Tropospheric Hot Spot- Why it does not exist...

[Toddsterpatriot]

It seems you don't. All of those balls are thrown at the same time. If you really think none will hit in between never watched dodgeball. Let me take a pause and have you explain how they don't hit!

You still don't understand the analogy.
The balls are like photons. Thermal photons simply do not hit each other.
I thought I made it as simple as possible. I'm sorry you don't understand it as an analogy.

Guess you never watched a dodgeball game.

Again, why don't they hit each other while occupying the same space?

I like they way they go on about what photons are doing or are not doing while at this point in the 21'st century, photons are still theoretical particles without the first piece of real evidence to support the claim that they exist...they are a story...a place holder that we use to try and describe something that we don't yet understand and in fact, don't have the first real clue as to what is going on...these guys who talk as if this is all real, and not just theoretical storytelling are doing nothing but yanking their own chains...they have given science the place of some sort of all knowing divinity in their minds....sad really to allow yourself to fool yourself that badly.

I loved the analogy that wuwei waged. throwing balls back and forth and none would ever hit in between. wow.

throwing balls back and forth and none would ever hit in between. wow

You think photons can hit one another? Link?

 

[jc456]

why will it? I said show it. dude I still have crickets from you and your friends.

BTW, my evidence is the fact that the object supposedly being hit doesn't increase in temperature.

why will it?

They travel until they hit something.
If it travels toward a warmer object, it will hit it, unless it hits something else first.

BTW, my evidence is the fact that the object supposedly being hit doesn't increase in temperature.

The warmer object emits more photons than it absorbs.....see Stefan-Boltzmann.

so you can't show that photon hitting now can you? Just as I already posted. thanks.

If I had a warm photon detector it would detect a "colder photon" hitting it.
You're welcome.

If I had a warm photon detector it would detect a "colder photon" hitting it

no you don't. And you have no observation from any experiment that shows that. thank you!!!!

no you don't.

No I don't......what?

And you have no observation from any experiment that shows that.

No one has ever observed or detected a "colder photon" striking a photon detector? Are you sure?

No one has ever observed or detected a "colder photon" striking a photon detector? Are you sure?

well none from you I am sure.

No I don't......what?

have a warm detector, to detect a cold photon. No you don't.

 

[jc456]

It seems you don't. All of those balls are thrown at the same time. If you really think none will hit in between never watched dodgeball. Let me take a pause and have you explain how they don't hit!

You still don't understand the analogy.
The balls are like photons. Thermal photons simply do not hit each other.
I thought I made it as simple as possible. I'm sorry you don't understand it as an analogy.

Guess you never watched a dodgeball game.

Again, why don't they hit each other while occupying the same space?

I like they way they go on about what photons are doing or are not doing while at this point in the 21'st century, photons are still theoretical particles without the first piece of real evidence to support the claim that they exist...they are a story...a place holder that we use to try and describe something that we don't yet understand and in fact, don't have the first real clue as to what is going on...these guys who talk as if this is all real, and not just theoretical storytelling are doing nothing but yanking their own chains...they have given science the place of some sort of all knowing divinity in their minds....sad really to allow yourself to fool yourself that badly.

I loved the analogy that wuwei waged. throwing balls back and forth and none would ever hit in between. wow.

throwing balls back and forth and none would ever hit in between. wow

You think photons can hit one another? Link?

I know balls can. so?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

why will it?

They travel until they hit something.
If it travels toward a warmer object, it will hit it, unless it hits something else first.

BTW, my evidence is the fact that the object supposedly being hit doesn't increase in temperature.

The warmer object emits more photons than it absorbs.....see Stefan-Boltzmann.

so you can't show that photon hitting now can you? Just as I already posted. thanks.

If I had a warm photon detector it would detect a "colder photon" hitting it.
You're welcome.

If I had a warm photon detector it would detect a "colder photon" hitting it

no you don't. And you have no observation from any experiment that shows that. thank you!!!!

no you don't.

No I don't......what?

And you have no observation from any experiment that shows that.

No one has ever observed or detected a "colder photon" striking a photon detector? Are you sure?

No one has ever observed or detected a "colder photon" striking a photon detector? Are you sure?

well none from you I am sure.

No I don't......what?

have a warm detector, to detect a cold photon. No you don't.

What is a Photon Detector?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You still don't understand the analogy.
The balls are like photons. Thermal photons simply do not hit each other.
I thought I made it as simple as possible. I'm sorry you don't understand it as an analogy.

Guess you never watched a dodgeball game.

Again, why don't they hit each other while occupying the same space?

I like they way they go on about what photons are doing or are not doing while at this point in the 21'st century, photons are still theoretical particles without the first piece of real evidence to support the claim that they exist...they are a story...a place holder that we use to try and describe something that we don't yet understand and in fact, don't have the first real clue as to what is going on...these guys who talk as if this is all real, and not just theoretical storytelling are doing nothing but yanking their own chains...they have given science the place of some sort of all knowing divinity in their minds....sad really to allow yourself to fool yourself that badly.

I loved the analogy that wuwei waged. throwing balls back and forth and none would ever hit in between. wow.

throwing balls back and forth and none would ever hit in between. wow

You think photons can hit one another? Link?

I know balls can. so?

You think a photon is like a ball?

 

[jc456]

so you can't show that photon hitting now can you? Just as I already posted. thanks.

If I had a warm photon detector it would detect a "colder photon" hitting it.
You're welcome.

If I had a warm photon detector it would detect a "colder photon" hitting it

no you don't. And you have no observation from any experiment that shows that. thank you!!!!

no you don't.

No I don't......what?

And you have no observation from any experiment that shows that.

No one has ever observed or detected a "colder photon" striking a photon detector? Are you sure?

No one has ever observed or detected a "colder photon" striking a photon detector? Are you sure?

well none from you I am sure.

No I don't......what?

have a warm detector, to detect a cold photon. No you don't.

What is a Photon Detector?

ok so hold that sucker between two objects at the same temperature and tell me what the photon detector shows.

 

[jc456]

Guess you never watched a dodgeball game.

Again, why don't they hit each other while occupying the same space?

I like they way they go on about what photons are doing or are not doing while at this point in the 21'st century, photons are still theoretical particles without the first piece of real evidence to support the claim that they exist...they are a story...a place holder that we use to try and describe something that we don't yet understand and in fact, don't have the first real clue as to what is going on...these guys who talk as if this is all real, and not just theoretical storytelling are doing nothing but yanking their own chains...they have given science the place of some sort of all knowing divinity in their minds....sad really to allow yourself to fool yourself that badly.

I loved the analogy that wuwei waged. throwing balls back and forth and none would ever hit in between. wow.

throwing balls back and forth and none would ever hit in between. wow

You think photons can hit one another? Link?

I know balls can. so?

You think a photon is like a ball?

I guess wuwei did, he used it in an analogy.

 

[mamooth]

Consider this thought experiment.

A mass of matter with temperature 20C is located two-light seconds away from a mass of matter with temperature 19C.

It emits a photon towards the other mass. So far ,so good. It's just flying towards it.

A second later, the target matter warms up to 21C.

What happens to the photon in flight?

Normal humans will say "It still strikes the target matter"

SSDD and jc will say ... what? Does it do a U-turn? Does it vanish immediately? Does it vanish upon striking the target? Did the emitter know that the target would warm a second later, and thus refuse to emit photons in that direction?

I'd like to hear an explanation, hopefully one that does not contradict either the laws of causality (information can't travel faster than light speed), energy conservation or momentum conservation.

 

[jc456]

Consider this thought experiment.

A mass of matter with temperature 20C is located two-light seconds away from a mass of matter with temperature 19C.

It emits a photon towards the other mass. So far ,so good. It's just flying towards it.

A second later, the target matter warms up to 21C.

What happens to the photon in flight?

Normal humans will say "It still strikes the target matter"

SSDD and jc will say ... what? Does it do a U-turn? Does it vanish immediately? Does it vanish upon striking the target? Did the emitter know that the target would warm a second later, and thus refuse to emit photons in that direction?

I'd like to hear an explanation, hopefully one that does not contradict either the laws of causality (information can't travel faster than light speed), energy conservation or momentum conservation.

all I'll say is post up supportive documentation and we can evaluate it. Your thought experiments are nothing more than your wet dream.

 

[mamooth]

all I'll say is post up supportive documentation and we can evaluate it. Your thought experiments are nothing more than your wet dream.

Everything you needed to know was described in the problem.

So, what happens to the photon in flight?

It's not a tough question, but you're running from it in absolute terror. Why?

 

[polarbear]

It seems you don't. All of those balls are thrown at the same time. If you really think none will hit in between never watched dodgeball. Let me take a pause and have you explain how they don't hit!

You still don't understand the analogy.
The balls are like photons. Thermal photons simply do not hit each other.
I thought I made it as simple as possible. I'm sorry you don't understand it as an analogy.

You were doing a-okay in the radiative transfer discussion we had. There was no need to degrade that interesting subject to the level where photons are becoming balls.
If light rays were colliding particle beams then it`s alright to use such an analogy.
It would have been better if you would have used the well explored subject of wave interference instead of balls hitting either a target or each other.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

If I had a warm photon detector it would detect a "colder photon" hitting it.
You're welcome.

If I had a warm photon detector it would detect a "colder photon" hitting it

no you don't. And you have no observation from any experiment that shows that. thank you!!!!

no you don't.

No I don't......what?

And you have no observation from any experiment that shows that.

No one has ever observed or detected a "colder photon" striking a photon detector? Are you sure?

No one has ever observed or detected a "colder photon" striking a photon detector? Are you sure?

well none from you I am sure.

No I don't......what?

have a warm detector, to detect a cold photon. No you don't.

What is a Photon Detector?

ok so hold that sucker between two objects at the same temperature and tell me what the photon detector shows.

It would show photons from both objects.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I like they way they go on about what photons are doing or are not doing while at this point in the 21'st century, photons are still theoretical particles without the first piece of real evidence to support the claim that they exist...they are a story...a place holder that we use to try and describe something that we don't yet understand and in fact, don't have the first real clue as to what is going on...these guys who talk as if this is all real, and not just theoretical storytelling are doing nothing but yanking their own chains...they have given science the place of some sort of all knowing divinity in their minds....sad really to allow yourself to fool yourself that badly.

I loved the analogy that wuwei waged. throwing balls back and forth and none would ever hit in between. wow.

throwing balls back and forth and none would ever hit in between. wow

You think photons can hit one another? Link?

I know balls can. so?

You think a photon is like a ball?

I guess wuwei did, he used it in an analogy.

I'm interested in your claim that photons can strike each other.

 

[SSDD]

It seems you don't. All of those balls are thrown at the same time. If you really think none will hit in between never watched dodgeball. Let me take a pause and have you explain how they don't hit!

You still don't understand the analogy.
The balls are like photons. Thermal photons simply do not hit each other.
I thought I made it as simple as possible. I'm sorry you don't understand it as an analogy.

You were doing a-okay in the radiative transfer discussion we had. There was no need to degrade that interesting subject to the level where photons are becoming balls.
If light rays were colliding particle beams then it`s alright to use such an analogy.
It would have been better if you would have used the well explored subject of wave interference instead of balls hitting either a target or each other.

You can't talk about wave interference because they are quite sure that opposing sources of light can't cancel themselves out even though you can see it happen on a soap bubble....you know...the whole photons exist till such time as they come into contact with matter thing...

 

[Billy_Bob]

Here

So tell me what happens when they radiate at each other?

Here is a simple picture that maybe even you can understand. Suppose you are faced with an opponent and each of you has 100 baseballs. Both of you have a net behind you. You each throw the balls at each other's net at the same rate. At the end of 10 minutes, roughly how many balls do you think each opponent has in their net?

you forget the BAT (magnetic field) that each is holding.. the object with a higher frequency will repel one of a lower frequency.. You pitch it slow enough it gets hit... the field generated will repel the incoming

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Here

So tell me what happens when they radiate at each other?

Here is a simple picture that maybe even you can understand. Suppose you are faced with an opponent and each of you has 100 baseballs. Both of you have a net behind you. You each throw the balls at each other's net at the same rate. At the end of 10 minutes, roughly how many balls do you think each opponent has in their net?

you forget the BAT (magnetic field) that each is holding.. the object with a higher frequency will repel one of a lower frequency..

You have a source that confirms your magic photon repelling field?

 

[Billy_Bob]

Here

So tell me what happens when they radiate at each other?

Here is a simple picture that maybe even you can understand. Suppose you are faced with an opponent and each of you has 100 baseballs. Both of you have a net behind you. You each throw the balls at each other's net at the same rate. At the end of 10 minutes, roughly how many balls do you think each opponent has in their net?

you forget the BAT (magnetic field) that each is holding.. the object with a higher frequency will repel one of a lower frequency..

You have a source that confirms your magic photon repelling field?

Lets use empirically observed evidence.

We know that all transmitters create a filed known as an 'umbrella' where opposing fields are repelled from. IE: Older AM transmitters used to play hell with twisted pair phone lines and FM radio stations wiping out all other emittence while you were under the umbrella. SO we know by observations that it happens. The actual mechanism is unknown, (Quantum Mechanism) but the theroy is; a more energetic wave field will deflect a less energetic field.

So we look at each molecule as a transmitter, transmitting at its temperature wave length. This means that each molecule has its own transmission 'umbrella' and that its strength and frequency are determined by the molecules temperature.

A photon emitted from a hot object will have a very small wave length as opposed to a cool object which will have long wavelength. A hot object will have a very narrow bandwidth which will penetrate a long wavelength allowing the energy to be absorbed by the molecule. The longwave length is reflected/deflected by the tighter magnetic filed of the hotter object.

When we look at the earths own magnetic fields we see the same behavior. The fields of cooler particles allow downwelling radiation to pass unabated. The mass of the earths magneto creates a series of fields which grow tighter in frequency as it nears the surface of the earth reflecting the colder CME energy and cooler solar waves of solar wind. This is why we don't have our atmosphere ripped of the planet.

The second law has many reasons as to why a cooler object can not warm a warmer object. Applying empirical observations to the laws of thermodynamics is relativity easy if you follow the known observed evidence.

 

[Wuwei]

It seems you don't. All of those balls are thrown at the same time. If you really think none will hit in between never watched dodgeball. Let me take a pause and have you explain how they don't hit!

You still don't understand the analogy.
The balls are like photons. Thermal photons simply do not hit each other.
I thought I made it as simple as possible. I'm sorry you don't understand it as an analogy.

You were doing a-okay in the radiative transfer discussion we had. There was no need to degrade that interesting subject to the level where photons are becoming balls.
If light rays were colliding particle beams then it`s alright to use such an analogy.
It would have been better if you would have used the well explored subject of wave interference instead of balls hitting either a target or each other.

Wave interference? Are you kidding? Popeye would have absolutely no chance of understanding anything unless it was considerably dumbed down. The analogy was for him, not anyone else. Even then, he couldn't understand the analogy. He is the one who turned baseballs into huge dodge balls even though I tried twice to steer him away from collisions. JC, Billybob, and SSDD are all whacko in their understanding of science.

But getting back to your comment on wave interference. Black body radiation must be considered in terms of photons. That was how photons were hypothesized in the first place. Look up "ultraviolet catastrophe" and note Planck's solution.

If they really want to talk about EM waves they can only talk about superposition (uninteresting) not destructive interference since BB radiation is incoherent. Incoherent waves cannot cancel. Also those guys sometimes talk in terms of radio antennas canceling waves. Antennas can only redirect the coherent EM energy they can't destroy it because of the law of conservation of energy.

 

[SSDD]

Wave interference? Are you kidding? Popeye would have absolutely no chance of understanding anything unless it was considerably dumbed down. The analogy was for him, not anyone else. Even then, he couldn't understand the analogy. He is the one who turned baseballs into huge dodge balls even though I tried twice to steer him away from collisions. JC, Billybob, and SSDD are all whacko in their understanding of science..

You going to argue that the engineers who place microwave dish arrays don't have to worry about interference from other arrays, and that the magnitude and direction of one microwave energy stream has no bearing on any other?

 

[Billy_Bob]

It seems you don't. All of those balls are thrown at the same time. If you really think none will hit in between never watched dodgeball. Let me take a pause and have you explain how they don't hit!

You still don't understand the analogy.
The balls are like photons. Thermal photons simply do not hit each other.
I thought I made it as simple as possible. I'm sorry you don't understand it as an analogy.

You were doing a-okay in the radiative transfer discussion we had. There was no need to degrade that interesting subject to the level where photons are becoming balls.
If light rays were colliding particle beams then it`s alright to use such an analogy.
It would have been better if you would have used the well explored subject of wave interference instead of balls hitting either a target or each other.

Wave interference? Are you kidding? Popeye would have absolutely no chance of understanding anything unless it was considerably dumbed down. The analogy was for him, not anyone else. Even then, he couldn't understand the analogy. He is the one who turned baseballs into huge dodge balls even though I tried twice to steer him away from collisions. JC, Billybob, and SSDD are all whacko in their understanding of science.

But getting back to your comment on wave interference. Black body radiation must be considered in terms of photons. That was how photons were hypothesized in the first place. Look up "ultraviolet catastrophe" and note Planck's solution.

If they really want to talk about EM waves they can only talk about superposition (uninteresting) not destructive interference since BB radiation is incoherent. Incoherent waves cannot cancel. Also those guys sometimes talk in terms of radio antennas canceling waves. Antennas can only redirect the coherent EM energy they can't destroy it because of the law of conservation of energy.

lol

Obviously you have no concept of how wave energy (EM) works..