Trade Wars - just getting started

[RealDave]

That is what happens when people/places fail to adapt and change.

US manufacturers could never become more competitive as the wages they had to pay were never going to allow them to. The only way to become more competitive was through technology and automation, which again does not help much when it comes to jobs.

Wages doesn't explain why the EU has a large trade surplus with US.

Germany has an nice large trade surplus and they have twice the level of manufacturing employment we have, so automation doesn't seem to be a job killer on that side of the Atlantic.


And regardless, the point is,


what was supposed to happen, did not happen.


The policy has failed.


Time to adapt and change to that reality.

There is no policy that failed, there are just the realities of the world we live in today as opposed to the time of Lincoln.

As the saying goes, you cannot put the genie back in the bottle


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Free Trade, or should I say, "Free Trade" is a policy.


Certain claims were made about how it would benefit US in the long run.


Those claims have not been borne out.


A policy that does not deliver the promised benefits is a failed policy.



Stating over and over again that "times have changed " is not an argument.

More of a philosophy than a policy. And while the free trade might have hurt some sectors, it has helped others.

It is hard to make the argument that free trade has not benefited the US when we are in the midst of the 3rd longest period of economic expansion since the great depression.

We've been ignoring, if not maliciously slandering those sectors it hurt for decades now, and the human cost and damage to the fabric of American society has been great and growing.


I want more and better jobs and wages for the working poor and middle class in this country.


ASAP.

You think corporations can't afford to pay more?

 

[RealDave]

Who pays these tariffs, US consumers.

Yes, just like who pays the minimum wage increases. You weren't so concerned about the American consumer then.

Don't confuse them ray..they may start thinking

When have you people ever had an original thought.

Here is an example. Trump starts slapping on tariffs. What will other countries do?

a) Nothing
b) Return the favor.

Trump cuts corporate income tax. The other counties will:

a) do nothing
b) cut their tax rate
c Consider the cuts as subsidies 7 slap on tariffs

Consider the cuts as subsidies

Across the board tax cuts aren't subsidies.

Slashing the corporate rate could be seen as the government subsidizing industry. It has in the past.

The US has filed complaints when other countries did similar things.

"Germany and other European nations see the tax bill as an attempt to penalize imports and discourage trade from other countries. In a lot of ways, they are right. "

 

[RealDave]

It starts with the rhetoric. Then it goes to the demands.

Then you pull out of trade agreements like TPP & soon NAFTA.

You then call our best trading partners, Canada & Mexico, names & insult their leaders.
....s.

These people have been insulting our leader.


And Trump is willing to have trade agreements, just ones that don't fuck US.


So, why is this on Trump and not on them?

1) Trump insulted them

2) Reporting on stupid shit Trump does is not insulting him. It is reporting what he says & does.

3) These trade deals are not "fucking" us.

Who gives a fuck If Trump insults them?


I insult lefties that are fools on here on a daily basis

It makes a big difference Bear. Just because you are tough key board commando talking tough here doesn’t represent the reality except in a bar or in the the forest.

In Trump case insulting other people or countries only shows he is ignorant, not a leader, incompetent, arrogant, bully etc etc wtc.

Correct, because when good leaders are attacked first, they sit there and take it.

A good leader does not insult others like a fucking 5 year old spoiled brat. Donald Trump is a shithole leadfer.

Where are all the deals? that he has negotiated on trade?

He is getting no wherte with NAFTA because he is shit negotiator.

The only way your orange buddy can do anything is through extortion.

 

[RealDave]

It starts with the rhetoric. Then it goes to the demands.

Then you pull out of trade agreements like TPP & soon NAFTA.

You then call our best trading partners, Canada & Mexico, names & insult their leaders.
....s.

These people have been insulting our leader.
?

Like WHO? In reality Trump insulted lots of foreign leaders including close allies. That’s a fact.

They insulted him. That's a fact.


Is it only a problem when we do it? Is it cool when other people insult US?

Name one insult that was not deserved?

 

[Correll]

Wages doesn't explain why the EU has a large trade surplus with US.

Germany has an nice large trade surplus and they have twice the level of manufacturing employment we have, so automation doesn't seem to be a job killer on that side of the Atlantic.


And regardless, the point is,


what was supposed to happen, did not happen.


The policy has failed.


Time to adapt and change to that reality.

There is no policy that failed, there are just the realities of the world we live in today as opposed to the time of Lincoln.

As the saying goes, you cannot put the genie back in the bottle


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Free Trade, or should I say, "Free Trade" is a policy.


Certain claims were made about how it would benefit US in the long run.


Those claims have not been borne out.


A policy that does not deliver the promised benefits is a failed policy.



Stating over and over again that "times have changed " is not an argument.

More of a philosophy than a policy. And while the free trade might have hurt some sectors, it has helped others.

It is hard to make the argument that free trade has not benefited the US when we are in the midst of the 3rd longest period of economic expansion since the great depression.

We've been ignoring, if not maliciously slandering those sectors it hurt for decades now, and the human cost and damage to the fabric of American society has been great and growing.


I want more and better jobs and wages for the working poor and middle class in this country.


ASAP.

You think corporations can't afford to pay more?

I think corporations will pay as little as they can.


Thus I want to craft policy that creates a Labor Supply/Demand ration that forces them to raise wages.



THus leading to more and better jobs for the working poor and the middle class in this country.

 

[Correll]

It starts with the rhetoric. Then it goes to the demands.

Then you pull out of trade agreements like TPP & soon NAFTA.

You then call our best trading partners, Canada & Mexico, names & insult their leaders.
....s.

These people have been insulting our leader.
?

Like WHO? In reality Trump insulted lots of foreign leaders including close allies. That’s a fact.

They insulted him. That's a fact.


Is it only a problem when we do it? Is it cool when other people insult US?

Name one insult that was not deserved?

I would be glad to,


except that it is not relevant to the question of whether these leaders insulted him, despite it being very undiplomatic.

 

[Correll]

These people have been insulting our leader.


And Trump is willing to have trade agreements, just ones that don't fuck US.


So, why is this on Trump and not on them?

1) Trump insulted them

2) Reporting on stupid shit Trump does is not insulting him. It is reporting what he says & does.

3) These trade deals are not "fucking" us.

Who gives a fuck If Trump insults them?


I insult lefties that are fools on here on a daily basis

It makes a big difference Bear. Just because you are tough key board commando talking tough here doesn’t represent the reality except in a bar or in the the forest.

In Trump case insulting other people or countries only shows he is ignorant, not a leader, incompetent, arrogant, bully etc etc wtc.

Correct, because when good leaders are attacked first, they sit there and take it.

A good leader does not insult others like a fucking 5 year old spoiled brat. Donald Trump is a shithole leadfer.

Where are all the deals? that he has negotiated on trade?

He is getting no wherte with NAFTA because he is shit negotiator.

The only way your orange buddy can do anything is through extortion.

Yet you defend them insulting our leader.


Does that make them 5 year olds? Or you? Both?

 

[Papageorgio]

Who pays these tariffs, US consumers.

Yes, just like who pays the minimum wage increases. You weren't so concerned about the American consumer then.

Don't confuse them ray..they may start thinking

That will never happen.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

These people have been insulting our leader.


And Trump is willing to have trade agreements, just ones that don't fuck US.


So, why is this on Trump and not on them?

1) Trump insulted them

2) Reporting on stupid shit Trump does is not insulting him. It is reporting what he says & does.

3) These trade deals are not "fucking" us.

Who gives a fuck If Trump insults them?


I insult lefties that are fools on here on a daily basis

It makes a big difference Bear. Just because you are tough key board commando talking tough here doesn’t represent the reality except in a bar or in the the forest.

In Trump case insulting other people or countries only shows he is ignorant, not a leader, incompetent, arrogant, bully etc etc wtc.

Correct, because when good leaders are attacked first, they sit there and take it.

A good leader does not insult others like a fucking 5 year old spoiled brat. Donald Trump is a shithole leadfer.

Where are all the deals? that he has negotiated on trade?

He is getting no wherte with NAFTA because he is shit negotiator.

The only way your orange buddy can do anything is through extortion.

Extortion? Do you even know what the word means?????

Trump has been in just a little over a year now, and there is much more work to be done. But thus far, he's been very productive on major fronts like the economy.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Who pays these tariffs, US consumers.

Yes, just like who pays the minimum wage increases. You weren't so concerned about the American consumer then.

Don't confuse them ray..they may start thinking

When have you people ever had an original thought.

Here is an example. Trump starts slapping on tariffs. What will other countries do?

a) Nothing
b) Return the favor.

Trump cuts corporate income tax. The other counties will:

a) do nothing
b) cut their tax rate
c Consider the cuts as subsidies 7 slap on tariffs

Consider the cuts as subsidies

Across the board tax cuts aren't subsidies.

Slashing the corporate rate could be seen as the government subsidizing industry. It has in the past.

The US has filed complaints when other countries did similar things.

"Germany and other European nations see the tax bill as an attempt to penalize imports and discourage trade from other countries. In a lot of ways, they are right. "

Oh yeah? And just what are their corporate tax rates?

 

[Papageorgio]

So how much does a typical solar panel cost? How many of the panels do you need for a home?


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[Ray From Cleveland]

So how much does a typical solar panel cost? How many of the panels do you need for a home?


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If you live up north, it doesn't really matter all that much since half of the year your roof is covered with snow. Bad investment.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Who pays these tariffs, US consumers.

Yes, just like who pays the minimum wage increases. You weren't so concerned about the American consumer then.

Don't confuse them ray..they may start thinking

When have you people ever had an original thought.

Here is an example. Trump starts slapping on tariffs. What will other countries do?

a) Nothing
b) Return the favor.

Trump cuts corporate income tax. The other counties will:

a) do nothing
b) cut their tax rate
c Consider the cuts as subsidies 7 slap on tariffs

Consider the cuts as subsidies

Across the board tax cuts aren't subsidies.

Slashing the corporate rate could be seen as the government subsidizing industry. It has in the past.

The US has filed complaints when other countries did similar things.

"Germany and other European nations see the tax bill as an attempt to penalize imports and discourage trade from other countries. In a lot of ways, they are right. "

Slashing the corporate rate could be seen as the government subsidizing industry. It has in the past.

Nope. Not if it's all companies, instead of just favored exporters.

The US has filed complaints when other countries did similar things.

Sure, when the EU gives Airbus a special, lower tax.

"Germany and other European nations see the tax bill as an attempt to penalize imports and discourage trade from other countries. In a lot of ways, they are right. "

Yup, when you make your domestic companies more competitive, you might buy fewer imports.

 

[Papageorgio]

So how much does a typical solar panel cost? How many of the panels do you need for a home?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you live up north, it doesn't really matter all that much since half of the year your roof is covered with snow. Bad investment.

They mentioned the panel would be $25 more, if a house took ten panels it would be $250 more, doesn’t seem that expensive to me. So I am not seeing the doom and gloom that we are hearing about.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So how much does a typical solar panel cost? How many of the panels do you need for a home?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you live up north, it doesn't really matter all that much since half of the year your roof is covered with snow. Bad investment.

They mentioned the panel would be $25 more, if a house took ten panels it would be $250 more, doesn’t seem that expensive to me. So I am not seeing the doom and gloom that we are hearing about.

Doing a little research, the consensus seems to be that (depending on your utility costs) you would break even between 15 and 25 years. That's provided one or more panels doesn't break down and need replacement. I don't know, but I'm assuming panels are like anything else where there are cheaper ones and better quality ones.

In any case, panels would be a losing investment if not for the government subsides that go along with it, so in a sense, taxpayers are funding your solar panels as well.

 

[RealDave]

Yes, just like who pays the minimum wage increases. You weren't so concerned about the American consumer then.

Don't confuse them ray..they may start thinking

When have you people ever had an original thought.

Here is an example. Trump starts slapping on tariffs. What will other countries do?

a) Nothing
b) Return the favor.

Trump cuts corporate income tax. The other counties will:

a) do nothing
b) cut their tax rate
c Consider the cuts as subsidies 7 slap on tariffs

Consider the cuts as subsidies

Across the board tax cuts aren't subsidies.

Slashing the corporate rate could be seen as the government subsidizing industry. It has in the past.

The US has filed complaints when other countries did similar things.

"Germany and other European nations see the tax bill as an attempt to penalize imports and discourage trade from other countries. In a lot of ways, they are right. "

Slashing the corporate rate could be seen as the government subsidizing industry. It has in the past.

Nope. Not if it's all companies, instead of just favored exporters.

The US has filed complaints when other countries did similar things.

Sure, when the EU gives Airbus a special, lower tax.

"Germany and other European nations see the tax bill as an attempt to penalize imports and discourage trade from other countries. In a lot of ways, they are right. "

Yup, when you make your domestic companies more competitive, you might buy fewer imports.

To think that no country will do anything is so naive. So naive for your orange dumbass buddy & so naive for you.

 

[RealDave]

So how much does a typical solar panel cost? How many of the panels do you need for a home?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you live up north, it doesn't really matter all that much since half of the year your roof is covered with snow. Bad investment.

They mentioned the panel would be $25 more, if a house took ten panels it would be $250 more, doesn’t seem that expensive to me. So I am not seeing the doom and gloom that we are hearing about.

Doing a little research, the consensus seems to be that (depending on your utility costs) you would break even between 15 and 25 years. That's provided one or more panels doesn't break down and need replacement. I don't know, but I'm assuming panels are like anything else where there are cheaper ones and better quality ones.

In any case, panels would be a losing investment if not for the government subsides that go along with it, so in a sense, taxpayers are funding your solar panels as well.[/QUOT

We all now that the fossil fuel industry gets no subsidies.

Panels do have a pay back period. What is the pay back period for your coal fired electricity?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Don't confuse them ray..they may start thinking

When have you people ever had an original thought.

Here is an example. Trump starts slapping on tariffs. What will other countries do?

a) Nothing
b) Return the favor.

Trump cuts corporate income tax. The other counties will:

a) do nothing
b) cut their tax rate
c Consider the cuts as subsidies 7 slap on tariffs

Consider the cuts as subsidies

Across the board tax cuts aren't subsidies.

Slashing the corporate rate could be seen as the government subsidizing industry. It has in the past.

The US has filed complaints when other countries did similar things.

"Germany and other European nations see the tax bill as an attempt to penalize imports and discourage trade from other countries. In a lot of ways, they are right. "

Slashing the corporate rate could be seen as the government subsidizing industry. It has in the past.

Nope. Not if it's all companies, instead of just favored exporters.

The US has filed complaints when other countries did similar things.

Sure, when the EU gives Airbus a special, lower tax.

"Germany and other European nations see the tax bill as an attempt to penalize imports and discourage trade from other countries. In a lot of ways, they are right. "

Yup, when you make your domestic companies more competitive, you might buy fewer imports.

To think that no country will do anything is so naive. So naive for your orange dumbass buddy & so naive for you.

They're free to institute their own tax cuts.

 

[RealDave]

So how much does a typical solar panel cost? How many of the panels do you need for a home?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you live up north, it doesn't really matter all that much since half of the year your roof is covered with snow. Bad investment.

So the snow on panels is not removable.

 

[RealDave]

When have you people ever had an original thought.

Here is an example. Trump starts slapping on tariffs. What will other countries do?

a) Nothing
b) Return the favor.

Trump cuts corporate income tax. The other counties will:

a) do nothing
b) cut their tax rate
c Consider the cuts as subsidies 7 slap on tariffs

Consider the cuts as subsidies

Across the board tax cuts aren't subsidies.

Slashing the corporate rate could be seen as the government subsidizing industry. It has in the past.

The US has filed complaints when other countries did similar things.

"Germany and other European nations see the tax bill as an attempt to penalize imports and discourage trade from other countries. In a lot of ways, they are right. "

Slashing the corporate rate could be seen as the government subsidizing industry. It has in the past.

Nope. Not if it's all companies, instead of just favored exporters.

The US has filed complaints when other countries did similar things.

Sure, when the EU gives Airbus a special, lower tax.

"Germany and other European nations see the tax bill as an attempt to penalize imports and discourage trade from other countries. In a lot of ways, they are right. "

Yup, when you make your domestic companies more competitive, you might buy fewer imports.

To think that no country will do anything is so naive. So naive for your orange dumbass buddy & so naive for you.

They're free to institute their own tax cuts.

Then Trumps cut is worthless & it just cost us hundreds of billions in lost revenue.