there is absolute truth without appeal to a deity

[G.T.]

I am not omniscient.

That is an absolute truth.

If I were, I'd know that I was as an all knowing entity.

 

[Pennywise]

Which has nothing to do with following a code of morality, which is really the utmost reasoning for people to have faith in a power higher than themselves, be it real or an invention of Man.

And that's the truth.

 

[G.T.]

Which has nothing to do with following a code of morality, which is really the utmost reasoning for people to have faith in a power higher than themselves, be it real or an invention of Man.

And that's the truth.

Codes of morality are constructs brought about my mutual coexistence and the observance thereof.

For instance,

-Survival is an instinct.
-Except for one (creature) at any given time, there is always someone bigger/stronger/more destructible then yourself.


Add the two together.

I don't want to die & I cannot always prevent my death at the hand of others through my own might alone, so for ample coexistence it should be codified that murder is wrong.

 

[Pennywise]

Which has nothing to do with following a code of morality, which is really the utmost reasoning for people to have faith in a power higher than themselves, be it real or an invention of Man.

And that's the truth.

Codes of morality are constructs brought about my mutual coexistence and the observance thereof.

For instance,

-Survival is an instinct.
-Except for one (creature) at any given time, there is always someone bigger/stronger/more destructible then yourself.


Add the two together.

I don't want to die & I cannot always prevent my death at the hand of others through my own might alone, so for ample coexistence it should be codified that murder is wrong.

The Ten Commandments is more explicitly controlling than that.

 

[G.T.]

Which has nothing to do with following a code of morality, which is really the utmost reasoning for people to have faith in a power higher than themselves, be it real or an invention of Man.

And that's the truth.

Codes of morality are constructs brought about my mutual coexistence and the observance thereof.

For instance,

-Survival is an instinct.
-Except for one (creature) at any given time, there is always someone bigger/stronger/more destructible then yourself.


Add the two together.

I don't want to die & I cannot always prevent my death at the hand of others through my own might alone, so for ample coexistence it should be codified that murder is wrong.

The Ten Commandments is more explicitly controlling than that.

The ten commandments came specifically FROM those observances.

 

[Pennywise]

Codes of morality are constructs brought about my mutual coexistence and the observance thereof.

For instance,

-Survival is an instinct.
-Except for one (creature) at any given time, there is always someone bigger/stronger/more destructible then yourself.


Add the two together.

I don't want to die & I cannot always prevent my death at the hand of others through my own might alone, so for ample coexistence it should be codified that murder is wrong.

The Ten Commandments is more explicitly controlling than that.

The ten commandments came specifically FROM those observances.

The first four did not, they are all about God and God does not figure into your hypothesis.

And for the record, I am agnostic.

 

[emilynghiem]

Dear Pennywise: the natural law of Reciprocity
applies first, whether someone prescribes to the Ten Commandments,
the Bill of Rights, or whatever code you commit to follow by conscience:

You get the justice you give.

Whatever laws you enforced for others, whatever judgments you issued,
you are held to the same as a consequence.

So if you take a Restorative Justice approach of correction and restitution,
with forgiveness and mercy but still with accountability, you get the same justice.

If you take a Retributive Justice approach of judgment and punishment,
rejection or coercion by political force, then you get this in return.

Does it matter if someone uses the Bible or Constitution?
Whatever language for the laws you identify with as your tribe,
you are responsible for answering for those laws and that tribe.
(* if you are Christian YES you are held to the Christian laws and interpretations you commit to live by
* if you are Muslim by the Muslim principles and teachings
* if you are atheist and use science, then your perceptions and words are judged by science
* if you are Buddhist or Constitutionalist, you follow those laws consistently or you will be corrected by them)
[MENTION=44683]Pennywise[/MENTION] if you do not believe in the Bible and aren't under those laws, they belong to other people not you. If you are under natural laws and Constitutional principles, then follow those: by religious freedom let others practice theirs freely -- don't impose on them and don't let them impose on you. Practice what you preach, and ask others likewise!

Which has nothing to do with following a code of morality, which is really the utmost reasoning for people to have faith in a power higher than themselves, be it real or an invention of Man.

And that's the truth.

Codes of morality are constructs brought about my mutual coexistence and the observance thereof.

For instance,

-Survival is an instinct.
-Except for one (creature) at any given time, there is always someone bigger/stronger/more destructible then yourself.

Add the two together.

I don't want to die & I cannot always prevent my death at the hand of others through my own might alone, so for ample coexistence it should be codified that murder is wrong.

The Ten Commandments is more explicitly controlling than that.

 

[G.T.]

The Ten Commandments is more explicitly controlling than that.

The ten commandments came specifically FROM those observances.

The first four did not, they are all about God and God does not figure into your hypothesis.

And for the record, I am agnostic.

I am agnostic as well.

God does factor in -

It was observed that an ample way to convince coexisting beings to follow the set of moral codes that we arrived at would be to create a god who demands it - with both rewards and punishments.

 

[PratchettFan]

I am not omniscient.

That is an absolute truth.

If I were, I'd know that I was as an all knowing entity.

How do I know you are not omniscient?

 

[G.T.]

I am not omniscient.

That is an absolute truth.

If I were, I'd know that I was as an all knowing entity.

How do I know you are not omniscient?

You cannot know that of me but you can know that of yourself.

 

[emilynghiem]

The Ten Commandments is more explicitly controlling than that.

The ten commandments came specifically FROM those observances.

The first four did not, they are all about God and God does not figure into your hypothesis.

And for the record, I am agnostic.

Dear Pennywise, if you are not called to be under Scriptural laws and authority of the Jews Christians and Muslims, then there is little sense in applying these laws to you.
That is as futile as taking Texas laws and applying to someone who lives in Alaska.
Hindu teachings and applying to a Muslim.

Whatever is your equivalent under natural/secular laws is what you are held to.

So if you believe in some Universal Truth as governing all humanity, that may be God to you. If you believe in the Universe and Creation has its built in laws, and nobody knows how this came into being but the universal laws exist for everyone, that may be God to you.

The point is to respect that all these universal laws come from or point to the same source.

if we can respect taht absolute and put it above all others,
then we don't get divided selfishly and political, trying to place
our idolized god over someone else's "representation" for these things.

So we are not to put our own religiously held beliefs or perceptions of truth
above those of any other person, group or tribe, but put the Universal level above all.

Is that a fair interpretation of the same concept?
Do you have another way of saying similar?

Whatever that is, this is likely the equivalent to you under natural laws
you may follow as a secular minded person who may not relate to the Biblical
way of saying these things in symbols of God and Jesus, etc.

The point is to focus on Universal Laws inherent/self-existent in Life.
You don't have to symbolize these in terms of a personified God
to be following the same concept by nature or conscience.
The Bible already explains there are gentiles who follow the content of the laws
by nature, by our conscience, and these are addressed separately by our own
understanding by natural laws, not necessarily using scriptural laws in the Bible.

The secular gentiles are a distinct branch, so of course our language is going to be different. Using nontheistic expressions of laws such as the Greek Ethics, Buddhist teachings on cause and effect and laws in the world, Constitutional laws based on human nature and natural laws of governance, science and social psychology, etc.

These are still valid expression of universal laws affecting all humanity.
The Bible represents that as a spiritual process using religious terms.
While others may use secular terms to describe social or spiritual development
of humanity to reach mature stages. It's the same process and people just
understand it in different ways using the laws of their tribe in order to organize by groups.

 

[PratchettFan]

I am not omniscient.

That is an absolute truth.

If I were, I'd know that I was as an all knowing entity.

How do I know you are not omniscient?

You cannot know that of me but you can know that of yourself.

But if I can't know it of you, then what makes it an absolute truth?

 

[G.T.]

How do I know you are not omniscient?

You cannot know that of me but you can know that of yourself.

But if I can't know it of you, then what makes it an absolute truth?

An absolute truth doesn't need to be known or unknown to be absolute, it just is.

I'll also posit to you that you can arrive at an absolute truth: you are or are not omniscient.

You (personally) can & do know that absolutely.

 

[sealybobo]

Which has nothing to do with following a code of morality, which is really the utmost reasoning for people to have faith in a power higher than themselves, be it real or an invention of Man.

And that's the truth.

God isn't necessary. We can teach our kids right from wrong without ever making up the story of god who has a lot of similarities to santa clause and the moral code/message behind that is to brainwsh kids into being nice not naughty. So you think we need the lie. I say this lie is no longer believable in today's society and still yet a lot of parents are teaching their kids right from wrong, even the atheist parents.

Whenever I think "how is christianity doing" I look at Amerikkkan kids bullying in school. What are their parents/preachers teaching them? This moral decay is the product/result of Christianity. But Christians can never lose. If their society falls apart it's because the society left god. What did George Carlin say about our politicians? Of course they are greedy, ignorant corrupt. Where do American politicians come from? American schools, churches, homes. Garbage in garbage out. And clearly the sheep of American christians are all gullible losers who are easily manipulated into voting against themselves financially and into war for $ that they'll never share. Support tax breaks they'll never get. The rich will continue to control/own us until we put god out of our heads. There is no god.

Don't blame the devil or atheists for your churches failures. And by the way when is god going to get it right? First he fucked up with Adam, then Noah, then Jesus and now we're waiting for Jesus to come back again because god can't get it right! Fucking retards.

 

[Pennywise]

Which has nothing to do with following a code of morality, which is really the utmost reasoning for people to have faith in a power higher than themselves, be it real or an invention of Man.

And that's the truth.

God isn't necessary. We can teach our kids right from wrong without ever making up the story of god who has a lot of similarities to santa clause and the moral code/message behind that is to brainwsh kids into being nice not naughty. So you think we need the lie. I say this lie is no longer believable in today's society and still yet a lot of parents are teaching their kids right from wrong, even the atheist parents.

Whenever I think "how is christianity doing" I look at Amerikkkan kids bullying in school. What are their parents/preachers teaching them? This moral decay is the product/result of Christianity. But Christians can never lose. If their society falls apart it's because the society left god. What did George Carlin say about our politicians? Of course they are greedy, ignorant corrupt. Where do American politicians come from? American schools, churches, homes. Garbage in garbage out. And clearly the sheep of American christians are all gullible losers who are easily manipulated into voting against themselves financially and into war for $ that they'll never share. Support tax breaks they'll never get. The rich will continue to control/own us until we put god out of our heads. There is no god.

Don't blame the devil or atheists for your churches failures. And by the way when is god going to get it right? First he fucked up with Adam, then Noah, then Jesus and now we're waiting for Jesus to come back again because god can't get it right! Fucking retards.

All I am doing is explaining the reasoning behind proclaiming a divine power to which we are obliged to be good people from the Devil's Advocate perspective.

Your anger is pervasive. You ought to deal with it internally rather than focus your ire on what others do or don't do. And if you have kids, you are foisting your irrational hatred upon them.

 

[G.T.]

and it was answered.

 

[MaxGrit]

I am not omniscient.

That is an absolute truth.

If I were, I'd know that I was as an all knowing entity.

logical fallacies are fun

 

[G.T.]

Yupp pointing them out is also.

 

[PratchettFan]

You cannot know that of me but you can know that of yourself.

But if I can't know it of you, then what makes it an absolute truth?

An absolute truth doesn't need to be known or unknown to be absolute, it just is.

I'll also posit to you that you can arrive at an absolute truth: you are or are not omniscient.

You (personally) can & do know that absolutely.

So if I say that I have experienced God first hand, that is then a statement of absolute truth.

 

[G.T.]

But if I can't know it of you, then what makes it an absolute truth?

An absolute truth doesn't need to be known or unknown to be absolute, it just is.

I'll also posit to you that you can arrive at an absolute truth: you are or are not omniscient.

You (personally) can & do know that absolutely.

So if I say that I have experienced God first hand, that is then a statement of absolute truth.

Not if you say it.

Only if it is actually true.

This isnt a matter of professing x is true thus x.

Its a matter of saying that every mind knows for an absolute fact whether or not it is omniscient, by the very definition of the word omniscient. And each person knowing that for THEMself is an absolute truth, not a mere assertion.