There HAS to be life on other planets..

[22lcidw]

Out of the how many trillions of suns in the known universe?

The numbers are just to big to make any sort of prediction on how many forms of life there might be

The point is to say that there are likely other forms of life living on other planets. That we are not the only planet with life on it.

 

[Blues Man]

The point is to say that there are likely other forms of life living on other planets. That we are not the only planet with life on it.

And the point I am making is that life may be nothing like us.

 

[Flash]

Nope. Your assumptions are ignorant and unsophisticated.

"If we ever..." ?????????????????????? Naysayers of your ilk have been saying this about every discovery man has made -- before the discoveries were made. Your belief system(s) are being challenged, and you refuse to see what is right in front of you: facts, not supernatural beliefs.

I am not a naysayer.

I am an Engineer that learned a long time ago how to deal with science reality.

The reality:

1. We only know of life existing on earth

2. We have not been able to create life in a lab so we really don't know how Chemistry turns into Biology or what the conditions for it has to be.

3. Science Fiction is fiction and has no foundation in reality.

4. Statistics doesn't create life

5. "It just gotta be" is nothing more than wishful thinking and has no basis in reality.

Something may change in the future but that is where we are now.

 

[Foxfyre]

And the point I am making is that life may be nothing like us.

That is true. For sure any that have made it to planet Earth to observe us are eons ahead of us in technology. And I rather believe they intend us no harm for they certainly have the capability to destroy us.

I always liked the concept from the movie "Starman". The alien being was certainly unlike anything human and had to transform temporarily into human form in order to communicate with us. One particular line I especially thought provocative:

• Mark Shermin: Have people from your world been here before?
• Starman: Before yes. We are interested in your species.
• Mark Shermin: You mean you're some kind of anthropologist? Is that what you're doing here? Just checking us out?
• Starman: You are a strange species. Not like any other. And you'd be surprised how many there are. Intelligent but savage. . .”

Had he arrived in the 4th Century or earlier, I am pretty sure would have described humankind as intelligent but savage. But he arrived after we have evolved into a different kind of civilization where he could observe: " Shall I tell you what I find beautiful about you? ...You are at your very best when things are worst.”

Fiction, imaginative, fantasy of course. But very well perhaps prophetic.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I am not a naysayer.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I am not a naysayer.

I am an Engineer that learned a long time ago how to deal with science reality.

The reality:

1. We only know of life existing on earth

2. We have not been able to create life in a lab so we really don't know how Chemistry turns into Biology or what the conditions for it has to be.

3. Science Fiction is fiction and has no foundation in reality.

4. Statistics doesn't create life

5. "It just gotta be" is nothing more than wishful thinking and has no basis in reality.

Something may change in the future but that is where we are now.

Engineer? So? Engineers have been known to deny realities.

Arthur Butz - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Fred A. Leuchter - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

David Irving

David Irving was once treated with great respect for his historical tomes on World War II and Nazi Germany. But in recent years, the writer has become known as the world's most prominent Holocaust denier.

www.splcenter.org

1. True, with the caveat .. for now.

2. Has somebody tried to create life in a lab?

Life Evolves. Can Attempts to Create 'Artificial Life' Evolve, Too?

Do efforts to create life—by cooking up imitations in computers, robots and molecules—point toward a universal definition of biology?

www.scientificamerican.com

"In May 2010, a team of scientists led by Craig Venter became the first to create successfully what was described as "synthetic life""

3. Some science fiction has foundations in reality. Where the heck have you been living, and why bring up science fiction?

4. Another red herring?

5. I've never said "It's just gotta be" so again, wtf r u yappin bout?

Where we are now is you being well know as a naysayer.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

The point is to say that there are likely other forms of life living on other planets. That we are not the only planet with life on it.

And the point I am making is that life may be nothing like us.

Life? Intelligent life? And did anyone here suggest any life found, would look like us?

I do know that if there were intelligent life traveling across the Universe in vehicles, it would have to look something like us. Why? Vehicles would have to be built. Tools would have to have been made.

But, that's a whole nother side conversation.

 

[Flash]

Is Dr. David Kipping of the Astronomy Department of Columbia University a "Naysayer"?

He is a very noted scientist that has done significant research in exoplanets that did those video I posted where he looked at the reality of there being no evidence.

He is self described as an "agnostic" because he just looks at the facts and not the popular culture. He rejects the "Its just gotta be" mentality as he looks at the real facts.

If you haven't looked at the videos I posted then you really need to do so. He goes into the details that I don't have the time to post on here. The first video I posted is a great introduction to the problems of assuming that life exist elsewhere.

The Cool World Lab is a great source of material to look at to get educated on the reality of extraterrestrial life.

I was actually in the camp of "its just gotta be" until I got educated on the reality. Now, like Dr. Kipping, I am an agnostic on the subject. Show me the money! Show me the life.

 

[Flash]

5. I've never said "It's just gotta be" so again, wtf r u yappin bout?

You can deny all you want but if you don't have proof of life elsewhere but yet believe that there is life then you are definitely in the "it just gotta be" camp because you don't have jackshit.

Turn off the Star Trek reruns and do a little research to find out what is reality. I have provided several videos in this thread to get you started.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Now, like Dr. Kipping, I am an agnostic on the subject.

Really? Is that how you see yourself?

You're a denier and naysayer.

next

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

You can deny all you want but if you don't have proof of life elsewhere but yet believe that there is life then you are definitely in the "it just gotta be" camp because you don't have jackshit.

Turn off the Star Trek reruns and do a little research to find out what is reality. I have provided several videos in this thread to get you started.

I've never suggest that factually there is life elsewhere, let alone intelligent life. Probabilities vs possibilities?

You keep arguing with some figment of your imagination. You keep attacking me for things I've never claimed.

I'd have to say, it looks like you stepped right out of Star Trek episode.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

You can deny all you want but if you don't have proof of life elsewhere but yet believe that there is life then you are definitely in the "it just gotta be" camp because you don't have jackshit.

Turn off the Star Trek reruns and do a little research to find out what is reality. I have provided several videos in this thread to get you started.

I have never been of the belief that intelligent life exists elsewhere. Yet, again who are you conversing with in your head? It's definitely not me.

Possibilities vs probabilities would lean towards life exists elsewhere. But that's a subject that would go off the rails very quickly with your type (who argues in their head with imaginary foes).

People can debate what 'life' has to look like, in order to be classified as life. But the idea that water and other stuff (stuff being a highly technical term here), exists out there suggests (not, it just gotta be), life of some kind has formed or can form.

 

[Flash]

I've never suggest that factually there is life elsewhere, let alone intelligent life. Probabilities vs possibilities?

You keep arguing with some figment of your imagination. You keep attacking me for things I've never claimed.

I'd have to say, it looks like you stepped right out of Star Trek episode.

I don't know what you have been bitching about. I have presented the facts as I know them. I have even listed the facts and they indisputable. I have given links to videos on the subject by scientists that are much better at explaining the facts than I am.

There is no other life in the universe as far as we know. We don't even know the conditions for life to get started from Chemistry. We have nothing of substance.

Until we get more information we have nothing but speculation and wishful thinking.

You need to go and look at the videos I posted. They are not videos posted by some nutjob. They are videos made by a noted scientist from Columbia University that explains the reality.

Also, I have a reading assignment for you. Go read the book "Rare Earth, Why Complex Life is Uncommon in the Universe" by Ward and Brownlee.

 

[ding]

And the point I am making is that life may be nothing like us.

I disagree. There are certain attributes that higher order biological life will logically possess.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

You need to...

Wrong.

 

[ThisIsMe]

Okay - maybe I got you wrong

As for "statistical probability" - so far there is only one planet with "known" lifeforms, Even Mars probes AFAIK could not come up with lifeforms, so how should one work out an equation?
The "thought" that other planets in an "infinite" universe, might harbor lifeforms - is just a thought. That seems to be based rather on wishful thinking, then on "evidence".

What is a "life-form" according to your definition? a microbe, an E coli cell?

As such the furthest human mankind might get one day - is to create/induce life on a "suitable" planet.

I have no evidence, and I’ve never claimed that I know there to be life elsewhere, my whole point of this thread is a thought experiment about the improbability that we are really alone in such a large and old universe. I don’t claim any evidence, other than the odds of us being the only ones to have emerged from evolution have to be fairly low. In my opinion.

There’s so much we don’t know about what is outside of our observable universe. Hell, there’s so much we don’t know about our own planet (the oceans).

 

[ThisIsMe]

They make advances in understanding abiogenesis all the time. Hopefully they will make more advances.

However, we have yet to create life. Until we do then we really don't understand the conditions on earth that led to life and what environment and conditions it needs to be elsewhere.

But that’s my point, why do WE have to understand how life was created for it to happen elsewhere? The fact that it did happen here means it could have just as easily happened elsewhere. Right?

 

[ThisIsMe]

You would think that as much as we know about chemistry and as much as we know about biology we would have been able to create life life in a lab a long time ago but we haven't been able to do it.

If we ever do that will tell us what the basic condition and elements for life are. Then we have to figure out how those things are brought together in Nature. It is one thing to do something in a lab and do the same thing on a primordial planet.

We have a lot more work to do.

But the conditions required to evolve life here may not have any relevance to what conditions might be needed elsewhere. Remember, we only evolved because we adapted and changed to survive in the conditions that were present. On another planet 5 trillion light years away, there may be a civilization who similarly adapted to THEIR environment to become what they are.

We’re not even sure if carbon is the only element needed for life. On that other planet a trillion light years away, there may be a different base element that formed them.

 

[ding]

But the conditions required to evolve life here may not have any relevance to what conditions might be needed elsewhere. Remember, we only evolved because we adapted and changed to survive in the conditions that were present. On another planet 5 trillion light years away, there may be a civilization who similarly adapted to THEIR environment to become what they are.

We’re not even sure if carbon is the only element needed for life. On that other planet a trillion light years away, there may be a different base element that formed them.

The only thing the conditions control is if and when life will arise. If they exist - given enough time - life will eventually arise and complexify until beings very similar to us exist.

 

[ding]

But that’s my point, why do WE have to understand how life was created for it to happen elsewhere? The fact that it did happen here means it could have just as easily happened elsewhere. Right?

We don't have to understand how life first emerged, and yes, it could and probably has or will occur somewhere else. But we can use what we know as proxies for predicting what that life might look like. And I believe it will be more similar to how life evolved here than, it will be dissimilar.