There is an active shooter at a Florida Highschool

[rightwinger]

Trump: "Answer hate with love, answer cruelty with kindness."

Touching

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

"The left demands compelte background searches and multiple layers of permits and licenses to purchase a firearm but says asking voters to show their driver’s license is racist" - Jack Posobiec

Jack Posobiec (/pəˈsoʊbɪk/ pə-SOW-bik; born 1985) is an American alt-right[1][2][3] internet activist, conspiracy theorist,[4][5] and self-described journalist, known primarily for his controversial and pro-Donald Trump comments on Twitter.

 

[BlackSand]

Think about this. The NRA & dumbass Trumpettes want to pass out silencers & make concealed carry permits no longer needed.

How many of more of those school students would be dead if the shooter utilized a silencer?

Hundred? Two Hundred?

Yet this is what the NRA & the stupid Trumpettes want.



Pass out guns at the door, rig them with silencers & if a shooter enters the building, we can have 1800 untrained idiots armed to the teeth. That is the NRA plan.

Not too terribly long ago when I was in high school it wasn't uncommon for people to have firearms in their vehicles.
Shit ... It wasn't uncommon to get out of school and go hunting.

Yeah dumbass ... There were students with guns all over the place and people weren't getting shot.
Ask yourself what changed ... Stupid, nit-wit, snowflake Progressive policies changed the children ... They didn't change the guns.

.

 

[depotoo]

Explosives were found in the mobile home in Lantana. From 7news.

 

[bodecea]

Gun violence in the United States is... (CBS poll, December)
Democrats
A crisis 48%
Very serious 32%
Not serious 19%

Republicans
A crisis 16%
Very serious 42%
Not serious 41%

So...not serious. Ok.

 

[Flopper]

why can we protect our money in banks with armed men but we cant protect our children in schools?!

Because people try to protect what they value most

 

[TemplarKormac]

 

[rightwinger]

He was expelled from one school in the district, rumors of it having to do with a weapon, yet sent to another within the same district. Supposedly there was also a mental health referral. Friends of the mother said she had struggled with him for years.

This is how I feel after reading this whole thread:

Yep. You have a bunch of hyper partisan people talking about the wrong issue.

Everybody knew the kid was a violent whack job, and it is likely he had been a violent whack job for quite some time. Out of the stupid need to be "inclusionary" the school system just kept passing him through with no regards to the effects he was having on everybody else.

The issue here is the identification and treatment of mental illness, along with a dysfunctional system that not only refuses to treat the mental illness, but mainstreams the mentally ill because of bureaucratic mandates instead of common sense.

Seems to be common

So many of these shooters are looked at as "creepy" by everyone who knows them, yet we have no way to keep guns out of their hands

A bartender can look at a patron and say he has had too much to drink and refuse to serve him

Yet a gun dealer can't look at one of these kids and say he is too freak'n creepy to sell a gun to

 

[Skull Pilot]

In 1966, Charles Whitman went to the observation deck of the Texas Tower and killed 13 people and injured 31
This was a time when our maniacs were more concerned with assassinations than mass killing to get your name in the newspapers

It was not till Columbine that the idea of using your assault weapon to slaughter as many people as you can took off

Since then we have had one senseless killing after another

So killing 13 with a single shot or small capacity internal magazine is some how more acceptable to you than killing with a semiautomatic rifle?

And let's just state for the record that less than 1% of murders take place in mass shooting events and rifles of any kind are used in only about 2% of all murders

Every little bit helps

Mass killings are acts of terror ...why do we continue to provide them with the tools that maximize their killing ability?

I don't provide guns to anyone.

And the fact that I happen to own guns has absolutely nothing to do with murders, mass shooting or suicides

Most legal gun owners never shoot or kill anyone. These people are just full of hyperbole, trying to blame ALL gun owners for the actions of some crazy peeps.

So, if they can do that, then we can do the same with Muslims. It is about faith (religion) which is a constitutional right (like the 2nd amendment), yet some of these people are ABUSING it and using it as an excuse (an ideology) to kill or terrorize others.

And THIS is just one more facet of banning things because of what some loons might do. You cannot control the loony people with laws. It is just a fact of life that there are going to be some crazy people in life who will freak out and do some terrible things. It is a flaw of the human condition.

The beauty of this incident is the clear cut responsibility. We, The People allowed this particular crazy to obtain an AR-15 and all the ammo he could carry.

We can't deny people their rights based on what they might do, but We can limit the scope of dangerous toys available in general, and We can do a better job of vetting and properly licensing who can and who cannot own and operate such dangerous tools, toys and machines.

I take no responsibility for what this guy did because I have absolutely no culpability

 

[Skull Pilot]

It's NOT the guns, it's the fucked up policies of the Left causing this.

Which policies, exactly? The desire to see more limited access to AR-15's in general, or the push for the kind of background check that would NEVER have allowed that kid to get any kind of gun in his hands, let alone an AR-15?

Which policies, exactly? Please be specific......

This one was preventable and that will always be on us.

MOST guns that are used to commit crimes are obtained illegally. Besides that, a lot of these loons don't have any "background" to speak of. So what kind of background checks are going to stop someone who doesn't have a criminal history from obtaining a weapon of their choice?

Doesn't matter.

The AR-15 used by Nicholas Cruz on 02-14-2018 was owned legally by him.

How could THIS mass killing be prevented?

From what I'm hearing, a decent background check into his school record should have prevented the transaction - why did it not?

Gee I don't know maybe they could have locked the fucking doors

 

[Skull Pilot]

He was expelled from one school in the district, rumors of it having to do with a weapon, yet sent to another within the same district. Supposedly there was also a mental health referral. Friends of the mother said she had struggled with him for years.

This is how I feel after reading this whole thread:

Yep. You have a bunch of hyper partisan people talking about the wrong issue.

Everybody knew the kid was a violent whack job, and it is likely he had been a violent whack job for quite some time. Out of the stupid need to be "inclusionary" the school system just kept passing him through with no regards to the effects he was having on everybody else.

The issue here is the identification and treatment of mental illness, along with a dysfunctional system that not only refuses to treat the mental illness, but mainstreams the mentally ill because of bureaucratic mandates instead of common sense.

Seems to be common

So many of these shooters are looked at as "creepy" by everyone who knows them, yet we have no way to keep guns out of their hands

A bartender can look at a patron and say he has had too much to drink and refuse to serve him

Yet a gun dealer can't look at one of these kids and say he is too freak'n creepy to sell a gun to

Being creepy isn't illegal. He passed the background checks when he bought his guns didn't he?

 

[AVG-JOE]

Doesn't matter.

The AR-15 used by Nicholas Cruz on 02-14-2018 was owned legally by him.

How could THIS mass killing be prevented?

From what I'm hearing, a decent background check into his school record should have prevented the transaction - why did it not?

You said it and yet it flies right by you.

The required background check is the government's response to gun violence.
It is already against the law for crazy people to own firearms.
The FBI was warned about this person.

It's pretty clear the government and all its wisdom/laws ... Completely Failed.

How long are you going to keep trusting them to do anything correctly?
How much power are you willing to grant an entity that has proven to be a complete and utter failure?

.

Is it not possible to simply change what failed?

The real world is not so black-and-white - background checks should have prevented this one, the 'Vegas shooting could have only been stopped by limiting hardware.

The answer is to do both and do so with teeth.

`​

"limiting hardware"
How about we limit words too? Or rights to worship? Or any other liberties GUARANTEED to us by our Constitution?
There are problems with every right. Only morons think freedom is free.

Loving the role of Capt. Obvious here I'll point out that We already limit hardware.

You can waive your copy of The Second in the face of any legal dealer of arms (and there are PLENTY) and you still can't buy a tank, no matter how many pennies you saved up for the transaction.


It is not unconstitutional for Us to limit access to hardware, We already do. Next is to refine the list.

I don't need a tank for my personal defense, if the shit is hitting the fan that badly I pay taxes to rely on The US Marines for that kind of conflict.

Because I'm lucky enough to have been born in America, I don't need an AR-15 for my personal defense. The AR-15 is strictly an offensive weapon and there is no reason We The People should not restrict access to it.

In this particular shooting, the fact of young Mr Cruz having access to ANY weapons is the "Shame on Us" moment, but his choice of weapon IS relevant to the body count.

`​

 

[Skull Pilot]

Bomb making wont be that tricky if it became the norm

Do you even realize how stupid this line of argument is?
Do you build bombs for fun and pleasure in your garage? Do you go set them off in the cow pasture on Sundays for recreation?
Just because we know to buy fertilizer, what then? How do you set it off? How much poop do you need to blow up a building the size of the federal building in OK?
I have a feeling if nutcases couldn't go to the sporting goods store and purchase a rifle, they would just grumble and grouse and dream of mayhem rather than committing it. 99% of the time, anyway. Even making AR15's illegal isn't going to solve the problem 100%.
Pogo is right--it isn't simply a matter of outlawing this gun or that, or making it harder to own one. There is a lot more to it, in many different areas: law enforcement, media, figuring out why in hell so many people are going off the rails and supporting solutions that prevent it. Nothing is going to change over night. It's not a magic wand solution. But we have to get started or we'll never get anywhere.

Its not stupid. It if became a norm, materials and knowledge would be more accessible. Hek, we have books that show how to make bombs out of 3 ingredients.
I agree with the last part. Banning guns and ammo is fucking retarded. It wont do anything.
To get started, you have to have somewhere to start. Where is that starting position?

Okay, let's start somewhere.
Do you agree that children in our society are bathed in gun violence through media and video games? Graphic depictions of human beings being killed with guns?
Would you oppose strictly limiting those graphic depictions in movies, games and using general societal disapproval to teach children that guns are not for taking human life?

So we start by restricting freedom of speech?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Bomb making wont be that tricky if it became the norm

Do you even realize how stupid this line of argument is?
Do you build bombs for fun and pleasure in your garage? Do you go set them off in the cow pasture on Sundays for recreation?
Just because we know to buy fertilizer, what then? How do you set it off? How much poop do you need to blow up a building the size of the federal building in OK?
I have a feeling if nutcases couldn't go to the sporting goods store and purchase a rifle, they would just grumble and grouse and dream of mayhem rather than committing it. 99% of the time, anyway. Even making AR15's illegal isn't going to solve the problem 100%.
Pogo is right--it isn't simply a matter of outlawing this gun or that, or making it harder to own one. There is a lot more to it, in many different areas: law enforcement, media, figuring out why in hell so many people are going off the rails and supporting solutions that prevent it. Nothing is going to change over night. It's not a magic wand solution. But we have to get started or we'll never get anywhere.

Its not stupid. It if became a norm, materials and knowledge would be more accessible. Hek, we have books that show how to make bombs out of 3 ingredients.
I agree with the last part. Banning guns and ammo is fucking retarded. It wont do anything.
To get started, you have to have somewhere to start. Where is that starting position?

Okay, let's start somewhere.
Do you agree that children in our society are bathed in gun violence through media and video games? Graphic depictions of human beings being killed with guns?
Would you oppose strictly limiting those graphic depictions in movies, games and using general societal disapproval to teach children that guns are not for taking human life?

teach children that guns are not for taking human life?
Yes.

What about strict limits on movies, television shows and video games that portray human on human gun violence?

What about books with violent content ?

 

[TNHarley]

Doesn't matter.

The AR-15 used by Nicholas Cruz on 02-14-2018 was owned legally by him.

How could THIS mass killing be prevented?

From what I'm hearing, a decent background check into his school record should have prevented the transaction - why did it not?

You said it and yet it flies right by you.

The required background check is the government's response to gun violence.
It is already against the law for crazy people to own firearms.
The FBI was warned about this person.

It's pretty clear the government and all its wisdom/laws ... Completely Failed.

How long are you going to keep trusting them to do anything correctly?
How much power are you willing to grant an entity that has proven to be a complete and utter failure?

.

Is it not possible to simply change what failed?

The real world is not so black-and-white - background checks should have prevented this one, the 'Vegas shooting could have only been stopped by limiting hardware.

The answer is to do both and do so with teeth.

`​

"limiting hardware"
How about we limit words too? Or rights to worship? Or any other liberties GUARANTEED to us by our Constitution?
There are problems with every right. Only morons think freedom is free.

Loving the role of Capt. Obvious here I'll point out that We already limit hardware.

You can waive your copy of The Second in the face of any legal dealer of arms (and there are PLENTY) and you still can't buy a tank, no matter how many pennies you saved up for the transaction.


It is not unconstitutional for Us to limit access to hardware, We already do. Next is to refine the list.

I don't need a tank for my personal defense, if the shit is hitting the fan that badly I pay taxes to rely on The US Marines for that kind of conflict.

Because I'm lucky enough to have been born in America, I don't need an AR-15 for my personal defense. The AR-15 is strictly an offensive weapon and there is no reason We The People should not restrict access to it.

In this particular shooting, the fact of young Mr Cruz having access to ANY weapons is the "Shame on Us" moment, but his choice of weapon IS relevant to the body count.

`​

Tanks are legal...
I understand we already have limitations, that wasnt my point.
It isnt about YOU. It is about US.
I disagree. It takes 3 seconds to reload a pistol with a 10 round chamber. Less than that if you practice.
Offensive weapons are for us to defend ourselves. The second is there to defend ourselves. Mostly from the govt.
The 2nd is the most important. It keeps all the others in check.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Think about this. The NRA & dumbass Trumpettes want to pass out silencers & make concealed carry permits no longer needed.

How many of more of those school students would be dead if the shooter utilized a silencer?

Hundred? Two Hundred?

Yet this is what the NRA & the stupid Trumpettes want.



Pass out guns at the door, rig them with silencers & if a shooter enters the building, we can have 1800 untrained idiots armed to the teeth. That is the NRA plan.

If you can legally purchase a gun why do you need a permit to carry it?

 

[Skull Pilot]

President Trump: "No child, no teacher should ever be in danger in an American school."

Which is why the doors should be locked and entry denied to anyone who has no legitimate business on school grounds

This piece of shit just walked into a school through an open door and people want to say it's the gun's fault.

WTF is the matter with you people?

 

[Flopper]

Because every year there are almost 1,000 gun deaths in a city with the strictest gun control laws in the country. It is the poster child for the failure of gun control laws and the pandering by the liberal Democrats to the demographics that are the by far main perpetrators of crimes.

However, if your point is that Chicago is not the only Democrat run big city shithole in the US then you are correct. Just look at an election result map from 2016 and the blue splotches are where most of the gun crimes take place. .

Right. Because those are WHERE PEOPLE ACTUALLY LIVE.

Chicago doesn't have strict gun laws. We haven't since 2010 when the Heller and McDonald decisions overturned our gun laws.

Yes....they have strict gun control laws......and it isn't law abiding gun owners doing the shooting in Chicago...it is teenagers who can't buy, own or carry guns who are doing the killing......no gun stores, no gun ranges in Chicago...also, Baltimore has even more extreme gun control and has a higher murder rate than even New York City with a tiny, tiny population...

Politically, strong gun control laws are just not in cards and neither is arming teachers. What is doable, if we want to commit the resources is keeping guns out the schools. It would require metal detectors, and additions security at the schools and actually enforcing current school security. The cost would be in billions but we are spending about 10 billion dollars a year trying secure our airports.

I've taught in public schools and worked in school administration and can tell you, school security is a joke. Signs say, "visitors must report the office" or "visitor permit required". I've entered hundreds of schools and have never been asked for a permit and or even questioned in any way. Retail stores have better security than most schools.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Okay, let's start somewhere.
Do you agree that children in our society are bathed in gun violence through media and video games? Graphic depictions of human beings being killed with guns?
Would you oppose strictly limiting those graphic depictions in movies, games and using general societal disapproval to teach children that guns are not for taking human life?

teach children that guns are not for taking human life?
Yes.

What about strict limits on movies, television shows and video games that portray human on human gun violence?

No. That should fall on the parents. Not all kids are mentally weak enough to be deluded by fantasy.
Not to mention, adults enjoy that stuff too.
Besides, i think the bigger problem is the violence itself. The gun is just a tool used for the bigger scheme of things.
In order to solve a problem you dont understand, you will have to think outside the box. This simple, egregious thinking wont get us anywhere.

What is your out of the box thinking, since you understand the problem so well?

The FBI was warned about this kid back in September.......he had all the signs.....lack of a father, single mother raising him till she died 2 months ago......obvious social media examples showing fascination with mass murder.....the kids who knew him predicted this....there needs to be new techniques for dealing with these known threats...

"Oh!" "I know!"
How about an actual background check that should have taken one glance at his school records and gone

`​

 

[DigitalDrifter]

None of which reduces the role of We, the People in allowing the transaction resulting in that crazy young fucker owning an AR-15 and all the ammo he can carry.

Nor does it reduce in any way the sadness.

You do realize that an AR is a semi-auto like most deer rifles?