This woman disproves gun control beliefs.....

[Skylar]

Actually, they show a decrease as gun ownership rates go DOWN. And violent crime went down across the US. Including States that didn't have CCWs increases.

If the decrease in crime occurs if CCWs are expanded...or if they're not......then clearly CCWs aren't the cause.

Murder rates drop as concealed carry permits soar: report

And they've dropped in states that didn't significantly increase the number of CCW permits.

As I said, if the decrease in crime occurs if CCWs are expanded...or if they're not......then clearly CCWs aren't the cause.

They dropped more in states that did increase their concealed carry permits......

Mighty strange coincidence that crime just 'happened' to drop sharply in States without an increase in CCW permits, isn't it?

And even John Lott...professional pro-gun advocate ....has admitted that he can't establish *causation* between CCWs and crime rates.

Yet you're insisting you can?

And nice...avoiding the question......allowing Americans to carry guns for self defense does not increase the gun crime rate or the gun murder rate...right?

Um, slick....you didn't ask a question. You can't even quote yourself with any accuracy. And certainly not the studies you claim to cite.

Though you ran screaming from the sharp drop in violent crime rates in States that *didn't* expand CCWs significantly.

Just a grand coincidence, huh? Random chance that the drop occurred across the nation.....for completely different reasons, according to you. Mighty strange that they would sync up like that.

Again, even professional gun advocate John Lott doesn't claim causation. Why run from this simple fact?

 

[2aguy]

Murder rates drop as concealed carry permits soar: report

And they've dropped in states that didn't significantly increase the number of CCW permits.

As I said, if the decrease in crime occurs if CCWs are expanded...or if they're not......then clearly CCWs aren't the cause.

They dropped more in states that did increase their concealed carry permits......

Mighty strange coincidence that crime just 'happened' to drop sharply in States without an increase in CCW permits, isn't it?

And even John Lott...professional pro-gun advocate ....has admitted that he can't establish *causation* between CCWs and crime rates.

Yet you're insisting you can?

And here you go...another study....

An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

Abstract
The purpose of the present study is to determine the effects of state-level assault weapons bans and concealed weapons laws on state-level murder rates.

Using data for the period 1980 to 2009 and controlling for state and year fixed effects, the results of the present study suggest that states with restrictions on the carrying of concealed weapons had higher gun-related murder rates than other states.

It was also found that assault weapons bans did not significantly affect murder rates at the state level. These results suggest that restrictive concealed weapons laws may cause an increase in gun-related murders at the state level. The results of this study are consistent with some prior research in this area, most notably Lott and Mustard (1997).

That study doesn't claim causation. It says it 'suggests' a connection.

You're wildly overstating the results of your studies claiming causation. When the studies don't claim causation. Even John Lott doesn't claim causation.

Why do you feel the need to embellish the claims of the studies you're citing?

Here you go...

Do Right-to-carry laws reduce violent crime? - Crime Prevention Research Center



A 2012 survey of the literature is available here. Some of the research showing that concealed carry laws reduce violent crime is listed here.

Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns, John R. Lott, Jr. and David B. Mustard, Journal of Legal Studies, 1997

The Effect of Concealed Weapons Laws: An Extreme Bound Analysis by William Alan Bartley and Mark A Cohen, published in Economic Inquiry, April 1998 (Copy available here)

The Concealed‐Handgun Debate, John R. Lott, Jr., Journal of Legal Studies, January 1998

Criminal Deterrence, Geographic Spillovers, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by Stephen Bronars and John R. Lott, Jr., American Economic Review, May 1998

The Impact of Gun Laws on Police Deaths by David Mustard, published in the Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Privately Produced General Deterrence By BRUCE L. BENSON AND BRENT D. MAST, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Does the Right to Carry Concealed Handguns Deter Countable Crimes? Only a Count Analysis Can Say By FLORENZ PLASSMANN AND T. NICOLAUS TIDEMAN, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Testing for the Effects of Concealed Weapons Laws: Specification Errors and Robustness By CARLISLE E. MOODY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Right-to-Carry Concealed Weapon Laws and Homicide in Large U.S. Counties: The Effect on Weapon Types, Victim Characteristics, and Victim-Offender Relationships By DAVID E. OLSON AND MICHAEL D. MALTZ, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

The Impact of Banning Juvenile Gun Possession By Thomas B. Marvell, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Safe-Storage Gun Laws: Accidental Deaths, Suicides, and Crime By JOHN R. LOTT, JR., AND JOHN E. WHITLEY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Confirming More Guns, Less Crime by Florenz Plassmann and John Whitley, published in the Stanford Law Review, 2003

Measurement Error in County-Level UCR Data by John R. Lott, Jr. and John Whitley, published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology, June 2003, Volume 19, Issue 2, pp 185-198

Using Placebo Laws to Test “More Guns, Less Crime” by Eric Helland and Alexander Tabarrok, published in Advances in Economic Analysis and Policy, 4 (1): Article 1, 2004

Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws: Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement By John R. Lott, Jr. and William Landes, published in The Bias Against Guns

More Readers of Gun Magazines, But Not More Crimes by Florenz Plassmann and John R. Lott, Jr.

“More Guns, Less Crime” by John R Lott, Jr. (University of Chicago Press, 2010, 3rd edition).

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody, Thomas B. Marvell, Paul R Zimmerman, and Fasil Alemante published in Review of Economics & Finance, 2014

“An examination of the effects of concealed weapons laws and assault weapons bans on state-level murder rates” by Mark Giusa published in Applied Economics Letters, Volume 21, Issue 4, 2014

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, volume 5, number 3, September 2008 It is also available here..

“The Debate on Shall Issue Laws, Continued” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 6, Number 2 May 2009

“Did John Lott Provide Bad Data to the NRC? A Note on Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang” by Carlisle e. Moody, John R Lott, Jr, and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 10, Number 1, January 2013

“On the Choice of Control Variables in the Crime Equation” by Carlisle E. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, Oxford Bulletin of Economics and Statistics, Volume 72, Issue 5, pages 696–715, October 2010.

More Guns, Less Crime: A Response to Ayres and Donohue’s 1999 book review in the American Law and Economics Review by John R. Lott, Jr.

Right-to-Carry Laws and Violent Crime Revisited: Clustering, Measurement Error, and State-by-State Break downs by John R. Lott, Jr.

For the data errors in the one published paper by Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang that claims to find a bad effect from right-to-carry laws on aggravated assaults see this paper.

In addition, Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang have retracted their original claim that the my research could not be replicated. Their argument was that Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang could not replicate the replication work done by the National Research Council that had replicated my research.



In an Erratum note published in October 2012 they concede: “Subsequent to the publication of this article, members of the NRC panel demonstrated to the authors that the results in question were replicable if the authors used the data and statistical models described in Chapter 6 of the NRC (2004) report.”

 

[Skylar]

And they've dropped in states that didn't significantly increase the number of CCW permits.

As I said, if the decrease in crime occurs if CCWs are expanded...or if they're not......then clearly CCWs aren't the cause.

They dropped more in states that did increase their concealed carry permits......

Mighty strange coincidence that crime just 'happened' to drop sharply in States without an increase in CCW permits, isn't it?

And even John Lott...professional pro-gun advocate ....has admitted that he can't establish *causation* between CCWs and crime rates.

Yet you're insisting you can?

And here you go...another study....

An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

Abstract
The purpose of the present study is to determine the effects of state-level assault weapons bans and concealed weapons laws on state-level murder rates.

Using data for the period 1980 to 2009 and controlling for state and year fixed effects, the results of the present study suggest that states with restrictions on the carrying of concealed weapons had higher gun-related murder rates than other states.

It was also found that assault weapons bans did not significantly affect murder rates at the state level. These results suggest that restrictive concealed weapons laws may cause an increase in gun-related murders at the state level. The results of this study are consistent with some prior research in this area, most notably Lott and Mustard (1997).

That study doesn't claim causation. It says it 'suggests' a connection.

You're wildly overstating the results of your studies claiming causation. When the studies don't claim causation. Even John Lott doesn't claim causation.

Why do you feel the need to embellish the claims of the studies you're citing?

I'm not...you are denying it completely......and you can't.....I have studies that show it lowers the violent crime rate......fewer that shows it does nothing...and one that shows it increases the crime rate.......

Then you *aren't* claiming that CCW's are the cause of the reduction in crime?

Well that was easy.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

the anti gun nuts tell us that women can't use a gun against a man. They tell is the gun will be easily taken away from her. They tell us that any attack will be an ambush and no woman will be able to use a gun to stop that kind of attack......

Can you quote this hypothetical 'anti-gun nut'?

joe....brain.....they have made these comments before.....as do media anti gun nuts...like the Nevada congresswoman who told the rape victim a gun would not have helped her stop the rape she endured.......

This fails as a composition fallacy.

Those individuals represent only themselves, not a group or class of persons.

 

[2aguy]

Murder rates drop as concealed carry permits soar: report

And they've dropped in states that didn't significantly increase the number of CCW permits.

As I said, if the decrease in crime occurs if CCWs are expanded...or if they're not......then clearly CCWs aren't the cause.

They dropped more in states that did increase their concealed carry permits......

Mighty strange coincidence that crime just 'happened' to drop sharply in States without an increase in CCW permits, isn't it?

And even John Lott...professional pro-gun advocate ....has admitted that he can't establish *causation* between CCWs and crime rates.

Yet you're insisting you can?

And nice...avoiding the question......allowing Americans to carry guns for self defense does not increase the gun crime rate or the gun murder rate...right?

Um, slick....you didn't ask a question. You can't even quote yourself with any accuracy. And certainly not the studies you claim to cite.

Though you ran screaming from the sharp drop in violent crime rates in States that *didn't* expand CCWs significantly.

Just a grand coincidence, huh? Random chance that the drop occurred across the nation.....for completely different reasons, according to you. Mighty strange that they would sync up like that.

Again, even professional gun advocate John Lott doesn't claim causation. Why run from this simple fact?

And I showed that states with concealed carry had lower rates than the other states.....

Again....allowing people to carry guns for self defense did not increase the gun crime rate or the violent crime rate in general..right?

 

[2aguy]

They dropped more in states that did increase their concealed carry permits......

Mighty strange coincidence that crime just 'happened' to drop sharply in States without an increase in CCW permits, isn't it?

And even John Lott...professional pro-gun advocate ....has admitted that he can't establish *causation* between CCWs and crime rates.

Yet you're insisting you can?

And here you go...another study....

An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

Abstract
The purpose of the present study is to determine the effects of state-level assault weapons bans and concealed weapons laws on state-level murder rates.

Using data for the period 1980 to 2009 and controlling for state and year fixed effects, the results of the present study suggest that states with restrictions on the carrying of concealed weapons had higher gun-related murder rates than other states.

It was also found that assault weapons bans did not significantly affect murder rates at the state level. These results suggest that restrictive concealed weapons laws may cause an increase in gun-related murders at the state level. The results of this study are consistent with some prior research in this area, most notably Lott and Mustard (1997).

That study doesn't claim causation. It says it 'suggests' a connection.

You're wildly overstating the results of your studies claiming causation. When the studies don't claim causation. Even John Lott doesn't claim causation.

Why do you feel the need to embellish the claims of the studies you're citing?

I'm not...you are denying it completely......and you can't.....I have studies that show it lowers the violent crime rate......fewer that shows it does nothing...and one that shows it increases the crime rate.......

Then you *aren't* claiming that CCW's are the cause of the reduction in crime?

Well that was easy.

Nope....I have shown the research and it shows concealed carry lowers the crime rate.....you can believe it or not.....but it is the truth.

 

[Skylar]

And they've dropped in states that didn't significantly increase the number of CCW permits.

As I said, if the decrease in crime occurs if CCWs are expanded...or if they're not......then clearly CCWs aren't the cause.

They dropped more in states that did increase their concealed carry permits......

Mighty strange coincidence that crime just 'happened' to drop sharply in States without an increase in CCW permits, isn't it?

And even John Lott...professional pro-gun advocate ....has admitted that he can't establish *causation* between CCWs and crime rates.

Yet you're insisting you can?

And here you go...another study....

An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

Abstract
The purpose of the present study is to determine the effects of state-level assault weapons bans and concealed weapons laws on state-level murder rates.

Using data for the period 1980 to 2009 and controlling for state and year fixed effects, the results of the present study suggest that states with restrictions on the carrying of concealed weapons had higher gun-related murder rates than other states.

It was also found that assault weapons bans did not significantly affect murder rates at the state level. These results suggest that restrictive concealed weapons laws may cause an increase in gun-related murders at the state level. The results of this study are consistent with some prior research in this area, most notably Lott and Mustard (1997).

That study doesn't claim causation. It says it 'suggests' a connection.

You're wildly overstating the results of your studies claiming causation. When the studies don't claim causation. Even John Lott doesn't claim causation.

Why do you feel the need to embellish the claims of the studies you're citing?

Here you go...

Do Right-to-carry laws reduce violent crime? - Crime Prevention Research Center



A 2012 survey of the literature is available here. Some of the research showing that concealed carry laws reduce violent crime is listed here.

Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns, John R. Lott, Jr. and David B. Mustard, Journal of Legal Studies, 1997

The Effect of Concealed Weapons Laws: An Extreme Bound Analysis by William Alan Bartley and Mark A Cohen, published in Economic Inquiry, April 1998 (Copy available here)

The Concealed‐Handgun Debate, John R. Lott, Jr., Journal of Legal Studies, January 1998

Criminal Deterrence, Geographic Spillovers, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by Stephen Bronars and John R. Lott, Jr., American Economic Review, May 1998

The Impact of Gun Laws on Police Deaths by David Mustard, published in the Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Privately Produced General Deterrence By BRUCE L. BENSON AND BRENT D. MAST, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Does the Right to Carry Concealed Handguns Deter Countable Crimes? Only a Count Analysis Can Say By FLORENZ PLASSMANN AND T. NICOLAUS TIDEMAN, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Testing for the Effects of Concealed Weapons Laws: Specification Errors and Robustness By CARLISLE E. MOODY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Right-to-Carry Concealed Weapon Laws and Homicide in Large U.S. Counties: The Effect on Weapon Types, Victim Characteristics, and Victim-Offender Relationships By DAVID E. OLSON AND MICHAEL D. MALTZ, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

The Impact of Banning Juvenile Gun Possession By Thomas B. Marvell, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Safe-Storage Gun Laws: Accidental Deaths, Suicides, and Crime By JOHN R. LOTT, JR., AND JOHN E. WHITLEY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Confirming More Guns, Less Crime by Florenz Plassmann and John Whitley, published in the Stanford Law Review, 2003

Measurement Error in County-Level UCR Data by John R. Lott, Jr. and John Whitley, published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology, June 2003, Volume 19, Issue 2, pp 185-198

Using Placebo Laws to Test “More Guns, Less Crime” by Eric Helland and Alexander Tabarrok, published in Advances in Economic Analysis and Policy, 4 (1): Article 1, 2004

Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws: Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement By John R. Lott, Jr. and William Landes, published in The Bias Against Guns

More Readers of Gun Magazines, But Not More Crimes by Florenz Plassmann and John R. Lott, Jr.

“More Guns, Less Crime” by John R Lott, Jr. (University of Chicago Press, 2010, 3rd edition).

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody, Thomas B. Marvell, Paul R Zimmerman, and Fasil Alemante published in Review of Economics & Finance, 2014

“An examination of the effects of concealed weapons laws and assault weapons bans on state-level murder rates” by Mark Giusa published in Applied Economics Letters, Volume 21, Issue 4, 2014

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, volume 5, number 3, September 2008 It is also available here..

“The Debate on Shall Issue Laws, Continued” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 6, Number 2 May 2009

“Did John Lott Provide Bad Data to the NRC? A Note on Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang” by Carlisle e. Moody, John R Lott, Jr, and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 10, Number 1, January 2013

“On the Choice of Control Variables in the Crime Equation” by Carlisle E. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, Oxford Bulletin of Economics and Statistics, Volume 72, Issue 5, pages 696–715, October 2010.

More Guns, Less Crime: A Response to Ayres and Donohue’s 1999 book review in the American Law and Economics Review by John R. Lott, Jr.

Right-to-Carry Laws and Violent Crime Revisited: Clustering, Measurement Error, and State-by-State Break downs by John R. Lott, Jr.

For the data errors in the one published paper by Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang that claims to find a bad effect from right-to-carry laws on aggravated assaults see this paper.

In addition, Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang have retracted their original claim that the my research could not be replicated. Their argument was that Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang could not replicate the replication work done by the National Research Council that had replicated my research.



In an Erratum note published in October 2012 they concede: “Subsequent to the publication of this article, members of the NRC panel demonstrated to the authors that the results in question were replicable if the authors used the data and statistical models described in Chapter 6 of the NRC (2004) report.”

Yes, yes. This is the part of our discussion where you spam the EXACT SAME PAGE from professional gun advocate John Lott's website that you always do.

And yet even professional gun advocate John Lott doesn't claim causation between CCWs and drops in crime rates.

Show me causation.

 

[2aguy]

Murder rates drop as concealed carry permits soar: report

And they've dropped in states that didn't significantly increase the number of CCW permits.

As I said, if the decrease in crime occurs if CCWs are expanded...or if they're not......then clearly CCWs aren't the cause.

They dropped more in states that did increase their concealed carry permits......

Mighty strange coincidence that crime just 'happened' to drop sharply in States without an increase in CCW permits, isn't it?

And even John Lott...professional pro-gun advocate ....has admitted that he can't establish *causation* between CCWs and crime rates.

Yet you're insisting you can?

And nice...avoiding the question......allowing Americans to carry guns for self defense does not increase the gun crime rate or the gun murder rate...right?

Um, slick....you didn't ask a question. You can't even quote yourself with any accuracy. And certainly not the studies you claim to cite.

Though you ran screaming from the sharp drop in violent crime rates in States that *didn't* expand CCWs significantly.

Just a grand coincidence, huh? Random chance that the drop occurred across the nation.....for completely different reasons, according to you. Mighty strange that they would sync up like that.

Again, even professional gun advocate John Lott doesn't claim causation. Why run from this simple fact?

Here you go...

Do Right-to-carry laws reduce violent crime? - Crime Prevention Research Center



A 2012 survey of the literature is available here. Some of the research showing that concealed carry laws reduce violent crime is listed here.

Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns, John R. Lott, Jr. and David B. Mustard, Journal of Legal Studies, 1997

The Effect of Concealed Weapons Laws: An Extreme Bound Analysis by William Alan Bartley and Mark A Cohen, published in Economic Inquiry, April 1998 (Copy available here)

The Concealed‐Handgun Debate, John R. Lott, Jr., Journal of Legal Studies, January 1998

Criminal Deterrence, Geographic Spillovers, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by Stephen Bronars and John R. Lott, Jr., American Economic Review, May 1998

The Impact of Gun Laws on Police Deaths by David Mustard, published in the Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Privately Produced General Deterrence By BRUCE L. BENSON AND BRENT D. MAST, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Does the Right to Carry Concealed Handguns Deter Countable Crimes? Only a Count Analysis Can Say By FLORENZ PLASSMANN AND T. NICOLAUS TIDEMAN, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Testing for the Effects of Concealed Weapons Laws: Specification Errors and Robustness By CARLISLE E. MOODY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Right-to-Carry Concealed Weapon Laws and Homicide in Large U.S. Counties: The Effect on Weapon Types, Victim Characteristics, and Victim-Offender Relationships By DAVID E. OLSON AND MICHAEL D. MALTZ, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

The Impact of Banning Juvenile Gun Possession By Thomas B. Marvell, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Safe-Storage Gun Laws: Accidental Deaths, Suicides, and Crime By JOHN R. LOTT, JR., AND JOHN E. WHITLEY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Confirming More Guns, Less Crime by Florenz Plassmann and John Whitley, published in the Stanford Law Review, 2003

Measurement Error in County-Level UCR Data by John R. Lott, Jr. and John Whitley, published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology, June 2003, Volume 19, Issue 2, pp 185-198

Using Placebo Laws to Test “More Guns, Less Crime” by Eric Helland and Alexander Tabarrok, published in Advances in Economic Analysis and Policy, 4 (1): Article 1, 2004

Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws: Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement By John R. Lott, Jr. and William Landes, published in The Bias Against Guns

More Readers of Gun Magazines, But Not More Crimes by Florenz Plassmann and John R. Lott, Jr.

“More Guns, Less Crime” by John R Lott, Jr. (University of Chicago Press, 2010, 3rd edition).

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody, Thomas B. Marvell, Paul R Zimmerman, and Fasil Alemante published in Review of Economics & Finance, 2014

“An examination of the effects of concealed weapons laws and assault weapons bans on state-level murder rates” by Mark Giusa published in Applied Economics Letters, Volume 21, Issue 4, 2014

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, volume 5, number 3, September 2008 It is also available here..

“The Debate on Shall Issue Laws, Continued” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 6, Number 2 May 2009

“Did John Lott Provide Bad Data to the NRC? A Note on Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang” by Carlisle e. Moody, John R Lott, Jr, and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 10, Number 1, January 2013

“On the Choice of Control Variables in the Crime Equation” by Carlisle E. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, Oxford Bulletin of Economics and Statistics, Volume 72, Issue 5, pages 696–715, October 2010.

More Guns, Less Crime: A Response to Ayres and Donohue’s 1999 book review in the American Law and Economics Review by John R. Lott, Jr.

Right-to-Carry Laws and Violent Crime Revisited: Clustering, Measurement Error, and State-by-State Break downs by John R. Lott, Jr.

For the data errors in the one published paper by Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang that claims to find a bad effect from right-to-carry laws on aggravated assaults see this paper.

In addition, Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang have retracted their original claim that the my research could not be replicated. Their argument was that Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang could not replicate the replication work done by the National Research Council that had replicated my research.



In an Erratum note published in October 2012 they concede: “Subsequent to the publication of this article, members of the NRC panel demonstrated to the authors that the results in question were replicable if the authors used the data and statistical models described in Chapter 6 of the NRC (2004) report.”

 

[2aguy]

They dropped more in states that did increase their concealed carry permits......

Mighty strange coincidence that crime just 'happened' to drop sharply in States without an increase in CCW permits, isn't it?

And even John Lott...professional pro-gun advocate ....has admitted that he can't establish *causation* between CCWs and crime rates.

Yet you're insisting you can?

And here you go...another study....

An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

Abstract
The purpose of the present study is to determine the effects of state-level assault weapons bans and concealed weapons laws on state-level murder rates.

Using data for the period 1980 to 2009 and controlling for state and year fixed effects, the results of the present study suggest that states with restrictions on the carrying of concealed weapons had higher gun-related murder rates than other states.

It was also found that assault weapons bans did not significantly affect murder rates at the state level. These results suggest that restrictive concealed weapons laws may cause an increase in gun-related murders at the state level. The results of this study are consistent with some prior research in this area, most notably Lott and Mustard (1997).

That study doesn't claim causation. It says it 'suggests' a connection.

You're wildly overstating the results of your studies claiming causation. When the studies don't claim causation. Even John Lott doesn't claim causation.

Why do you feel the need to embellish the claims of the studies you're citing?

Here you go...

Do Right-to-carry laws reduce violent crime? - Crime Prevention Research Center



A 2012 survey of the literature is available here. Some of the research showing that concealed carry laws reduce violent crime is listed here.

Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns, John R. Lott, Jr. and David B. Mustard, Journal of Legal Studies, 1997

The Effect of Concealed Weapons Laws: An Extreme Bound Analysis by William Alan Bartley and Mark A Cohen, published in Economic Inquiry, April 1998 (Copy available here)

The Concealed‐Handgun Debate, John R. Lott, Jr., Journal of Legal Studies, January 1998

Criminal Deterrence, Geographic Spillovers, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by Stephen Bronars and John R. Lott, Jr., American Economic Review, May 1998

The Impact of Gun Laws on Police Deaths by David Mustard, published in the Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Privately Produced General Deterrence By BRUCE L. BENSON AND BRENT D. MAST, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Does the Right to Carry Concealed Handguns Deter Countable Crimes? Only a Count Analysis Can Say By FLORENZ PLASSMANN AND T. NICOLAUS TIDEMAN, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Testing for the Effects of Concealed Weapons Laws: Specification Errors and Robustness By CARLISLE E. MOODY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Right-to-Carry Concealed Weapon Laws and Homicide in Large U.S. Counties: The Effect on Weapon Types, Victim Characteristics, and Victim-Offender Relationships By DAVID E. OLSON AND MICHAEL D. MALTZ, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

The Impact of Banning Juvenile Gun Possession By Thomas B. Marvell, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Safe-Storage Gun Laws: Accidental Deaths, Suicides, and Crime By JOHN R. LOTT, JR., AND JOHN E. WHITLEY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Confirming More Guns, Less Crime by Florenz Plassmann and John Whitley, published in the Stanford Law Review, 2003

Measurement Error in County-Level UCR Data by John R. Lott, Jr. and John Whitley, published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology, June 2003, Volume 19, Issue 2, pp 185-198

Using Placebo Laws to Test “More Guns, Less Crime” by Eric Helland and Alexander Tabarrok, published in Advances in Economic Analysis and Policy, 4 (1): Article 1, 2004

Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws: Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement By John R. Lott, Jr. and William Landes, published in The Bias Against Guns

More Readers of Gun Magazines, But Not More Crimes by Florenz Plassmann and John R. Lott, Jr.

“More Guns, Less Crime” by John R Lott, Jr. (University of Chicago Press, 2010, 3rd edition).

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody, Thomas B. Marvell, Paul R Zimmerman, and Fasil Alemante published in Review of Economics & Finance, 2014

“An examination of the effects of concealed weapons laws and assault weapons bans on state-level murder rates” by Mark Giusa published in Applied Economics Letters, Volume 21, Issue 4, 2014

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, volume 5, number 3, September 2008 It is also available here..

“The Debate on Shall Issue Laws, Continued” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 6, Number 2 May 2009

“Did John Lott Provide Bad Data to the NRC? A Note on Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang” by Carlisle e. Moody, John R Lott, Jr, and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 10, Number 1, January 2013

“On the Choice of Control Variables in the Crime Equation” by Carlisle E. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, Oxford Bulletin of Economics and Statistics, Volume 72, Issue 5, pages 696–715, October 2010.

More Guns, Less Crime: A Response to Ayres and Donohue’s 1999 book review in the American Law and Economics Review by John R. Lott, Jr.

Right-to-Carry Laws and Violent Crime Revisited: Clustering, Measurement Error, and State-by-State Break downs by John R. Lott, Jr.

For the data errors in the one published paper by Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang that claims to find a bad effect from right-to-carry laws on aggravated assaults see this paper.

In addition, Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang have retracted their original claim that the my research could not be replicated. Their argument was that Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang could not replicate the replication work done by the National Research Council that had replicated my research.



In an Erratum note published in October 2012 they concede: “Subsequent to the publication of this article, members of the NRC panel demonstrated to the authors that the results in question were replicable if the authors used the data and statistical models described in Chapter 6 of the NRC (2004) report.”

Yes, yes. This is the part of our discussion where you spam the EXACT SAME PAGE from professional gun advocate John Lott's website that you always do.

And yet even professional gun advocate John Lott doesn't claim causation between CCWs and drops in crime rates.

Show me causation.

Read the studies........you know...the ones by Dr. John Lott...the actual expert in the field....and by all the other economists and criminologists who also study the field.....

 

[Skylar]

Mighty strange coincidence that crime just 'happened' to drop sharply in States without an increase in CCW permits, isn't it?

And even John Lott...professional pro-gun advocate ....has admitted that he can't establish *causation* between CCWs and crime rates.

Yet you're insisting you can?

And here you go...another study....

An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

Abstract
The purpose of the present study is to determine the effects of state-level assault weapons bans and concealed weapons laws on state-level murder rates.

Using data for the period 1980 to 2009 and controlling for state and year fixed effects, the results of the present study suggest that states with restrictions on the carrying of concealed weapons had higher gun-related murder rates than other states.

It was also found that assault weapons bans did not significantly affect murder rates at the state level. These results suggest that restrictive concealed weapons laws may cause an increase in gun-related murders at the state level. The results of this study are consistent with some prior research in this area, most notably Lott and Mustard (1997).

That study doesn't claim causation. It says it 'suggests' a connection.

You're wildly overstating the results of your studies claiming causation. When the studies don't claim causation. Even John Lott doesn't claim causation.

Why do you feel the need to embellish the claims of the studies you're citing?

I'm not...you are denying it completely......and you can't.....I have studies that show it lowers the violent crime rate......fewer that shows it does nothing...and one that shows it increases the crime rate.......

Then you *aren't* claiming that CCW's are the cause of the reduction in crime?

Well that was easy.

Nope....I have shown the research and it shows concealed carry lowers the crime rate.....you can believe it or not.....but it is the truth.

The studies you've cited don't claim causation. You do. You're mispresenting your own sources. Even John Lott doesn't claim causation.

The last study you linked to SUGGESTED a connection between CCWs and lower crime rates. It didn't claim such a connection actually existed or claim causation.

If your claims have merit......why do you need to grossly embellish them, adding claims that your sources don't make?

 

[2aguy]

They dropped more in states that did increase their concealed carry permits......

Mighty strange coincidence that crime just 'happened' to drop sharply in States without an increase in CCW permits, isn't it?

And even John Lott...professional pro-gun advocate ....has admitted that he can't establish *causation* between CCWs and crime rates.

Yet you're insisting you can?

And here you go...another study....

An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

Abstract
The purpose of the present study is to determine the effects of state-level assault weapons bans and concealed weapons laws on state-level murder rates.

Using data for the period 1980 to 2009 and controlling for state and year fixed effects, the results of the present study suggest that states with restrictions on the carrying of concealed weapons had higher gun-related murder rates than other states.

It was also found that assault weapons bans did not significantly affect murder rates at the state level. These results suggest that restrictive concealed weapons laws may cause an increase in gun-related murders at the state level. The results of this study are consistent with some prior research in this area, most notably Lott and Mustard (1997).

That study doesn't claim causation. It says it 'suggests' a connection.

You're wildly overstating the results of your studies claiming causation. When the studies don't claim causation. Even John Lott doesn't claim causation.

Why do you feel the need to embellish the claims of the studies you're citing?

Here you go...

Do Right-to-carry laws reduce violent crime? - Crime Prevention Research Center



A 2012 survey of the literature is available here. Some of the research showing that concealed carry laws reduce violent crime is listed here.

Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns, John R. Lott, Jr. and David B. Mustard, Journal of Legal Studies, 1997

The Effect of Concealed Weapons Laws: An Extreme Bound Analysis by William Alan Bartley and Mark A Cohen, published in Economic Inquiry, April 1998 (Copy available here)

The Concealed‐Handgun Debate, John R. Lott, Jr., Journal of Legal Studies, January 1998

Criminal Deterrence, Geographic Spillovers, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by Stephen Bronars and John R. Lott, Jr., American Economic Review, May 1998

The Impact of Gun Laws on Police Deaths by David Mustard, published in the Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Privately Produced General Deterrence By BRUCE L. BENSON AND BRENT D. MAST, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Does the Right to Carry Concealed Handguns Deter Countable Crimes? Only a Count Analysis Can Say By FLORENZ PLASSMANN AND T. NICOLAUS TIDEMAN, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Testing for the Effects of Concealed Weapons Laws: Specification Errors and Robustness By CARLISLE E. MOODY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Right-to-Carry Concealed Weapon Laws and Homicide in Large U.S. Counties: The Effect on Weapon Types, Victim Characteristics, and Victim-Offender Relationships By DAVID E. OLSON AND MICHAEL D. MALTZ, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

The Impact of Banning Juvenile Gun Possession By Thomas B. Marvell, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Safe-Storage Gun Laws: Accidental Deaths, Suicides, and Crime By JOHN R. LOTT, JR., AND JOHN E. WHITLEY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Confirming More Guns, Less Crime by Florenz Plassmann and John Whitley, published in the Stanford Law Review, 2003

Measurement Error in County-Level UCR Data by John R. Lott, Jr. and John Whitley, published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology, June 2003, Volume 19, Issue 2, pp 185-198

Using Placebo Laws to Test “More Guns, Less Crime” by Eric Helland and Alexander Tabarrok, published in Advances in Economic Analysis and Policy, 4 (1): Article 1, 2004

Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws: Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement By John R. Lott, Jr. and William Landes, published in The Bias Against Guns

More Readers of Gun Magazines, But Not More Crimes by Florenz Plassmann and John R. Lott, Jr.

“More Guns, Less Crime” by John R Lott, Jr. (University of Chicago Press, 2010, 3rd edition).

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody, Thomas B. Marvell, Paul R Zimmerman, and Fasil Alemante published in Review of Economics & Finance, 2014

“An examination of the effects of concealed weapons laws and assault weapons bans on state-level murder rates” by Mark Giusa published in Applied Economics Letters, Volume 21, Issue 4, 2014

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, volume 5, number 3, September 2008 It is also available here..

“The Debate on Shall Issue Laws, Continued” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 6, Number 2 May 2009

“Did John Lott Provide Bad Data to the NRC? A Note on Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang” by Carlisle e. Moody, John R Lott, Jr, and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 10, Number 1, January 2013

“On the Choice of Control Variables in the Crime Equation” by Carlisle E. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, Oxford Bulletin of Economics and Statistics, Volume 72, Issue 5, pages 696–715, October 2010.

More Guns, Less Crime: A Response to Ayres and Donohue’s 1999 book review in the American Law and Economics Review by John R. Lott, Jr.

Right-to-Carry Laws and Violent Crime Revisited: Clustering, Measurement Error, and State-by-State Break downs by John R. Lott, Jr.

For the data errors in the one published paper by Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang that claims to find a bad effect from right-to-carry laws on aggravated assaults see this paper.

In addition, Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang have retracted their original claim that the my research could not be replicated. Their argument was that Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang could not replicate the replication work done by the National Research Council that had replicated my research.



In an Erratum note published in October 2012 they concede: “Subsequent to the publication of this article, members of the NRC panel demonstrated to the authors that the results in question were replicable if the authors used the data and statistical models described in Chapter 6 of the NRC (2004) report.”

Yes, yes. This is the part of our discussion where you spam the EXACT SAME PAGE from professional gun advocate John Lott's website that you always do.

And yet even professional gun advocate John Lott doesn't claim causation between CCWs and drops in crime rates.

Show me causation.

And here is another list....18 studies show concealed carry reduced the crime rate.....10 that it did nothing...and 1 that it increased the crime rate...

http://crimeresearch.org/wp-content...-Maryland-Law-Review-Lott-Concealed-Carry.pdf

 

[Skylar]

And they've dropped in states that didn't significantly increase the number of CCW permits.

As I said, if the decrease in crime occurs if CCWs are expanded...or if they're not......then clearly CCWs aren't the cause.

They dropped more in states that did increase their concealed carry permits......

Mighty strange coincidence that crime just 'happened' to drop sharply in States without an increase in CCW permits, isn't it?

And even John Lott...professional pro-gun advocate ....has admitted that he can't establish *causation* between CCWs and crime rates.

Yet you're insisting you can?

And nice...avoiding the question......allowing Americans to carry guns for self defense does not increase the gun crime rate or the gun murder rate...right?

Um, slick....you didn't ask a question. You can't even quote yourself with any accuracy. And certainly not the studies you claim to cite.

Though you ran screaming from the sharp drop in violent crime rates in States that *didn't* expand CCWs significantly.

Just a grand coincidence, huh? Random chance that the drop occurred across the nation.....for completely different reasons, according to you. Mighty strange that they would sync up like that.

Again, even professional gun advocate John Lott doesn't claim causation. Why run from this simple fact?

Here you go...

Do Right-to-carry laws reduce violent crime? - Crime Prevention Research Center



A 2012 survey of the literature is available here. Some of the research showing that concealed carry laws reduce violent crime is listed here.

Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns, John R. Lott, Jr. and David B. Mustard, Journal of Legal Studies, 1997

The Effect of Concealed Weapons Laws: An Extreme Bound Analysis by William Alan Bartley and Mark A Cohen, published in Economic Inquiry, April 1998 (Copy available here)

The Concealed‐Handgun Debate, John R. Lott, Jr., Journal of Legal Studies, January 1998

Criminal Deterrence, Geographic Spillovers, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by Stephen Bronars and John R. Lott, Jr., American Economic Review, May 1998

The Impact of Gun Laws on Police Deaths by David Mustard, published in the Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Privately Produced General Deterrence By BRUCE L. BENSON AND BRENT D. MAST, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Does the Right to Carry Concealed Handguns Deter Countable Crimes? Only a Count Analysis Can Say By FLORENZ PLASSMANN AND T. NICOLAUS TIDEMAN, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Testing for the Effects of Concealed Weapons Laws: Specification Errors and Robustness By CARLISLE E. MOODY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Right-to-Carry Concealed Weapon Laws and Homicide in Large U.S. Counties: The Effect on Weapon Types, Victim Characteristics, and Victim-Offender Relationships By DAVID E. OLSON AND MICHAEL D. MALTZ, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

The Impact of Banning Juvenile Gun Possession By Thomas B. Marvell, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Safe-Storage Gun Laws: Accidental Deaths, Suicides, and Crime By JOHN R. LOTT, JR., AND JOHN E. WHITLEY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Confirming More Guns, Less Crime by Florenz Plassmann and John Whitley, published in the Stanford Law Review, 2003

Measurement Error in County-Level UCR Data by John R. Lott, Jr. and John Whitley, published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology, June 2003, Volume 19, Issue 2, pp 185-198

Using Placebo Laws to Test “More Guns, Less Crime” by Eric Helland and Alexander Tabarrok, published in Advances in Economic Analysis and Policy, 4 (1): Article 1, 2004

Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws: Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement By John R. Lott, Jr. and William Landes, published in The Bias Against Guns

More Readers of Gun Magazines, But Not More Crimes by Florenz Plassmann and John R. Lott, Jr.

“More Guns, Less Crime” by John R Lott, Jr. (University of Chicago Press, 2010, 3rd edition).

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody, Thomas B. Marvell, Paul R Zimmerman, and Fasil Alemante published in Review of Economics & Finance, 2014

“An examination of the effects of concealed weapons laws and assault weapons bans on state-level murder rates” by Mark Giusa published in Applied Economics Letters, Volume 21, Issue 4, 2014

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, volume 5, number 3, September 2008 It is also available here..

“The Debate on Shall Issue Laws, Continued” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 6, Number 2 May 2009

“Did John Lott Provide Bad Data to the NRC? A Note on Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang” by Carlisle e. Moody, John R Lott, Jr, and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 10, Number 1, January 2013

“On the Choice of Control Variables in the Crime Equation” by Carlisle E. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, Oxford Bulletin of Economics and Statistics, Volume 72, Issue 5, pages 696–715, October 2010.

More Guns, Less Crime: A Response to Ayres and Donohue’s 1999 book review in the American Law and Economics Review by John R. Lott, Jr.

Right-to-Carry Laws and Violent Crime Revisited: Clustering, Measurement Error, and State-by-State Break downs by John R. Lott, Jr.

For the data errors in the one published paper by Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang that claims to find a bad effect from right-to-carry laws on aggravated assaults see this paper.

In addition, Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang have retracted their original claim that the my research could not be replicated. Their argument was that Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang could not replicate the replication work done by the National Research Council that had replicated my research.



In an Erratum note published in October 2012 they concede: “Subsequent to the publication of this article, members of the NRC panel demonstrated to the authors that the results in question were replicable if the authors used the data and statistical models described in Chapter 6 of the NRC (2004) report.”

Yes, we all know that you're very good at cutting and pasting the exact same page from professional gun advocate John Lott's website like a little robot....over and over again.

Yet even John Lott doesn't claim causation. The studies you've cited SUGGEST a connection.

You insist that the connection exists. Your sources don't. You insist that CCWs cause reductions in crime. Your sources don't.

Spamming the exact same page over and over when it doesn't make the claims you do isn't evidence. Show me causation.

 

[2aguy]

And here you go...another study....

An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

Abstract
The purpose of the present study is to determine the effects of state-level assault weapons bans and concealed weapons laws on state-level murder rates.

Using data for the period 1980 to 2009 and controlling for state and year fixed effects, the results of the present study suggest that states with restrictions on the carrying of concealed weapons had higher gun-related murder rates than other states.

It was also found that assault weapons bans did not significantly affect murder rates at the state level. These results suggest that restrictive concealed weapons laws may cause an increase in gun-related murders at the state level. The results of this study are consistent with some prior research in this area, most notably Lott and Mustard (1997).

That study doesn't claim causation. It says it 'suggests' a connection.

You're wildly overstating the results of your studies claiming causation. When the studies don't claim causation. Even John Lott doesn't claim causation.

Why do you feel the need to embellish the claims of the studies you're citing?

I'm not...you are denying it completely......and you can't.....I have studies that show it lowers the violent crime rate......fewer that shows it does nothing...and one that shows it increases the crime rate.......

Then you *aren't* claiming that CCW's are the cause of the reduction in crime?

Well that was easy.

Nope....I have shown the research and it shows concealed carry lowers the crime rate.....you can believe it or not.....but it is the truth.

The studies you've cited don't claim causation. You do. You're mispresenting your own sources. Even John Lott doesn't claim causation.

The last study you linked to SUGGESTED a connection between CCWs and lower crime rates. It didn't claim such a connection actually existed or claim causation.

If your claims have merit......why do you need to grossly embellish them, adding claims that your sources don't make?

And of those papers....

Regarding the eighteen recent studies finding a benefit from right-to-carry laws [see Table 2 above], here are some of the comments.

• Florenz Plassmann and Nicolaus Tideman find that “right-tocarry laws do help on average to reduce the number of these crimes.”41

• Carl Moody explains that his findings “confirm and reinforce the basic findings of the original Lott and Mustard study.” 4


• In another paper that studies county crime rates from 1977 until 2000, co-authored by Moody and Thomas Marvell, the authors write that “the evidence, such as it is, seems to support the hypothesis that the shall-issue law is generally beneficial with respect to its overall long run effect on crime.”43 •

Eric Helland and Alex Tabarrok studied county crime rates from 1977 to 2000 to conclude that “shall-issue laws cause a large and significant drop in the murder trend rate” and that “there is considerable support for the hypothesis that shallissue laws cause criminals to substitute away from crimes against persons and towards crimes against property.” 44

• David Olsen and Michael Maltz found “a decrease in total homicides,” however the different set of data they use shows that the decrease was driven by a drop in gun killings.45

• Bruce Benson and Brent Mast found that their results “are virtually identical to those in [Lott and Mustard]. Therefore, the hypothesis that the [Lott and Mustard estimates] suffer from missing-variable bias owing to the lack of control for the private security industry is rejected . . . .” 46

• David Mustard supplies evidence that “[a]fter enactment of the right-to-carry laws, states exhibit a reduced likelihood of having felonious police deaths . . . .”47

• The late James Q. Wilson, often described as the preeminent criminologist in the United States, reviewed a report on Firearms and Violence published by the National Academy of Sciences and found that while there might be disagreement over some types of violent crime, “I find that the evidence presented by Lott and his supporters suggests that RTC laws do in fact help drive down the murder rate.”4

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Just like you would say about the little boy who shot his mom; shit happens and sometimes you get lucky.

Funny how there are many accident stories for every one of these.

Actually there are not less then 600 people a year die from accidental gun shots.

 

[2aguy]

Page after page of actual research and you sit there and deny it.........like a 12 year old........

 

[Skylar]

Mighty strange coincidence that crime just 'happened' to drop sharply in States without an increase in CCW permits, isn't it?

And even John Lott...professional pro-gun advocate ....has admitted that he can't establish *causation* between CCWs and crime rates.

Yet you're insisting you can?

And here you go...another study....

An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

Abstract
The purpose of the present study is to determine the effects of state-level assault weapons bans and concealed weapons laws on state-level murder rates.

Using data for the period 1980 to 2009 and controlling for state and year fixed effects, the results of the present study suggest that states with restrictions on the carrying of concealed weapons had higher gun-related murder rates than other states.

It was also found that assault weapons bans did not significantly affect murder rates at the state level. These results suggest that restrictive concealed weapons laws may cause an increase in gun-related murders at the state level. The results of this study are consistent with some prior research in this area, most notably Lott and Mustard (1997).

That study doesn't claim causation. It says it 'suggests' a connection.

You're wildly overstating the results of your studies claiming causation. When the studies don't claim causation. Even John Lott doesn't claim causation.

Why do you feel the need to embellish the claims of the studies you're citing?

Here you go...

Do Right-to-carry laws reduce violent crime? - Crime Prevention Research Center



A 2012 survey of the literature is available here. Some of the research showing that concealed carry laws reduce violent crime is listed here.

Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns, John R. Lott, Jr. and David B. Mustard, Journal of Legal Studies, 1997

The Effect of Concealed Weapons Laws: An Extreme Bound Analysis by William Alan Bartley and Mark A Cohen, published in Economic Inquiry, April 1998 (Copy available here)

The Concealed‐Handgun Debate, John R. Lott, Jr., Journal of Legal Studies, January 1998

Criminal Deterrence, Geographic Spillovers, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by Stephen Bronars and John R. Lott, Jr., American Economic Review, May 1998

The Impact of Gun Laws on Police Deaths by David Mustard, published in the Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Privately Produced General Deterrence By BRUCE L. BENSON AND BRENT D. MAST, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Does the Right to Carry Concealed Handguns Deter Countable Crimes? Only a Count Analysis Can Say By FLORENZ PLASSMANN AND T. NICOLAUS TIDEMAN, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Testing for the Effects of Concealed Weapons Laws: Specification Errors and Robustness By CARLISLE E. MOODY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Right-to-Carry Concealed Weapon Laws and Homicide in Large U.S. Counties: The Effect on Weapon Types, Victim Characteristics, and Victim-Offender Relationships By DAVID E. OLSON AND MICHAEL D. MALTZ, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

The Impact of Banning Juvenile Gun Possession By Thomas B. Marvell, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Safe-Storage Gun Laws: Accidental Deaths, Suicides, and Crime By JOHN R. LOTT, JR., AND JOHN E. WHITLEY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Confirming More Guns, Less Crime by Florenz Plassmann and John Whitley, published in the Stanford Law Review, 2003

Measurement Error in County-Level UCR Data by John R. Lott, Jr. and John Whitley, published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology, June 2003, Volume 19, Issue 2, pp 185-198

Using Placebo Laws to Test “More Guns, Less Crime” by Eric Helland and Alexander Tabarrok, published in Advances in Economic Analysis and Policy, 4 (1): Article 1, 2004

Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws: Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement By John R. Lott, Jr. and William Landes, published in The Bias Against Guns

More Readers of Gun Magazines, But Not More Crimes by Florenz Plassmann and John R. Lott, Jr.

“More Guns, Less Crime” by John R Lott, Jr. (University of Chicago Press, 2010, 3rd edition).

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody, Thomas B. Marvell, Paul R Zimmerman, and Fasil Alemante published in Review of Economics & Finance, 2014

“An examination of the effects of concealed weapons laws and assault weapons bans on state-level murder rates” by Mark Giusa published in Applied Economics Letters, Volume 21, Issue 4, 2014

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, volume 5, number 3, September 2008 It is also available here..

“The Debate on Shall Issue Laws, Continued” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 6, Number 2 May 2009

“Did John Lott Provide Bad Data to the NRC? A Note on Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang” by Carlisle e. Moody, John R Lott, Jr, and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 10, Number 1, January 2013

“On the Choice of Control Variables in the Crime Equation” by Carlisle E. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, Oxford Bulletin of Economics and Statistics, Volume 72, Issue 5, pages 696–715, October 2010.

More Guns, Less Crime: A Response to Ayres and Donohue’s 1999 book review in the American Law and Economics Review by John R. Lott, Jr.

Right-to-Carry Laws and Violent Crime Revisited: Clustering, Measurement Error, and State-by-State Break downs by John R. Lott, Jr.

For the data errors in the one published paper by Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang that claims to find a bad effect from right-to-carry laws on aggravated assaults see this paper.

In addition, Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang have retracted their original claim that the my research could not be replicated. Their argument was that Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang could not replicate the replication work done by the National Research Council that had replicated my research.



In an Erratum note published in October 2012 they concede: “Subsequent to the publication of this article, members of the NRC panel demonstrated to the authors that the results in question were replicable if the authors used the data and statistical models described in Chapter 6 of the NRC (2004) report.”

Yes, yes. This is the part of our discussion where you spam the EXACT SAME PAGE from professional gun advocate John Lott's website that you always do.

And yet even professional gun advocate John Lott doesn't claim causation between CCWs and drops in crime rates.

Show me causation.

And here is another list....18 studies show concealed carry reduced the crime rate.....10 that it did nothing...and 1 that it increased the crime rate...

http://crimeresearch.org/wp-content...-Maryland-Law-Review-Lott-Concealed-Carry.pdf

They suggest a connection. With dozens of studies finding NO connection.

YOU say that there is causation. When we check the actual study, they claim that their study merely SUGGESTS a connection. Either you've never read the studies...in which case your insistences about them are mere ignorance. Or you have read them and are intentionally misrepresenting them.

And of course, you ignore ANY study that doesn't suggest such a connection. You ignore any source that doesn't ape exactly what you want to believe. On the conclusion that they must be 'biased' and are thus not worth looking at.

Yet by your own admission, John Lott is very biased in favor of guns. So you ignore your own standards when applied to your own sources. Misrepresent those sources. And then ignore anything that contradicts you.

Have you ever heard of Confirmation Bias?

 

[2aguy]

And here you go...another study....

An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

Abstract
The purpose of the present study is to determine the effects of state-level assault weapons bans and concealed weapons laws on state-level murder rates.

Using data for the period 1980 to 2009 and controlling for state and year fixed effects, the results of the present study suggest that states with restrictions on the carrying of concealed weapons had higher gun-related murder rates than other states.

It was also found that assault weapons bans did not significantly affect murder rates at the state level. These results suggest that restrictive concealed weapons laws may cause an increase in gun-related murders at the state level. The results of this study are consistent with some prior research in this area, most notably Lott and Mustard (1997).

That study doesn't claim causation. It says it 'suggests' a connection.

You're wildly overstating the results of your studies claiming causation. When the studies don't claim causation. Even John Lott doesn't claim causation.

Why do you feel the need to embellish the claims of the studies you're citing?

Here you go...

Do Right-to-carry laws reduce violent crime? - Crime Prevention Research Center



A 2012 survey of the literature is available here. Some of the research showing that concealed carry laws reduce violent crime is listed here.

Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns, John R. Lott, Jr. and David B. Mustard, Journal of Legal Studies, 1997

The Effect of Concealed Weapons Laws: An Extreme Bound Analysis by William Alan Bartley and Mark A Cohen, published in Economic Inquiry, April 1998 (Copy available here)

The Concealed‐Handgun Debate, John R. Lott, Jr., Journal of Legal Studies, January 1998

Criminal Deterrence, Geographic Spillovers, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by Stephen Bronars and John R. Lott, Jr., American Economic Review, May 1998

The Impact of Gun Laws on Police Deaths by David Mustard, published in the Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Privately Produced General Deterrence By BRUCE L. BENSON AND BRENT D. MAST, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Does the Right to Carry Concealed Handguns Deter Countable Crimes? Only a Count Analysis Can Say By FLORENZ PLASSMANN AND T. NICOLAUS TIDEMAN, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Testing for the Effects of Concealed Weapons Laws: Specification Errors and Robustness By CARLISLE E. MOODY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Right-to-Carry Concealed Weapon Laws and Homicide in Large U.S. Counties: The Effect on Weapon Types, Victim Characteristics, and Victim-Offender Relationships By DAVID E. OLSON AND MICHAEL D. MALTZ, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

The Impact of Banning Juvenile Gun Possession By Thomas B. Marvell, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Safe-Storage Gun Laws: Accidental Deaths, Suicides, and Crime By JOHN R. LOTT, JR., AND JOHN E. WHITLEY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Confirming More Guns, Less Crime by Florenz Plassmann and John Whitley, published in the Stanford Law Review, 2003

Measurement Error in County-Level UCR Data by John R. Lott, Jr. and John Whitley, published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology, June 2003, Volume 19, Issue 2, pp 185-198

Using Placebo Laws to Test “More Guns, Less Crime” by Eric Helland and Alexander Tabarrok, published in Advances in Economic Analysis and Policy, 4 (1): Article 1, 2004

Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws: Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement By John R. Lott, Jr. and William Landes, published in The Bias Against Guns

More Readers of Gun Magazines, But Not More Crimes by Florenz Plassmann and John R. Lott, Jr.

“More Guns, Less Crime” by John R Lott, Jr. (University of Chicago Press, 2010, 3rd edition).

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody, Thomas B. Marvell, Paul R Zimmerman, and Fasil Alemante published in Review of Economics & Finance, 2014

“An examination of the effects of concealed weapons laws and assault weapons bans on state-level murder rates” by Mark Giusa published in Applied Economics Letters, Volume 21, Issue 4, 2014

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, volume 5, number 3, September 2008 It is also available here..

“The Debate on Shall Issue Laws, Continued” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 6, Number 2 May 2009

“Did John Lott Provide Bad Data to the NRC? A Note on Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang” by Carlisle e. Moody, John R Lott, Jr, and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 10, Number 1, January 2013

“On the Choice of Control Variables in the Crime Equation” by Carlisle E. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, Oxford Bulletin of Economics and Statistics, Volume 72, Issue 5, pages 696–715, October 2010.

More Guns, Less Crime: A Response to Ayres and Donohue’s 1999 book review in the American Law and Economics Review by John R. Lott, Jr.

Right-to-Carry Laws and Violent Crime Revisited: Clustering, Measurement Error, and State-by-State Break downs by John R. Lott, Jr.

For the data errors in the one published paper by Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang that claims to find a bad effect from right-to-carry laws on aggravated assaults see this paper.

In addition, Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang have retracted their original claim that the my research could not be replicated. Their argument was that Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang could not replicate the replication work done by the National Research Council that had replicated my research.



In an Erratum note published in October 2012 they concede: “Subsequent to the publication of this article, members of the NRC panel demonstrated to the authors that the results in question were replicable if the authors used the data and statistical models described in Chapter 6 of the NRC (2004) report.”

Yes, yes. This is the part of our discussion where you spam the EXACT SAME PAGE from professional gun advocate John Lott's website that you always do.

And yet even professional gun advocate John Lott doesn't claim causation between CCWs and drops in crime rates.

Show me causation.

And here is another list....18 studies show concealed carry reduced the crime rate.....10 that it did nothing...and 1 that it increased the crime rate...

http://crimeresearch.org/wp-content...-Maryland-Law-Review-Lott-Concealed-Carry.pdf

They suggest a connection. With dozens of studies finding NO connection.

YOU say that there is causation. When we check the actual study, they claim that their study merely SUGGESTS a connection. Either you've never read the studies...in which case your insistences about them are mere ignorance. Or you have read them and are intentionally misrepresenting them.

And of course, you ignore ANY study that doesn't suggest such a connection. You ignore any that doesn't ape exactly what you want to believe.

Have you ever heard of Confirmation Bias?

I have listed all of the studies twit....those that show it lowers the crime rate, those that show no change and the one that shows an increase......

Are you stamping your feet and putting your fingers in your ears....like a 12 year old.......I provide evidence...research, actual research...and you just deny it exists....

 

[Skylar]

Page after page of actual research and you sit there and deny it.........like a 12 year old........

Page after page of the names of studies.....but when we actually look at them, they claim no causation between CCWs and crime rates. They merely *suggest* a possible connection.

You are making claims that even professional gun advocate John Lott isn't making. And intentionally misrepresenting your sources, insisting causation is proven when your sources make no such claim.

 

[2aguy]

And here you go...another study....

An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

Abstract
The purpose of the present study is to determine the effects of state-level assault weapons bans and concealed weapons laws on state-level murder rates.

Using data for the period 1980 to 2009 and controlling for state and year fixed effects, the results of the present study suggest that states with restrictions on the carrying of concealed weapons had higher gun-related murder rates than other states.

It was also found that assault weapons bans did not significantly affect murder rates at the state level. These results suggest that restrictive concealed weapons laws may cause an increase in gun-related murders at the state level. The results of this study are consistent with some prior research in this area, most notably Lott and Mustard (1997).

That study doesn't claim causation. It says it 'suggests' a connection.

You're wildly overstating the results of your studies claiming causation. When the studies don't claim causation. Even John Lott doesn't claim causation.

Why do you feel the need to embellish the claims of the studies you're citing?

Here you go...

Do Right-to-carry laws reduce violent crime? - Crime Prevention Research Center



A 2012 survey of the literature is available here. Some of the research showing that concealed carry laws reduce violent crime is listed here.

Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns, John R. Lott, Jr. and David B. Mustard, Journal of Legal Studies, 1997

The Effect of Concealed Weapons Laws: An Extreme Bound Analysis by William Alan Bartley and Mark A Cohen, published in Economic Inquiry, April 1998 (Copy available here)

The Concealed‐Handgun Debate, John R. Lott, Jr., Journal of Legal Studies, January 1998

Criminal Deterrence, Geographic Spillovers, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by Stephen Bronars and John R. Lott, Jr., American Economic Review, May 1998

The Impact of Gun Laws on Police Deaths by David Mustard, published in the Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Privately Produced General Deterrence By BRUCE L. BENSON AND BRENT D. MAST, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Does the Right to Carry Concealed Handguns Deter Countable Crimes? Only a Count Analysis Can Say By FLORENZ PLASSMANN AND T. NICOLAUS TIDEMAN, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Testing for the Effects of Concealed Weapons Laws: Specification Errors and Robustness By CARLISLE E. MOODY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Right-to-Carry Concealed Weapon Laws and Homicide in Large U.S. Counties: The Effect on Weapon Types, Victim Characteristics, and Victim-Offender Relationships By DAVID E. OLSON AND MICHAEL D. MALTZ, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

The Impact of Banning Juvenile Gun Possession By Thomas B. Marvell, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Safe-Storage Gun Laws: Accidental Deaths, Suicides, and Crime By JOHN R. LOTT, JR., AND JOHN E. WHITLEY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Confirming More Guns, Less Crime by Florenz Plassmann and John Whitley, published in the Stanford Law Review, 2003

Measurement Error in County-Level UCR Data by John R. Lott, Jr. and John Whitley, published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology, June 2003, Volume 19, Issue 2, pp 185-198

Using Placebo Laws to Test “More Guns, Less Crime” by Eric Helland and Alexander Tabarrok, published in Advances in Economic Analysis and Policy, 4 (1): Article 1, 2004

Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws: Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement By John R. Lott, Jr. and William Landes, published in The Bias Against Guns

More Readers of Gun Magazines, But Not More Crimes by Florenz Plassmann and John R. Lott, Jr.

“More Guns, Less Crime” by John R Lott, Jr. (University of Chicago Press, 2010, 3rd edition).

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody, Thomas B. Marvell, Paul R Zimmerman, and Fasil Alemante published in Review of Economics & Finance, 2014

“An examination of the effects of concealed weapons laws and assault weapons bans on state-level murder rates” by Mark Giusa published in Applied Economics Letters, Volume 21, Issue 4, 2014

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, volume 5, number 3, September 2008 It is also available here..

“The Debate on Shall Issue Laws, Continued” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 6, Number 2 May 2009

“Did John Lott Provide Bad Data to the NRC? A Note on Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang” by Carlisle e. Moody, John R Lott, Jr, and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 10, Number 1, January 2013

“On the Choice of Control Variables in the Crime Equation” by Carlisle E. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, Oxford Bulletin of Economics and Statistics, Volume 72, Issue 5, pages 696–715, October 2010.

More Guns, Less Crime: A Response to Ayres and Donohue’s 1999 book review in the American Law and Economics Review by John R. Lott, Jr.

Right-to-Carry Laws and Violent Crime Revisited: Clustering, Measurement Error, and State-by-State Break downs by John R. Lott, Jr.

For the data errors in the one published paper by Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang that claims to find a bad effect from right-to-carry laws on aggravated assaults see this paper.

In addition, Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang have retracted their original claim that the my research could not be replicated. Their argument was that Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang could not replicate the replication work done by the National Research Council that had replicated my research.



In an Erratum note published in October 2012 they concede: “Subsequent to the publication of this article, members of the NRC panel demonstrated to the authors that the results in question were replicable if the authors used the data and statistical models described in Chapter 6 of the NRC (2004) report.”

Yes, yes. This is the part of our discussion where you spam the EXACT SAME PAGE from professional gun advocate John Lott's website that you always do.

And yet even professional gun advocate John Lott doesn't claim causation between CCWs and drops in crime rates.

Show me causation.

And here is another list....18 studies show concealed carry reduced the crime rate.....10 that it did nothing...and 1 that it increased the crime rate...

http://crimeresearch.org/wp-content...-Maryland-Law-Review-Lott-Concealed-Carry.pdf

They suggest a connection. With dozens of studies finding NO connection.

YOU say that there is causation. When we check the actual study, they claim that their study merely SUGGESTS a connection. Either you've never read the studies...in which case your insistences about them are mere ignorance. Or you have read them and are intentionally misrepresenting them.

And of course, you ignore ANY study that doesn't suggest such a connection. You ignore any source that doesn't ape exactly what you want to believe. On the conclusion that they must be 'biased' and are thus not worth looking at.

Yet by your own admission, John Lott is very biased in favor of guns. So you ignore your own standards when applied to your own sources. Misrepresent those sources. And then ignore anything that contradicts you.

Have you ever heard of Confirmation Bias?

18 show ccw reduces....

10 show no effect....not a dozen...even a baker's dozen......

 

[2aguy]

Page after page of actual research and you sit there and deny it.........like a 12 year old........

Page after page of the names of studies.....but when we actually look at them, they claim no causation between CCWs and crime rates. They merely *suggest* a possible connection.

You are making claims that even professional gun advocate John Lott isn't making. And intentionally misrepresenting your sources, insisting causation is proven when your sources make no such claim.

Since you enjoy links so much...here are some results.....

And of those papers....

Regarding the eighteen recent studies finding a benefit from right-to-carry laws [see Table 2 above], here are some of the comments.

• Florenz Plassmann and Nicolaus Tideman find that “right-tocarry laws do help on average to reduce the number of these crimes.”41

• Carl Moody explains that his findings “confirm and reinforce the basic findings of the original Lott and Mustard study.” 4


• In another paper that studies county crime rates from 1977 until 2000, co-authored by Moody and Thomas Marvell, the authors write that “the evidence, such as it is, seems to support the hypothesis that the shall-issue law is generally beneficial with respect to its overall long run effect on crime.”43 •

Eric Helland and Alex Tabarrok studied county crime rates from 1977 to 2000 to conclude that “shall-issue laws cause a large and significant drop in the murder trend rate” and that “there is considerable support for the hypothesis that shallissue laws cause criminals to substitute away from crimes against persons and towards crimes against property.” 44

• David Olsen and Michael Maltz found “a decrease in total homicides,” however the different set of data they use shows that the decrease was driven by a drop in gun killings.45

• Bruce Benson and Brent Mast found that their results “are virtually identical to those in [Lott and Mustard]. Therefore, the hypothesis that the [Lott and Mustard estimates] suffer from missing-variable bias owing to the lack of control for the private security industry is rejected . . . .” 46

• David Mustard supplies evidence that “[a]fter enactment of the right-to-carry laws, states exhibit a reduced likelihood of having felonious police deaths . . . .”47

• The late James Q. Wilson, often described as the preeminent criminologist in the United States, reviewed a report on Firearms and Violence published by the National Academy of Sciences and found that while there might be disagreement over some types of violent crime, “I find that the evidence presented by Lott and his supporters suggests that RTC laws do in fact help drive down the murder rate.”4