Trump Deal - details, reactions and development on the ground

[ChrisL]

The leftists here in America will have a conniption fit if there is a peace plan that works during the Trump administration. LOL! Yes, they hate Trump that much.

 

[Shusha]

Abbas admitted that he refused to read the Plan so that he could argue that he was not consulted.

He refused consultation for the express purpose of claiming he was not consulted.

It’s the Palestinian mentality.

 

[Mindful]

Portuguese Magazine Must Fire Antisemitic Cartoonist

Vasco Gargalo, a cartoonist employed by Sabado Magazine in Portugal has published a cartoon entitled "The Crematorium" that uses includes Auschwitz imagery and Holocaust reversal to push a false accusation that Israel is perpetrating an institutional genocide against Palestinian Arabs.

 

[rylah]

U.S. President Donald Trump’s Middle East “deal of the century” offers the Palestinians a state. They have rejected it and threatened instead to ramp up violence against Israel.

No one can be surprised. They have rejected every offer of a state previously made to them in 1937, 1947, 2000, 2008 and 2014.

So is this latest deal anything more than Groundhog Day for the Middle East all over again? Yes, because this isn’t a deal. It’s an ultimatum.

Israel intends to enact its part in the plan unilaterally by declaring sovereignty over the Israeli settlement blocs and the Jordan Valley. The big change is that, despite the subsequent crossed wires over timing, the United States will accept this.

That’s because this isn’t a “peace process” in which both sides must progress in tandem with each other — a process that gave the Palestinians an effective veto even while they continued to wage their war of extermination against Israel.

For the first time, here’s an American plan that puts the security of Israel first and foremost. It’s therefore the first time that the United States has unequivocally supported Israel’s future existence.

The Palestinians' bluff has been called. Over to you, world | MelaniePhillips.com

Thanks for that perspective.
Sincere realism is rare in the midst of all the noise.

 

[Mindful]

Thank you, Rylah.

I'm a fan of Melanie Phillips.

 

[rylah]

I remember ages ago, a course I took that discussed the evolution of nations...from tribes to city states to nation states. Maybe it is time to revisit the idea of city states.

Maybe, but Israel seems an exception to what you describe.
The tribes of Israel jumped straight to nation state, fighting the smaller city state kingdoms.
I just find it peculiar, as much as ironic, me pushing this idea to the forefront, only to reject it later.

But the left on their own start acknowledging the inevitability of application of Israeli sovereignty,
don't you see how the conversation has shifted?

 

[ForeverYoung436]

I remember ages ago, a course I took that discussed the evolution of nations...from tribes to city states to nation states. Maybe it is time to revisit the idea of city states.

Maybe, but Israel seems an exception to what you describe.
The tribes of Israel jumped straight to nation state, fighting the smaller city state kingdoms.
I just find it peculiar, as much as ironic, me pushing this idea to the forefront, only to reject it later.

But the left on their own start acknowledging the inevitability of application of Israeli sovereignty,
don't you see how the conversation has shifted?

Yes, but there was a time when the Kingdom of Israel and the Kingdom of Judah fought each other. We weren't always united.

 

[eagle1462010]

All this will do is give new places for them to launch mortar and rocket attacks against Israel.................They do not want anything other than Israel's destruction...................

Pipe Dreams.

 

[rylah]

Thank you, Rylah.

I'm a fan of Melanie Phillips.

I like her, it was strange when she with Einat Wilf chose to follow the PC censorship,
and not be as straightforward with the al-Jazeera host.

I like them both, because they're straightforward.

 

[Mindful]

All this will do is give new places for them to launch mortar and rocket attacks against Israel.................They do not want anything other than Israel's destruction...................

Pipe Dreams.

Someone up thread said that there would have to be assurances from the PA, this would cease.

Won't stop Hezbollah in the south of Lebanon though.

 

[Mindful]

Thank you, Rylah.

I'm a fan of Melanie Phillips.

I like her, it was strange when she with Einat Wilf chose to follow the PC censorship,
and not be as straightforward with the al-Jazeera host.

I like them both, because they're straightforward.

She has a very dignified and pragmatic approach during interviews. Despite being hounded by the anti Israel mob during one live BBC show.

 

[rylah]

I remember ages ago, a course I took that discussed the evolution of nations...from tribes to city states to nation states. Maybe it is time to revisit the idea of city states.

Maybe, but Israel seems an exception to what you describe.
The tribes of Israel jumped straight to nation state, fighting the smaller city state kingdoms.
I just find it peculiar, as much as ironic, me pushing this idea to the forefront, only to reject it later.

But the left on their own start acknowledging the inevitability of application of Israeli sovereignty,
don't you see how the conversation has shifted?

Yes, but there was a time when the Kingdom of Israel and the Kingdom of Judah fought each other. We weren't always united.

Yes, it was split of a nation state into two kingdoms in which central cities were subject to a capital, not a union of separate city states but a centralized nation state.

 

[rylah]

Thank you, Rylah.

I'm a fan of Melanie Phillips.

I like her, it was strange when she with Einat Wilf chose to follow the PC censorship,
and not be as straightforward with the al-Jazeera host.

I like them both, because they're straightforward.

She has a very dignified and pragmatic approach during interviews. Despite being hounded by the anti Israel mob during one live BBC show.

The ironic part is, people who speak like her were considered leftists 50 years ago,
now I'm sure they brand her an extremist of the right.

Since You know, Arabs are now the new PC trend for everything left and liberal.
Just look who heads UN human rights commissions...

 

[Mindful]

Thank you, Rylah.

I'm a fan of Melanie Phillips.

I like her, it was strange when she with Einat Wilf chose to follow the PC censorship,
and not be as straightforward with the al-Jazeera host.

I like them both, because they're straightforward.

She has a very dignified and pragmatic approach during interviews. Despite being hounded by the anti Israel mob during one live BBC show.

The ironic part is, people who speak like her were considered leftists 50 years ago,
now I'm sure they brand her an extremist of the right.

Since You know, Arabs are now the new PC trend for everything left and liberal.
Just look who heads UN human rights commissions...

For me, the UN is irrelevant.

 

[Olde Europe]

I wonder...how united are they really? For one, they ruled by different political regimes, for another, they often seem to poll very differently.

Do you have any actual data to support what you say? I am curious.

See:

An exit poll conducted by Near East Consulting on 15 February 2006 on voters participating in the 2006 PA elections revealed the following responses to major concerns: [...]

Support for a Peace Agreement with Israel: 79.5% in support; 15.5% in opposition
Should Hamas change its policies regarding Israel: Yes – 75.2%; No – 24.8%
Under Hamas corruption will decrease: Yes – 78.1%; No – 21.9%
Under Hamas internal security will improve: Yes – 67.8%; No – 32.2%
Hamas government priorities: 1) Combatting corruption; 2) Ending security chaos; 3) Solving poverty/unemployment
Support for Hamas' impact on the national interest: Positive – 66.7&; Negative - 28.5%
Support for a national unity government?: Yes – 81.4%; no – 18.6%​

 

[rylah]

Thank you, Rylah.

I'm a fan of Melanie Phillips.

I like her, it was strange when she with Einat Wilf chose to follow the PC censorship,
and not be as straightforward with the al-Jazeera host.

I like them both, because they're straightforward.

She has a very dignified and pragmatic approach during interviews. Despite being hounded by the anti Israel mob during one live BBC show.

The ironic part is, people who speak like her were considered leftists 50 years ago,
now I'm sure they brand her an extremist of the right.

Since You know, Arabs are now the new PC trend for everything left and liberal.
Just look who heads UN human rights commissions...

For me, the UN is irrelevant.

How did Ben-Gurion said,
"it doesn't matter what the nations say, matters what Israel does".

 

[rylah]

I wonder...how united are they really? For one, they ruled by different political regimes, for another, they often seem to poll very differently.

Do you have any actual data to support what you say? I am curious.

See:

An exit poll conducted by Near East Consulting on 15 February 2006 on voters participating in the 2006 PA elections revealed the following responses to major concerns: [...]

Support for a Peace Agreement with Israel: 79.5% in support; 15.5% in opposition
Should Hamas change its policies regarding Israel: Yes – 75.2%; No – 24.8%
Under Hamas corruption will decrease: Yes – 78.1%; No – 21.9%
Under Hamas internal security will improve: Yes – 67.8%; No – 32.2%
Hamas government priorities: 1) Combatting corruption; 2) Ending security chaos; 3) Solving poverty/unemployment
Support for Hamas' impact on the national interest: Positive – 66.7&; Negative - 28.5%
Support for a national unity government?: Yes – 81.4%; no – 18.6%​

Isn't that before they got to actually live under Hamas rule?
If you have any serious polls up to date please bring them forth.

Last time PA allowed elections, Arabs overwhelmingly voted for tribal representatives,
over political parties.

 

[Mindful]

Thank you, Rylah.

I'm a fan of Melanie Phillips.

I like her, it was strange when she with Einat Wilf chose to follow the PC censorship,
and not be as straightforward with the al-Jazeera host.

I like them both, because they're straightforward.

She has a very dignified and pragmatic approach during interviews. Despite being hounded by the anti Israel mob during one live BBC show.

The ironic part is, people who speak like her were considered leftists 50 years ago,
now I'm sure they brand her an extremist of the right.

Since You know, Arabs are now the new PC trend for everything left and liberal.
Just look who heads UN human rights commissions...

For me, the UN is irrelevant.

How did Ben-Gurion said,
"it doesn't matter what the nations say, matters what Israel does".

I visited his house once. Books everywhere.

 

[eagle1462010]

All this will do is give new places for them to launch mortar and rocket attacks against Israel.................They do not want anything other than Israel's destruction...................

Pipe Dreams.

Someone up thread said that there would have to be assurances from the PA, this would cease.

Won't stop Hezbollah in the south of Lebanon though.

Who believes them given their history...............You can't trust them.

 

[rylah]

I like her, it was strange when she with Einat Wilf chose to follow the PC censorship,
and not be as straightforward with the al-Jazeera host.

I like them both, because they're straightforward.

She has a very dignified and pragmatic approach during interviews. Despite being hounded by the anti Israel mob during one live BBC show.

The ironic part is, people who speak like her were considered leftists 50 years ago,
now I'm sure they brand her an extremist of the right.

Since You know, Arabs are now the new PC trend for everything left and liberal.
Just look who heads UN human rights commissions...

For me, the UN is irrelevant.

How did Ben-Gurion said,
"it doesn't matter what the nations say, matters what Israel does".

I visited his house once. Books everywhere.

Walla, didn't know about that, in Tel-Aviv or Negev?

And sure, it was a new spring of intellectual idealism, and they were all Heider students...
Maran HaRav Kook aside from being a genius Torah scholar, was well versed in the contemporary intellectual language and disciplines, the Lubavitche Rebbe got an Elec. engineering degree going to the university in Tfilin and studying Talmud while listening to lectures.

They were all heavyweights.

Conversations between the Hazon Ish and Ben-Gurion are historically very interesting in that context.
Socialist founder of the state taking advice and arguing with the Hacham of the Bnei Brak ghetto about government policy...couldn't do that without a healthy amount of humor on their side.