To claim asylum you must be physically in the US .

[Flopper]

Our bloated welfare system can't be blamed on immigrants. It’s home-grown, not imported.
Immigrants use 39 percent fewer welfare and entitlements benefits per person than native-born Americans. Immigrants are less likely to use the individual programs in most cases and, when they do, the benefits they receive tend to be smaller. As I have said before legal immigrants are an asset not a liability.
Don't Blame Immigrants for Bloated Welfare State

Never said that they were responsible for bloating it, I said most of them use welfare. I also implied that if our social programs are such that we need to bring in foreigners, then maybe it’s time to get rid of them, or at the very least, never create any more.


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

I don't understand your last sentence. Please expound on it.

Certainly. You stated that the reason we need these invaders is because our population is shrinking and we need working people to support those of us going on Social Security and Medicaid when we retire. SS and Medicare are social programs, therefore your claim is we need immigrants to support these social programs.

If that is the case, don't bring in foreigners, get rid of social programs, and maybe in the future, we won't need foreigners to support them.

Seriously, get rid of Medicare and Social Security 165 million people are contributing to Medicare and Social Security and are counting on it in retirment. 65 million are receiving benefits now. Not even Trump would suggest that. Beside, retirement is only one of the problems we face in increasing our workforce. The falling birthrate is going to reduce the size of the workforce and assuming we continue our economic expansion, we're going to need more people, not less. Over, the long term we are going have to increase our birth rate and the only practically way of doing that is to bring people into the country will higher birthrates so as they assimilate into the population, the overall birth rates increase. This will work in the US because our birthrate is not as bad as in many countries. In Italy, the birth rate is so low, 1.35 births per woman, half of what is was in 1960, that by 2120, Italy as we know it will cease to exist.

That doesn't negate that your claim of bringing immigrants here is because of our failed social programs.

If we want these programs.......fine. Then they need to be funded. We need to raise SS contributions by at least 25%, we need to triple Medicare contributions, and then we won't need anybody to support those programs but Americans. And if people object to those increases, find a way to gradually eliminate them so that kids today won't be burdened with funding these programs and trying to use that as a cheap ass excuse to allow invaders into this country.

Problem solved.

I never claimed we need to bring immigrants here because of our failed social programs. I think that's your interpretation. What I said was we're going to need more people in the workforce in this century than our birthrate will support. If we do not have the workforce to support the work, it will go overseas along with the economic growth that it brings.

Economic theory that supports deficit spending is future economic growth and without a sufficient workforce, we will not have that growth. That is when the predictors of a collapse our economic system due to debt is very likely to come true.

 

[jc456]

Then your stance is we have to depend on vagrants due to our failing social programs. Food for thought in the future.
Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

Our bloated welfare system can't be blamed on immigrants. It’s home-grown, not imported.
Immigrants use 39 percent fewer welfare and entitlements benefits per person than native-born Americans. Immigrants are less likely to use the individual programs in most cases and, when they do, the benefits they receive tend to be smaller. As I have said before legal immigrants are an asset not a liability.
Don't Blame Immigrants for Bloated Welfare State

wow dude you really are an anti american

It is not anti-American to support policies whose purpose is to save America. Without immigration America will not have the size workforce it will need to grow and prosper in the 21st century.

The only way the nation can survive with it's huge and growing debt is to have a large and growing workforce and population in order to generate the necessary economic growth. Without it we become a has been.

That's insanity.

The less people, the less need for workers needed to produce for those people. With automation quickly doing jobs humans did or are doing now, what are we going to do in 50 years when there are no jobs? Are we going to be grateful then that we ushered in all these foreigners 50 years ago?

Whether you like it or not, manual labor is being replaced all the time. Kiosks are replacing receptionists at clinics and hospitals, they are also replacing fast food workers, and not far down the road, cooks and order takers. A McDonald's outlet that currently employs 30 people will be reduced to five people. Self checkouts at grocery stores are replacing cashiers. Computers are replacing toll booth operators on turnpikes and toll roads. Same goes for parking garages downtown.

In a town about 50 miles or so out of Cleveland is Lordstown Ohio. There a huge GM plant provided jobs for thousands of people. Now they are closing that plant down. Why? Because they believe the future lies with not only electric cars, but autonomous vehicles. What that means is goodbye Uber, goodbye taxi jobs, goodbye limo jobs and school transportation jobs. So what are we going to do with the first generation of immigrants then?

Automation does not really decrease the overall number of jobs. If shifts the need for employers between businesses. One headline reads automation will eliminate 800,000 jobs but the realty is that it will create 3.5 million new jobs but not the same kind of jobs nor in the same place. As the greatest expense of a business, employee cost is reduced, profits rise rapidly making possible expansion and the creation of new jobs. For example, few companies have automated as fast as Amazon. They are eliminating jobs right and left but they are also creating new jobs. They are doubling employment every few years.

You simply can not have economic growth without a growing workforce. The Orwellian idea that machines will eliminate the need for employees is a fantasy. Automation really began to change the workforce in the 1950's and has accelerated year by year. In 1950, the workforce was 62 million. By 2000 it had reached 141 million and by 2050 it is projected to reach over 225 million. The problem we face today is where are another another 50 million workers going to come from over the next 30 years in a shrinking workforce.

thanks for finally agreeing with the conservatives in here. Moving jobs out of country due to automation is a farce as big as any ever spoken. You just said it right, the US would gain jobs if companies stayed in the US rather than take off shore. Thank you. I've said that for years in here.

 

[jc456]

Never said that they were responsible for bloating it, I said most of them use welfare. I also implied that if our social programs are such that we need to bring in foreigners, then maybe it’s time to get rid of them, or at the very least, never create any more.


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

I don't understand your last sentence. Please expound on it.

Certainly. You stated that the reason we need these invaders is because our population is shrinking and we need working people to support those of us going on Social Security and Medicaid when we retire. SS and Medicare are social programs, therefore your claim is we need immigrants to support these social programs.

If that is the case, don't bring in foreigners, get rid of social programs, and maybe in the future, we won't need foreigners to support them.

Seriously, get rid of Medicare and Social Security 165 million people are contributing to Medicare and Social Security and are counting on it in retirment. 65 million are receiving benefits now. Not even Trump would suggest that. Beside, retirement is only one of the problems we face in increasing our workforce. The falling birthrate is going to reduce the size of the workforce and assuming we continue our economic expansion, we're going to need more people, not less. Over, the long term we are going have to increase our birth rate and the only practically way of doing that is to bring people into the country will higher birthrates so as they assimilate into the population, the overall birth rates increase. This will work in the US because our birthrate is not as bad as in many countries. In Italy, the birth rate is so low, 1.35 births per woman, half of what is was in 1960, that by 2120, Italy as we know it will cease to exist.

That doesn't negate that your claim of bringing immigrants here is because of our failed social programs.

If we want these programs.......fine. Then they need to be funded. We need to raise SS contributions by at least 25%, we need to triple Medicare contributions, and then we won't need anybody to support those programs but Americans. And if people object to those increases, find a way to gradually eliminate them so that kids today won't be burdened with funding these programs and trying to use that as a cheap ass excuse to allow invaders into this country.

Problem solved.

I never claimed we need to bring immigrants here because of our failed social programs. I think that's your interpretation. What I said was we're going to need more people in the workforce in this century than our birthrate will support. If we do not have the workforce to support the work, it will go overseas along with the economic growth that it brings.

Economic theory that supports deficit spending is future economic growth and without a sufficient workforce, we will not have that growth. That is when the predictors of a collapse our economic system due to debt is very likely to come true.

we definitely will, that is why the US offers work visas. All they need do is apply. seems simple to me.

 

[danielpalos]

Upgrading Ellis Island is a solution.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Never said that they were responsible for bloating it, I said most of them use welfare. I also implied that if our social programs are such that we need to bring in foreigners, then maybe it’s time to get rid of them, or at the very least, never create any more.


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

I don't understand your last sentence. Please expound on it.

Certainly. You stated that the reason we need these invaders is because our population is shrinking and we need working people to support those of us going on Social Security and Medicaid when we retire. SS and Medicare are social programs, therefore your claim is we need immigrants to support these social programs.

If that is the case, don't bring in foreigners, get rid of social programs, and maybe in the future, we won't need foreigners to support them.

Seriously, get rid of Medicare and Social Security 165 million people are contributing to Medicare and Social Security and are counting on it in retirment. 65 million are receiving benefits now. Not even Trump would suggest that. Beside, retirement is only one of the problems we face in increasing our workforce. The falling birthrate is going to reduce the size of the workforce and assuming we continue our economic expansion, we're going to need more people, not less. Over, the long term we are going have to increase our birth rate and the only practically way of doing that is to bring people into the country will higher birthrates so as they assimilate into the population, the overall birth rates increase. This will work in the US because our birthrate is not as bad as in many countries. In Italy, the birth rate is so low, 1.35 births per woman, half of what is was in 1960, that by 2120, Italy as we know it will cease to exist.

That doesn't negate that your claim of bringing immigrants here is because of our failed social programs.

If we want these programs.......fine. Then they need to be funded. We need to raise SS contributions by at least 25%, we need to triple Medicare contributions, and then we won't need anybody to support those programs but Americans. And if people object to those increases, find a way to gradually eliminate them so that kids today won't be burdened with funding these programs and trying to use that as a cheap ass excuse to allow invaders into this country.

Problem solved.

I never claimed we need to bring immigrants here because of our failed social programs. I think that's your interpretation. What I said was we're going to need more people in the workforce in this century than our birthrate will support. If we do not have the workforce to support the work, it will go overseas along with the economic growth that it brings.

Economic theory that supports deficit spending is future economic growth and without a sufficient workforce, we will not have that growth. That is when the predictors of a collapse our economic system due to debt is very likely to come true.

First off the only jobs going offshore are those where labor rates are cheaper which can happen. Secondly, employment is supply and demand. The less supply and more demand, the higher the price goes. So if we satisfy our need for labor, then the pay never goes up which is what immigrants (legal and illegal) have been doing to this country for years now. And when the economy slows down (and yes it will at one point) then there is more supply than demand, and you know what that means.

I don't know about you, but I would rather see Americans making more money than giving home to a bunch of people that will undercut our pay. As for our failed social programs, you stated that the reason we need immigrants it to produce tax dollars to support these programs. Need me to quote you saying that, just ask.

 

[ABikerSailor]

I don't understand your last sentence. Please expound on it.

Certainly. You stated that the reason we need these invaders is because our population is shrinking and we need working people to support those of us going on Social Security and Medicaid when we retire. SS and Medicare are social programs, therefore your claim is we need immigrants to support these social programs.

If that is the case, don't bring in foreigners, get rid of social programs, and maybe in the future, we won't need foreigners to support them.

Seriously, get rid of Medicare and Social Security 165 million people are contributing to Medicare and Social Security and are counting on it in retirment. 65 million are receiving benefits now. Not even Trump would suggest that. Beside, retirement is only one of the problems we face in increasing our workforce. The falling birthrate is going to reduce the size of the workforce and assuming we continue our economic expansion, we're going to need more people, not less. Over, the long term we are going have to increase our birth rate and the only practically way of doing that is to bring people into the country will higher birthrates so as they assimilate into the population, the overall birth rates increase. This will work in the US because our birthrate is not as bad as in many countries. In Italy, the birth rate is so low, 1.35 births per woman, half of what is was in 1960, that by 2120, Italy as we know it will cease to exist.

That doesn't negate that your claim of bringing immigrants here is because of our failed social programs.

If we want these programs.......fine. Then they need to be funded. We need to raise SS contributions by at least 25%, we need to triple Medicare contributions, and then we won't need anybody to support those programs but Americans. And if people object to those increases, find a way to gradually eliminate them so that kids today won't be burdened with funding these programs and trying to use that as a cheap ass excuse to allow invaders into this country.

Problem solved.

I never claimed we need to bring immigrants here because of our failed social programs. I think that's your interpretation. What I said was we're going to need more people in the workforce in this century than our birthrate will support. If we do not have the workforce to support the work, it will go overseas along with the economic growth that it brings.

Economic theory that supports deficit spending is future economic growth and without a sufficient workforce, we will not have that growth. That is when the predictors of a collapse our economic system due to debt is very likely to come true.

First off the only jobs going offshore are those where labor rates are cheaper which can happen. Secondly, employment is supply and demand. The less supply and more demand, the higher the price goes. So if we satisfy our need for labor, then the pay never goes up which is what immigrants (legal and illegal) have been doing to this country for years now. And when the economy slows down (and yes it will at one point) then there is more supply than demand, and you know what that means.

I don't know about you, but I would rather see Americans making more money than giving home to a bunch of people that will undercut our pay. As for our failed social programs, you stated that the reason we need immigrants it to produce tax dollars to support these programs. Need me to quote you saying that, just ask.

Wanna talk about all the jobs GM is sending to Mexico, while closing down US plants?

 

[danielpalos]

not Labor's problem if Capitalists prefer Profit to the People. We have Representatives to Government, for a reason.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Then your stance is we have to depend on vagrants due to our failing social programs. Food for thought in the future.
Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

Our bloated welfare system can't be blamed on immigrants. It’s home-grown, not imported.
Immigrants use 39 percent fewer welfare and entitlements benefits per person than native-born Americans. Immigrants are less likely to use the individual programs in most cases and, when they do, the benefits they receive tend to be smaller. As I have said before legal immigrants are an asset not a liability.
Don't Blame Immigrants for Bloated Welfare State

wow dude you really are an anti american

It is not anti-American to support policies whose purpose is to save America. Without immigration America will not have the size workforce it will need to grow and prosper in the 21st century.

The only way the nation can survive with it's huge and growing debt is to have a large and growing workforce and population in order to generate the necessary economic growth. Without it we become a has been.

That's insanity.

The less people, the less need for workers needed to produce for those people. With automation quickly doing jobs humans did or are doing now, what are we going to do in 50 years when there are no jobs? Are we going to be grateful then that we ushered in all these foreigners 50 years ago?

Whether you like it or not, manual labor is being replaced all the time. Kiosks are replacing receptionists at clinics and hospitals, they are also replacing fast food workers, and not far down the road, cooks and order takers. A McDonald's outlet that currently employs 30 people will be reduced to five people. Self checkouts at grocery stores are replacing cashiers. Computers are replacing toll booth operators on turnpikes and toll roads. Same goes for parking garages downtown.

In a town about 50 miles or so out of Cleveland is Lordstown Ohio. There a huge GM plant provided jobs for thousands of people. Now they are closing that plant down. Why? Because they believe the future lies with not only electric cars, but autonomous vehicles. What that means is goodbye Uber, goodbye taxi jobs, goodbye limo jobs and school transportation jobs. So what are we going to do with the first generation of immigrants then?

Automation does not really decrease the overall number of jobs. If shifts the need for employers between businesses. One headline reads automation will eliminate 800,000 jobs but the realty is that it will create 3.5 million new jobs but not the same kind of jobs nor in the same place. As the greatest expense of a business, employee cost is reduced, profits rise rapidly making possible expansion and the creation of new jobs. For example, few companies have automated as fast as Amazon. They are eliminating jobs right and left but they are also creating new jobs. They are doubling employment every few years.

You simply can not have economic growth without a growing workforce. The Orwellian idea that machines will eliminate the need for employees is a fantasy. Automation really began to change the workforce in the 1950's and has accelerated year by year. In 1950, the workforce was 62 million. By 2000 it had reached 141 million and by 2050 it is projected to reach over 225 million. The problem we face today is where are another another 50 million workers going to come from over the next 30 years in a shrinking workforce.

If automation increased employment, employers would not invest in automation. A job that used to take ten people to do, a machine does the job of all ten of those people. And while there are people who produce those robots, it's still a net loss. I've seen it repeatedly.

A machine can work 24/ 7. You never have to increase it's pay, it never walks off the job, it never complains, it never takes a break or lunch, and you don't have to pay it overtime or benefits.

One of our customers makes plastic products. I don't go there nearly as much as I used to, but when I do, I see a sad ghost company.

I remember waiting in line behind several trucks to get into the docks. I remember workers running around the place trying to get last minute orders together. I remember going there at lunch time during the summer and all the workers outside eating lunch or just catching a cigarette. I remember watching their commercials on television. Now, I go into a near empty building. The parking lot has two cars in it. I never have to wait for a dock because I'm the only driver there every time I make a delivery. Simply sad.

So what went wrong? The owner didn't keep up with the times. He kept the same old molding presses that took humans to operate. The plastic companies that invested in automation not only produced more and cheaper products, but produced those products with virtually no flaws. That means happier customers and no reworking or disposing of parts that were not stamped correct.

And with that I leave you with an article by economist Dr. Walter E Williams who wrote this in a dated article which still holds true today:

There's great angst over the loss of manufacturing jobs. The number of U.S. manufacturing jobs has fallen, and it's mainly a result of technological innovation, and it's a worldwide phenomenon. Daniel W. Drezner, professor of political science at the University of Chicago, in "The Outsourcing Bogeyman" (Foreign Affairs, May/June 2004), notes that U.S. manufacturing employment between 1995 and 2002 fell by 11 percent. Globally, manufacturing job loss averaged 11 percent. China lost 15 percent of its manufacturing jobs, 4.5 million manufacturing jobs compared with the loss of 3.1 million in the U.S. Job loss is the trend among the top 10 manufacturing countries who produce 75 percent of the world's manufacturing output (the U.S., Japan, Germany, China, Britain, France, Italy, Korea, Canada and Mexico).


But guess what — globally, manufacturing output rose by 30 percent during the same period. According to research by the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis, U.S. manufacturing output increased by 100 percent between 1987 and today. Technological progress and innovation is the primary cause for the decrease in manufacturing jobs. Should we save manufacturing jobs by outlawing labor-saving equipment and technology?

Walter Williams

 

[Flopper]

I don't understand your last sentence. Please expound on it.

Certainly. You stated that the reason we need these invaders is because our population is shrinking and we need working people to support those of us going on Social Security and Medicaid when we retire. SS and Medicare are social programs, therefore your claim is we need immigrants to support these social programs.

If that is the case, don't bring in foreigners, get rid of social programs, and maybe in the future, we won't need foreigners to support them.

Seriously, get rid of Medicare and Social Security 165 million people are contributing to Medicare and Social Security and are counting on it in retirment. 65 million are receiving benefits now. Not even Trump would suggest that. Beside, retirement is only one of the problems we face in increasing our workforce. The falling birthrate is going to reduce the size of the workforce and assuming we continue our economic expansion, we're going to need more people, not less. Over, the long term we are going have to increase our birth rate and the only practically way of doing that is to bring people into the country will higher birthrates so as they assimilate into the population, the overall birth rates increase. This will work in the US because our birthrate is not as bad as in many countries. In Italy, the birth rate is so low, 1.35 births per woman, half of what is was in 1960, that by 2120, Italy as we know it will cease to exist.

That doesn't negate that your claim of bringing immigrants here is because of our failed social programs.

If we want these programs.......fine. Then they need to be funded. We need to raise SS contributions by at least 25%, we need to triple Medicare contributions, and then we won't need anybody to support those programs but Americans. And if people object to those increases, find a way to gradually eliminate them so that kids today won't be burdened with funding these programs and trying to use that as a cheap ass excuse to allow invaders into this country.

Problem solved.

I never claimed we need to bring immigrants here because of our failed social programs. I think that's your interpretation. What I said was we're going to need more people in the workforce in this century than our birthrate will support. If we do not have the workforce to support the work, it will go overseas along with the economic growth that it brings.

Economic theory that supports deficit spending is future economic growth and without a sufficient workforce, we will not have that growth. That is when the predictors of a collapse our economic system due to debt is very likely to come true.

we definitely will, that is why the US offers work visas. All they need do is apply. seems simple to me.

Application for a work permit is easy, providing you qualify.
A work permit is available only to limited groups of immigrants, usually those who are in the process of applying for adjustment of status (a green card) or who have some temporary right to be in the United States. The first step in getting a work permit is getting legally into the US on a visa that allows you to apply. If you don't have family in the US and you're coming from a Latin America, African, or Asian country, you will have a long wait, anywhere from a couple of years to forever.

 

[jc456]

Certainly. You stated that the reason we need these invaders is because our population is shrinking and we need working people to support those of us going on Social Security and Medicaid when we retire. SS and Medicare are social programs, therefore your claim is we need immigrants to support these social programs.

If that is the case, don't bring in foreigners, get rid of social programs, and maybe in the future, we won't need foreigners to support them.

Seriously, get rid of Medicare and Social Security 165 million people are contributing to Medicare and Social Security and are counting on it in retirment. 65 million are receiving benefits now. Not even Trump would suggest that. Beside, retirement is only one of the problems we face in increasing our workforce. The falling birthrate is going to reduce the size of the workforce and assuming we continue our economic expansion, we're going to need more people, not less. Over, the long term we are going have to increase our birth rate and the only practically way of doing that is to bring people into the country will higher birthrates so as they assimilate into the population, the overall birth rates increase. This will work in the US because our birthrate is not as bad as in many countries. In Italy, the birth rate is so low, 1.35 births per woman, half of what is was in 1960, that by 2120, Italy as we know it will cease to exist.

That doesn't negate that your claim of bringing immigrants here is because of our failed social programs.

If we want these programs.......fine. Then they need to be funded. We need to raise SS contributions by at least 25%, we need to triple Medicare contributions, and then we won't need anybody to support those programs but Americans. And if people object to those increases, find a way to gradually eliminate them so that kids today won't be burdened with funding these programs and trying to use that as a cheap ass excuse to allow invaders into this country.

Problem solved.

I never claimed we need to bring immigrants here because of our failed social programs. I think that's your interpretation. What I said was we're going to need more people in the workforce in this century than our birthrate will support. If we do not have the workforce to support the work, it will go overseas along with the economic growth that it brings.

Economic theory that supports deficit spending is future economic growth and without a sufficient workforce, we will not have that growth. That is when the predictors of a collapse our economic system due to debt is very likely to come true.

we definitely will, that is why the US offers work visas. All they need do is apply. seems simple to me.

Application for a work permit is easy, providing you qualify.
A work permit is available only to limited groups of immigrants, usually those who are in the process of applying for adjustment of status (a green card) or who have some temporary right to be in the United States. The first step in getting a work permit is getting legally into the US on a visa that allows you to apply. If you don't have family in the US and you're coming from a Latin America, African, or Asian country, you will have a long wait, anywhere from a couple of years to forever.

and?