diversity within a diversity... And one of the implications of that is that this slants the weighting of the survey to URBAN highly leftist communities...

So THEIR interpretation is purposely SPIKING some groups for political correctness is JUSTIFIED because these groups are "usually under-represented".... Which is the truth if you're LOOKING FOR AN ACCURATE "opinion of the Black American community".. But this is not scientific or even representative of opinion on ANYTHING if you can't set up a sample population without RIGGING it for "diversity considerations".....

Don't explain anything. The only thing you want this survey to say is that blacks are the cause of our own problems and racism has nothing to do with it. There is nothing wrong with the methodology and this census was filled out by over 30,000 people. What the stats reflect is what the people filled out.

 

[flacaltenn]

Also in their methodology section there's no map of what parts of the Black nation were covered. And there's this troubling bit.

One of the most striking differences between Black Census respondents and the Black population as a whole is the degree of engagement with elections and the electoral process. In 2018, 85.6 percent of Black Census respondents were registered to vote, 20.3 percentage points higher than for the population of Black adults nationally.8 In the 2016 election, 73.5 percent of the Black Census respondents voted, 17.6 percentage points higher than for Black adults nationally.9 The next section explores electoral engagement among Black


When you come right out and STATE that this poll does not represent the Black Population as a whole, it's like putting ketchup on a Filet Mignon... AND -- it's not really a scientifically or mathemathically accurate picture of "what Black people think"...

Since 2/3 of their correspondents replied on-line, that means vetting probably wasn't that good as with ALL internet polling, and that it favors Blacks who are super politically active over the majority that ain't....

BUT MAYBE -- all they are interested in is the folks who are active dononrs and volunteers BECAUSE their mission is ORGANIZING communities, not polling...

It's like those phony as shit polls I get from the DNC and RNC that really only want my time and money... NOT my opinions..

 

[flacaltenn]

Diversity of Political Affiliation

While only 2 percent of Black Census respondents identify politically as Republicans, the remainder are not all Democrats. Nearly a quarter identify as independents. About 60 percent identify as Democrats. Another 6 percent have allegiance to some other political party.

Black Census respondents are more positive toward the Democratic Party than the Republican Party, but nearly a fifth have unfavorable views toward the Democratic Party. The Democratic Party has a net favorability rating (favorable percentage minus unfavorable percentage) of 43 percent, much better than the Republican Party’s net favorability rating of minus 67 percent. However, if one compares the Democratic Party’s 43 percent net favorability rating to the NAACP’s 60 percent, it becomes clear that there is room for improvement in the Democratic Party in the eyes of the respondents.

As for you people waiting for the opinions of black conservatives in the hopes they'll say something that validates what you want to believe about black people, you will probably be sorely disappointed. Furthermore no one asks any of you when you post your racism whether you ask people who are liberal or non racist. The information in this thread is about the concerns of the black community as seen by blacks. Not by ideology and certainly not issues that whites think we should consider.

Nationwide -- the percent that have ABANDONED both parties is around 46% and growing.. So there's no nothing "black" about realizing that the 2 main parties are useless and unworthy of support..

Then there's this from the methodology section of the Census...

Because traditional surveys too often erase the diverse experiences of Black people and particular segments of the Black community, the Black Census Project intentionally oversampled certain populations: Black Census respondents are younger, more likely to be female, and more likely to identify as LGBTQ+ than the Black population as a whole. The Black Census sample has a higher educational attainment than the adult Black population nationally (nearly a fifth has earned an advanced degree), yet respondents report slightly lower household income than the typical Black household and are less likely to be homeowners—factors which may be related to the relative youth of Black Census respondents. These divergences illuminate the differences within the Black community, enabling the Census to include communities that are often left out and to understand the diversity of the Black community in ways that traditional surveys often fail to capture. This section provides a look at who Black Census respondents are demographically, and how respondents compare to the national adult Black population. The Black Census respondents on average are younger than the adult Black population nationally. Respondents ranged from 18 to 99 years old (the highest allowable age entry), but had a median age of 38. The median age for the adult Black population nationally is 43.2 Nearly 60 percent of the Black Census respondents are Black women. It is widely recognized—if often taken for granted—that Black women are a crucial component of political and electoral organizing in Black communities.3 Black Census respondents are also much more likely to report being lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender than are the respondents of other surveys. Fifteen (14.5) percent of Black Census respondents report being LGBT, while in other surveys about 4 to 5 percent of the adult population of all races report the same.4 The 14.5 LGBT percentage in the Black Census does not include all of those who report “other” for their sexual orientation, or “gender non-conforming” or “different” for their gender.5 The LGBT percentage plus these other categories total 18.5 percent.

Lemme explain the significance of this.... Black America is NOT 18.5% LGBT plus "other categories".. This is like affirmative action for diversity within a diversity... And one of the implications of that is that this slants the weighting of the survey to URBAN highly leftist communities...

So THEIR interpretation is purposely SPIKING some groups for political correctness is JUSTIFIED because these groups are "usually under-represented".... Which is the truth if you're LOOKING FOR AN ACCURATE "opinion of the Black American community".. But this is not scientific or even representative of opinion on ANYTHING if you can't set up a sample population without RIGGING it for "diversity considerations".....

Don't explain anything. The only thing you want this survey to say is that blacks are the cause of our own problems and racism has nothing to do with it. There is nothing wrong with the methodology and this census was filled out by over 30,000 people. What the stats reflect is what the people filled out.

So how are you IGNORING their admissions that in MANY WAYS -- this "poll" is NOT an accurate representation of Black American opinion in general??

These folks are only interested in the ENGAGED voters... Their interest is not in scientifically polling "what black people think"....

 

[emilynghiem]

1. RE Post to MB: "It would appear those are the things you want. Because you keep trying to tell me about black people . But I am black and face things blacks actually face. But according to you the issues I see as an actual black person cannot be. I must only accept what you say the issues are. And if I don't then I am the one who doesn't want understanding."

2. "Emily, no other race of people in America have done what whites have done and continue doing. All your attempts to make equivalences only allows racists to deny their problem."

Now we are REALLY getting to the point, IM2, thank you for clarifying and pushing the meaning and reasons behind what you say.

1. NOBODY should really expect to tell ANYONE their business.
You are not them. They are not you.

As one of my friends explained it "neurologically" as an atheist/humanist/relativist to an EXTREME,
each individual develops such intricate unique brain patterns conditioned with LANGUAGE and EXPERIENCES
that we can barely understand each other, we process information so differently.
It's amazing we communicate at all, and no wonder we conflict because of the sheer numbers of combinations
of "neural impulses" that can't POSSIBLY match up.

NOTE: this applies back to itself, IM2
Once "I am not you" then however YOU voice and express your objections,
even if it is nowhere NEAR the way "I would SAY the same thing"
that's your way that means something to you that NOBODY ELSE
on the PLANET, in the UNIVERSE, or any place in history or ETERNITY,
can replicate understand or "dictate" because NOBODY ELSE IS YOU.

Thus, you and anyone else, are NOT going to perfectly understand.
And if you already have this mode of addressing and talking with people,
including already clash with people who can't stand the way you say it,
that's not going to change "by talking to you outside your stated conditions."

2. As for "no other race in America doing what whites have done"
A. Neither has the good (or bad) that European descendants/Caucasians have done
been done by anyone else.
B. Neither has the good (or bad) that Black individuals have done been done by anyone else.
THIS ISN'T ABOUT FALSE EQUIVALENCIES

It's about taking EACH INDIVIDUAL PERSON and talking about what THAT PERSON does that is good or bad.
And if it is bad, how do we CORRECT the bad problem instead of "judging the person or group".
Bad problems involve FACTORS that can be corrected.

Race cannot be changed, it is genetic,
if you are saying the race is the problem, how is race causing that.
How is it genetics of the Chromosomes causing the criticized outcomes and behavior?

Wouldn't you say the conditioning, prejudice, or oppressive behavior and attitude
is in the mind or spirit, or is in societal institutions?

If so, THOSE CAN BE RESOLVED, and patterns from the past CAUSED by these factors
CAN BE CHANGED to be corrected and prevented, including restitution to restore justice.

3. Whatever problems you have with "white people dominating others" and "imposing their biases" and "justifying the same disparity to continue"
ALL THAT IS CAUSED BY INDIVIDUAL MINDSETS AND INSTITUTIONAL CONDITIONS THAT CAN CHANGE

It isn't the "race" in itself, but some CONDITIONING you are saying
such PEOPLE are carrying. This effects INDIVIDUALS first, and COLLECTIVELY
it affects "whole groups". The way human nature accepts change, the individuals
FORGIVE and let go of past patterns to ACCEPT and RECEIVE change and growth.

This starts in the mind or spirit of the person INDIVIDUALLY, then affects RELATIONS with others,
AND THEN IT AFFECTS THE COLLECTIVE INSTITUTIONS in a replicating ripple effect.

Do you understand I am NOT justifying or saying "it doesn't matter" or "it's all the same"

I'm saying it's the opposite: IT DOES MATTER BECAUSE
NO INDIVIDUALS ARE THE SAME.
WE ALL HAVE TO GO THROUGH THIS SAME PROCESS TO CHANGE INSTITUTIONS.

So if you want "white people" and "white biases in institutions" to change,
it takes breaking down these "collective entities" back to
INDIVIDUAL INTERACTIONS ONE ON ONE.
Then people INCLUDING WHITES can take responsibility for changing themselves.

NOTE: IM2 if this is NOT your way, of "breaking things down to the individual molecules," you are right, that may be YOUR way because you are Black and you communicate COLLECTIVELY with your brothers and sisters in the struggle that only YOU understand and CAN REPRESENT.

if it's just more "white people way" to address "one on one" and take things "individually"
while grouping "collective perceptions" in a TOTALLY DIFFERENT WAY (including "false equivalencies")
then THAT IS NOT YOUR WAY.

So by this very dynamic, your way is uniquely you.
You call it being Black and part of that Black collective dynamic.

I see it as you individually expressing and just being you, including this as part of YOU.
So that's my "white cultural thinking" spelled out
in "Asian Emily" terms, where I mix both the "collective mentality" with the "individual unique language"
and likely offend both sides by trying to pick both apart
down to the molecules where I can understand them
from MY individual way, which is a mix of different cultures as well.

Thank you for accommodating my different way on here
that has some of the same elements as the "white people's way"
Sorry about that

The difference with me, individually as Emily, is that I FORGIVE whatever ways
you have and these other "white people" have that so offend and contradict each other.

I forgive that anyway, because I understand you have your own way of seeing and saying things, and so do they. And your language and meaning totally step on and impose on each other.

I think it's also a MALE thing, where men's responses are conditioned to
PROTECT THEIR TURF FROM OTHER MALE DOMINANCE
So there's THAT FACTOR going on as well.

I am guessing all of the "white or black" MEN on here would end up clashing more
with other MEN regardless of race, but part of that is GENDER.

You can't CHANGE the fact you are MALE
so that's another level to forgive.

Thank you for sharing and I hope you get more mileage out of this
thread than you asked or expected. We need more people like you
willing to spell it all out and share resources and information to bridge these gaps.

Keep up the informative posts, and transparent clarifications
that really help. Take care and I'll see you on the other side
of this barrier you are working to take down. Best wishes
and you have my support to keep fighting the good fight,
and overcoming any obstacles you face in this struggle.

Thanks!

No Emily it's not about being male. Some of the fiercest warriors against white racism have been black women. Ask Gladys. This nation was built on the idea of the collective while those in the controlling collective lied to themselves about individualism. We are talking about a macro level problem and individualism is a micro level belief.

Okay IM2 so when it comes to
A. Collective groups
1. White vs. Black it's all the fault of the Whites
(except with #3 Conservatives then Black Conservatives are abusive)
2. Men vs. Women it's BOTH (as long as they are White or Conservative)
3. Conservatives vs. liberals it's the Conservatives who are oppressive (whether they are Black or White, or Men or Women)

Is this what you are saying?

B. "Individualism" vs. Individuals
1. Whites abuse and lie about "individualism" when it is used COLLECTIVELY
2. What about working one on one with people INDIVIDUALLY.
This is not the same as making blanket generalizations using "individualism"

Can we break down "individualism"
into PARTICULAR cases where a person INDIVIDUALLY either
(a) makes a FALSE GENERALIZATION lying about or abusing "individualism"
(b) is actually fair in working one on one with oneself and another person
so this is actually treating both people with equal respect as individuals

Thank you IM2

Emily, I am only going to reply to your first comment because you are off topic.

Right wing blacks do nothing for progress in the black community. Second laws and public policy through the history of this nation have been made by whites that have caused the problems blacks/non-whites face today.

This is a hard cold fact.

I have posted concerns held by the black community and as usual I get the stupid. So if you don't want to discuss the specific concerns, feel free to start your own thread..

Dear IM2
I'd let Gladys House and you talk this out.
It seems the DIVISION between conservatives blacks
is surely crippling the ability to do more for the community.

I haven't been able to figure out ALL the factors causing immobilization.

You shot down gender as one, but another BLACK MALE
ROBERT DUBOSE WHO IS NOT CONSERVATIVE
pinpointed men's biases against Gladys as blocking progress.

Would you like NONCONSERVATIVE BLACK MAN
ROBERT DUBOSE to come on here and tell you himself?

Gladys and Sheila Jackson Lee got into a fight over
who wasn't doing anything to help.

If you and my Mgr a BLACK MAN WHO IS NOT CONSERVATIVE
can talk with Gladys House and SJL maybe you can work it out
better.

I trust you on that.
And sorry to interject until then but it's only temporary until you
ROBERT DUBOSE, GLADYS HOUSE
AND OTHER BLACKS WHO ARE NOT CONSERVATIVE
connect up DIRECTLY AS YOU REQUIRE and solve these problems
WITHOUT IMPOSITION BY CONSERVATIVE POLITICS.

THANK YOU and sorry for unintended imposition

 

[flacaltenn]

Does that mean the overriding bias is POLITICAL?

In the case of the politically active like the OP -- that's the case...

I noticed IM2 made a clear distinction in how "Black Conservatives"
treat fellow Blacks.

The larger abuse is how the left fringe in Black America just disembowels each and every Black Conservative that pops their head up....

 

[emilynghiem]

Does that mean the overriding bias is POLITICAL?

In the case of the politically active like the OP -- that's the case...

I noticed IM2 made a clear distinction in how "Black Conservatives"
treat fellow Blacks.

The larger abuse is how the left fringe in Black America just disembowels each and every Black Conservative that pops their head up....

Well flacaltenn

According to Robert DuBose a Black man who is not Conservative
he blamed the lack of united leadership in Freedmen's Town on the problem that
two of the top respected Black Male Leaders (both not Conservative)
had with Gladys House, blaming it on male/female dynamics gone wrong.
DuBose found Gladys to be ready for changes and leadership, but found the
two men to be woefully behind socially in not being able to get over dynamics
with Gladys that HE assessed as a GENDER conflict issue (while IM2 doesn't
think that makes a difference, but blames political bias from Conservative influence).

IM2 took exception with me blaming Sheila Jackson Lee when actually I'm the one supporting and encouraging Gladys House to work with her to unite support on the restoration and development plans for Freedmen's Town, while

IM2 takes exception to "Black Conservatives" although Gladys House identifies as Republican but finds herself treated more in the way IM2 complains with "Blacks getting treated by Conservative Blacks". Gladys House also frames "racism" as rooted in white privilege, where only Whites can be racist by defining racism by that paradigm in the first place. So this would appear to match IM2.

If IM2 is so focused on Black only leadership without interjecting or imposing by Whites outside that paradigm, I totally support Gladys House and IM2 working DIRECTLY together to untangle this deadlock and align on common goals of Black leadership. I'm more than happy to get out of the way, so IM2 can work directly with Gladys, SJL and others who NEED that unity that IM2 is focused on.

More power to them. Perhaps IM2 rejection of anyone else but Black leadership will force those leaders to unite and finally get support to invest in their own plans
and not have to fight these other battles just complicating the politics worse!

 

[flacaltenn]

I got about 8 pages into this survey and got the general picture.. When you ASK folks SIMPLY if they want FREE STUFF -- the answer is ALWAYS yes.. And governance and political leadership to this org is all about the "free stuff"...

Who doesn't want free college, free healthcare, and $30/hour?? The only way to get REAL answers to this litany of pandering with $trillion handouts is to ask --- WHAT WOULD YOU GIVE UP to pay for these things?

When it gets into "Climate Justice" --- I'm pretty much out of here... Because it sucks to even CONTEMPLATE that meaning when there are far more imminent and life-threatening problems to THESE generations -- right now today...

 

[IM2]

Also in their methodology section there's no map of what parts of the Black nation were covered. And there's this troubling bit.

One of the most striking differences between Black Census respondents and the Black population as a whole is the degree of engagement with elections and the electoral process. In 2018, 85.6 percent of Black Census respondents were registered to vote, 20.3 percentage points higher than for the population of Black adults nationally.8 In the 2016 election, 73.5 percent of the Black Census respondents voted, 17.6 percentage points higher than for Black adults nationally.9 The next section explores electoral engagement among Black


When you come right out and STATE that this poll does not represent the Black Population as a whole, it's like putting ketchup on a Filet Mignon... AND -- it's not really a scientifically or mathemathically accurate picture of "what Black people think"...

Since 2/3 of their correspondents replied on-line, that means vetting probably wasn't that good as with ALL internet polling, and that it favors Blacks who are super politically active over the majority that ain't....

BUT MAYBE -- all they are interested in is the folks who are active dononrs and volunteers BECAUSE their mission is ORGANIZING communities, not polling...

It's like those phony as shit polls I get from the DNC and RNC that really only want my time and money... NOT my opinions..

Can anyone say RACIST...WHITE...DOUBLE....STANDARD?

 

[flacaltenn]

Also in their methodology section there's no map of what parts of the Black nation were covered. And there's this troubling bit.

One of the most striking differences between Black Census respondents and the Black population as a whole is the degree of engagement with elections and the electoral process. In 2018, 85.6 percent of Black Census respondents were registered to vote, 20.3 percentage points higher than for the population of Black adults nationally.8 In the 2016 election, 73.5 percent of the Black Census respondents voted, 17.6 percentage points higher than for Black adults nationally.9 The next section explores electoral engagement among Black


When you come right out and STATE that this poll does not represent the Black Population as a whole, it's like putting ketchup on a Filet Mignon... AND -- it's not really a scientifically or mathemathically accurate picture of "what Black people think"...

Since 2/3 of their correspondents replied on-line, that means vetting probably wasn't that good as with ALL internet polling, and that it favors Blacks who are super politically active over the majority that ain't....

BUT MAYBE -- all they are interested in is the folks who are active dononrs and volunteers BECAUSE their mission is ORGANIZING communities, not polling...

It's like those phony as shit polls I get from the DNC and RNC that really only want my time and money... NOT my opinions..

Can anyone say RACIST...WHITE...DOUBLE....STANDARD?

Say what? WhereTF did that come from? I'm discussing the EXACT content of your "important" poll.....

 

[IM2]

Diversity of Political Affiliation

While only 2 percent of Black Census respondents identify politically as Republicans, the remainder are not all Democrats. Nearly a quarter identify as independents. About 60 percent identify as Democrats. Another 6 percent have allegiance to some other political party.

Black Census respondents are more positive toward the Democratic Party than the Republican Party, but nearly a fifth have unfavorable views toward the Democratic Party. The Democratic Party has a net favorability rating (favorable percentage minus unfavorable percentage) of 43 percent, much better than the Republican Party’s net favorability rating of minus 67 percent. However, if one compares the Democratic Party’s 43 percent net favorability rating to the NAACP’s 60 percent, it becomes clear that there is room for improvement in the Democratic Party in the eyes of the respondents.

As for you people waiting for the opinions of black conservatives in the hopes they'll say something that validates what you want to believe about black people, you will probably be sorely disappointed. Furthermore no one asks any of you when you post your racism whether you ask people who are liberal or non racist. The information in this thread is about the concerns of the black community as seen by blacks. Not by ideology and certainly not issues that whites think we should consider.

Nationwide -- the percent that have ABANDONED both parties is around 46% and growing.. So there's no nothing "black" about realizing that the 2 main parties are useless and unworthy of support..

Then there's this from the methodology section of the Census...

Because traditional surveys too often erase the diverse experiences of Black people and particular segments of the Black community, the Black Census Project intentionally oversampled certain populations: Black Census respondents are younger, more likely to be female, and more likely to identify as LGBTQ+ than the Black population as a whole. The Black Census sample has a higher educational attainment than the adult Black population nationally (nearly a fifth has earned an advanced degree), yet respondents report slightly lower household income than the typical Black household and are less likely to be homeowners—factors which may be related to the relative youth of Black Census respondents. These divergences illuminate the differences within the Black community, enabling the Census to include communities that are often left out and to understand the diversity of the Black community in ways that traditional surveys often fail to capture. This section provides a look at who Black Census respondents are demographically, and how respondents compare to the national adult Black population. The Black Census respondents on average are younger than the adult Black population nationally. Respondents ranged from 18 to 99 years old (the highest allowable age entry), but had a median age of 38. The median age for the adult Black population nationally is 43.2 Nearly 60 percent of the Black Census respondents are Black women. It is widely recognized—if often taken for granted—that Black women are a crucial component of political and electoral organizing in Black communities.3 Black Census respondents are also much more likely to report being lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender than are the respondents of other surveys. Fifteen (14.5) percent of Black Census respondents report being LGBT, while in other surveys about 4 to 5 percent of the adult population of all races report the same.4 The 14.5 LGBT percentage in the Black Census does not include all of those who report “other” for their sexual orientation, or “gender non-conforming” or “different” for their gender.5 The LGBT percentage plus these other categories total 18.5 percent.

Lemme explain the significance of this.... Black America is NOT 18.5% LGBT plus "other categories".. This is like affirmative action for diversity within a diversity... And one of the implications of that is that this slants the weighting of the survey to URBAN highly leftist communities...

So THEIR interpretation is purposely SPIKING some groups for political correctness is JUSTIFIED because these groups are "usually under-represented".... Which is the truth if you're LOOKING FOR AN ACCURATE "opinion of the Black American community".. But this is not scientific or even representative of opinion on ANYTHING if you can't set up a sample population without RIGGING it for "diversity considerations".....

Don't explain anything. The only thing you want this survey to say is that blacks are the cause of our own problems and racism has nothing to do with it. There is nothing wrong with the methodology and this census was filled out by over 30,000 people. What the stats reflect is what the people filled out.

So how are you IGNORING their admissions that in MANY WAYS -- this "poll" is NOT an accurate representation of Black American opinion in general??

These folks are only interested in the ENGAGED voters... Their interest is not in scientifically polling "what black people think"....

Flacaltenn you are going to try looking for fault in anything that does conclude what whites want to conclude.

To conduct the Census, the Black Futures Lab worked in partnership with more than 30 grassroots organizations serving Black communities nationwide. The Black Futures Lab also partnered with 2 of the largest online civil rights organizations serving Black communities and their allies— PushBlack and Color of Change. As a result, the Black Census includes populations that are usually not represented or are underrepresented in traditional surveys, such as homeless people, incarcerated people, LGBTQ people, Black Republicans and conservatives, Black immigrants, and mixed-raced people with a Black parent, among others. The Black Census is not a traditional probabilistic survey sample, which often fails to fully represent populations whose experiences are important to understanding the complexity of Black life. Instead, the Black Census utilized unique survey collection methods that drew on robust online networks and sent local organizers into Black businesses, churches, libraries, barbershops and other community gathering places from North Carolina to Nevada, providing a rare and important opportunity to hear and learn from voices too often at the margins of America’s political debate.

 

[IM2]

Also in their methodology section there's no map of what parts of the Black nation were covered. And there's this troubling bit.

One of the most striking differences between Black Census respondents and the Black population as a whole is the degree of engagement with elections and the electoral process. In 2018, 85.6 percent of Black Census respondents were registered to vote, 20.3 percentage points higher than for the population of Black adults nationally.8 In the 2016 election, 73.5 percent of the Black Census respondents voted, 17.6 percentage points higher than for Black adults nationally.9 The next section explores electoral engagement among Black


When you come right out and STATE that this poll does not represent the Black Population as a whole, it's like putting ketchup on a Filet Mignon... AND -- it's not really a scientifically or mathemathically accurate picture of "what Black people think"...

Since 2/3 of their correspondents replied on-line, that means vetting probably wasn't that good as with ALL internet polling, and that it favors Blacks who are super politically active over the majority that ain't....

BUT MAYBE -- all they are interested in is the folks who are active dononrs and volunteers BECAUSE their mission is ORGANIZING communities, not polling...

It's like those phony as shit polls I get from the DNC and RNC that really only want my time and money... NOT my opinions..

Can anyone say RACIST...WHITE...DOUBLE....STANDARD?

Say what? WhereTF did that come from? I'm discussing the EXACT content of your "important" poll.....

Your post.

 

[emilynghiem]

Also in their methodology section there's no map of what parts of the Black nation were covered. And there's this troubling bit.

One of the most striking differences between Black Census respondents and the Black population as a whole is the degree of engagement with elections and the electoral process. In 2018, 85.6 percent of Black Census respondents were registered to vote, 20.3 percentage points higher than for the population of Black adults nationally.8 In the 2016 election, 73.5 percent of the Black Census respondents voted, 17.6 percentage points higher than for Black adults nationally.9 The next section explores electoral engagement among Black


When you come right out and STATE that this poll does not represent the Black Population as a whole, it's like putting ketchup on a Filet Mignon... AND -- it's not really a scientifically or mathemathically accurate picture of "what Black people think"...

Since 2/3 of their correspondents replied on-line, that means vetting probably wasn't that good as with ALL internet polling, and that it favors Blacks who are super politically active over the majority that ain't....

BUT MAYBE -- all they are interested in is the folks who are active dononrs and volunteers BECAUSE their mission is ORGANIZING communities, not polling...

It's like those phony as shit polls I get from the DNC and RNC that really only want my time and money... NOT my opinions..

Can anyone say RACIST...WHITE...DOUBLE....STANDARD?

Dear IM2 and flacaltenn
this could go back and forth or in circles on areas of disagreement and conflict

I'm more interested in what this thread would produce
where points actually INTERSECT and connect on
directions toward SOLUTIONS that won't be in any conflict

REAL solutions won't trigger:
Black vs White conflicts
Conservative vs. other group conflicts
Male/Male or Male/Female conflicts
Racism, Individualism or other False Equivalency issues

Can we focus on the key points that are so critical
to all views they transcend all the above ^

What are the best points in IM2 posts
that we gain and make the most of.

ie, Minus anything off target that distracts from those.

 

[IM2]

I got about 8 pages into this survey and got the general picture.. When you ASK folks SIMPLY if they want FREE STUFF -- the answer is ALWAYS yes.. And governance and political leadership to this org is all about the "free stuff"...

Who doesn't want free college, free healthcare, and $30/hour?? The only way to get REAL answers to this litany of pandering with $trillion handouts is to ask --- WHAT WOULD YOU GIVE UP to pay for these things?

When it gets into "Climate Justice" --- I'm pretty much out of here... Because it sucks to even CONTEMPLATE that meaning when there are far more imminent and life-threatening problems to THESE generations -- right now today...

And here he goes with his standard racist drivel. Fool, climate is the most pressing issue right now today. When will whites like you who ask for free shit all the time stop talking stupid.

 

[flacaltenn]

Flacaltenn you are going to try looking for fault in anything that does conclude what whites want to conclude.

How is it you can possibly make this even racial?? If the topic was market investing -- I believe you could make THAT racial also if you didn't want to defend your assertions...

So the topic is just another poll.. And SOMEHOW -- this is racial because I QUOTE the methodology they used and point out this poll is NOT representative of Black America as a whole?>???

AND this organization ADMITS THAT multiple times in their first couple pages and this make ME A racist???

 

[flacaltenn]

I got about 8 pages into this survey and got the general picture.. When you ASK folks SIMPLY if they want FREE STUFF -- the answer is ALWAYS yes.. And governance and political leadership to this org is all about the "free stuff"...

Who doesn't want free college, free healthcare, and $30/hour?? The only way to get REAL answers to this litany of pandering with $trillion handouts is to ask --- WHAT WOULD YOU GIVE UP to pay for these things?

When it gets into "Climate Justice" --- I'm pretty much out of here... Because it sucks to even CONTEMPLATE that meaning when there are far more imminent and life-threatening problems to THESE generations -- right now today...

And here he goes with his standard racist drivel. Fool, climate is the most pressing issue right now today. When will whites like you who ask for free shit all the time stop talking stupid.

Really? How hot is it gonna be in 2100? It's warmed about 0.8DegC in your lifetime give or take a 1/10 of a degree.. Is that somehow killing a lot of inner city people???

 

[IM2]

Also in their methodology section there's no map of what parts of the Black nation were covered. And there's this troubling bit.

One of the most striking differences between Black Census respondents and the Black population as a whole is the degree of engagement with elections and the electoral process. In 2018, 85.6 percent of Black Census respondents were registered to vote, 20.3 percentage points higher than for the population of Black adults nationally.8 In the 2016 election, 73.5 percent of the Black Census respondents voted, 17.6 percentage points higher than for Black adults nationally.9 The next section explores electoral engagement among Black


When you come right out and STATE that this poll does not represent the Black Population as a whole, it's like putting ketchup on a Filet Mignon... AND -- it's not really a scientifically or mathemathically accurate picture of "what Black people think"...

Since 2/3 of their correspondents replied on-line, that means vetting probably wasn't that good as with ALL internet polling, and that it favors Blacks who are super politically active over the majority that ain't....

BUT MAYBE -- all they are interested in is the folks who are active dononrs and volunteers BECAUSE their mission is ORGANIZING communities, not polling...

It's like those phony as shit polls I get from the DNC and RNC that really only want my time and money... NOT my opinions..

Can anyone say RACIST...WHITE...DOUBLE....STANDARD?

Dear IM2 and flacaltenn
this could go back and forth or in circles on areas of disagreement and conflict

I'm more interested in what this thread would produce
where points actually INTERSECT and connect on
directions toward SOLUTIONS that won't be in any conflict

REAL solutions won't trigger:
Black vs White conflicts
Conservative vs. other group conflicts
Male/Male or Male/Female conflicts
Racism, Individualism or other False Equivalency issues

Can we focus on the key points that are so critical
to all views they transcend all the above ^

What are the best points in IM2 posts
that we gain and make the most of.

ie, Minus anything off target that distracts from those.

Emily anything we blacks suggest will trigger white/black conflicts because whites like flacaltenn thinks he knows better what blacks need than black people do. I cannot tell you what it's like to be pregnant no matter how many children I have seen being born, books I have read or opinions from women I have heard. But flacaltenn thinks he knows what blacks need to do because he listens and reads stuff from black conservative elites.

 

[IM2]

Flacaltenn you are going to try looking for fault in anything that does conclude what whites want to conclude.

How is it you can possibly make this even racial?? If the topic was market investing -- I believe you could make THAT racial also if you didn't want to defend your assertions...

So the topic is just another poll.. And SOMEHOW -- this is racial because I QUOTE the methodology they used and point out this poll is NOT representative of Black America as a whole?>???

AND this organization ADMITS THAT multiple times in their first couple pages and this make ME A racist???

First off the subject is racial. Second you applied a double standard to this study you would not have if this was a white conservative study. Third, you are racist.

This organization did not admit what you claim.

To conduct the Census, the Black Futures Lab worked in partnership with more than 30 grassroots organizations serving Black communities nationwide. The Black Futures Lab also partnered with 2 of the largest online civil rights organizations serving Black communities and their allies— PushBlack and Color of Change. As a result, the Black Census includes populations that are usually not represented or are underrepresented in traditional surveys, such as homeless people, incarcerated people, LGBTQ people, Black Republicans and conservatives, Black immigrants, and mixed-raced people with a Black parent, among others. The Black Census is not a traditional probabilistic survey sample, which often fails to fully represent populations whose experiences are important to understanding the complexity of Black life. Instead, the Black Census utilized unique survey collection methods that drew on robust online networks and sent local organizers into Black businesses, churches, libraries, barbershops and other community gathering places from North Carolina to Nevada, providing a rare and important opportunity to hear and learn from voices too often at the margins of America’s political debate.

 

[IM2]

I got about 8 pages into this survey and got the general picture.. When you ASK folks SIMPLY if they want FREE STUFF -- the answer is ALWAYS yes.. And governance and political leadership to this org is all about the "free stuff"...

Who doesn't want free college, free healthcare, and $30/hour?? The only way to get REAL answers to this litany of pandering with $trillion handouts is to ask --- WHAT WOULD YOU GIVE UP to pay for these things?

When it gets into "Climate Justice" --- I'm pretty much out of here... Because it sucks to even CONTEMPLATE that meaning when there are far more imminent and life-threatening problems to THESE generations -- right now today...

And here he goes with his standard racist drivel. Fool, climate is the most pressing issue right now today. When will whites like you who ask for free shit all the time stop talking stupid.

Really? How hot is it gonna be in 2100? It's warmed about 0.8DegC in your lifetime give or take a 1/10 of a degree.. Is that somehow killing a lot of inner city people???

We just had around 600 tornadoes in the region I live in this week. Not to mention the thunderstorms and flooding. This is a result of climate. NOW. TODAY.

And since blacks don't just live in the inner cities, you have again displayed your racist ignorance.

 

[emilynghiem]

Also in their methodology section there's no map of what parts of the Black nation were covered. And there's this troubling bit.

One of the most striking differences between Black Census respondents and the Black population as a whole is the degree of engagement with elections and the electoral process. In 2018, 85.6 percent of Black Census respondents were registered to vote, 20.3 percentage points higher than for the population of Black adults nationally.8 In the 2016 election, 73.5 percent of the Black Census respondents voted, 17.6 percentage points higher than for Black adults nationally.9 The next section explores electoral engagement among Black


When you come right out and STATE that this poll does not represent the Black Population as a whole, it's like putting ketchup on a Filet Mignon... AND -- it's not really a scientifically or mathemathically accurate picture of "what Black people think"...

Since 2/3 of their correspondents replied on-line, that means vetting probably wasn't that good as with ALL internet polling, and that it favors Blacks who are super politically active over the majority that ain't....

BUT MAYBE -- all they are interested in is the folks who are active dononrs and volunteers BECAUSE their mission is ORGANIZING communities, not polling...

It's like those phony as shit polls I get from the DNC and RNC that really only want my time and money... NOT my opinions..

Can anyone say RACIST...WHITE...DOUBLE....STANDARD?

Dear IM2 and flacaltenn
this could go back and forth or in circles on areas of disagreement and conflict

I'm more interested in what this thread would produce
where points actually INTERSECT and connect on
directions toward SOLUTIONS that won't be in any conflict

REAL solutions won't trigger:
Black vs White conflicts
Conservative vs. other group conflicts
Male/Male or Male/Female conflicts
Racism, Individualism or other False Equivalency issues

Can we focus on the key points that are so critical
to all views they transcend all the above ^

What are the best points in IM2 posts
that we gain and make the most of.

ie, Minus anything off target that distracts from those.

Emily anything we blacks suggest will trigger white/black conflicts because whites like flacaltenn thinks he knows better what blacks need than black people do. I cannot tell you what it's like to be pregnant no matter how many children I have seen being born, books I have read or opinions from women I have heard. But flacaltenn thinks he knows what blacks need to do because he listens and reads stuff from black conservative elites.

IM2 you can call it White vs. Black, or it could be male vs. male

For all I know it was "FLACALTENN" (the individual) reading through that and finding a POLITICAL BIAS and you (as IM2) reading through his posts and finding
a WHITE/BLACK RACIAL bias.

NOTE: With your thread set up under your rules,
and this forum set up under rules not to argue with Mods about Moderation,
PLUS natural laws that neither you or I as free users are going to
have equal weight as the people working to provide free forum usage to others,
there's THAT dynamic going on as well.

Regardless of all those overlapping biases and dynamics,
I still see the point that the polls focus on "politically active" input
and this isn't perfectly representative if it leaves out other voices
that were eligible to be included.

You see that as "white justification to discount or discredit"
I see it as a specific point that doesn't NEGATE the value of the post.

Nothing is ever going to be PERFECTLY representative of the whole.
As long as you get out of it what you feel represents YOU,
I trust YOU to tell me that, regardless how imperfect or perfect the
material maybe. YOU tell me what YOU get out of it.
And others do the same. I listen to THEM as it applies to THEM.
I listen to YOU as it applies to YOU. So there is no conflict,
you BOTH tell me what represents YOU. Even if you get
totally different takes from the same material. It's about YOU
not picking you or the material apart, unless it helps me understand YOU.