Top 20% of households pay vast majority of income taxes

[dblack]

You just explained why consumers drive the economy and not the business. The business exists to extract wealth while consumers create it. For the business owner and the employee.

I know these are standard socialist tropes, but they never made any sense to me. How is a business "extracting" wealth? If customers are voluntarily giving their money to the business, how is that "extraction". And for that matter, how are consumers creating anything by making purchases?

More importantly, what are trying to justify with this wordsmithing? Are you suggesting that business are guilty of some crime, or that consumers should be rewarded for their 'creation'.

You supply siders are obtuse AF

The entire purpose of a business is to make a profit. Wealth. No?

So what are you proposing? Do you think there is a problem that needs to be solved? If so, what is the problem, and what is your suggested solution?

 

[Hutch Starskey]

I don't have a problem with that quote. It's partially true, at the very least. Every person who spends money helps to make the rich rich. Every time we make a purchasing decision we're deciding who we want to be rich. That's why I don't have a problem with income inequality in and of itself. It's only a problem when people are using coercion to acquire wealth (either through fraud and theft, or via manipulating laws).

Well yes.... if you think about it, everyone that buys or sells anything, is helping someone become rich.

I think the problem many have with this, is that people seem to have a one-way view of how wealth works. Like if I buy something, I get poorer, and the rich get richer.

If that was true.... at all.... I wouldn't do it. If every time I bought gasoline for my car, I was worse off than before I bought it.... I wouldn't buy it.

The rich get rich, because they provide value and wealth to the rest of society. The poorest person, is better of with a working car, than they are without one. So when they pay money to a rich person for a product, they are getting an exchange in value.

Additionally, the vast majority of cost in any product, is the labor. So most of what you pay for any given product, goes to the employees, not the CEO.

Consider McDonald's for example. The entire store chain serves roughly 69 Million people a day. That's 25 Billion a year. The CEO last year got $21.8 Million. Now assuming that is all cash (which it is not), that means the CEO of McDonald's earned roughly 8/100th of a penny, per customer.

So when you drive through McDonald's and buy your $10 value meal.... a fraction of a penny of that price is going to the CEO. Where is the rest of that money going? To the employees, to the employees of the stores suppliers, and so on.

You just made my case for me. Thanks.

I think I completely dismantled your case.... but if you want to think otherwise, you are allowed to be wrong on this forum.

No doubt you do.

Additionally, the vast majority of cost in any product, is the labor. So most of what you pay for any given product, goes to the employees, not the CEO.

Consider McDonald's for example. The entire store chain serves roughly 69 Million people a day. That's 25 Billion a year. The CEO last year got $21.8 Million. Now assuming that is all cash (which it is not), that means the CEO of McDonald's earned roughly 8/100th of a penny, per customer.

So when you drive through McDonald's and buy your $10 value meal.... a fraction of a penny of that price is going to the CEO. Where is the rest of that money going? To the employees, to the employees of the stores suppliers, and so on.

You just explained why consumers drive the economy and not the business. The business exists to extract wealth while consumers create it. For the business owner and the employee.

Business can't "extract wealth". That is impossible.

If you don't provide me a product worth the price I am willing to pay, then I don't buy it from you.

If I don't buy it, then no wealth is extracted.

If the product is worth the money...... then wealth is still not extracted, because I have a product in my possession that is in equal worth to the amount of money I paid for it.

If the car isn't worth $10,000.... then I don't buy it. If it is... then I have a $10,000 car. No wealth was "extracted" from me.

Further you mention that this is a benefit for business owners and the employees..... but nearly all consumers are employees. So how can a group of people extract wealth, from themselves?

Again, if consumers were the driving factor, then why is there product shortages across the entire country of Venezuela? Are you saying there are no consumers? I promise you there are.

And if consumers were the driving factor in China, then why was there so little economic growth before they allowed wealthy people to invest in the economy?

Were there magically no consumers before, and magically they spawned into existence after liberalizing the economy.... and it just happen to be a magical fluke that wealthy people started creating companies and businesses at the same time?

No, I didn't explain why consumers drive the economy. You just refused to understand basic economics.

Profit doesn't extract money out of the economy and create wealth for the owner?

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Consumers drive the economy. Not investment.
Investment capitalizes on demand. It doesn't create it.

Why does it matter? Outside of the semantics, what policy implications does your attribution imply?

It matters because......... " job creators".

 

[Hutch Starskey]

The poor make the rich, rich. There's nothing inherently wrong with that. My beef is giving the rich all the credit.

What does "giving the rich all the credit" mean?

Just what it says.
Asserting that they somehow are responsible for diving the economy.

But you're advocating for something. What is it?

You just quoted my post where I told you.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

raising the minimum wage is more productive.

Raising all wages.

What good would that do? I suppose we could achieve the same effect by just declaring all dollar bills to now be worth ten times as much. Hopefully you can see the stupidity in that.

Create growth.
70% of GDP is consumer spending.

Why is that a good thing?

WTF?
Seriously?

 

[dblack]

Well yes.... if you think about it, everyone that buys or sells anything, is helping someone become rich.

I think the problem many have with this, is that people seem to have a one-way view of how wealth works. Like if I buy something, I get poorer, and the rich get richer.

If that was true.... at all.... I wouldn't do it. If every time I bought gasoline for my car, I was worse off than before I bought it.... I wouldn't buy it.

The rich get rich, because they provide value and wealth to the rest of society. The poorest person, is better of with a working car, than they are without one. So when they pay money to a rich person for a product, they are getting an exchange in value.

Additionally, the vast majority of cost in any product, is the labor. So most of what you pay for any given product, goes to the employees, not the CEO.

Consider McDonald's for example. The entire store chain serves roughly 69 Million people a day. That's 25 Billion a year. The CEO last year got $21.8 Million. Now assuming that is all cash (which it is not), that means the CEO of McDonald's earned roughly 8/100th of a penny, per customer.

So when you drive through McDonald's and buy your $10 value meal.... a fraction of a penny of that price is going to the CEO. Where is the rest of that money going? To the employees, to the employees of the stores suppliers, and so on.

You just made my case for me. Thanks.

I think I completely dismantled your case.... but if you want to think otherwise, you are allowed to be wrong on this forum.

No doubt you do.

Additionally, the vast majority of cost in any product, is the labor. So most of what you pay for any given product, goes to the employees, not the CEO.

Consider McDonald's for example. The entire store chain serves roughly 69 Million people a day. That's 25 Billion a year. The CEO last year got $21.8 Million. Now assuming that is all cash (which it is not), that means the CEO of McDonald's earned roughly 8/100th of a penny, per customer.

So when you drive through McDonald's and buy your $10 value meal.... a fraction of a penny of that price is going to the CEO. Where is the rest of that money going? To the employees, to the employees of the stores suppliers, and so on.

You just explained why consumers drive the economy and not the business. The business exists to extract wealth while consumers create it. For the business owner and the employee.

Business can't "extract wealth". That is impossible.

If you don't provide me a product worth the price I am willing to pay, then I don't buy it from you.

If I don't buy it, then no wealth is extracted.

If the product is worth the money...... then wealth is still not extracted, because I have a product in my possession that is in equal worth to the amount of money I paid for it.

If the car isn't worth $10,000.... then I don't buy it. If it is... then I have a $10,000 car. No wealth was "extracted" from me.

Further you mention that this is a benefit for business owners and the employees..... but nearly all consumers are employees. So how can a group of people extract wealth, from themselves?

Again, if consumers were the driving factor, then why is there product shortages across the entire country of Venezuela? Are you saying there are no consumers? I promise you there are.

And if consumers were the driving factor in China, then why was there so little economic growth before they allowed wealthy people to invest in the economy?

Were there magically no consumers before, and magically they spawned into existence after liberalizing the economy.... and it just happen to be a magical fluke that wealthy people started creating companies and businesses at the same time?

No, I didn't explain why consumers drive the economy. You just refused to understand basic economics.

Profit doesn't extract money out of the economy and create wealth for the owner?

Well, it seems you're using the word "extract" because it sounds involuntary - as though the money was taken forcefully and not voluntarily exchanged. Is that your intent?

 

[dblack]

raising the minimum wage is more productive.

Raising all wages.

What good would that do? I suppose we could achieve the same effect by just declaring all dollar bills to now be worth ten times as much. Hopefully you can see the stupidity in that.

Create growth.
70% of GDP is consumer spending.

Why is that a good thing?

WTF?
Seriously?

Yes, seriously.

 

[dblack]

The poor make the rich, rich. There's nothing inherently wrong with that. My beef is giving the rich all the credit.

What does "giving the rich all the credit" mean?

Just what it says.
Asserting that they somehow are responsible for diving the economy.

But you're advocating for something. What is it?

You just quoted my post where I told you.

Hmm.... I didn't see it. Are you suggesting any policy changes?

 

[Andylusion]

Well yes.... if you think about it, everyone that buys or sells anything, is helping someone become rich.

I think the problem many have with this, is that people seem to have a one-way view of how wealth works. Like if I buy something, I get poorer, and the rich get richer.

If that was true.... at all.... I wouldn't do it. If every time I bought gasoline for my car, I was worse off than before I bought it.... I wouldn't buy it.

The rich get rich, because they provide value and wealth to the rest of society. The poorest person, is better of with a working car, than they are without one. So when they pay money to a rich person for a product, they are getting an exchange in value.

Additionally, the vast majority of cost in any product, is the labor. So most of what you pay for any given product, goes to the employees, not the CEO.

Consider McDonald's for example. The entire store chain serves roughly 69 Million people a day. That's 25 Billion a year. The CEO last year got $21.8 Million. Now assuming that is all cash (which it is not), that means the CEO of McDonald's earned roughly 8/100th of a penny, per customer.

So when you drive through McDonald's and buy your $10 value meal.... a fraction of a penny of that price is going to the CEO. Where is the rest of that money going? To the employees, to the employees of the stores suppliers, and so on.

You just made my case for me. Thanks.

I think I completely dismantled your case.... but if you want to think otherwise, you are allowed to be wrong on this forum.

No doubt you do.

Additionally, the vast majority of cost in any product, is the labor. So most of what you pay for any given product, goes to the employees, not the CEO.

Consider McDonald's for example. The entire store chain serves roughly 69 Million people a day. That's 25 Billion a year. The CEO last year got $21.8 Million. Now assuming that is all cash (which it is not), that means the CEO of McDonald's earned roughly 8/100th of a penny, per customer.

So when you drive through McDonald's and buy your $10 value meal.... a fraction of a penny of that price is going to the CEO. Where is the rest of that money going? To the employees, to the employees of the stores suppliers, and so on.

You just explained why consumers drive the economy and not the business. The business exists to extract wealth while consumers create it. For the business owner and the employee.

Business can't "extract wealth". That is impossible.

If you don't provide me a product worth the price I am willing to pay, then I don't buy it from you.

If I don't buy it, then no wealth is extracted.

If the product is worth the money...... then wealth is still not extracted, because I have a product in my possession that is in equal worth to the amount of money I paid for it.

If the car isn't worth $10,000.... then I don't buy it. If it is... then I have a $10,000 car. No wealth was "extracted" from me.

Further you mention that this is a benefit for business owners and the employees..... but nearly all consumers are employees. So how can a group of people extract wealth, from themselves?

Again, if consumers were the driving factor, then why is there product shortages across the entire country of Venezuela? Are you saying there are no consumers? I promise you there are.

And if consumers were the driving factor in China, then why was there so little economic growth before they allowed wealthy people to invest in the economy?

Were there magically no consumers before, and magically they spawned into existence after liberalizing the economy.... and it just happen to be a magical fluke that wealthy people started creating companies and businesses at the same time?

No, I didn't explain why consumers drive the economy. You just refused to understand basic economics.

Profit doesn't extract money out of the economy and create wealth for the owner?

No, it does not.

Again... if I buy something that is worth $20... and I pay $20.... It is an equal value exchange.

I am not worse off.

Again.... just think about it in any other context.

If I place you on a deserted Island with a billion dollars..... are you wealthy? No. Because all you have is paper.

The value of money, is only in what you can exchange it for.

A rich person providing you a product that you want to buy, is creating wealth for you. You are wealthy, because of that rich person.

Far from "extracting" wealth, we only have wealth that is provided by the rich.

The rich already have wealth. They could pack up, and move to the Bahamas.

The fact they are here, providing us goods and services that make our lives better, shows they are injecting more wealth into the economy, than they are taking out.

Again... if you doubt that, look at Venezuela. The wealthy class has dramatically shrunk as the wealthy have fled the country. Are they better off, or worse off?

Same with Cuba before moving to capitalism. Were the Cubans better off, or worse of, after the wealthy fled?

If what you said was true, that the wealthy were 'extracting wealth' from the economy.... then having them all leave, should have resulted in everyone being better off.....

Instead you see them cooking up fluffy the family pet, to avoid starvation.

At least they don't have some evil company providing food in the stores.

The sign up top says "Made with socialism".

 

[Hutch Starskey]

You just made my case for me. Thanks.

I think I completely dismantled your case.... but if you want to think otherwise, you are allowed to be wrong on this forum.

No doubt you do.

Additionally, the vast majority of cost in any product, is the labor. So most of what you pay for any given product, goes to the employees, not the CEO.

Consider McDonald's for example. The entire store chain serves roughly 69 Million people a day. That's 25 Billion a year. The CEO last year got $21.8 Million. Now assuming that is all cash (which it is not), that means the CEO of McDonald's earned roughly 8/100th of a penny, per customer.

So when you drive through McDonald's and buy your $10 value meal.... a fraction of a penny of that price is going to the CEO. Where is the rest of that money going? To the employees, to the employees of the stores suppliers, and so on.

You just explained why consumers drive the economy and not the business. The business exists to extract wealth while consumers create it. For the business owner and the employee.

Business can't "extract wealth". That is impossible.

If you don't provide me a product worth the price I am willing to pay, then I don't buy it from you.

If I don't buy it, then no wealth is extracted.

If the product is worth the money...... then wealth is still not extracted, because I have a product in my possession that is in equal worth to the amount of money I paid for it.

If the car isn't worth $10,000.... then I don't buy it. If it is... then I have a $10,000 car. No wealth was "extracted" from me.

Further you mention that this is a benefit for business owners and the employees..... but nearly all consumers are employees. So how can a group of people extract wealth, from themselves?

Again, if consumers were the driving factor, then why is there product shortages across the entire country of Venezuela? Are you saying there are no consumers? I promise you there are.

And if consumers were the driving factor in China, then why was there so little economic growth before they allowed wealthy people to invest in the economy?

Were there magically no consumers before, and magically they spawned into existence after liberalizing the economy.... and it just happen to be a magical fluke that wealthy people started creating companies and businesses at the same time?

No, I didn't explain why consumers drive the economy. You just refused to understand basic economics.

Profit doesn't extract money out of the economy and create wealth for the owner?

Well, it seems you're using the word "extract" because it sounds involuntary - as though the money was taken forcefully and not voluntarily exchanged. Is that your intent?

It's word. A simple one at that. I implied nothing. How about adressing my point rather than parsing.

You showed us all how the consumer pays the wages of the employees and makes the owner wealthy.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

The poor make the rich, rich. There's nothing inherently wrong with that. My beef is giving the rich all the credit.

What does "giving the rich all the credit" mean?

Just what it says.
Asserting that they somehow are responsible for diving the economy.

But you're advocating for something. What is it?

You just quoted my post where I told you.

Hmm.... I didn't see it. Are you suggesting any policy changes?

Not once.

 

[Andylusion]

I think I completely dismantled your case.... but if you want to think otherwise, you are allowed to be wrong on this forum.

No doubt you do.

Additionally, the vast majority of cost in any product, is the labor. So most of what you pay for any given product, goes to the employees, not the CEO.

Consider McDonald's for example. The entire store chain serves roughly 69 Million people a day. That's 25 Billion a year. The CEO last year got $21.8 Million. Now assuming that is all cash (which it is not), that means the CEO of McDonald's earned roughly 8/100th of a penny, per customer.

So when you drive through McDonald's and buy your $10 value meal.... a fraction of a penny of that price is going to the CEO. Where is the rest of that money going? To the employees, to the employees of the stores suppliers, and so on.

You just explained why consumers drive the economy and not the business. The business exists to extract wealth while consumers create it. For the business owner and the employee.

Business can't "extract wealth". That is impossible.

If you don't provide me a product worth the price I am willing to pay, then I don't buy it from you.

If I don't buy it, then no wealth is extracted.

If the product is worth the money...... then wealth is still not extracted, because I have a product in my possession that is in equal worth to the amount of money I paid for it.

If the car isn't worth $10,000.... then I don't buy it. If it is... then I have a $10,000 car. No wealth was "extracted" from me.

Further you mention that this is a benefit for business owners and the employees..... but nearly all consumers are employees. So how can a group of people extract wealth, from themselves?

Again, if consumers were the driving factor, then why is there product shortages across the entire country of Venezuela? Are you saying there are no consumers? I promise you there are.

And if consumers were the driving factor in China, then why was there so little economic growth before they allowed wealthy people to invest in the economy?

Were there magically no consumers before, and magically they spawned into existence after liberalizing the economy.... and it just happen to be a magical fluke that wealthy people started creating companies and businesses at the same time?

No, I didn't explain why consumers drive the economy. You just refused to understand basic economics.

Profit doesn't extract money out of the economy and create wealth for the owner?

Well, it seems you're using the word "extract" because it sounds involuntary - as though the money was taken forcefully and not voluntarily exchanged. Is that your intent?

It's word. A simple one at that. I implied nothing. How about adressing my point rather than parsing.

You showed us all how the consumer pays the wages of the employees and makes the owner wealthy.

What you said there, is true. What you said before about the wealthy not driving the economy, is wrong.

Yes, once the wealthy setup a system, all players in the system act according to what you said here.

But without the wealthy making that investment, nothing else happens.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Raising all wages.

What good would that do? I suppose we could achieve the same effect by just declaring all dollar bills to now be worth ten times as much. Hopefully you can see the stupidity in that.

Create growth.
70% of GDP is consumer spending.

Why is that a good thing?

WTF?
Seriously?

Yes, seriously.

Are you asking why growth is a good thing?

 

[dblack]

I think I completely dismantled your case.... but if you want to think otherwise, you are allowed to be wrong on this forum.

No doubt you do.

Additionally, the vast majority of cost in any product, is the labor. So most of what you pay for any given product, goes to the employees, not the CEO.

Consider McDonald's for example. The entire store chain serves roughly 69 Million people a day. That's 25 Billion a year. The CEO last year got $21.8 Million. Now assuming that is all cash (which it is not), that means the CEO of McDonald's earned roughly 8/100th of a penny, per customer.

So when you drive through McDonald's and buy your $10 value meal.... a fraction of a penny of that price is going to the CEO. Where is the rest of that money going? To the employees, to the employees of the stores suppliers, and so on.

You just explained why consumers drive the economy and not the business. The business exists to extract wealth while consumers create it. For the business owner and the employee.

Business can't "extract wealth". That is impossible.

If you don't provide me a product worth the price I am willing to pay, then I don't buy it from you.

If I don't buy it, then no wealth is extracted.

If the product is worth the money...... then wealth is still not extracted, because I have a product in my possession that is in equal worth to the amount of money I paid for it.

If the car isn't worth $10,000.... then I don't buy it. If it is... then I have a $10,000 car. No wealth was "extracted" from me.

Further you mention that this is a benefit for business owners and the employees..... but nearly all consumers are employees. So how can a group of people extract wealth, from themselves?

Again, if consumers were the driving factor, then why is there product shortages across the entire country of Venezuela? Are you saying there are no consumers? I promise you there are.

And if consumers were the driving factor in China, then why was there so little economic growth before they allowed wealthy people to invest in the economy?

Were there magically no consumers before, and magically they spawned into existence after liberalizing the economy.... and it just happen to be a magical fluke that wealthy people started creating companies and businesses at the same time?

No, I didn't explain why consumers drive the economy. You just refused to understand basic economics.

Profit doesn't extract money out of the economy and create wealth for the owner?

Well, it seems you're using the word "extract" because it sounds involuntary - as though the money was taken forcefully and not voluntarily exchanged. Is that your intent?

It's word. A simple one at that. I implied nothing. How about adressing my point rather than parsing.

I'm still trying to figure out what your point is.

You showed us all how the consumer pays the wages of the employees and makes the owner wealthy.

Right. So what?

 

[dblack]

What good would that do? I suppose we could achieve the same effect by just declaring all dollar bills to now be worth ten times as much. Hopefully you can see the stupidity in that.

Create growth.
70% of GDP is consumer spending.

Why is that a good thing?

WTF?
Seriously?

Yes, seriously.

Are you asking why growth is a good thing?

Yes. Why are you taking it for granted that growing ever more wealthy is good? There's more to life. I'd rather have a just government that protects liberty than one preoccupied with driving economic growth at all costs.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

No doubt you do.

You just explained why consumers drive the economy and not the business. The business exists to extract wealth while consumers create it. For the business owner and the employee.

Business can't "extract wealth". That is impossible.

If you don't provide me a product worth the price I am willing to pay, then I don't buy it from you.

If I don't buy it, then no wealth is extracted.

If the product is worth the money...... then wealth is still not extracted, because I have a product in my possession that is in equal worth to the amount of money I paid for it.

If the car isn't worth $10,000.... then I don't buy it. If it is... then I have a $10,000 car. No wealth was "extracted" from me.

Further you mention that this is a benefit for business owners and the employees..... but nearly all consumers are employees. So how can a group of people extract wealth, from themselves?

Again, if consumers were the driving factor, then why is there product shortages across the entire country of Venezuela? Are you saying there are no consumers? I promise you there are.

And if consumers were the driving factor in China, then why was there so little economic growth before they allowed wealthy people to invest in the economy?

Were there magically no consumers before, and magically they spawned into existence after liberalizing the economy.... and it just happen to be a magical fluke that wealthy people started creating companies and businesses at the same time?

No, I didn't explain why consumers drive the economy. You just refused to understand basic economics.

Profit doesn't extract money out of the economy and create wealth for the owner?

Well, it seems you're using the word "extract" because it sounds involuntary - as though the money was taken forcefully and not voluntarily exchanged. Is that your intent?

It's word. A simple one at that. I implied nothing. How about adressing my point rather than parsing.

You showed us all how the consumer pays the wages of the employees and makes the owner wealthy.

What you said there, is true. What you said before about the wealthy not driving the economy, is wrong.

Yes, once the wealthy setup a system, all players in the system act according to what you said here.

But without the wealthy making that investment, nothing else happens.

LOL
The "system" as you call it, was established for the sole purpose of making profit. Creating wealth for the owner. Not creating Jobs. The business exists soley to extract money from the economy. Not drive it.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

No doubt you do.

You just explained why consumers drive the economy and not the business. The business exists to extract wealth while consumers create it. For the business owner and the employee.

Business can't "extract wealth". That is impossible.

If you don't provide me a product worth the price I am willing to pay, then I don't buy it from you.

If I don't buy it, then no wealth is extracted.

If the product is worth the money...... then wealth is still not extracted, because I have a product in my possession that is in equal worth to the amount of money I paid for it.

If the car isn't worth $10,000.... then I don't buy it. If it is... then I have a $10,000 car. No wealth was "extracted" from me.

Further you mention that this is a benefit for business owners and the employees..... but nearly all consumers are employees. So how can a group of people extract wealth, from themselves?

Again, if consumers were the driving factor, then why is there product shortages across the entire country of Venezuela? Are you saying there are no consumers? I promise you there are.

And if consumers were the driving factor in China, then why was there so little economic growth before they allowed wealthy people to invest in the economy?

Were there magically no consumers before, and magically they spawned into existence after liberalizing the economy.... and it just happen to be a magical fluke that wealthy people started creating companies and businesses at the same time?

No, I didn't explain why consumers drive the economy. You just refused to understand basic economics.

Profit doesn't extract money out of the economy and create wealth for the owner?

Well, it seems you're using the word "extract" because it sounds involuntary - as though the money was taken forcefully and not voluntarily exchanged. Is that your intent?

It's word. A simple one at that. I implied nothing. How about adressing my point rather than parsing.

I'm still trying to figure out what your point is.

You showed us all how the consumer pays the wages of the employees and makes the owner wealthy.

Right. So what?

LOL
That's a consumer driven economy.

 

[dblack]

Business can't "extract wealth". That is impossible.

If you don't provide me a product worth the price I am willing to pay, then I don't buy it from you.

If I don't buy it, then no wealth is extracted.

If the product is worth the money...... then wealth is still not extracted, because I have a product in my possession that is in equal worth to the amount of money I paid for it.

If the car isn't worth $10,000.... then I don't buy it. If it is... then I have a $10,000 car. No wealth was "extracted" from me.

Further you mention that this is a benefit for business owners and the employees..... but nearly all consumers are employees. So how can a group of people extract wealth, from themselves?

Again, if consumers were the driving factor, then why is there product shortages across the entire country of Venezuela? Are you saying there are no consumers? I promise you there are.

And if consumers were the driving factor in China, then why was there so little economic growth before they allowed wealthy people to invest in the economy?

Were there magically no consumers before, and magically they spawned into existence after liberalizing the economy.... and it just happen to be a magical fluke that wealthy people started creating companies and businesses at the same time?

No, I didn't explain why consumers drive the economy. You just refused to understand basic economics.

Profit doesn't extract money out of the economy and create wealth for the owner?

Well, it seems you're using the word "extract" because it sounds involuntary - as though the money was taken forcefully and not voluntarily exchanged. Is that your intent?

It's word. A simple one at that. I implied nothing. How about adressing my point rather than parsing.

I'm still trying to figure out what your point is.

You showed us all how the consumer pays the wages of the employees and makes the owner wealthy.

Right. So what?

LOL
That's a consumer driven economy.

And? I mean you're staking out a semantic claim here. We could dig into what "driving" an economy means, but why does it matter?

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Create growth.
70% of GDP is consumer spending.

Why is that a good thing?

WTF?
Seriously?

Yes, seriously.

Are you asking why growth is a good thing?

Yes. Why are you taking it for granted that growing ever more wealthy is good? There's more to life. I'd rather have a just government that protects liberty than one preoccupied with driving economic growth at all costs.

Wow.
You just folded big time.
That's capitalism.

 

[dblack]

Why is that a good thing?

WTF?
Seriously?

Yes, seriously.

Are you asking why growth is a good thing?

Yes. Why are you taking it for granted that growing ever more wealthy is good? There's more to life. I'd rather have a just government that protects liberty than one preoccupied with driving economic growth at all costs.

Wow.
You just folded big time.
That's capitalism.

What?? How did I "fold"? What are you referring to when you say "That's capitalism"? Growth? Or government preoccupied with growth?