This one is for the gun grabbers. Explain this.

[2aguy]

Yeah.......except the actual research says you are wrong.....

Self defense with a gun......40 years of actual research...first is the name of the group that conducted the research, then the year, then the number of defensive gun uses and finally wether the research contained police or military defensive gun uses....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

Posting a lie doesn't make it true. Learn some common sense.

Then you should stop posting lies.

Notice that two of those studies....one was from the Department of Justice under bill clinton......and another was done by obama's Centers for Disease control in 2013 that looked at all gun research....those are listed.......tell me they are lying....

They are lying because it's absolutely impossible to get any good numbers. That's like counting how many clouds in the sky. You can guess but that's all it is. Common sense, when mostly Americans don't even own a gun, says they aren't used 1.5 million times a year in self defense. That's just some idiot pulling out his gun because a black kid walking home from the store minding is own business scares your pathetic white ass.

That is 40 years of research...over 40 now, by professional researchers, many of them anti gun researchers trying to prove your point...and they can't......anti gunners stated guns were used 1,500,000 times a year....and that is backed up by the other research as well...

You are more than welcome to believe your propaganda but it's still pro-gun ownership propaganda.

How is bill clinton's Department of Justice study, done by two anti gun researchers, propaganda? How is obama's CDC pro gun?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

If guns solved crime there wouldn't be any here.

Detectives "solve" crimes.....Guns PREVENT Crimes.

But neither detectives nor guns can prevent ALL crime.
By your logic.....If LAWS prevented crime there would be no crime.

Crime exists laws or no laws, guns or no guns. More laws and more guns do not solve crime, neither do more prisons.

Guns may not solve all crime, but they do prevent many.

 

[2aguy]

Posting a lie doesn't make it true. Learn some common sense.

Then you should stop posting lies.

Notice that two of those studies....one was from the Department of Justice under bill clinton......and another was done by obama's Centers for Disease control in 2013 that looked at all gun research....those are listed.......tell me they are lying....

They are lying because it's absolutely impossible to get any good numbers. That's like counting how many clouds in the sky. You can guess but that's all it is. Common sense, when mostly Americans don't even own a gun, says they aren't used 1.5 million times a year in self defense. That's just some idiot pulling out his gun because a black kid walking home from the store minding is own business scares your pathetic white ass.

I find myself wondering how many people have you on their ignore list. You've just been added to mine. You keep spamming stupidity, forcing me to check my alerts every two minutes. You will no longer waste my valuable time. Good riddance.

I won't put this person on ignore because I use their posts to get the truth out.....even when they are really annoying like this one and brain....

Knock yourself out. I just can't stand seeing alerts every few minutes, then finding out it's the same idiot.

That's how they took over hollywood, education and the law......we get tired, they are like the terminator..they never, ever, quit.....

 

[KatieK]

If guns solved crime there wouldn't be any here.

Detectives "solve" crimes.....Guns PREVENT Crimes.

But neither detectives nor guns can prevent ALL crime.
By your logic.....If LAWS prevented crime there would be no crime.

Crime exists laws or no laws, guns or no guns. More laws and more guns do not solve crime, neither do more prisons.

Guns may not solve all crime, but they do prevent many.

They prevent jack shit but they do kill 30,000 Americans each year. That we can get good numbers on because all we have to do is count up the dead bodies.

 

[KatieK]

Posting a lie doesn't make it true. Learn some common sense.

Then you should stop posting lies.

Notice that two of those studies....one was from the Department of Justice under bill clinton......and another was done by obama's Centers for Disease control in 2013 that looked at all gun research....those are listed.......tell me they are lying....

They are lying because it's absolutely impossible to get any good numbers. That's like counting how many clouds in the sky. You can guess but that's all it is. Common sense, when mostly Americans don't even own a gun, says they aren't used 1.5 million times a year in self defense. That's just some idiot pulling out his gun because a black kid walking home from the store minding is own business scares your pathetic white ass.

That is 40 years of research...over 40 now, by professional researchers, many of them anti gun researchers trying to prove your point...and they can't......anti gunners stated guns were used 1,500,000 times a year....and that is backed up by the other research as well...

You are more than welcome to believe your propaganda but it's still pro-gun ownership propaganda.

How is bill clinton's Department of Justice study, done by two anti gun researchers, propaganda? How is obama's CDC pro gun?

It's propaganda because you use it as propaganda, to try to protect your right to be armed so you can feel like a real man instead of what you are, a scared little boy in a man's world.

 

[2aguy]

If guns solved crime there wouldn't be any here.

Detectives "solve" crimes.....Guns PREVENT Crimes.

But neither detectives nor guns can prevent ALL crime.
By your logic.....If LAWS prevented crime there would be no crime.

Crime exists laws or no laws, guns or no guns. More laws and more guns do not solve crime, neither do more prisons.

Guns may not solve all crime, but they do prevent many.

They prevent jack shit but they do kill 30,000 Americans each year. That we can get good numbers on because all we have to do is count up the dead bodies.

Yeah....here is the truth to that number...you should do some research...

Gun suicide..

Leading Causes of Death | WISQARS | Injury Center | CDC

2015
Gun suicide...

22,018

Non Gun suicide...

22,078
========================

Gun Accidental death.....
2015

489

==================

Gun murder ( 70-80% of the victims of gun murder are actual criminals, not law abiding people)

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8


2015--

9,616

=======================

Suicide
Japan, Korea, China, all have absolute gun control for law abiding citizens...only criminals and cops can have guns.......and they have higher suicide rates than we do....and our non-gun suicide rate has been higher than our gun suicide rate for 2 years in a row.....

Gun Accidental Death...

Gun accidents....in a country with over 320,000,000 people...... with 400,000,000 guns in private hands, and over 15,700,000 people carrying guns for self defense..... 489 accidental gun deaths....

Gun murder
Of the 9,616 gun murders in this country, 70-80% of the victims are criminals, engaged in criminal activity or part of the criminal life style....and of the remaining victims....many of them are friends and family of the criminal...caught up in the criminal's lifestyle.....

Non-fatal gun accidents....
WISQARS Nonfatal Injury Reports

CDC non fatal gun accident.....

2001.... 17,696

2002... 17,579

2003... 18,941

2004... 16,555

2005... 15,388

2006... 14,678

2007... 15,698

2008... 17,215

2009... 18,610

2010... 14,161

2011... 14,675

2012... 17,362

2013... 16,864

2014..... 15,928

2015... 17,311

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Nationally we get more concealed carry and:
FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

NYC keeps strong gun control:
New York City Had Record-Low Crime Rate in 2016

From your post:

New York Police Department brass attribute some of decrease in violent crime to gang takedowns (the city saw its biggest bust in April 2016), and according to the New York Times, big reductions in gang-related shootings and killings helped drive the overall numbers down.

New York City’s relatively rosy stats stand out in stark contrast to other big cities, namely Chicago. The Windy City witnessed its bloodiest year in two decades: 762 murdered, and more than 4,300 shot. The increase is staggering. The homicide rate spiked 60 percent from 2015. The number of shootings leapt by more than 1,000. The number of people killed in Chicago is greater than that of New York and Los Angeles, combined.

New York City’s relatively rosy stats stand out in stark contrast to other big cities, namely Chicago. The Windy City witnessed its bloodiest year in two decades: 762 murdered, and more than 4,300 shot. The increase is staggering. The homicide rate spiked 60 percent from 2015. The number of shootings leapt by more than 1,000. The number of people killed in Chicago is greater than that of New York and Los Angeles, combined.

To summarize, the police attributed their decline not because of guns, but because of their success with getting gangs off the street. Chicago, Baltimore, LA???? Wait a minute! Aren't those places in big anti-gun states?

Exactly, they actually targeted real criminals.....they didn't focus on law abiding people who don't commit crimes.....brain is a f*****g troll........and now New York is getting rid of all the lessons they were taught by Guiliani and his team...so their crime rates are going to go up...

I agree. It takes a while for the criminals to learn what's going on in their world; it's not like most criminals sit around watching the news every day. Stop and Frisk is still the law of the land because they have not caught up yet.....but they will.

It's also a good article because it demonstrates that people are the problem--not the guns. If you take a community of good people, give every single one of them a firearm, there won't be an increase in crime. If it were possible to take every gun away from every criminal, they would get better using knives and bats. It won't change a thing.

 

[2aguy]

Then you should stop posting lies.

Notice that two of those studies....one was from the Department of Justice under bill clinton......and another was done by obama's Centers for Disease control in 2013 that looked at all gun research....those are listed.......tell me they are lying....

They are lying because it's absolutely impossible to get any good numbers. That's like counting how many clouds in the sky. You can guess but that's all it is. Common sense, when mostly Americans don't even own a gun, says they aren't used 1.5 million times a year in self defense. That's just some idiot pulling out his gun because a black kid walking home from the store minding is own business scares your pathetic white ass.

That is 40 years of research...over 40 now, by professional researchers, many of them anti gun researchers trying to prove your point...and they can't......anti gunners stated guns were used 1,500,000 times a year....and that is backed up by the other research as well...

You are more than welcome to believe your propaganda but it's still pro-gun ownership propaganda.

How is bill clinton's Department of Justice study, done by two anti gun researchers, propaganda? How is obama's CDC pro gun?

It's propaganda because you use it as propaganda, to try to protect your right to be armed so you can feel like a real man instead of what you are, a scared little boy in a man's world.

facts and truth aren't propaganda.....lying about gun use in the United States using propaganda, the way you guys do...that is vile...

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Wyoming has more guns per capita than any other state. They have open carry, and you do not need a permit to carry concealed. Yet the crime rate is 40 percent less than the national average, with some cities well below that. Some of them are among the safest places to live in America. So, if guns are the problem, as you believe, why aren't people being gunned down in the streets?

This fails as a false comparison fallacy.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

What's wrong with our background check system as it is now?

cause all i have to do is answer no to all but 1 question here in texas so no idea what that's about. then they run my SS# - just what are they looking for?

why are people opposed to looking into how we do background checks?

Well, it's because I understand liberals, that's why. Let me explain, and please excuse my lack of brevity here:

I was a kid when gay rights was introduced. Back then, they told us all they wanted was to be let out of the closet. So we did. Today they are forcing themselves into our military, forced us to accept their marriages in states that forbade it, and are adopting children.

I remember when the anti-smokers just wanted no smoking in movie theaters. That's all they claimed to have wanted, and they will be happy. Today smoking is forbidden in most public places. There are parks and beaches where smoking is prohibited. Nobody told the law makers that parks and beaches were outside. Now some places won't give you a job if you're a smoker, and nobody even makes a car or truck with ashtrays anymore.

I remember when the environmentalists insisted we get rid of lead in our gasoline. That's all they wanted, and they would be happy. Today we have spent trillions of dollars making everything "greener" and they are complaining now more than ever.

The point is, when it comes to liberal agendas, there is no "we just want X" Because after X comes Y, and after Y comes Z, then Z+, then Z++ and so on.

To put it another way, let's say Hillary won the presidency, and she filled the courts with leftist judges all the way up to the Supreme Court. Do you really believe for one minute our rights to own firearms would be protected in five years or so from now?

and yep. i do agree that is a large part of why there is ZERO give from the gun side.

1) liberals don't know what they want to ban. if it looks scary, ban it. trouble is, they never define "Scary" and when they do, it changes to fit their mood.
2) they have zero knowledge that an AR15 is NOT an automatic weapon. hell, it wasn't even an "assault rifle" until liberals forces changing the meaning of words so they could be "right"
3) i don't trust obama for shit - when you say green tipped 223 is armor piercing you just told anyone with any knowledge at all what a fucktard you are. it's was all "if i cant get the gun i'll get the bullets" and nothing more.

so i do agree that if you want "common sense gun talk" you usually have to leave liberals out of it.

guess that just paints us into a corner and is what can be frustrating to me.

Liberals don't have a problem with the guns themselves. Liberals just don't like us having the ability to protect ourselves with guns. Thats their real problem.

Stupid comments from the gun babbas I'm use to but this is a couple of steps above stupid.

So would you care to explain why Democrats want our guns so badly? Or would you like me to give you several examples on how liberals create victims?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

What's wrong with our background check system as it is now?

cause all i have to do is answer no to all but 1 question here in texas so no idea what that's about. then they run my SS# - just what are they looking for?

why are people opposed to looking into how we do background checks?

Well, it's because I understand liberals, that's why. Let me explain, and please excuse my lack of brevity here:

I was a kid when gay rights was introduced. Back then, they told us all they wanted was to be let out of the closet. So we did. Today they are forcing themselves into our military, forced us to accept their marriages in states that forbade it, and are adopting children.

I remember when the anti-smokers just wanted no smoking in movie theaters. That's all they claimed to have wanted, and they will be happy. Today smoking is forbidden in most public places. There are parks and beaches where smoking is prohibited. Nobody told the law makers that parks and beaches were outside. Now some places won't give you a job if you're a smoker, and nobody even makes a car or truck with ashtrays anymore.

I remember when the environmentalists insisted we get rid of lead in our gasoline. That's all they wanted, and they would be happy. Today we have spent trillions of dollars making everything "greener" and they are complaining now more than ever.

The point is, when it comes to liberal agendas, there is no "we just want X" Because after X comes Y, and after Y comes Z, then Z+, then Z++ and so on.

To put it another way, let's say Hillary won the presidency, and she filled the courts with leftist judges all the way up to the Supreme Court. Do you really believe for one minute our rights to own firearms would be protected in five years or so from now?

Yes obama was going to take all the guns. Funny

You don't think he would of if he could? That's the point I'm making.

You people are complete idiots there is no threat to the second amendment , there are just a lot regulations that need to be added. Tell me how there is a threat to the 2nd when I can buy and own and shoot a Machine gun and buy and shoot a piece of artillery with shells to put in my front yard on display. You are all idiots.

You can buy a machine gun? Where and how?

 

[Reasonable]

At the risk of sounding racist by simply calling things as they are, what percentage of the population is white in comparison to other states?

You don’t have risk sounding racist. It’s who you are.

 

[2aguy]

Nationally we get more concealed carry and:
FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

NYC keeps strong gun control:
New York City Had Record-Low Crime Rate in 2016

From your post:

New York Police Department brass attribute some of decrease in violent crime to gang takedowns (the city saw its biggest bust in April 2016), and according to the New York Times, big reductions in gang-related shootings and killings helped drive the overall numbers down.

New York City’s relatively rosy stats stand out in stark contrast to other big cities, namely Chicago. The Windy City witnessed its bloodiest year in two decades: 762 murdered, and more than 4,300 shot. The increase is staggering. The homicide rate spiked 60 percent from 2015. The number of shootings leapt by more than 1,000. The number of people killed in Chicago is greater than that of New York and Los Angeles, combined.

New York City’s relatively rosy stats stand out in stark contrast to other big cities, namely Chicago. The Windy City witnessed its bloodiest year in two decades: 762 murdered, and more than 4,300 shot. The increase is staggering. The homicide rate spiked 60 percent from 2015. The number of shootings leapt by more than 1,000. The number of people killed in Chicago is greater than that of New York and Los Angeles, combined.

To summarize, the police attributed their decline not because of guns, but because of their success with getting gangs off the street. Chicago, Baltimore, LA???? Wait a minute! Aren't those places in big anti-gun states?

Exactly, they actually targeted real criminals.....they didn't focus on law abiding people who don't commit crimes.....brain is a f*****g troll........and now New York is getting rid of all the lessons they were taught by Guiliani and his team...so their crime rates are going to go up...

I agree. It takes a while for the criminals to learn what's going on in their world; it's not like most criminals sit around watching the news every day. Stop and Frisk is still the law of the land because they have not caught up yet.....but they will.

It's also a good article because it demonstrates that people are the problem--not the guns. If you take a community of good people, give every single one of them a firearm, there won't be an increase in crime. If it were possible to take every gun away from every criminal, they would get better using knives and bats. It won't change a thing.

I focus on Britain because their news services are a little easier to deal with....but I didn't think about Europe as a whole...the entire Continent went through World War 2, and they all had monarchies.....the combination of the destruction from the war, and the class system where commoners deferred to authority slowed down their criminal culture. My parents lived in Germany in the 60s....it was backwards compared to the U.S........so they were behind in everything......

The point is this....because of the War and their Culture, they were able to postpone their increase in violent crime....we didn't suffer those effects and didn't have the culture of subservience to government...we had the opposite.....so we had a massive crime spike in the 1960s because out of wedlock birthrates started to go up.....and they brought on violent crime....

Europe....had to rebuild from the war, and had to break down their culture with their welfare states....to get to the point where single teenage mothers were creating violent sociopaths....

And now, they are there...London is now more violent than New York...and their crime rates are spiking, just as they are cutting back on cops, cop resources and hamstringing their police with political correctness.....and add to that...importing violent 3rd world criminals...

They are about to see a major violence problem...and their people are unarmed in the face of it.....

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You're board because you know you're wrong. If you're a criminal, are you going to risk your life breaking into a home because you learned that less homes have guns? You're going to take a chance that your target home is one of them? Give me a break.

Occupied home break-ins are rare, and the ones that do happen are usually to homes of very old or disabled people. Other times it's because somebody is so loaded on drugs they have no idea what they're doing.

Most criminals take extra precaution to make sure nobody is in the home they plan to rob. That's because they can die within seconds of entering the home and it's not worth it to them.

If you are a criminal in the usa would you be unarmed? Not with all the guns around. All you have done is arm more criminals.

THAT'S THE POINT!!! You can create all the laws you like, but you're never going to disarm the criminal. They will always have access to guns and will use them. All you'd really do is disarm the victims, and that only makes the problem worse.

Actually arming the criminals makes it worse:
Why the US has the most mass shootings - CNN
US cops killed 100 times more than German police in 2015
Analysis | American toddlers are still shooting people on a weekly basis this year
Study: Road rage incidents involving guns are increasing

The “boyfriend loophole” in U.S. gun laws is costing women’s lives

More police officers die on the job in states with more guns

Fallen officers: 64 shot dead in the line of duty in 2016 - CNN

FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

We don't arm criminals. They break the laws and arm themselves.

Yes you do. You provide incentive for them to be armed. And well there is this too:
Up to 600,000 guns are stolen every year in the US – that's one every minute

So what are you trying to say, that to stop the criminals from getting guns, we need to take them away from everybody so they can't steal them? You do realize that most guns used in crime are not stolen.......right???

I guess to stop them from stealing jewelry, we need to stop women from buying jewelry.

 

[Reasonable]

cause all i have to do is answer no to all but 1 question here in texas so no idea what that's about. then they run my SS# - just what are they looking for?

why are people opposed to looking into how we do background checks?

Well, it's because I understand liberals, that's why. Let me explain, and please excuse my lack of brevity here:

I was a kid when gay rights was introduced. Back then, they told us all they wanted was to be let out of the closet. So we did. Today they are forcing themselves into our military, forced us to accept their marriages in states that forbade it, and are adopting children.

I remember when the anti-smokers just wanted no smoking in movie theaters. That's all they claimed to have wanted, and they will be happy. Today smoking is forbidden in most public places. There are parks and beaches where smoking is prohibited. Nobody told the law makers that parks and beaches were outside. Now some places won't give you a job if you're a smoker, and nobody even makes a car or truck with ashtrays anymore.

I remember when the environmentalists insisted we get rid of lead in our gasoline. That's all they wanted, and they would be happy. Today we have spent trillions of dollars making everything "greener" and they are complaining now more than ever.

The point is, when it comes to liberal agendas, there is no "we just want X" Because after X comes Y, and after Y comes Z, then Z+, then Z++ and so on.

To put it another way, let's say Hillary won the presidency, and she filled the courts with leftist judges all the way up to the Supreme Court. Do you really believe for one minute our rights to own firearms would be protected in five years or so from now?

and yep. i do agree that is a large part of why there is ZERO give from the gun side.

1) liberals don't know what they want to ban. if it looks scary, ban it. trouble is, they never define "Scary" and when they do, it changes to fit their mood.
2) they have zero knowledge that an AR15 is NOT an automatic weapon. hell, it wasn't even an "assault rifle" until liberals forces changing the meaning of words so they could be "right"
3) i don't trust obama for shit - when you say green tipped 223 is armor piercing you just told anyone with any knowledge at all what a fucktard you are. it's was all "if i cant get the gun i'll get the bullets" and nothing more.

so i do agree that if you want "common sense gun talk" you usually have to leave liberals out of it.

guess that just paints us into a corner and is what can be frustrating to me.

Liberals don't have a problem with the guns themselves. Liberals just don't like us having the ability to protect ourselves with guns. Thats their real problem.

Stupid comments from the gun babbas I'm use to but this is a couple of steps above stupid.

So would you care to explain why Democrats want our guns so badly? Or would you like me to give you several examples on how liberals create victims?

You’ve been crying for 8 years that Obama was coming for your guns.
Are you gunless?
The large % of the American people wants Congress to do something and pass some common sense legislation on gun control. Problem is there’s no common sense in the Congress and they suck at the NRA’s tit.

 

[2aguy]

Well, it's because I understand liberals, that's why. Let me explain, and please excuse my lack of brevity here:

I was a kid when gay rights was introduced. Back then, they told us all they wanted was to be let out of the closet. So we did. Today they are forcing themselves into our military, forced us to accept their marriages in states that forbade it, and are adopting children.

I remember when the anti-smokers just wanted no smoking in movie theaters. That's all they claimed to have wanted, and they will be happy. Today smoking is forbidden in most public places. There are parks and beaches where smoking is prohibited. Nobody told the law makers that parks and beaches were outside. Now some places won't give you a job if you're a smoker, and nobody even makes a car or truck with ashtrays anymore.

I remember when the environmentalists insisted we get rid of lead in our gasoline. That's all they wanted, and they would be happy. Today we have spent trillions of dollars making everything "greener" and they are complaining now more than ever.

The point is, when it comes to liberal agendas, there is no "we just want X" Because after X comes Y, and after Y comes Z, then Z+, then Z++ and so on.

To put it another way, let's say Hillary won the presidency, and she filled the courts with leftist judges all the way up to the Supreme Court. Do you really believe for one minute our rights to own firearms would be protected in five years or so from now?

and yep. i do agree that is a large part of why there is ZERO give from the gun side.

1) liberals don't know what they want to ban. if it looks scary, ban it. trouble is, they never define "Scary" and when they do, it changes to fit their mood.
2) they have zero knowledge that an AR15 is NOT an automatic weapon. hell, it wasn't even an "assault rifle" until liberals forces changing the meaning of words so they could be "right"
3) i don't trust obama for shit - when you say green tipped 223 is armor piercing you just told anyone with any knowledge at all what a fucktard you are. it's was all "if i cant get the gun i'll get the bullets" and nothing more.

so i do agree that if you want "common sense gun talk" you usually have to leave liberals out of it.

guess that just paints us into a corner and is what can be frustrating to me.

Liberals don't have a problem with the guns themselves. Liberals just don't like us having the ability to protect ourselves with guns. Thats their real problem.

Stupid comments from the gun babbas I'm use to but this is a couple of steps above stupid.

So would you care to explain why Democrats want our guns so badly? Or would you like me to give you several examples on how liberals create victims?

You’ve been crying for 8 years that Obama was coming for your guns.
Are you gunless?
The large % of the American people wants Congress to do something and pass some common sense legislation on gun control. Problem is there’s no common sense in the Congress and they suck at the NRA’s tit.

obama appointed judges and justices.....have you seen what the 4th Circuit court of appeals did, moron......they stripped the 2nd Amendment of it's protections.......

What are those common sense laws again? You guys never get past the part claiming all you want is common sense gun laws....because as soon as you list what you want....we show you how stupid they are....

 

[Reasonable]

Tougher background checks and ban military style weapons no citizen needs..
Boom.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Guns are weapons not tools. A screwdriver is a tool. And you number is absolute bullshit. One in 200 people do not pull out a gun to protect themselves. That's as stupid as it gets and most Americans don't even own a gun in the first place.

Yeah.......except the actual research says you are wrong.....

Self defense with a gun......40 years of actual research...first is the name of the group that conducted the research, then the year, then the number of defensive gun uses and finally wether the research contained police or military defensive gun uses....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


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Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

Posting a lie doesn't make it true. Learn some common sense.

Then you should stop posting lies.

Notice that two of those studies....one was from the Department of Justice under bill clinton......and another was done by obama's Centers for Disease control in 2013 that looked at all gun research....those are listed.......tell me they are lying....

They are lying because it's absolutely impossible to get any good numbers. That's like counting how many clouds in the sky. You can guess but that's all it is. Common sense, when mostly Americans don't even own a gun, says they aren't used 1.5 million times a year in self defense. That's just some idiot pulling out his gun because a black kid walking home from the store minding is own business scares your pathetic white ass.

I find myself wondering how many people have you on their ignore list. You've just been added to mine. You keep spamming stupidity, forcing me to check my alerts every two minutes. You will no longer waste my valuable time. Good riddance.

Like most conservatives you lack the courage to acknowledge the fact that you’re wrong.

Your thread premise fails as a fallacy because you can’t compare two dissimilar things and draw conclusions from that false comparison.

And the notion of ‘gun grabbers’ is just as false as your thread premise – no one is going to take your guns away.

 

[Reasonable]

and yep. i do agree that is a large part of why there is ZERO give from the gun side.

1) liberals don't know what they want to ban. if it looks scary, ban it. trouble is, they never define "Scary" and when they do, it changes to fit their mood.
2) they have zero knowledge that an AR15 is NOT an automatic weapon. hell, it wasn't even an "assault rifle" until liberals forces changing the meaning of words so they could be "right"
3) i don't trust obama for shit - when you say green tipped 223 is armor piercing you just told anyone with any knowledge at all what a fucktard you are. it's was all "if i cant get the gun i'll get the bullets" and nothing more.

so i do agree that if you want "common sense gun talk" you usually have to leave liberals out of it.

guess that just paints us into a corner and is what can be frustrating to me.

Liberals don't have a problem with the guns themselves. Liberals just don't like us having the ability to protect ourselves with guns. Thats their real problem.

Stupid comments from the gun babbas I'm use to but this is a couple of steps above stupid.

So would you care to explain why Democrats want our guns so badly? Or would you like me to give you several examples on how liberals create victims?

You’ve been crying for 8 years that Obama was coming for your guns.
Are you gunless?
The large % of the American people wants Congress to do something and pass some common sense legislation on gun control. Problem is there’s no common sense in the Congress and they suck at the NRA’s tit.

obama appointed judges and justices.....have you seen what the 4th Circuit court of appeals did, moron......they stripped the 2nd Amendment of it's protections.......

What are those common sense laws again? You guys never get past the part claiming all you want is common sense gun laws....because as soon as you list what you want....we show you how stupid they are....

No one stripped any 2nd amendments
Protections.
You said Obama would take away your guns and he didn’ t you lying mfer.

 

[2aguy]

Tougher background checks and ban military style weapons no citizen needs..
Boom.

Criminals don't get their guns going through background checks...they get them from people who can pass background checks...or they steal them.....that means that even background checks for private sales won't catch them......

Americans can't buy military weapons......haven't been able to buy new military weapons since 1934....we can buy civilian rifles...but not military rifles.....

And rifles compared to other methods of murder...

Expanded Homicide Data Table 4

Rifles....374

knives....1,604

blunt objects....472

bare hands....656

See.....we show how stupid your ideas are...you would save more lives banning knives, clubs and empty hands, than you would banning military rifles that people can't even buy.......