This is why we need to tax the wealthy

[Nostra]

Billy000 has been AWOL on his own failed thread for a few days……must be embarrassed.

Still waiting for you to tell us the % you think wealth should be taxed.

Must be waiting on his handlers for an answer.

 

[beagle9]

You are either stupid or trying to make a point that will never fly.

Yes, before the 16th Amendment, there was no income tax but the goobermint doesn't create money. In fact, our goobermint is forbidden from competing with Private Enterprise by law.

But it is still The People who create ALL wealth in this Country. Tariffs and duties are passed along to the consumer.

Sac up, you made a boo-boo either because of an innocent error or because you're stupid.

Biden's involvement in creating a situation where the government has become the Union for the American citizens is definitely out of order, and might be illegal actually. It is why companies haven't been able to get or keep employees since the Democrat's have taken power with pandering Biden undermining this country to no end.

 

[Billy000]

Billy000 has been AWOL on his own failed thread for a few days……must be embarrassed.

Still waiting for you to tell us the % you think wealth should be taxed.

Must be waiting on his handlers for an answer.

lol trust me I sense your desperation

 

[Nostra]

lol trust me I sense your desperation

Still no original thoughts?

Im shocked! Shocked I tells ya!

 

[pknopp]

No doubt, but what we are talking about is just how much of what is mine, does Caeser believe he can take?

How much is far different than an argument that one doesn't want to pay at all for the things they use.

 

[g5000]

No, we need a one page tax form.

That's what I have been saying for a very long time.

Eliminate all deductions, credits, and exemptions and presto! You have a postcard tax return. And your tax rate would be MUCH lower.

That is the ONLY way to achieve it.

 

[Oldestyle]

Can Americans legally travel today to Cuba and other nations that it has deemed America's enemies? If the US was once invaded by communist powers as Soviet Russia was in 1918 by the US, Britain, and France, among other capitalist powers, and then economically sanctioned and encircled, it might also have its own so-called "iron curtain", prohibiting its citizens from traveling outside its borders. Anyways..

After WW2, the US was essentially unscathed thanks to being surrounded by two vast oceans. The Soviet Union was invaded by 4 million Germans and lost 28 million of its citizens, of which 19 million were civilians with 9 million KIA on the battlefield. It lost about 14% of its population. Much of Soviet Russia's infrastructure was decimated, forcing them to rebuild without any assistance from the United States or any other country. They had to pick themselves up by their bootstraps. Uncle Sam had no "Marshal Plan" for the Soviets, but rather economic sanctions and a cold war-arms race.

The Soviet, socialist experiment had great accomplishments but it was a young country with a new political, economic, and social system, which required a commitment from its citizens, to contribute to its development (Marxist marketless socialism had never been tried before at a national scale).

Brain drain was a problem, because the US, which became the manufacturing hub of the world after WW2, with the most prosperous working class in the world (A "middle class"), was extremely enticing for a considerable number of the USSR's scientists, academia, and intelligentsia. They could easily move to the US and Western Europe and yes, enjoy a higher standard of living, as far as material goods and access to resources. Without a doubt, I don't deny that. The Iron Curtain was a means to stop such people from defecting (escaping), into the West, and taking their expertise and secrets with them to the enemy. An enemy who had been invading Soviet Russia and killing socialists since its birth in 1917.

The Soviets were essentially in a state of war for all of its 75 years with well-developed, powerful capitalist-run nations, except for a few years in the 1930s when all of the West was under a great economic depression. In the 1930s the "brain drain" was in reverse, with a considerable number of Western engineers and scientists migrating to the Soviet Union. Many Soviets were trained by Western engineers and scientists in the 1930s.

Socialistas didn't want to spend a considerable % of their resources on their military, they preferred to allocate that to infrastructural development and social services, unfortunately, after WW2 the wealthy American ruling elites who were forced in the 1930s by FDR into a "new deal" as a result of pressure from below, namely the American working class through a grassroots socialist-run labor movement:

​

Decided to exact their revenge on American socialists and of course the USSR (i.e. United Soviet Socialist Republic).

​

The golden age of the US economy in the 1950s and 60s took place when the American workforce had the highest labor union membership in its history with good pay and a host of benefits providing it with the highest standard of living in the world. The CEOs of the largest corporations made an average of about 20x the salary of their average employee whereas today in 2023 they make as much as 1000x more and the working class can barely support themselves with one income, if at all. The tax rate back then for all who made over 200K anually was 91%. Regardless of whether the effective tax rate or what the wealthy actually paid was lower than the official, marginal tax rate, the rich still paid more than what they do today.

Why is it that the wealthy ruling elites have so much power today and the working class is barely scraping by? After WW2 America's big-money elites set out to reverse most of the gains of the "New Deal" and make sure progressive, socialist policies never influence or set the standard for the economy. The break up of labor unions, the gutting of the American manufacturing base in exchange for cheaper, lower-quality, foreign-produced consumer goods (turning American factories into product-distribution centers for imported products), stagnant wages, fewer worker rights, with a higher cost of living:

​

The US was in a fortunate, unique position politically and economically after WW2, turning the USD into the world's reserve currency and becoming the world's main source of products. The American ruling elite set out to take back control of the US government and economy, and by the early 1980s, they achieved that, leading to the economic and political conditions we're in now. The Soviets lost the Cold War, after being burned out by the West's relentless effort to destroy it. Starting in the late 1950s, several years after the death of Stalin, the Soviets began to "reform" and thirty years later that led to its demise. The USSR was dissolved. Does that imply socialism and its objective, communism, failed? No, why would any thoughtful person believe that?

Did capitalism replace chattel slavery and feudalism overnight? It took centuries for the mercantile class and its Republicanism to take hold in Europe, replacing its monarchs and royal aristocracy. Material conditions had to be in place allowing the merchants to become the powerful industrialists of the 19th century, supporting parliamentary governance and greater freedom for everyone, including their employees (i.e. Working Class). If marketless socialism is going to replace market capitalism, do you believe it will occur with one single swoop of the sword or a single experiment like the USSR? No, most likely it won't.

I will argue that marketless socialism is the inevitable outcome of advanced automation and artificial intelligence. Powerful computers, advanced intelligent robotics, eventually forces society by necessity to adopt a non-profit, more democratic system of production. It might take 25 more years for that to happen, or maybe even 100+ years,but eventually, at a national scale, we;re going to have to adopt socialism in order to survive and thrive. The final end of this process leads to the individual consumer having complete control over the means of production. The ability to manufacture everything from home.

One day, thanks to technology, the American consumer is going to be able to draw water from the air (we have technology that can do that today). Provide themselves with their electricity through a micro-nuclear reactor (i.e. A fusion or advanced fission reactor) and produce all of their food, clothing, and housing (in the future real estate or the practice of living in one place permanently will become boring and obsolete, people will be mobile, living in communities/colonies of large vehicles of various kinds).

Oh OK, this government is being too overbearing, violating my freedoms, hence I'm packing up and going somewhere else. I don't need government services, I have the technology to survive and thrive with my family, anywhere I choose to settle. I can go to the asteroid belts and survive and thrive, I don't need an intrusive, overbearing government micromanaging my life.

Withering away of the state - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"Communism (from Latin communis, 'common, universal')[1][2] is a left-wing to far-left sociopolitical, philosophical, and economic ideology within the socialist movement,[1] whose goal is the creation of a communist society, a socioeconomic order centered around common ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange that allocates products to everyone in the society based on need.[3][4][5] A communist society would entail the absence of private property and social classes,[1] and ultimately money[6][non-primary source needed] and the state (or nation state).[7][8][9]"

Communism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Private property isn't personal property. Private property is essentially that which you employ within a capitalist market system to generate a profit or exploit other human beings for monetary gain. It's not your house, your vehicle/s, your PC, your phone, your fruit of the looms, tooth brush..etc.

Socialism according to Karl Marx and Fredrick Engels, leads to the "withering away of the state". The power of the government is greatly diminished due to public access to technology. The consumer becomes the owner and lord of production, without the assistance of a government or capitalist.

Socialism due to technology is inevitable it's just a question of when. Again, it might be in 25 years, or 250 years, but it will happen.

View attachment 885656

View attachment 885657​

Wow...speaking as a history major...is ANY of the lengthy diatribe you just forced me to read based even slightly on actual events? You hold forth on how great Communism is while you totally ignore the reality of it! Take one part of the assistance given to Stalin by the US...the 400,000 trucks that were provided as part of the Lend-Lease program. Those trucks not only helped the Soviets to defeat the Nazis...they were a crucial part of the Soviet economy following the war! The Soviets NEVER paid for those trucks! They were supposed to but they never did. That debt wasn't paid until the 1990's by Russia.

 

[beagle9]

That's what I have been saying for a very long time.

Eliminate all deductions, credits, and exemptions and presto! You have a postcard tax return. And your tax rate would be MUCH lower.

That is the ONLY way to achieve it.

No incentives for investors eh ? So it's either you hate the wealth creators in this country or it is that you just want a communist nation that has it's oligarchs along with a wealth controlling government who feeds them, and this you want while the serfs grow in poverty numbers by leaps and bounds. We have or have had the best system in the world as a model, but you are fighting against the idea of MAGA because of being brainwashed by devil's who need you to be brainwashed.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Wow...speaking as a history major...is ANY of the lengthy diatribe you just forced me to read based even slightly on actual events? You hold forth on how great Communism is while you totally ignore the reality of it! Take one part of the assistance given to Stalin by the US...the 400,000 trucks that were provided as part of the Lend-Lease program. Those trucks not only helped the Soviets to defeat the Nazis...they were a crucial part of the Soviet economy following the war! The Soviets NEVER paid for those trucks! They were supposed to but they never did. That debt wasn't paid until the 1990's by Russia.

Wow...speaking as a history major...is ANY of the lengthy diatribe you just forced me to read based even slightly on actual events? You hold forth on how great Communism is while you totally ignore the reality of it!

I "hold forth" how "great communism is" while totally ignoring the reality of it. Let's see what you "hold forth" as the reality of communism.

Take one part of the assistance given to Stalin by the US...the 400,000 trucks that were provided as part of the Lend-Lease program. Those trucks not only helped the Soviets to defeat the Nazis...they were a crucial part of the Soviet economy following the war!

Wow, the Allies sent weapons and supplies to Soviet Russia, to help it fight those four million Nazis that invaded them. I guess the Soviets didn't do much after all, huh? Have you ever taken a course in logic?

"Roosevelt on December 8, 1940, proposed the concept of lend-lease, and the U.S. Congress passed his Lend-Lease Act in March 1941. This legislation gave the president the authority to aid any nation whose defense he believed vital to the United States and to accept repayment “in kind or property, or any other direct or indirect benefit which the President deems satisfactory.” Though lend-lease had been authorized primarily in an effort to aid Britain, it was extended to China in April and to the Soviet Union in September. The principal recipients of aid were the British Commonwealth countries (about 63 percent) and the Soviet Union (about 22 percent), though by the end of the war more than 40 countries had received lend-lease help. Much of the aid, valued at $49.1 billion, amounted to outright gifts. Some of the cost of the lend-lease program was offset by so-called reverse lend-lease, under which Allied nations gave U.S. troops stationed abroad about $8 billion worth of aid."

I'm not diminishing the value and importance of the assistance the US gave its Soviet ally in WW2, but nonetheless, it should be mentioned that the Soviets had to fight most of Nazi Germany's military, being that 7 out of 10 Nazis were deployed on the Eastern Front against the USSR. We lost 0.03% of our population, approximately 460K Americans whereas the Soviets lost 28 million (17 million civilians and 9 million soldiers, approximately 14% of its population). The lend-lease program was a great deal for the USA. Many baby boomers would probably not be alive today, if not for the Soviet victory over Nazi Germany.

To pretend that the US sending the USSR assistance during the war somehow magically nullifies the great sacrifice the Soviets made in their fight against the Nazis is quite illogical if not disingenuous. The fact is that the Soviets had a sufficient industrial base in Siberia to support their war effort, hence the American lend-lease assistance wasn't the deciding factor in the Soviets repelling the Germans from their country and invading Germany.

February 04, 1943 - Franklin D Roosevelt - His Letter to Stalin:

"As commander in chief of the Armed Forces of the United States of America, I congratulate you on the brilliant victory at Stalingrad of the armies under your supreme command. The 162 days of epic battle for the city which has forever honored your name and the decisive result that all Americans are celebrating today will remain one of the proudest chapters in this war of the peoples united against Nazism and its emulators.

The commanders and fighters of your armies at the front and the men and women who have supported them in factory and field have combined not only to cover with glory their country's arms, but to inspire by their example fresh determination among all the United Nations to bend every energy to bring about the final defeat and unconditional surrender of the common enemy."

Franklin D. Roosevelt, Congratulations to Marshal Stalin on the Russian Victory at Stalingrad Online by Gerhard Peters and John T. Woolley, The American Presidency Project Congratulations to Marshal Stalin on the Russian Victory at Stalingrad | The American Presidency Project

Department of State Bulletin, November 8, 1941.
Franklin D Roosevelt states:

"We realize fully how vitally important to the defeat of Hitlerism is the brave and steadfast resistance of the Soviet Union and we feel therefore that we must not in any circumstances fail to act quickly and immediately in this matter on planning the program for the future allocation of our joint resources."

There was a lot more to the Soviet victory than just the lend-lease program. To believe otherwise is silly.

 

[j-mac]

If he takes it all, and makes you a slave, then that's exactly where one's faith is tested.

Fear not what man can do to any of us upon this earth, but rather pack up anything he wants, and carry it before him to take. Trust me that he might take it, but he won't keep it.

Rendering on to Caeser that which is Caeser's, doesn't say that you are to render on to him that which doesn't belong to him, but it says to "render on to him that which belongs to him".

10% is good enough for God, it should be good enough for Caeser…

 

[j-mac]

How much is far different than an argument that one doesn't want to pay at all for the things they use.

That’s a dodge…Why is it you people never put a number on it?

 

[Markle]

Truly wealthy people have tremendous flexibility in whether or when they recognize income. If their wealth is largely in real estate, they get tremendous breaks that are not accessible to other sorts of investors.

The fact remains that, "payroll" taxes aside, the working class pays very little in FIT, and actually has nothing to complain about. The bottom half of the population pays less than three percent of the total FIT taxes each year.

Like it or not, the Tax Code has been written by the Peoples' representatives in Congress. In effect, it is YOU who make the tax laws.

Specifically please, what breaks are available to the "truly wealthy" that are not available to anyone owning real estate?

 

[Markle]

They have to pay 39% of their income in taxes, and unfortunately, many of them end up paying very little, if anything, due to having their money hidden in tax havens abroad and manipulating the system. The uber-wealthy sponsor bills in Congress that create a ton of legal loopholes that allow them to skirt taxes,hardly paying anything. This has to end and they have to start paying their fair share.

I'm for tax-cut incentives for employers who raise wages, improve working conditions, lower the cost of living, allow their employees to unionize, keep their businesses here in the US, and don't move them to Mexico. I'm a reasonable socialist. If a capitalist is a job-creator who pays good wages and is pro-labor, I will be in favor of him or her paying much less in taxes. Unfortunately, most of the big-money capitalists aren't like that. They're all about "numero uno", "me, myself, and I".

IF that is true, how does this happen?

 

[Markle]

You don`t know an effing thing about me. STFU

 

[Markle]

Can Americans legally travel today to Cuba and other nations that it has deemed America's enemies? If the US was once invaded by communist powers as Soviet Russia was in 1918 by the US, Britain, and France, among other capitalist powers, and then economically sanctioned and encircled, it might also have its own so-called "iron curtain", prohibiting its citizens from traveling outside its borders. Anyways..

After WW2, the US was essentially unscathed thanks to being surrounded by two vast oceans. The Soviet Union was invaded by 4 million Germans and lost 28 million of its citizens, of which 19 million were civilians with 9 million KIA on the battlefield. It lost about 14% of its population. Much of Soviet Russia's infrastructure was decimated, forcing them to rebuild without any assistance from the United States or any other country. They had to pick themselves up by their bootstraps. Uncle Sam had no "Marshal Plan" for the Soviets, but rather economic sanctions and a cold war-arms race.

The Soviet, socialist experiment had great accomplishments but it was a young country with a new political, economic, and social system, which required a commitment from its citizens, to contribute to its development (Marxist marketless socialism had never been tried before at a national scale).

Brain drain was a problem, because the US, which became the manufacturing hub of the world after WW2, with the most prosperous working class in the world (A "middle class"), was extremely enticing for a considerable number of the USSR's scientists, academia, and intelligentsia. They could easily move to the US and Western Europe and yes, enjoy a higher standard of living, as far as material goods and access to resources. Without a doubt, I don't deny that. The Iron Curtain was a means to stop such people from defecting (escaping), into the West, and taking their expertise and secrets with them to the enemy. An enemy who had been invading Soviet Russia and killing socialists since its birth in 1917.

The Soviets were essentially in a state of war for all of its 75 years with well-developed, powerful capitalist-run nations, except for a few years in the 1930s when all of the West was under a great economic depression. In the 1930s the "brain drain" was in reverse, with a considerable number of Western engineers and scientists migrating to the Soviet Union. Many Soviets were trained by Western engineers and scientists in the 1930s.

Socialistas didn't want to spend a considerable % of their resources on their military, they preferred to allocate that to infrastructural development and social services, unfortunately, after WW2 the wealthy American ruling elites who were forced in the 1930s by FDR into a "new deal" as a result of pressure from below, namely the American working class through a grassroots socialist-run labor movement:

​

Decided to exact their revenge on American socialists and of course the USSR (i.e. United Soviet Socialist Republic).

​

The golden age of the US economy in the 1950s and 60s took place when the American workforce had the highest labor union membership in its history with good pay and a host of benefits providing it with the highest standard of living in the world. The CEOs of the largest corporations made an average of about 20x the salary of their average employee whereas today in 2023 they make as much as 1000x more and the working class can barely support themselves with one income, if at all. The tax rate back then for all who made over 200K anually was 91%. Regardless of whether the effective tax rate or what the wealthy actually paid was lower than the official, marginal tax rate, the rich still paid more than what they do today.

Why is it that the wealthy ruling elites have so much power today and the working class is barely scraping by? After WW2 America's big-money elites set out to reverse most of the gains of the "New Deal" and make sure progressive, socialist policies never influence or set the standard for the economy. The break up of labor unions, the gutting of the American manufacturing base in exchange for cheaper, lower-quality, foreign-produced consumer goods (turning American factories into product-distribution centers for imported products), stagnant wages, fewer worker rights, with a higher cost of living:

​

The US was in a fortunate, unique position politically and economically after WW2, turning the USD into the world's reserve currency and becoming the world's main source of products. The American ruling elite set out to take back control of the US government and economy, and by the early 1980s, they achieved that, leading to the economic and political conditions we're in now. The Soviets lost the Cold War, after being burned out by the West's relentless effort to destroy it. Starting in the late 1950s, several years after the death of Stalin, the Soviets began to "reform" and thirty years later that led to its demise. The USSR was dissolved. Does that imply socialism and its objective, communism, failed? No, why would any thoughtful person believe that?

Did capitalism replace chattel slavery and feudalism overnight? It took centuries for the mercantile class and its Republicanism to take hold in Europe, replacing its monarchs and royal aristocracy. Material conditions had to be in place allowing the merchants to become the powerful industrialists of the 19th century, supporting parliamentary governance and greater freedom for everyone, including their employees (i.e. Working Class). If marketless socialism is going to replace market capitalism, do you believe it will occur with one single swoop of the sword or a single experiment like the USSR? No, most likely it won't.

I will argue that marketless socialism is the inevitable outcome of advanced automation and artificial intelligence. Powerful computers, advanced intelligent robotics, eventually forces society by necessity to adopt a non-profit, more democratic system of production. It might take 25 more years for that to happen, or maybe even 100+ years,but eventually, at a national scale, we;re going to have to adopt socialism in order to survive and thrive. The final end of this process leads to the individual consumer having complete control over the means of production. The ability to manufacture everything from home.

One day, thanks to technology, the American consumer is going to be able to draw water from the air (we have technology that can do that today). Provide themselves with their electricity through a micro-nuclear reactor (i.e. A fusion or advanced fission reactor) and produce all of their food, clothing, and housing (in the future real estate or the practice of living in one place permanently will become boring and obsolete, people will be mobile, living in communities/colonies of large vehicles of various kinds).

Oh OK, this government is being too overbearing, violating my freedoms, hence I'm packing up and going somewhere else. I don't need government services, I have the technology to survive and thrive with my family, anywhere I choose to settle. I can go to the asteroid belts and survive and thrive, I don't need an intrusive, overbearing government micromanaging my life.

Withering away of the state - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"Communism (from Latin communis, 'common, universal')[1][2] is a left-wing to far-left sociopolitical, philosophical, and economic ideology within the socialist movement,[1] whose goal is the creation of a communist society, a socioeconomic order centered around common ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange that allocates products to everyone in the society based on need.[3][4][5] A communist society would entail the absence of private property and social classes,[1] and ultimately money[6][non-primary source needed] and the state (or nation state).[7][8][9]"

Communism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Private property isn't personal property. Private property is essentially that which you employ within a capitalist market system to generate a profit or exploit other human beings for monetary gain. It's not your house, your vehicle/s, your PC, your phone, your fruit of the looms, tooth brush..etc.

Socialism according to Karl Marx and Fredrick Engels, leads to the "withering away of the state". The power of the government is greatly diminished due to public access to technology. The consumer becomes the owner and lord of production, without the assistance of a government or capitalist.

Socialism due to technology is inevitable it's just a question of when. Again, it might be in 25 years, or 250 years, but it will happen.

View attachment 885656

View attachment 885657​

 

[kyzr]

IF that is true, how does this happen?

The bottom 50% of incomes have no wealth. They do need help in Biden's inflated economy.
Households are paying $709/month more due to Biden's inflation. The wealthy can afford to pay more taxes.

 

[Markle]

We did not need income taxes for it

What paid for our Interstates?

 

[kyzr]

What paid for our Interstates?

Defense (under Ike)

 

[pknopp]

That’s a dodge…Why is it you people never put a number on it?

Because none of us here are budget experts. Yours is the dodge.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Even better, just place me on ignore. Click "ignore".