Zone1 Trans Supporters: If you can be Trans-gender, can people also be Trans-racial or Trans-age?

[Seymour Flops]

Yes, it is real just like many other societal constructs are real.

How many genders are there? As many as people want their to be. Who am I to say they are wrong?

Good. I want there to be two, so that the word continues to corresponds to reality. If the wokesters can change the meaning of that word, I can change it back.

If words don't mean anything other what the speaker wants them to mean, then conversation can become meaningless pretty quickly. More importantly, debate becomes impossible almost immediately. That second is most often what those who assign new meanings to words in political discourse are aiming for. If I remember, I will demonstrate that the next time you disagree with me about something.

"Gender," as used to discuss people, has always been a synonym for "sex" as in male or female, used to avoid being confused by the other meaning of "sex." There are two sexes, so there are two genders. That is reality.

The spouse of a co-workers is trans...their gender went from male to non-binary to female. I do not understand a lick of it personally but they seem far happier now than they were two years ago so I am happy for them.

His gender did not go from male to non-binary to female. That is his fantasy, that you choose to go along with out of friendship. Male and female are biological terms and the change you describe is impossible.

I don't criticize you for going along. I have a student coming to my school next year who is female who identifies as a boy. I'll call her "he" and by her chosen boys name. I'll advocate that her teachers do the same, since she acts out at her current school when teachers don't use her chosen pronouns and name.

But I will know, and so will all people who are in touch with reality, that she is female, and a girl, and that if she does not fall into the hands of the predatory transgenderization movement, she could someday give birth and breast feed her children. Because that's something most women can do.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Good. I want there to be two, so that the word continues to corresponds to reality. If the wokesters can change the meaning of that word, I can change it back

Of course, it can mean whatever you want it to mean. One of the joys of living in a free country.

If words don't mean anything other what the speaker wants them to mean, then conversation can become meaningless pretty quickly More importantly, debate becomes impossible almost immediately. That second is most often what those who assign new meanings to words in political discourse are aiming for. If I remember, I will demonstrate that the next time you disagree with me about something.

Then perhaps you should go along with what society has decided the word means. But you do not have to.

"Gender," as used to discuss people, has always been a synonym for "sex" as in male or female, used to avoid being confused by the other meaning of "sex." There are two sexes, so there are two genders. That is reality.

It was not always, in fact I never remember it being used in place of sex till the late 70s early 80s when the Moral Majority decided sex was a dirty word and did not want to use it

His gender did not go from male to non-binary to female. That is his fantasy, that you choose to go along with out of friendship. Male and female are biological terms and the change you describe is impossible.

Their sex did not change, I agree with that.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Of course, it can mean whatever you want it to mean. One of the joys of living in a free country.

Then perhaps you should go along with what society has decided the word means. But you do not have to.

You should heed your own advice:

New poll sheds light on how Americans feel about transgender rights

A majority of survey respondents back transgender sports bans, while also supporting nondiscrimination protections for trans people in jobs, housing and public spaces.

www.nbcnews.com

The survey of more than 10,000 adults, which was conducted May 16-22 and published Tuesday, found that 60% say a person's gender is determined at birth, up from 56% in 2021 and 54% in 2017.

Most U.S. Adults Believe There Are Only 2 Genders, Survey Shows

Another question in the poll about author J.K. Rowling prompted a response from the "Harry Potter" creator.

www.newsweek.com

You are on the wrong side of history, sir.

It was not always, in fact I never remember it being used in place of sex till the late 70s early 80s when the Moral Majority decided sex was a dirty word and did not want to use it

So, only for fifty years? How well do you remember the sixties and fifties?

Their sex did not change, I agree with that.

Nor did their gender change.

By change I mean specifically a physical change.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

You are on the wrong side of history, sir.

I am not actually. If your read your link you would see the younger the respondent to the survey the less chance they think gender is assigned at birth.

This is a losing battle for you all, you will die off and be forgotten.

You would actually do your side better by agreeing with me that sex and gender are not the same. This removes the problem of trans people in the wrong sport since sports should be based upon sex and not gender. The sex on your birth certificate is the side of sports you play in, regardless of gender. Simple fix, but you going along with the myth that gender and sex are the same just helps those trying to make biological women compete against trans-women.

So, only for fifty years? How well do you remember the sixties and fifties?

I was born in the early 60s, so not well at all!

Nor did their gender change.

By change I mean specifically a physical change.

Gender is not physical, thus there is nothing physical to change

 

[Mr. Friscus]

So, let’s stipulate that you are correct, which I would applaud in fact, and that it then is impossible for men to become women, and women to become men. That being true, it is absurd to demand society accept the premise to begin with.

So now show me where I indicated I hated trans or gays

Most of the LGBTQ community, as well as democrats and the Biden administration, act like spoiled brats.. spewing temper tantrums at people who simply don’t agree with their sudden, astronomically radical claims.

You have to be an overly entitled elitist or narcissist to think that way…

 

[Seymour Flops]

I am not actually. If your read your link you would see the younger the respondent to the survey the less chance they think gender is assigned at birth.

The NBC poll said that half of adults 18 to 29 know that gender is what you are assigned at birth, and that a much larger percent of older adults know that. It also shows that the percent of people who understand the reality is growing.

That as many as half of younger adults think gender is mutable only shows that the media is more successful at gaslighting the young than the mature. Those young uns will grow out of it.

This is a losing battle for you all, you will die off and be forgotten.

We will all die off and be forgotten.

You would actually do your side better by agreeing with me that sex and gender are not the same.

No, because I'm sane and rational.

This removes the problem of trans people in the wrong sport since sports should be based upon sex and not gender. The sex on your birth certificate is the side of sports you play in, regardless of gender. Simple fix, but you going along with the myth that gender and sex are the same just helps those trying to make biological women compete against trans-women.

That simple fix would not work at all, because the people who want to let men on womens teams would never go along with your idea to go by birth certificate.

You actually think when they say, "my gender is girl, so I can play on the girls team," and the school says "we go by sex on your birth certificate," the transactivists are going to say, "well, that's it then. I'll go back to the boys team. Oh wait, I never was able to make the boys team, so I guess I don't get to play."

I was born in the early 60s, so not well at all!

Rendering meaningless you not remembering gender being used on place of sex until the 70's.

Gender is not physical, thus there is nothing physical to change

"Gender," as applied to people, means physical gender.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

That simple fix would not work at all, because the people who want to let men on womens teams would never go along with your idea to go by birth certificate.

You actually think when they say, "my gender is girl, so I can play on the girls team," and the school says "we go by sex on your birth certificate," the transactivists are going to say, "well, that's it then. I'll go back to the boys team. Oh wait, I never was able to make the boys team, so I guess I don't get to play."

They would not have any choice.

But you instead play into their hands by agreeing with the myth sex and gender are the same thing

"Gender," as applied to people, means physical gender.

According to you, not science.

 

[Seymour Flops]

They would not have any choice.

But you instead play into their hands by agreeing with the myth sex and gender are the same thing

That is absurd. You play into their hands by pretending that sex and gender are different. You accept their idea of gender as a malleable social construct and that gives them an argument for boys to go on the girls team. Obviously that argument is illogical, but having already accepted the illogic about sex and gender being different, decision makers are softened up to accept another one.

According to you, not science.

Who is "science?" I thought you said words mean whatever people say that they mean. "Change" means "physical change." Show me any science that refutes that. What science studies so-called "non-physical changes?"

 

[Harpy Eagle]

That is absurd. You play into their hands by pretending that sex and gender are different. You accept their idea of gender as a malleable social construct and that gives them an argument for boys to go on the girls team. Obviously that argument is illogical, but having already accepted the illogic about sex and gender being different, decision makers are softened up to accept another one.

Since gender has nothing to do with physicals ability it makes no sense for gender to be a factor in sports.

Sex and gender have always been different things, gender was based on sex, but it was never the same thing as sex.

If sports can be limited by age, they can be limited by sex. Both would use the same document to decide the league one gets to play.

Who is "science?" I thought you said words mean whatever people say that they mean. "Change" means "physical change." Show me any science that refutes that. What science studies so-called "non-physical changes?"

Gender is not a term of science, sex is the term science uses.

Sex is physical, it is based upon your chromosomes. Gender is not, it is just a made up human construct that is always subject to change.

 

[Dadoalex]

Nope, it's just showing that the name of a group doesn't always represent what the group believes.

They are anarchists, Maoists, and probably some left over Trotskyists.

No. They're the modern version of ANTI-FASCISTS

AND

Since they use the same tactics as your MAGA buddies I guess your friends are Communists too?

 

[martybegan]

No. They're the modern version of ANTI-FASCISTS

AND

Since they use the same tactics as your MAGA buddies I guess your friends are Communists too?

No, they are not. They are the Red Guards of this current era. The Left equivalent of the SA.

They are far more dangerous than any MAGA types.

Just look at was has happened, and what may happen down in Atlanta due to the police training facility being built.

After 16 hours, Atlanta City Council approves money for 'cop city'

 

[Seymour Flops]

Since gender has nothing to do with physicals ability it makes no sense for gender to be a factor in sports.

Sex and gender have always been different things, gender was based on sex, but it was never the same thing as sex.

If sports can be limited by age, they can be limited by sex. Both would use the same document to decide the league one gets to play.

You are being repetitive to avoid answering the question.

Gender is not a term of science, sex is the term science uses.

Sex is physical, it is based upon your chromosomes. Gender is not, it is just a made up human construct that is always subject to change.

You said that "science disagrees" that changes are physical. What science is about non-physical changes?

 

[Harpy Eagle]

You said that "science disagrees" that changes are physical. What science is about non-physical changes?

I said science disagrees with this..."Gender," as applied to people, means physical gender."

There is no such thing as physical gender in the realm of science

 

[Seymour Flops]

I said science disagrees with this..."Gender," as applied to people, means physical gender."

There is no such thing as physical gender in the realm of science

Then science has no opinion on the topic. If it isn't physical what is it?

By the definition I use gender is as physical as sex. Society agrees. So by all means let's debate whether physical gender can be changed.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Then science has no opinion on the topic. If it isn't physical what is it?

mostly mental. Feelings and shit like that.

By the definition I use gender is as physical as sex.

I cannot help if you use a made up definition that aids those that you claim to be against .

So by all means let's debate whether physical gender can be changed.

Sex Reassignment Surgery in the Female-to-Male Transsexual

In female-to-male transsexuals, the operative procedures are usually performed in different stages: first the subcutaneous mastectomy which is often combined with a hysterectomy-ovarectomy (endoscopically assisted). The next operative ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[marvin martian]

mostly mental. Feelings and shit like that.



I cannot help if you use a made up definition that aids those that you claim to be against .

Sex Reassignment Surgery in the Female-to-Male Transsexual

In female-to-male transsexuals, the operative procedures are usually performed in different stages: first the subcutaneous mastectomy which is often combined with a hysterectomy-ovarectomy (endoscopically assisted). The next operative ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

If you accept transgenderism, you MUST accept transracialism.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

No. They're the modern version of ANTI-FASCISTS

AND

Since they use the same tactics as your MAGA buddies I guess your friends are Communists too?

No, they are not. They are the Red Guards of this current era. The Left equivalent of the SA.

They are far more dangerous than any MAGA types.

Just look at was has happened, and what may happen down in Atlanta due to the police training facility being built.

After 16 hours, Atlanta City Council approves money for 'cop city'

I'm sure one of you can explain what either of this has to do with the thread topic, right?

 

[Seymour Flops]

mostly mental. Feelings and shit like that.

I cannot help if you use a made up definition that aids those that you claim to be against .

Are you serious? That gender is the same as sex when sex means male or female isn't something I made up. This whole "gender-fluid, non-binary, I was a boy, but now I am a girl" because "feelings and shit" is the made up definition.

Sex Reassignment Surgery in the Female-to-Male Transsexual

In female-to-male transsexuals, the operative procedures are usually performed in different stages: first the subcutaneous mastectomy which is often combined with a hysterectomy-ovarectomy (endoscopically assisted). The next operative ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Yes, tragic when a person of the female gender does that to herself. What does that have to do with changing gender?

In female-to-male transsexuals, the operative procedures are usually performed in different stages: first the subcutaneous mastectomy which is often combined with a hysterectomy-ovarectomy (endoscopically assisted). The next operative procedure consists of the genital transformation and includes a vaginectomy, a reconstruction of the horizontal part of the urethra, a scrotoplasty and a penile reconstruction usually with a radial forearm flap (or an alternative). After about one year, penile (erection) prosthesis and testicular prostheses can be implanted when sensation has returned to the tip of the penis.

The sad part is that the surgery and the hormones are completely unnecessary.

Take your friend. If he belives that he is now female, why not continue to accept his body as it is now? Why have a surgery that is just as grusome as the one you posted for so-called "female-to-male" surgery? He has friends who accept him. Anyone who does not accept him now, is unlikely to accept him because he gets his body altered.

Most of the cosmetic changes provided by the surgery can be accomplished with shapewear, female clothing and makeup, and maybe some facial surgery. It is unlikely he will then look like anything but a man trying to look like a woman, but the same is true for people who have the surgery.

I hope as a friend, you would encourage him to accept himself as he is, and not find a doctor to profit from mutilating him.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Are you serious? That gender is the same as sex when sex means male or female isn't something I made up. This whole "gender-fluid, non-binary, I was a boy, but now I am a girl" because "feelings and shit" is the made up definition.

Yes, gender equals sex is always a made up definition.

Yes, tragic when a person of the female gender does that to herself. What does that have to do with changing gender?

It is those physical changes you were talking about.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Yes, gender equals sex is always a made up definition.

Every definition is a made up definition. But that particular one of gender meaning biological sex was made up long before I was born. I heard it used that way until very recently, when it became convenient for transactivists to redefine it.

It is those physical changes you were talking about.

Physical changes to gender?