Zone1 Too Bad That God Promised No More Great Floods

[alang1216]

I thought the link to Huston Smith's comments answered this but you didn't seem to agree with me so. I'll accept the wikipedia's answer to your question. But to be honest it's not that hard to figure out if you read the OT.

Jews traditionally believe in a monotheistic conception of God (God is only one), which is both transcendent (wholly independent of, and removed from, the material universe) and immanent (involved in the material universe).

God in Judaism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Or this one too.

The Nature of God / Torah 101 / Mechon Mamre

Discusses the fundamental Jewish beliefs about the nature of God and His relationship with the universe and with humanity.

mechon-mamre.org

I think the truth is more complex and monotheism only evolved much later in Jewish history, maybe in response to Christianity. Some historians have argued that ancient Israel originally practiced a form of monolatry or henotheism. If you wish to talk about Jewish perceptions of God you have to specify a time since it was a moving target.

 

[ding]

I think the truth is more complex and monotheism only evolved much later in Jewish history, maybe in response to Christianity. Some historians have argued that ancient Israel originally practiced a form of monolatry or henotheism. If you wish to talk about Jewish perceptions of God you have to specify a time since it was a moving target.

I believe it BEGAN at the time they claimed, when the land was dominated by polytheism. The adoption by the whole took place over time. Just like any other change in society that occurs.

 

[alang1216]

I didn't ignore it. On the contrary it was that statement which led me to conclude the logical conclusion of atheism leaves you wanting. I don't credit the "magic" of our intelligence to the supernatural. I credit that man was made to worship their creator rather than the created and it is that which leads to his success and happiness not because of magic but because of logic reasons.

You state man (and presumably his intelligence) had a creator. I don't know if you think every human was uniquely created or if the creator set in motion the natural forces that led to man. Doesn't matter since only a supernatural creator can create man or the natural forces that led to man.

 

[WinterBorn]

Consider the fact that in the time of the flood what the people alive then would have been considered to be a world wide flood, we might call a regional flood.

Black Sea deluge hypothesis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I go along with that and with the allegory ideas. But so many fundamentalists insist it was global. Just like they insist the planet is only 6,000 years old.

 

[surada]

I go along with that and with the allegory ideas. But so many fundamentalists insist it was global. Just like they insist the planet is only 6,000 years old.

6000 years? What about the 20,000 year old cave paintings they recently found in France.

Mysterious symbols in cave paintings may be earliest form of writing

Stone Age people in Europe appear to have recorded the reproductive habits of animals with markings on cave paintings, hinting at the early origins of writing

www.newscientist.com

 

[Batcat]

I go along with that and with the allegory ideas. But so many fundamentalists insist it was global. Just like they insist the planet is only 6,000 years old.

The old King James Version of the Bible says the sixth commandment is “Thou shalt not kill.”

However if you read the Bible you find the Israelites did a lot of killing, both people and animals.

Most modern versions of the Bible translate the 6th Commandment as “You shall not murder.”

Many, but not all, fundamentalists believe every word in the Bible is the literal word of God and they prefer the old King James Version. Most people have never read the Bible. I have and I have read several different versions of the Bible.

I consider myself to be a Christian but not a fundamentalist Christian.

 

[WinterBorn]

The old King James says the sixth commandment is “Thou shat not kill.”

However if you read the z Bible you find the Israelites did a lot of killing.

I think the actual translation is "Thou shall not murder". An important distinction.

 

[WinterBorn]

6000 years? What about the 20,000 year old cave paintings they recently found in France.

Mysterious symbols in cave paintings may be earliest form of writing

Stone Age people in Europe appear to have recorded the reproductive habits of animals with markings on cave paintings, hinting at the early origins of writing

www.newscientist.com

They say the scientists lying and the dating process is a lie.

 

[surada]

They say the scientists lying and the dating process is a lie.

Who are they? Did they finish high school?

 

[Batcat]

I think the actual translation is "Thou shall not murder". An important distinction.

Note that I accidentally hit post before I was finished and have edited that post since.

I agree the Sixth Commandment should be “Thou shat not murder.”

 

[ding]

if the creator set in motion the natural forces that led to man.

Yes, the universe popped into existence being hardwired - through the laws of nature and the structure of matter - to produce beings that know and create. Mind, rather than being a late development in the evolution of organisms, had existed always: that this is a life‑breeding universe because the constant presence of mind made it so.

Evolution is anything which moves from a lower state to a higher state; a less advanced state to a more advanced state; a less complex state to a more complex state. There have been 5 stages of evolution of space and time; cosmic evolution, stellar evolution, chemical evolution, biological evolution and evolution of consciousness.

In his book, "The Phenomenon of Man" Pierre Teilhard de Chardin describes evolution as a process that leads to increasing complexity, culminating in a Christ consciousness. He limited his observations to biological evolution but the same observation can be made about all stages of the evolution of space and time. The complexification of matter increased until it naturally and logically made the leap to the next stage. The last and final stage of evolution of space and time is consciousness. So it seems logical that consciousness would also increase in complexity until it to made the leap to the next stage which Chardin describes as Christ consciousness.

1. The universe began as a soup of subatomic particles and radiation and naturally and logically complexified into hydrogen and helium. This is what is called the cosmic stage of the evolution of space and time.
2. Hydrogen and helium then naturally and logically complexified into structures like stars and galaxies. This is what is called the stellar stage of the evolution of space and time.
3. From the life cycle of galaxies and stars all of the other elements and compounds were naturally and logically formed. This is what is called the chemical stage of the evolution of space and time.
4. As chemical evolution naturally and logically complexified the leap to biological life was made. This is what is called the biological stage of the evolution of space and time.
5. As life logically and naturally evolved and complexified the leap to consciousness was made. This is what is called the conscious stage of of the evolution of space and time.

So we can see that each successive stage of the evolution of space and time complexified until it made the leap to the next stage. And it did so naturally and logically. So Chardin's assumption that consciousness will make the leap to a Christ consciousness is logical because it presumes that consciousness will evolve and complexify and make the leap to the next level because every other stage of the evolution of space and time did so too before it.

 

[alang1216]

Yes, the universe popped into existence being hardwired - through the laws of nature and the structure of matter - to produce beings that know and create. Mind, rather than being a late development in the evolution of organisms, had existed always: that this is a life‑breeding universe because the constant presence of mind made it so.

Evolution is anything which moves from a lower state to a higher state; a less advanced state to a more advanced state; a less complex state to a more complex state. There have been 5 stages of evolution of space and time; cosmic evolution, stellar evolution, chemical evolution, biological evolution and evolution of consciousness.

In his book, "The Phenomenon of Man" Pierre Teilhard de Chardin describes evolution as a process that leads to increasing complexity, culminating in a Christ consciousness. He limited his observations to biological evolution but the same observation can be made about all stages of the evolution of space and time. The complexification of matter increased until it naturally and logically made the leap to the next stage. The last and final stage of evolution of space and time is consciousness. So it seems logical that consciousness would also increase in complexity until it to made the leap to the next stage which Chardin describes as Christ consciousness.

1. The universe began as a soup of subatomic particles and radiation and naturally and logically complexified into hydrogen and helium. This is what is called the cosmic stage of the evolution of space and time.
2. Hydrogen and helium then naturally and logically complexified into structures like stars and galaxies. This is what is called the stellar stage of the evolution of space and time.
3. From the life cycle of galaxies and stars all of the other elements and compounds were naturally and logically formed. This is what is called the chemical stage of the evolution of space and time.
4. As chemical evolution naturally and logically complexified the leap to biological life was made. This is what is called the biological stage of the evolution of space and time.
5. As life logically and naturally evolved and complexified the leap to consciousness was made. This is what is called the conscious stage of of the evolution of space and time.

So we can see that each successive stage of the evolution of space and time complexified until it made the leap to the next stage. And it did so naturally and logically. So Chardin's assumption that consciousness will make the leap to a Christ consciousness is logical because it presumes that consciousness will evolve and complexify and make the leap to the next level because every other stage of the evolution of space and time did so too before it.

So was there a intelligent creator? Since we have no control universe and only one example of intelligence, it is impossible for me to say if you're right or wrong. Though I'm pretty sure the Christ consciousness is wild and wishful speculation, if not pure fantasy.

 

[ding]

So was there a intelligent creator? Since we have no control universe and only one example of intelligence, it is impossible for me to say if you're right or wrong. Though I'm pretty sure the Christ consciousness is wild and wishful speculation, if not pure fantasy.

God is incorporeal. That's how every major religion sees it as far as I know. If you want to understand what that would be like think of every possible extant attribute of reality. That's God. Not the negation of the attribute, because the negation is the absence of the attribute. Just the positive because that is what exists. For example intelligence would be an extant attribute because intelligence exists. Stupidity isn't extant because it doesn't exist. Stupidity is the absence of intelligence. In effect these extant attributes of reality are mind stuff. They are incorporeal.

Given that reality can only be made manifest by mind, why are you having such a hard time believing the material world was created by mind? That mind has always existed as the matrix or source of existence. Why is it so hard for you to believe the universe popping into existence in an unnatural way and being implausibly hardwired to produce intelligence is a sign of intelligence? How do you know the purpose of the universe isn't to create intelligence?

If you want to see Christ consciousness as wild and wishful speculation be my guest but you can't ignore the fact that every stage of evolution increased in complexity until a leap was made to a new stage or phase of the evolution of space and time. And that it is logical to assume that consciousness will too.

 

[alang1216]

God is incorporeal. That's how every major religion sees it as far as I know. If you want to understand what that would be like think of every possible extant attribute of reality. That's God. Not the negation of the attribute, because the negation is the absence of the attribute. Just the positive because that is what exists. For example intelligence would be an extant attribute because intelligence exists. Stupidity isn't extant because it doesn't exist. Stupidity is the absence of intelligence. In effect these extant attributes of reality are mind stuff. They are incorporeal.

So your only evidence for God is your logic. You may be right but that evidence is insufficient for me.

Given that reality can only be made manifest by mind, why are you having such a hard time believing the material world was created by mind? That mind has always existed as the matrix or source of existence. Why is it so hard for you to believe the universe popping into existence in an unnatural way and being implausibly hardwired to produce intelligence is a sign of intelligence? How do you know the purpose of the universe isn't to create intelligence?

Is this the 'if a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it..." question? Reality exists, period. There were billions of sunsets before there were minds capable of appreciating them.

If you want to see Christ consciousness as wild and wishful speculation be my guest but you can't ignore the fact that every stage of evolution increased in complexity until a leap was made to a new stage or phase of the evolution of space and time. And that it is logical to assume that consciousness will too.

Can you define "Christ consciousness" beyond "increased in complexity"? How will we recognize it?

 

[ding]

So your only evidence for God is your logic. You may be right but that evidence is insufficient for me.

No, it's not my only evidence. The only tangible evidence anyone has is what God created. God is transcendent. The only tangible evidence you will ever have until you die is indirect evidence. But my confirming evidence is intangible.

I'm surprised you didn't already work through this when you made mind up at the age of 11.

 

[ding]

Is this the 'if a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it..." question? Reality exists, period. There were billions of sunsets before there were minds capable of appreciating them.

I don't think it's that kind of a question.

The physical world is entirely abstract and without ‘actuality’ apart from its linkage to consciousness. It is physicists who have expressed most clearly this pervasive relationship between mind and matter, and indeed at times the primacy of mind. Arthur Eddington wrote, “the stuff of the world is mind‑stuff. The mind‑stuff is not spread in space and time." Von Weizsacker stated what he called his “Identity Hypothesis; that consciousness and matter are different aspects of the same reality. In 1952 Wolfgang Pauli said, "the only acceptable point of view appears to be the one that recognizes both sides of reality -- the quantitative and the qualitative, the physical and the psychical -- as compatible with each other, and can embrace them simultaneously . . . It would be most satisfactory of all if physis and psyche (i.e., matter and mind) could be seen as complementary aspects of the same reality." If I say, with Eddington, “the stuff of the world is mind‑stuff,” that has a metaphysical ring. But if I say that ultimate reality is expressed in the solutions of the equations of quantum mechanics, quantum electrodynamics, and quantum field theory -- that sounds like good, modern physics. Yet what are those equations, indeed what is mathematics, but mind‑stuff? -- virtually the ultimate in mind‑stuff and for that reason deeply mysterious. Mind, rather than being a late development in the evolution of organisms, had existed always: that this is a life‑breeding universe because the constant presence of mind made it so.

George Wald: Life and Mind in the Universe

 

[ding]

Can you define "Christ consciousness" beyond "increased in complexity"? How will we recognize it?

Some would call it enlightened. I call it dying to self. Christ's crucifixion and resurrection was a living parable of it. The symmetry is freaking beautiful. Most people do it (dying to self) sometimes already so it shouldn't be too tough for you to recognize when you are able to do it full time (Peter was a living parable of most people).

 

[BreezeWood]

The old King James Version of the Bible says the sixth commandment is “Thou shalt not kill.”

However if you read the Bible you find the Israelites did a lot of killing, both people and animals.

Most modern versions of the Bible translate the 6th Commandment as “You shall not murder.”

Many, but not all, fundamentalists believe every word in the Bible is the literal word of God and they prefer the old King James Version. Most people have never read the Bible. I have and I have read several different versions of the Bible.

I consider myself to be a Christian but not a fundamentalist Christian.

pure hyperbole, there were never 10 commandments - etched in the heavens - whatever is made up is no different than those found in the desert documents.

the reason mythology exists - is the means for understanding by explanation the metaphysical origin of life.

also that was just moses who despised the golden calf, he was jealous ... polytheism is the only rational explanation for all that exists.

 

[Batcat]

pure hyperbole, there were never 10 commandments - etched in the heavens - whatever is made up is no different than those found in the desert documents.

the reason mythology exists - is the means for understanding by explanation the metaphysical origin of life.

also that was just moses who despised the golden calf, he was jealous ... polytheism is the only rational explanation for all that exists.

If polytheism is the only ration explanation, who made all the gods?

 

[Carl in Michigan]

The advantage of being a Godless piece of shit is that I don't have to worry about going to hell for believing in the wrong religion

It doesn't matter what you believe if there is a God out there who has a plan for your future. It is clearly best to find out WHO this God is, and what He expects of you.