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I would never expect entropy to stay the same. Technically it could stay the same. But it is unlikely it ever would. What it cannot do - at least not without adding energy to the system - is decrease.You yourself admitted that the SLoT says entropy can increase or STAY THE SAME, so if your last claim were true than entropy could NEVER stay the same. You can't have it both ways, you can't correctly claim entropy can stay the same, and then incorrectly claim that entropy ALWAYS increases.But don't forget that every transfer from energy to matter or matter to energy is not perfect (SLoT). There are no thermodynamic processes that are 100% efficient.
Saying there are no thermodynamic processes that are 100% efficient is a statement of fact. That statement of fact in no way comments on the overall state of entropy in the universe.You yourself admitted that the SLoT says entropy can increase or STAY THE SAME, so if your last claim were true than entropy could NEVER stay the same. You can't have it both ways, you can't correctly claim entropy can stay the same, and then incorrectly claim that entropy ALWAYS increases.But don't forget that every transfer from energy to matter or matter to energy is not perfect (SLoT). There are no thermodynamic processes that are 100% efficient.
Actually there are only 3 kinds of energy, kinetic, potential, and heat, dummy. Kinetic energy is considered usable because it can do "work." Potential energy most be converted to kinetic energy to do work. as long as there is motion, kinetic energy exists to do work. Since there is no temperature at which all motion stops, there will always be useful energy to do work making thermo equilibrium impossible.There are all kinds of usable energy, dummy.Usable energy is actually called KINETIC energy, and kinetic energy is the energy of MOTION. In order for the universe to use up all of its kinetic energy, ALL motion must stop. But that is a violation of the Third Law of Thermodynamics, which says there is no temperature at all motion stops, so therefore thermal equilibrium is impossible.The problem with a cyclical universe is with the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. For every matter to energy or energy to matter exchange there is a loss of usable energy. So while the total energy of the universe does not decrease, the usable energy of the universe does decrease. If it is a periodic or cyclical universe then the entropy will increase with each cycle. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics is a fundamental law of nature which tells us that entropy can only increase or stay the same. Entropy can never decrease. Which means that in a finite amount of time, a finite system will reach a maximum state of disorder which is called thermal equilibrium
But according to the SLoT you swear by, it can, whether you expect it or not!!! The SLoT does NOT depend on your expectations.I would never expect entropy to stay the same.
Dummy, thermal equilibrium occurs when there is a uniform temperature. Motion of particles will still be occurring. This is really stupid as it has no bearing on the universe being created from nothing.Actually there are only 3 kinds of energy, kinetic, potential, and heat, dummy. Kinetic energy us considered usable because it can do "work." Potential energy most be converted to kinetic energy to do work. as long as there is motion, kinetic energy exists to do work. Since there is no temperature at which all motion stops, there will always be useful energy to do work making thermo equilibrium impossible.There are all kinds of usable energy, dummy.Usable energy is actually called KINETIC energy, and kinetic energy is the energy of MOTION. In order for the universe to use up all of its kinetic energy, ALL motion must stop. But that is a violation of the Third Law of Thermodynamics, which says there is no temperature at all motion stops, so therefore thermal equilibrium is impossible.The problem with a cyclical universe is with the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. For every matter to energy or energy to matter exchange there is a loss of usable energy. So while the total energy of the universe does not decrease, the usable energy of the universe does decrease. If it is a periodic or cyclical universe then the entropy will increase with each cycle. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics is a fundamental law of nature which tells us that entropy can only increase or stay the same. Entropy can never decrease. Which means that in a finite amount of time, a finite system will reach a maximum state of disorder which is called thermal equilibrium
Nice parsing, dummy. Don't worry I fixed it for you. I'm sorry the universe beginning upsets your delicate sensibilities.But according to the SLoT you swear by, it can, whether you expect it or not!!! The SLoT does NOT depend on your expectations.I would never expect entropy to stay the same. Technically it could stay the same. But it is unlikely it ever would. What it cannot do - at least not without adding energy to the system - is decrease.
The only time the universe was ever perfectly ordered was prior to expansion and cooling. Ever since that time it has become more and more disordered.
No, it is a statement of ignorance of the SLoT, which says entropy can be greater than or EQUAL TO ZERO.Saying there are no thermodynamic processes that are 100% efficient is a statement of fact.
Stop misstating me.No, it is a statement of ignorance of the SLoT, which says entropy can be greater than or EQUAL TO ZERO.Saying there are no thermodynamic processes that are 100% efficient is a statement of fact.
You are claiming entropy is ALWAYS greater than zero, a clear violation of the SLoT.
ki·net·ic en·er·gyThe kinetic energy in the universe comes from transformations of mass.
Actually all are simply potential. Mass too. Kinetic energy is farce and heat is simply energy having a frequency in the IR range. Dipoles of endless variety abound, but each ultimately boils down to singular stresses in combination or series.Actually there are only 3 kinds of energy, kinetic, potential, and heat, dummy.
Stop perverting the Laws of Thermodynamics and start obeying them.Stop misstating me.
Stop perverting the Laws of Thermodynamics and start obeying them.Stop misstating me.
.It's not possible for energy to exist outside of space and time because the presence of energy creates space and time. Therefore it's not possible for energy and matter to exist forever without reaching thermal equilibrium.The universe is ENERGY which can neither be created nor destroyed, AKA, the PROVEN first law of thermodynamics.what is your explanation for how and where the Universe came from?Explanations are good. Fairy stories, not so much.
Red shift, cosmic background radiation, Friedmann's solutions to Einstein's field equations and the Second Law of Thermodynamics tells us that space and time did have a beginning. If the universe is expanding then it must have a beginning. If you follow it backwards in time, then any object must come to a boundary of space time. You cannot continue that history indefinitely. This is still true even if a universe has periods of contraction. It still has to have a beginning if expansion over weights the contraction. Physicists have been uncomfortable with the idea of a beginning since the work of Friedman which showed that the solutions of Einstein's equation showed that the universe had a beginning. The problem with a cyclical universe is with the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. For every matter to energy or energy to matter exchange there is a loss of usable energy. So while the total energy of the universe does not decrease, the usable energy of the universe does decrease. If it is a periodic or cyclical universe then the entropy will increase with each cycle. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics is a fundamental law of nature which tells us that entropy can only increase or stay the same. Entropy can never decrease. Which means that in a finite amount of time, a finite system will reach a maximum state of disorder which is called thermal equilibrium and then it will stay in that state. A cyclical universe cannot avoid this problem. Since we do not see thermal equilibrium (good thing too because there would be no life) we know that the universe did have a beginning.
Inflation Theory, the First Law of Thermodynamics and quantum mechanics tells us that it is possible for matter to have a beginning. In a closed universe the gravitational energy which is always negative exactly compensates the positive energy of matter. So the energy of a closed universe is always zero. So nothing prevents this universe from being spontaneously created. Because the net energy is always zero. The positive energy of matter is balanced by the negative energy of the gravity of that matter which is the space time curvature of that matter. There is no conservation law that prevents the formation of such a universe. In quantum mechanics if something is not forbidden by conservation laws, then it necessarily happens with some non-zero probability. So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool. In this description, the same laws that describe the evolution of the universe also describe the appearance of the universe which means that the laws were in place before the universe itself.
.Therefore it's not possible for energy and matter to exist forever without reaching thermal equilibrium.
So... no links for your theories?Actually all are simply potential. Mass too. Kinetic energy is farce and heat is simply energy having a frequency in the IR range. Dipoles of endless variety abound, but each ultimately boils down to singular stresses in combination or series.Actually there are only 3 kinds of energy, kinetic, potential, and heat, dummy.
thanks, my take is that I may have overstayed my welcome there. I'll ask.Yes. More than ding, but that's a very low bar.Am I making any sense?
However work can still be done as long as MOTION exists to be exploited. Thus no heat death of the universe ending the universeit only requires that temperature differences or other processes may no longer be exploited to perform work.
Look, If I've overstayed my welcome here I'll bow out & say thanks for the convo.If you could actually argue against my content you would because we know how crazy the universe beginning makes you.Yes. More than ding, but that's a very low bar.Am I making any sense?
?commiserant
No, no. You stay then. I'll go.Look, If I've overstayed my welcome here I'll bow out & say thanks for the convo.If you could actually argue against my content you would because we know how crazy the universe beginning makes you.Yes. More than ding, but that's a very low bar.Am I making any sense?
Common sense. One need only think harder than the average bear. Don't even try. You'll just have another cow.So... no links for your theories?Actually all are simply potential. Mass too. Kinetic energy is farce and heat is simply energy having a frequency in the IR range. Dipoles of endless variety abound, but each ultimately boils down to singular stresses in combination or series.Actually there are only 3 kinds of energy, kinetic, potential, and heat, dummy.
