This Is Why We Have Libertarians

[dblack]

How does one define libertarian? Do I think personal freedom is important? Yes. Do I think laissez faire capitalism is a good idea? Absolutely not.

Then you're contradicting yourself.

 

[dblack]

View attachment 845081

A lot of people make that mistake.

 

[Billy000]

The sole purpose was to limit the number of taxis on the street. That's. It.

What they achieved was to cause a speculative bubble in medallions instead. And now that bubble has popped with the arrival of Uber, and the medallion owners find themselves in debt they cannot repay.

But there had to be a reason as to why they wanted them limited. It’s too specific to just do for the hell of it.

 

[Billy000]

Then you're contradicting yourself.

Absolutely not. When it comes to personal freedom, there are many things a person can’t do. You can’t rob a gas station. Your personal freedom has limits in any society.

 

[dblack]

Absolutely not. When it comes to personal freedom, there are many things a person can’t do. You can’t rob a gas station. Your personal freedom has limits in any society.

And why should trading with someone else be limited?

 

[Billy000]

And why should trading with someone else be limited?

The issue is harmful deregulation and the massive income disparity. I mean my god, I’m sure even you can get behind SOME regulations right? Like you know, not being to dump waste in to fresh water or limiting the amount of lead in paint. The list goes on and on. If you can get behind those regulations then it would be arbitrary to call if fascist for other ones.

 

[Rogue AI]

It is asinine to take a single interpretation, the article in question, and place it above the nine interpretations of the Justices that were appointed for such tasks.

 

[MinTrut]

Wasn't your post asking why they government needed to license the respite service?

I doubt I'll need one "real soon", given my current health and genetics, but at my age, anything can happen at any time. I could fall off my bicycle tomorrow and do serious harm.




Everytime you have a good and profitable set up for hard working people, to help them get ahead, rich people are going to find a way to co-opt that system, and take the profits of other people's hard work for themselves.

The original tags were cheap - $1000 or thereabouts. Even after the price hit $100,000, the city would sell a few hundred tags every now and again for peanuts, and make sure all of them went to real taxi drivers, not holding companies, or fleets. Of course the fleet owners would offer a driver a big chunk of cash to apply for a tag and then sign it over to them. Always looking for any angle.

When the tags first started selling for outrageous amounts it was a real boon to retiring drivers to get a big chunk of cash on the way out the door. But it cut the legs right out from under the next generation of owner/drivers who just end up paying the owners first and getting whatever is left. Slow nights, they might go home with $20.

^ Superbly informed.

And bike defensively - Canuckistanian drivers can be a bit aggressive, eh?

 

[dblack]

The issue is harmful deregulation and the massive income disparity. I mean my god, I’m sure even you can get behind SOME regulations right?
Like you know, not being to dump waste in to fresh water or limiting the amount of lead in paint.

Of course. Government has an obligation to maintain the commons.

The list goes on and on.

And that's the problem. If the list goes on and on it amounts to totalitarian government. Something needs to limit the list. That's the point of Constitutional limits on government, limits that ambitious leaders and insecure voters (and corrupt actors in society who want to use the government to their advantage) are constantly pushing to remove.

If you can get behind those regulations then it would be arbitrary to call if fascist for other ones

No, it wouldn't. The fact that you don't see that is the reason libertarians and conservatives don't trust you with the regulatory state.

 

[Mac1958]

I agree.

Even the word "libertarian" makes me shake my head.

I voted for Harry Browne back in the day. I thought his message was the purest and most consistent, even if it was, essentially, an impossible goal. But I think that libertarianism deserves a seat at the table, if nothing else as a reminder of the dangers of going too far. A thoughtful socioeconomic conscience that counterbalances pure liberalism.

That said, look at what has happened. The GQP has allowed a mindless, Neanderthal caricature of libertarianism to pollute and distort its messaging. All government is bad, always. Government is evil. Government is the enemy. Attack it. This was not Harry Browne's message. Browne was thoughtful, articulate, intelligent, measured, respectful, respectable.. He could see the big picture. Everything the GQP is not.

The authoritarian cavemen who have perverted the GQP are not only turning libertarianism into an ugly joke, they're risking a response too far in the opposite freakin' direction.

 

[eagle1462010]

Even the word "libertarian" makes me shake my head.

I voted for Harry Browne back in the day. I thought his message was the purest and most consistent, even if it was, essentially, an impossible goal. But I think that libertarianism deserves a seat at the table, if nothing else as a reminder of the dangers of going too far. A thoughtful socioeconomic conscience that counterbalances pure liberalism.

That said, look at what has happened. The GQP has allowed a mindless, Neanderthal caricature of libertarianism to pollute and distort its messaging. All government is bad, always. Government is evil. Government is the enemy. Attack it. This was not Harry Browne's message. Browne was thoughtful, articulate, intelligent, measured, respectful, respectable.. He could see the big picture. Everything the GQP is not.

The authoritarian cavemen who have perverted the GQP are not only turning libertarianism into an ugly joke, they're risking a response too far in the opposite freakin' direction.

I think we are saying take your woke BS, Diversity BS, Gun Grabbing BS, Global Warming BS, Open Borders BS, Hand Money to our Enemies BS, use Govt as a Weapon BS, and shove them up your ass.

I dont give a fuck if you are retarted as long as you keep it on your shit hole state and not ours.

Enumerated powers and a return to states handling their own affairs is what is needed.

 

[Mac1958]

I think we are saying take your woke BS, Diversity BS, Gun Grabbing BS, Global Warming BS, Open Borders BS, Hand Money to our Enemies BS, use Govt as a Weapon BS, and shove them up your ass.

I dont give a fuck if you are retarted as long as you keep it on your shit hole state and not ours.

Enumerated powers and a return to states handling their own affairs is what is needed.

And you completely miss the point. As I would expect.

Caveman.

 

[eagle1462010]

And you completely miss the point. As I would expect.

Caveman.

Yes I am a Caveman. Their agenda is so clear that a caveman can see it.

 

[Dragonlady]

^ Superbly informed.

And bike defensively - Canuckistanian drivers can be a bit aggressive, eh?

Thank you.

I live in a small sleepy town with very little traffic and 2 stoplights. I don't ride on the highway that goes through town, because it is busy, and only 2 lanes.

 

[Thinker101]

Wasn't your post asking why they government needed to license the respite service?

I doubt I'll need one "real soon", given my current health and genetics, but at my age, anything can happen at any time. I could fall off my bicycle tomorrow and do serious harm.




Everytime you have a good and profitable set up for hard working people, to help them get ahead, rich people are going to find a way to co-opt that system, and take the profits of other people's hard work for themselves.

The original tags were cheap - $1000 or thereabouts. Even after the price hit $100,000, the city would sell a few hundred tags every now and again for peanuts, and make sure all of them went to real taxi drivers, not holding companies, or fleets. Of course the fleet owners would offer a driver a big chunk of cash to apply for a tag and then sign it over to them. Always looking for any angle.

When the tags first started selling for outrageous amounts it was a real boon to retiring drivers to get a big chunk of cash on the way out the door. But it cut the legs right out from under the next generation of owner/drivers who just end up paying the owners first and getting whatever is left. Slow nights, they might go home with $20.

No kidding, you can't figure out which post you replied to? Oops, my bad, you're a fricken lib, of course you can't.

 

[whitehall]

I don't know what libertarians can do about the Supreme Court but there were a few bad decisions in the 20th century. FDR appointed a (former?) KKK member to the Court and we ended up with "Separation of Church and State" which had no basis in the Constitution. For the record the same Justice wrote the majority opinion that absolved FDR from responsibility for incarcerating American citizens without due process. Later on the Court found an issue of "privacy" that did not exist in the Constitution to justify the slaughter of the unborn.

 

[Dragonlady]

I don't know what libertarians can do about the Supreme Court but there were a few bad decisions in the 20th century. FDR appointed a (former?) KKK member to the Court and we ended up with "Separation of Church and State" which had no basis in the Constitution. For the record the same Justice wrote the majority opinion that absolved FDR from responsibility for incarcerating American citizens without due process. Later on the Court found an issue of "privacy" that did not exist in the Constitution to justify the slaughter of the unborn.

Need I remind you that everything that was that Hitler did in Nazi Germany was also it was also legal. Putin’s murder of his opposition and journalists in Russia is all legal, and these people all have trials in and which render verdicts.

All governments just make up laws for what they want to do and pass them. Canada locked up all of its citizens of Japanese heritage as well.

In most decent countries, we acknowledge our mistakes, apologize, and try not to do it again. The USA covers up what they did, pretends it never happened, and then deny it was a bad idea. Slavery, Trail of Tears, Tulsa massacre, residential schools, fascism and pro-Hitler movement in the 1930’s, Jim Crow, segregation, racism.

Trump has promised that he will declare martial law in the USA on the day after the inauguration. This will have the effect of suspending all Constitutional rights for all citizens of the United States and then whatever he does after that to the opposition will be legal.

Trump has also declared that he will bring in the military to deal with protesters and they will have orders to shoot protesters.

All Democrats will be fired from all government jobs, and all Democratic leaders will be arrested and prosecuted.

He’s also promised to round up all of the illegals and deport them but he promised that last time and didn’t do it. He did round up more than 40,000 illegal immigrants and keep them in filthy tent camps for two years. He didn’t deport any of these. He just kept them locked up at the rate of $700 per day per person straight into the pockets of the for-profit prison companies which donated to his inauguration fund.

Sane reasonable, Americans read trumps campaign promises and become alarmed. The cult will deny he’s ever said any of it.

 

[sartre play]

Agreeing or not overall LIBERTARIANS are more honest than the extreme right leaning MAGA'S

 

[whitehall]

Need I remind you that everything that was that Hitler did in Nazi Germany was also it was also legal. Putin’s murder of his opposition and journalists in Russia is all legal, and these people all have trials in and which render verdicts.

All governments just make up laws for what they want to do and pass them. Canada locked up all of its citizens of Japanese heritage as well.

In most decent countries, we acknowledge our mistakes, apologize, and try not to do it again. The USA covers up what they did, pretends it never happened, and then deny it was a bad idea. Slavery, Trail of Tears, Tulsa massacre, residential schools, fascism and pro-Hitler movement in the 1930’s, Jim Crow, segregation, racism.

Trump has promised that he will declare martial law in the USA on the day after the inauguration. This will have the effect of suspending all Constitutional rights for all citizens of the United States and then whatever he does after that to the opposition will be legal.

Trump has also declared that he will bring in the military to deal with protesters and they will have orders to shoot protesters.

All Democrats will be fired from all government jobs, and all Democratic leaders will be arrested and prosecuted.

He’s also promised to round up all of the illegals and deport them but he promised that last time and didn’t do it. He did round up more than 40,000 illegal immigrants and keep them in filthy tent camps for two years. He didn’t deport any of these. He just kept them locked up at the rate of $700 per day per person straight into the pockets of the for-profit prison companies which donated to his inauguration fund.

Sane reasonable, Americans read trumps campaign promises and become alarmed. The cult will deny he’s ever said any of it.

You want to justify FDR's notorious EO 9066 and unconstitutional decisions by the S.C. on the basis of Hitler and Putin? WTF?

 

[Dragonlady]

Agreeing or not overall LIBERTARIANS are more honest than the extreme right leaning MAGA'S

I think libertarians are grossly naïve. They think that if left to their own devices people will do the right thing and not take advantage of others or harm or steal from them. I wish.

I believe that the vast majority of people are decent and honest, I just want to live a good life. Sadly, there is a sizeable chunk of the population who are lazy, conniving, and greedy and who will take advantage of the honest people.

So laws have to be passed to prevent these dishonest people from taking advantage of others, and defrauding them of their money, or stealing it. Or cutting corners on expensive pollution cleanup, leading causing to cancer and death.

How do people with multiple family members fighting cancer have the emotional strength or financial resources to take on the chemical company that poisoned their family? The whole family will be dead before it gets to trial.