This is why we need to tax the wealthy

[pknopp]

I'm not anti-American, I'm anti-imperialism and zombie capitalism. I want America to succeed, not fail.

And we are going to fall on our greed.

 

[TruthNotBS]

And we are going to fall on our greed.

How do you define greed? What greed are you referring to?

 

[pknopp]

How do you define greed? What greed are you referring to?

I believe you understand.

 

[TruthNotBS]

I believe you understand.

We strengthen America by making it more self-sufficient and productive. The US Federal Government can greatly contribute to that by allocating funds to projects that build our national infrastructure and serve the public's need for vital services like healthcare, education, housing, employment, public transportation, SBA loans for entrepreneurs and labor cooperatives..etc.

We should also get out of NATO and stop poking the bear and the dragon. We should become allies with Russia and China, not an enemy.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

I don’t care that it isnt fair. You should have picked that up by now.

I did pick it up. I'm trying to convey to you how fucked up it is.

I don’t need to justify it being fair. I haven’t even tried to explain to you why it is fair. It’s besides my point as to why the rich should be taxed more.

Exactly. Which means that ultimately, fairness in law means nothing to you.

If you're willing to compromise fairness and equal application of the law on this issue, what else are you willing to compromise?

Their constitutional rights are irrelevant to how much they are taxed.

But they are entitled to equal application of the law, yes?

Different laws apply to different people so you can’t put them all in the same umbrella of law protection.

You mean like they did before the Civil Rights Act was signed into law, when blacks didn't have the right to vote?

As an example, it is illegal for a high school teacher to have a sexual relationship with an 18 year old student.

The teacher has responsibilities as a teacher and a relationship would be disruptive to the student's education.

Your argument for unfairly taxing the rich at a higher rate essentially boils down to: They have more money than I do.

There is no logical principle or reasoning behind your argument, especially when you consider that the government got themselves in this mess in the first place and people like you and I stood by and watched.

If the current deficit was directly or indirectly a result of not taxing the rich enough (whatever that might be) then you might have a point. But the current deficit is what it is because 1.) Americans are greedy for their bullshit programs and 2.) the government can't manage finances worth a fuck.

But now you want the rich to fix a problem you, I and everyone else helped create.

Any other adult could have a relationship with an 18 year old student. Laws do not always apply across the board to the same people.

Irrelevant. Any law that is applied differently is because people in certain jobs or positions have certain responsibilities. The rich have the same responsibilities we do to earn money fairly and honestly and pay taxes. Outside of that, they have no additional responsibilities.

 

[Markle]

Remember Biden saying the "rich would pay their fair share"?

Republicans run up the debt also. Like the Democrats they don't want to pay it off.

 

[Markle]

We should also get out of NATO and stop poking the bear and the dragon. We should become allies with Russia and China, not an enemy.

Specifically, please, how do we become allies with two countries whose ultimate goal is to destroy us and absorb us into their country? For that, China is a far greater threat, and Russia is probably a far greater threat to start WW III. China plans to force us to turn over the keys, not unlike when a player resigns in a chess game. No moves are remaining.

 

[Markle]

The so-called national debt is a surplus for the private sector. The government's red ink is the people's black ink or surplus. Stephanie Kelton a professor in economics and expert on macroeconomics explains:

Michael Norman is also an economist and explains what the national debt actually is:





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Balance the budget and that means less money in private hands, which historically, leads to a recession. Every single time the budget is balanced, there's a recession within two or three years. There's less money in the economy.

 

[Markle]

We can do a lot. Do as Biden said and make those who can afford it, pay for it.

If raising taxes resulted in higher revenues, why does reducing taxes result in higher revenues?

Do you believe that punishing a particular behavior will result in more or less of that behavior? What about rewarding a particular behavior?

 

[Markle]

And we are going to fall on our greed.

Do you agree that there is good and bad greed and that we all are greedy to some extent?

 

[pknopp]

We strengthen America by making it more self-sufficient and productive. The US Federal Government can greatly contribute to that by allocating funds to projects that build our national infrastructure and serve the public's need for vital services like healthcare, education, housing, employment, public transportation, SBA loans for entrepreneurs and labor cooperatives..etc.

I have no problem with that. Pay for it.

We should also get out of NATO and stop poking the bear and the dragon. We should become allies with Russia and China, not an enemy.

We should strive to get along with every other country. We need to quit bombing.

 

[pknopp]

And I have condemned all of that. That doesn't dispute what I said in any way though.

 

[pknopp]

If raising taxes resulted in higher revenues, why does reducing taxes result in higher revenues?

Do you believe that punishing a particular behavior will result in more or less of that behavior? What about rewarding a particular behavior?

I've explained all of this more than once already. Read the thread.

 

[pknopp]

Do you agree that there is good and bad greed and that we all are greedy to some extent?

Good greed? Not sure I agree with that.

 

[TruthNotBS]

I have no problem with that. Pay for it.



We should strive to get along with every other country. We need to quit bombing.

The US Federal Government has more than enough money to cover the cost of everything I mentioned. We don't need to raise the federal income taxes above what it is already to pay for it. If we raise the income tax back to what it was in the 1950s and early 60s, at 91%, there would be benefits, but it's not due to the rich funding the US Federal Government, or facilitating its ability to spend USD. It has other positive effects on the economy, not related to provisioning or providing the federal government with something it doesn't have.

The US Federal Government always has USD, because it creates it ex-nihilo, it doesn't need you, me, or Jeff Bezos to fund it.

 

[pknopp]

The US Federal Government has more than enough money to cover the cost of everything I mentioned. We don't need to raise the federal income taxes above what it is already to pay for it. If we raise the income tax back to what it was in the 1950s and early 60s, at 91%, there would be benefits, but it's not due to the rich funding the US Federal Government, or facilitating its ability to spend USD. It has other positive effects on the economy, not related to provisioning or providing the federal government with something it doesn't have.

The US Federal Government always has USD, because it creates it ex-nihilo, it doesn't need you, me, or Jeff Bezos to fund it.

Then quit wasting money on stupid wars.

 

[Mac-7]

Your concern about the national debt is based on ignorance of how economics works with a modern, fiat currency. Our so-called "national debt", isn't the same as a household debt or the debt of a private corporation, because the US Federal Government is the exclusive sovereign issuer of our currency, not a mere user like you and me. Do you realize that?

We shouldn't even call it a debt, we could just as well call it an asset surplus. Do you realize that? We're no longer under the gold standard, hence national debts are simply ledgers of how much money is being saved in treasuries, held in bank accounts. etc. Our federal government will never go insolvent.

The government's red ink is the people's black ink or surplus. Stephanie Kelton a professor in economics and expert on macroeconomics explains:

Michael Norman is also an economist and explains what the national debt actually is:






​

This is one of the reasons I'm not that concerned with tax rates at the federal level. The federal government imposes taxes, taking money out of the economy, to control inflation, and maintain the value of the dollar. Federal taxes are important, but not for the same reason as most Americans think. The US Federal Government doesn't have to rely on our taxes to fund itself, due to the nature of a sovereign, fiat currency. It will never run out of USD, because it is the exclusive issuer of it. The most important metric that sets federal government spending is the nation's GDP i.e. production capacity. Our ability to meet the nation's demand for products and services.

Watch Greenspan, the head of the FED educate House Rep Paul Ryan, a confused, young conservative Senator from Wisconsin:

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GDP, the nation's production capacity determines its budget limits, not tax revenue. If the US Federal Government allocates funds to projects and programs that strengthen the working class, our nation's GDP grows (i.e. Our nation's production capacity expands). There's no need to cut or decrease funding for any social program, especially for Medicare and Medicaid. That would undermine the nation's health (i.e. Access to medical care) and hence production capacity. You would be applying unnecessary stress to the American public at large (i.e. The Working Class = Workers = Producers, including small business owners.) hence undermining production.

Stop hanging out with Paul Ryan, he's confusing you.

You are assuming that the world will always want to buy our debt at low interest rates

But at some point they may not want to and much higher interest on the debt will choke off all your beloved welfare giveaways

I dont know when that will be

But when it does it will be a bitch

 

[Markle]

Good greed? Not sure I agree with that.

How would anything be accomplished?

I was in a highly competitive profession for over 45 years. I was a Realtor here in Florida—no salary for all those years, only commission. I was rabidly greedy. I wanted to win every single listing appointment and take that listing from any other agent. Every other agent wanted to do the same with me.

What job did you have that you didn't want to earn as much as possible? Isn't that greed? Of course, it is.

Does Ford not want 99.9% of the worldwide auto sales market? Do the other automakers not wish to do the same?

 

[Markle]

Then quit wasting money on stupid wars.

Tell that to President Biden. He is costing us trillions in lost wars and two new wars and now North and South Korea are lobbing missiles at each other.

 

[pknopp]

How would anything be accomplished?

How would it not?

I was in a highly competitive profession for over 45 years. I was a Realtor here in Florida—no salary for all those years, only commission. I was rabidly greedy. I wanted to win every single listing appointment and take that listing from any other agent. Every other agent wanted to do the same with me.

What job did you have that you didn't want to earn as much as possible? Isn't that greed? Of course, it is.

Does Ford not want 99.9% of the worldwide auto sales market? Do the other automakers not wish to do the same?

Maybe that's why auto dealers are constantly in poor financial shape?