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Trump claims he understands and will be a boon to working class Americans....Baloney!
- Thread starter 320 Years of History
- Start date
What's patently obvious here is that while Progressive policies put more people onto the Government "plantation"...for Progressive politicians and activists...it's one hell of a lucrative cottage industry! You keep right on thinking that these people are "there" for you!
SuperDemocrat
Gold Member
- Mar 4, 2015
- 8,200
- 868
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- Banned
- #32
Do you possess the IQ to spell bologna?
320 Years of History
Gold Member
- Thread starter
- #35
I don't recall Obama visiting working class minority neighborhoods. Do you?
The only time liberals like Hillary and Barry visit minority neighborhoods is when they are running for office. If they aren't running for office they hang out at places like Martha's Vineyard, Aspen or Hawaii. Hillary and Bill live in Westchester County in a gated million dollar mansion protected by Secret Service agents. They don't have a CLUE what's going on down in the "hood" nor do they really care.
Red:
You're just flat out wrong. Here are several instances where Mr. Obama has visited with so-called "regular" people. He has not only visited them, he lived among them.
Homes Mr. Obama lived in.
Where he and his parent's lived when he was a boy.
- Mr. Obama:
- Sept. 2010 -- In Va., Obama visits working class neighborhood - Victoria Advocate
- Growing up -- Obama's Neighborhood - Barack Obama Resources, Hawaii History, Punahou, Pictures, Images
- Dec. 2014 -- President Obama's Visit to Nashville and Casa Azafran
- June 2015 -- http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/27/u...neral-of-clementa-pinckney-in-charleston.html
- Jan 2009 -- Washington, D.C. visit to Ben's Chilli Bowl
- April 2015 -- Anacostia, Washington, D.C. -- Obama announces e-book initiative for low-income students
Young Hillary Clinton in her family's Chicago Neighborhood
The Rodham's home after moving to the suburbs.
Donald Trump's Childhood home in Jamaica Estates, Queens -- not very middle class looking...and quite frankly, even when he was there it wasn't a welcoming place for "outsiders."
I'm not even going to try listing all the places and people she's met and worked directly to improve the quality of their lives. Her history of doing that dates all the way back to her early days as co-founder of Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families. Moreover, the things she has made available to folks are things that cannot be taken away or lost as happens when, say, a casino goes belly-up. Here are but two examples of her having done things that clearly don't provide any direct material benefit to her, unlike Trump for whom everything he's done has made him richer. The very idea that she has done what she has and visited low or middle income neighborhoods only when running for election is just absurd.
- Mrs. Clinton was a driving force for providing health insurance to millions of children through SCHIP, a government program that provided health insurance for uninsured children who did not qualify for Medicaid.
- Clinton co-sponsored the Relief for Working Families Tax Act, which supported a lower tax burden for families with children and "working families."
You see, folks like the Clintons and Obamas don't need to visit working and middle class neighborhoods and schools to understand what life there is like. They grew up in them.
What's improved more...the lives of the people they represented...or their own lives? The Obama's and the Clinton's have used their elected offices to become multi millionaires and live in large mansions in exclusive neighborhoods...while their constituents have slid further towards poverty. Progressive politicians always tell the poor that they are "there" for them but let's be honest here, 320...the Clinton's have always been "there" for themselves! Their use of the Clinton Foundation as a means to funnel pay for play bribes and support their political machine is not only illegal...it's immoral!
And Barry might have lived in that cute little house in Hawaii before he figured out how to use Affirmative Action to make his fortune...but now he's staying in THIS house on the Vineyard.
The whole theme of this line of conversation begun by @Mr. H's remark that you quoted is completely off topic. What, if anything, is relevant to the topic and having to do with Mr. Obama is:
- Mr. Obama isn't running for President and asking for our votes in part based on a claim that despite his entire life has been one of luxury and privilege, he yet understands the circumstances of working class and poor people, be they minorities or otherwise.
- Mr. Obama is from humble beginnings; therefore he, unlike Trump, doesn't need to visit non-rich neighborhoods to understand what the people in them live like and what their real and highest priority needs are.
- Mr. Obama hasn't demonstrated his complete lack of awareness of the priorities of working class and/or poor individuals by visiting their children at school and then responding to them as though their situation and aspirations are those of typical upper middle or middle class community by offering them sneakers when what they need is books, other learning materials, and school supplies.
Off Topic:
Out of courtesy, I'll address the "blue" remark, but it has nothing to do with the thread topic which is the absurdity of the proposition Trump makes that Trump can be a boon to working class Americans and the evidence observed over the entirety of Trump's life that shows how accepting that proposition is pure folly. Trump wants our votes; therefore what matters is whether there's just cause to believe his claims, not whether an outgoing President is better, worse, or about the same.
Blue:
If one wants to make a person-by-person level comparison, by all means have at it. I'm not going to try to do that.
I know that folks and groups who don't like Mr. Obama and/or Democrats/Democratic policies like to claim that the nation's "regular" people haven't done well during the past eight years, but the facts and figures don't bear that out according to research by non-partisan Pew Research.
- "The middle class may be shrinking, but two-thirds of those who leave have moved up, while one-third have dropped to a lower income group."
- "'There is actually more progress than regression,' says Rakesh Kochhar, who studies the middle class and is associate director of research at the Pew Research Center."
- "Since economists first began keeping track in 1970, every decade has ended with fewer people in the middle class than at the start."
Pew's research is borne out by that of the Urban Institute.
I don't have a problem or find cause for dismay over the growing share of the nation's upper middle class. Those people have to come from some other class and even the most cynical among us wouldn't argue that they came from the upper income strata. That only leaves middle-middle and lower middle income groups as the "place" from which they came. Make no mistake. Upper middle, middle and lower middle groups are collectively the "middle class."
Looking at the graphic above, Mr. Obama's/Democrats' detractors would like to make the case that the increase in the rich's control of income is because the rich merely make more. I can understand why folks will make that assumption for conventional wisdom says "the rich get richer." The facts found at the links above (and at the source research studies -- Pew and Urban Institute -- they reference), however, don't bear that out as being what's primarily been happening over the past ~35 years, although there's no question that to some extent it surely has happened. What the research shows is that 2/3rds of the folks from the middle classes have moved into higher income brackets and 1/3rd of them have become worse off. I don't have a problem with that.
Given that the "middle class" consists literally of millions of individuals, yes, it's easy to find instances of folks who've become worse off. I mean really...Even by the most conservative estimate, the middle classes entail ~50% of the population which is ~315 million people. Even if just 10 million of them are annoyed that their fortunes have dwindled, that's still a lot of people griping. Of course they are going to be heard and heard more unavoidably than the largely silent majority of folks who are doing alright.
In contrast, "regular" folks who have seen their economic situation improve aren't shouting from the rafters that they have, for as is typical, people don't have much of anything to say so long as things are going well for them. As any businessperson knows, a ticked off customer will tell some 9-15 people about their experience, but a satisfied customer may at best tell half as many others of their positive experience. Even though governments aren't businesses, all governments do is provide service to citizens. That makes government essentially one big customer service organization; thus it is subject to the very same phenomena and behavior patterns that businesses' are as goes customer service. So, yes, I'm not at all surprised that the millions of folks who seen their economic/financial position decline/weaken are very vocal about it.
All the preceding leads one to an obvious question: Who and what sorts of folks are worse off and who is better off? Well that's also been addressed by Pew's research.
The chart above is wholly consistent with what one would expect in an economy such as the U.S.' that has transformed from one driven by manufacturing capital and lowly skilled labor to one driven by intellectual capital and highly skilled labor, or in other words an economy where the "good jobs" are in manufacturing to one where they are in business and professional services. People who've gotten on board with the change are doing well. People who have resisted or refrained from being part of it are not doing well. There are literally millions of folks in each group, but, again, as the information offered earlier shows, the ratio between the groups is 2:1. That's not a bad thing, but, yes, it's bad for folks who are part of the "1" and not part of the "2."
320 Years of History
Gold Member
- Thread starter
- #36
The Obama's and the Clinton's have used their elected offices to become multi millionaires and live in large mansions in exclusive neighborhoods...while their constituents have slid further towards poverty.
Getting rich by writing a book and allowing others to pay you for sharing your thoughts. There's something wrong with that? I don't think so and neither do the myriad individuals who are paid and syndicated columnists, radio talk show hosts, and so on.
Indeependent
Diamond Member
- Nov 19, 2013
- 73,633
- 28,506
- 2,250
320 might have to sell a yacht.
320 Years of History
Gold Member
- Thread starter
- #38
I don't recall Obama visiting working class minority neighborhoods. Do you?
The only time liberals like Hillary and Barry visit minority neighborhoods is when they are running for office. If they aren't running for office they hang out at places like Martha's Vineyard, Aspen or Hawaii. Hillary and Bill live in Westchester County in a gated million dollar mansion protected by Secret Service agents. They don't have a CLUE what's going on down in the "hood" nor do they really care.
Red:
You're just flat out wrong. Here are several instances where Mr. Obama has visited with so-called "regular" people. He has not only visited them, he lived among them.
Homes Mr. Obama lived in.
(photos deleted because of forum image limitation)
Where he and his parent's lived when he was a boy.
- Mr. Obama:
- Sept. 2010 -- In Va., Obama visits working class neighborhood - Victoria Advocate
- Growing up -- Obama's Neighborhood - Barack Obama Resources, Hawaii History, Punahou, Pictures, Images
- Dec. 2014 -- President Obama's Visit to Nashville and Casa Azafran
- June 2015 -- http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/27/u...neral-of-clementa-pinckney-in-charleston.html
- Jan 2009 -- Washington, D.C. visit to Ben's Chilli Bowl
- April 2015 -- Anacostia, Washington, D.C. -- Obama announces e-book initiative for low-income students
Young Hillary Clinton in her family's Chicago Neighborhood
The Rodham's home after moving to the suburbs.
(photo deleted due to forum image limitation)
Donald Trump's Childhood home in Jamaica Estates, Queens -- not very middle class looking...and quite frankly, even when he was there it wasn't a welcoming place for "outsiders."
(photo deleted due to forum image limitation)
I'm not even going to try listing all the places and people she's met and worked directly to improve the quality of their lives. Her history of doing that dates all the way back to her early days as co-founder of Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families. Moreover, the things she has made available to folks are things that cannot be taken away or lost as happens when, say, a casino goes belly-up. Here are but two examples of her having done things that clearly don't provide any direct material benefit to her, unlike Trump for whom everything he's done has made him richer. The very idea that she has done what she has and visited low or middle income neighborhoods only when running for election is just absurd.
- Mrs. Clinton was a driving force for providing health insurance to millions of children through SCHIP, a government program that provided health insurance for uninsured children who did not qualify for Medicaid.
- Clinton co-sponsored the Relief for Working Families Tax Act, which supported a lower tax burden for families with children and "working families."
You see, folks like the Clintons and Obamas don't need to visit working and middle class neighborhoods and schools to understand what life there is like. They grew up in them.
What's improved more...the lives of the people they represented...or their own lives? The Obama's and the Clinton's have used their elected offices to become multi millionaires and live in large mansions in exclusive neighborhoods...while their constituents have slid further towards poverty. Progressive politicians always tell the poor that they are "there" for them but let's be honest here, 320...the Clinton's have always been "there" for themselves! Their use of the Clinton Foundation as a means to funnel pay for play bribes and support their political machine is not only illegal...it's immoral!
And Barry might have lived in that cute little house in Hawaii before he figured out how to use Affirmative Action to make his fortune...but now he's staying in THIS house on the Vineyard.
I don't recall Obama visiting working class minority neighborhoods. Do you?
He was a community organizer. Do you think he never left his office? Did Jesus never leave his office?
Jesus had an office?
Who knew?
Nancy Pelosi claims to be "there" for the poor...yet she lives in a sprawling mansion out in wine country in Napa! The only minorities there are probably picking grapes!
Hillary claims to be "there" for the poor but she and her hubby live in Westchester in a gated mansion.
Harry Reid claims to be "there" for the poor but he's got a mansion in Nevada and lives in a suite at the Ritz Carleton when he's in Washington.
Al Gore's California mansion...
And his Tennessee mansion...
Jesse Jackson's home...
Elizabeth Warren's home...
Joe Biden's home in Delaware. That's a real ghetto...
What does where these folks live now have to do with whether they (1) came from a background that gives them firsthand awareness of the circumstances and needs of working class people, and/or (2) understand the challenges and needs of working class individuals? Wealthy folks need not live in modest homes to "be there" for non-rich folks.
I posted photos of Trump's childhood home as part of my illustration that he was "to the manor" born. That he or anyone has worked and found their way to riches isn't and wasn't the point; moreover, that's what one is supposed to do, so that the people whose homes are pictured above have isn't something about which to chide them. The point of the post in which I pictured that house is as someone born into that good fortune Trump, unlike Al Gore and Mrs. Pelosi (somewhat) for instance, also has not acquired any understanding of how the needs and aspirations of poor and working class folks differ from those of upper middle class and wealthy individuals.
Being wealthy oneself does not inherently mean one cannot "relate" to and work in elected office to advance the circumstances of non-wealthy people. To credibly show that one's own wealth and position isn't accompanied by "blinders," however, one needs to show by one's actions toward and on behalf of non-wealthy folks that one "gets it." Trump didn't grow up among "regular" folks; his businesses don't cater to "regular" folks; his tax proposals don't benefit regular folks more than they benefit rich folks; and when he visits with "poor" folks he responds to them as though they are not "poor" folks. Time and time again, and throughout the entirely to his life, from his childhood to the present day, Trump's actions, regardless of what he's said, illustrate he does not "get it."
I showed Trump's and Mrs. Clinton's childhood homes to illustrate where their lives began and to amplify the fact that regardless of their situation now, which of them benefits from having had humble beginnings even if their routines these days don't place them daily among "regular" people. When one starts out as a "regular" person, one doesn't ever forget what that's about. When one doesn't start out "regular," one has to work to learn what that's about, and Trump, quite simply, has not.
FWIW:
Joe Biden, for whatever wealth he's amassed, grew up here:
Elizabeth Warren's childhood homes
Harry Reid's childhood home:
The Obama's and the Clinton's have used their elected offices to become multi millionaires and live in large mansions in exclusive neighborhoods...while their constituents have slid further towards poverty.
Getting rich by writing a book and allowing others to pay you for sharing your thoughts. There's something wrong with that? I don't think so and neither do the myriad individuals who are paid and syndicated columnists, radio talk show hosts, and so on.
Getting rich by writing books that blame the country's ills on rich people is fine by you? Michael Moore has parleyed his "activism" into a multi million dollar net worth. Jesse Jackson has cashed in on black "activism" to also become a multi millionaire. Al Gore preaches about environmental responsibility when he owns multiple million dollar mansions and a private jet. The Clinton's claim to have been "dead broke" the same year that they bought, not one...but two million dollar mansions. Barack Obama bought his Chicago mansion through a sweet heart deal engineered by Tony Rezko while Mr. Rezko was under Federal investigation for influence peddling. John Kerry and Charlie Rangel call for higher taxes on the wealthy but Kerry ducked out of paying taxes on his yacht and Rangel ducked out of paying taxes on the vacation rentals of his Caribbean villa. These are the people that run the Democratic Party.
I don't recall Obama visiting working class minority neighborhoods. Do you?
The only time liberals like Hillary and Barry visit minority neighborhoods is when they are running for office. If they aren't running for office they hang out at places like Martha's Vineyard, Aspen or Hawaii. Hillary and Bill live in Westchester County in a gated million dollar mansion protected by Secret Service agents. They don't have a CLUE what's going on down in the "hood" nor do they really care.
Red:
You're just flat out wrong. Here are several instances where Mr. Obama has visited with so-called "regular" people. He has not only visited them, he lived among them.
Homes Mr. Obama lived in.
(photos deleted because of forum image limitation)
Where he and his parent's lived when he was a boy.
- Mr. Obama:
- Sept. 2010 -- In Va., Obama visits working class neighborhood - Victoria Advocate
- Growing up -- Obama's Neighborhood - Barack Obama Resources, Hawaii History, Punahou, Pictures, Images
- Dec. 2014 -- President Obama's Visit to Nashville and Casa Azafran
- June 2015 -- http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/27/u...neral-of-clementa-pinckney-in-charleston.html
- Jan 2009 -- Washington, D.C. visit to Ben's Chilli Bowl
- April 2015 -- Anacostia, Washington, D.C. -- Obama announces e-book initiative for low-income students
Young Hillary Clinton in her family's Chicago Neighborhood
The Rodham's home after moving to the suburbs.
(photo deleted due to forum image limitation)
Donald Trump's Childhood home in Jamaica Estates, Queens -- not very middle class looking...and quite frankly, even when he was there it wasn't a welcoming place for "outsiders."
(photo deleted due to forum image limitation)
I'm not even going to try listing all the places and people she's met and worked directly to improve the quality of their lives. Her history of doing that dates all the way back to her early days as co-founder of Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families. Moreover, the things she has made available to folks are things that cannot be taken away or lost as happens when, say, a casino goes belly-up. Here are but two examples of her having done things that clearly don't provide any direct material benefit to her, unlike Trump for whom everything he's done has made him richer. The very idea that she has done what she has and visited low or middle income neighborhoods only when running for election is just absurd.
- Mrs. Clinton was a driving force for providing health insurance to millions of children through SCHIP, a government program that provided health insurance for uninsured children who did not qualify for Medicaid.
- Clinton co-sponsored the Relief for Working Families Tax Act, which supported a lower tax burden for families with children and "working families."
You see, folks like the Clintons and Obamas don't need to visit working and middle class neighborhoods and schools to understand what life there is like. They grew up in them.
What's improved more...the lives of the people they represented...or their own lives? The Obama's and the Clinton's have used their elected offices to become multi millionaires and live in large mansions in exclusive neighborhoods...while their constituents have slid further towards poverty. Progressive politicians always tell the poor that they are "there" for them but let's be honest here, 320...the Clinton's have always been "there" for themselves! Their use of the Clinton Foundation as a means to funnel pay for play bribes and support their political machine is not only illegal...it's immoral!
And Barry might have lived in that cute little house in Hawaii before he figured out how to use Affirmative Action to make his fortune...but now he's staying in THIS house on the Vineyard.
I don't recall Obama visiting working class minority neighborhoods. Do you?
He was a community organizer. Do you think he never left his office? Did Jesus never leave his office?
Jesus had an office?
Who knew?
Nancy Pelosi claims to be "there" for the poor...yet she lives in a sprawling mansion out in wine country in Napa! The only minorities there are probably picking grapes!
Hillary claims to be "there" for the poor but she and her hubby live in Westchester in a gated mansion.
Harry Reid claims to be "there" for the poor but he's got a mansion in Nevada and lives in a suite at the Ritz Carleton when he's in Washington.
Al Gore's California mansion...
And his Tennessee mansion...
Jesse Jackson's home...
Elizabeth Warren's home...
Joe Biden's home in Delaware. That's a real ghetto...
What does where these folks live now have to do with whether they (1) came from a background that gives them firsthand awareness of the circumstances and needs of working class people, and/or (2) understand the challenges and needs of working class individuals? Wealthy folks need not live in modest homes to "be there" for non-rich folks.
I posted photos of Trump's childhood home as part of my illustration that he was "to the manor" born. That he or anyone has worked and found their way to riches isn't and wasn't the point; moreover, that's what one is supposed to do, so that the people whose homes are pictured above have isn't something about which to chide them. The point of the post in which I pictured that house is as someone born into that good fortune Trump, unlike Al Gore and Mrs. Pelosi (somewhat) for instance, also has not acquired any understanding of how the needs and aspirations of poor and working class folks differ from those of upper middle class and wealthy individuals.
Being wealthy oneself does not inherently mean one cannot "relate" to and work in elected office to advance the circumstances of non-wealthy people. To credibly show that one's own wealth and position isn't accompanied by "blinders," however, one needs to show by one's actions toward and on behalf of non-wealthy folks that one "gets it." Trump didn't grow up among "regular" folks; his businesses don't cater to "regular" folks; his tax proposals don't benefit regular folks more than they benefit rich folks; and when he visits with "poor" folks he responds to them as though they are not "poor" folks. Time and time again, and throughout the entirely to his life, from his childhood to the present day, Trump's actions, regardless of what he's said, illustrate he does not "get it."
I showed Trump's and Mrs. Clinton's childhood homes to illustrate where their lives began and to amplify the fact that regardless of their situation now, which of them benefits from having had humble beginnings even if their routines these days don't place them daily among "regular" people. When one starts out as a "regular" person, one doesn't ever forget what that's about. When one doesn't start out "regular," one has to work to learn what that's about, and Trump, quite simply, has not.
FWIW:
Joe Biden, for whatever wealth he's amassed, grew up here:
Elizabeth Warren's childhood homes
Harry Reid's childhood home:
And all you prove by showing the humble beginnings of these people is how much money they've managed to make while being "there" for the little people!
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