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So you are sticking with the hunter's excuse that killing animals helps preserve them. You pretend that this is population control because, I guess, elephants have no natural predators there although you said shooting elephants protected them from being killed by predators.Great excuse. You kill therm to save them because they will get old & die a natural death.
Maybe you should take that approach with your own life?
Most people don't die of starvation, dehydration, or predators ripping them to shreds when they are unable to move anymore.
For animals in the wild, that is the grim reality.
That is nature's way. Next you'll be shooting gnus so they won't get eaten by lions.
Nice attempt at a response, but fail.
"Nature's" way would be to allow the apex predator on the planet (humans) to have their way with the prey of the planet (everything else). By trying to preserve these populations we are already messing with "nature".
Allowing some richi idiots to kill older non breeding animals of a threatened population for hundreds of thousands of dollars provides funds to actually preserve these species, provides funds for the locals to have some stake in keeping them alive and protected. Both of these reduce poaching and killing of animals by locals that are nuisances.
No fail at all. If your argument is shooting defenseless elephants so they don't die a natural death, then why not kill the natural prey of lions so they get your humane death instead of death by lion.
The fact is you can't really come up with a real argument to defend these tough hunters from going to Africa, paying big money to have an elephant pointed out for them to shoot. That is not sport. That is disgusting behavior. Behavior you support.
Man is supposed to be intelligent. It is supposed to find a way to exist without running around killing everything he sees. But, as we know, there are a lot pf dumbass cowardly people out there, The Trump brats as an example.
Your buddy's plan to permit importation of ivory will just boost poaching.
I'm sure after the viable meat is given to villagers the scraps are left for the hyenas to get their share.
As for lion's natural prey, most of the prey in question seems to not need wildlife management, so the natural cycle can be left to run.
Elephants are in decline, the $$ from these hunts provides a chance to stop poachers, and make the locals feel like preserving the herds so future hunters can come around and spend $$
And considering how miserable the current ivory ban is doing with regards to ending poaching, maybe something new needs to be tried.
How about selling "new" ivory, from naturally dead animals and the legally hunted ones, and registering it with micro-imprinting or something like it? Even let people with old ivory register their items. Then, if you catch someone WITHOUT registered ivory you can prosecute their asses.
This would allow new ivory to enter the market, which would lessen the black market demand, and also give the locals some stake in stopping the poaching, as legal ivory would probably fetch a large amount of $$ just like trophy hunting.
Is you feeling good about yourself more important that preserving these animals in the wild?
So you are sticking with the hunter's excuse that killing animals helps preserve them. You pretend that this is population control because, I guess, elephants have no natural predators there although you said shooting elephants protected them from being killed by predators.Most people don't die of starvation, dehydration, or predators ripping them to shreds when they are unable to move anymore.
For animals in the wild, that is the grim reality.
That is nature's way. Next you'll be shooting gnus so they won't get eaten by lions.
Nice attempt at a response, but fail.
"Nature's" way would be to allow the apex predator on the planet (humans) to have their way with the prey of the planet (everything else). By trying to preserve these populations we are already messing with "nature".
Allowing some richi idiots to kill older non breeding animals of a threatened population for hundreds of thousands of dollars provides funds to actually preserve these species, provides funds for the locals to have some stake in keeping them alive and protected. Both of these reduce poaching and killing of animals by locals that are nuisances.
No fail at all. If your argument is shooting defenseless elephants so they don't die a natural death, then why not kill the natural prey of lions so they get your humane death instead of death by lion.
The fact is you can't really come up with a real argument to defend these tough hunters from going to Africa, paying big money to have an elephant pointed out for them to shoot. That is not sport. That is disgusting behavior. Behavior you support.
Man is supposed to be intelligent. It is supposed to find a way to exist without running around killing everything he sees. But, as we know, there are a lot pf dumbass cowardly people out there, The Trump brats as an example.
Your buddy's plan to permit importation of ivory will just boost poaching.
I'm sure after the viable meat is given to villagers the scraps are left for the hyenas to get their share.
As for lion's natural prey, most of the prey in question seems to not need wildlife management, so the natural cycle can be left to run.
Elephants are in decline, the $$ from these hunts provides a chance to stop poachers, and make the locals feel like preserving the herds so future hunters can come around and spend $$
And considering how miserable the current ivory ban is doing with regards to ending poaching, maybe something new needs to be tried.
How about selling "new" ivory, from naturally dead animals and the legally hunted ones, and registering it with micro-imprinting or something like it? Even let people with old ivory register their items. Then, if you catch someone WITHOUT registered ivory you can prosecute their asses.
This would allow new ivory to enter the market, which would lessen the black market demand, and also give the locals some stake in stopping the poaching, as legal ivory would probably fetch a large amount of $$ just like trophy hunting.
Is you feeling good about yourself more important that preserving these animals in the wild?
Are you getting dizzy from your circular arguments?
These people are not hunting to help the animals. If you believe that, you are dumber than you look.
not trying to persuade , elephants are legal game or are legal to kill for meat , trophy or fun if you PAY the fees to the presiding government Winston .
I like elephants more than I like people.
The problem is that elephants live in intergenerational family units. They are long lived, slow to msture and highly intelligent. Older ones teach younger ones and knowledge gets passed down through generations.The sad reality is the only places that have healthy elephant populations are those that allow hunts. Eco hunters don't pay even one tenth what a real hunter will pay for an elephant. In the long run it helps far more elephants than it harms.
We have no business killing such creatures for sport. If there were no market for dead elephant parts there would be no value in poaching. Now we are opening the market again to poorly regulated indistry.
Is there a challenge to 'hunting' and shooting an elephant? Try hunting deer with a recurve bow without sights. That's what hunting is. btw, I got 5 that way. lol
21 inch 8 point - 9 yards - 52# Wing Recurve Hunter
20 1/2 inch 10 point - 13 yards - Bear WhiteTail Hunter
18 inch 9 point - 12 yards - Bear WTH
16 inch 9 point - close enough to touch with my toe when he walked by too close, killed him 3 steps later - Bear WTH
4 more all 15 inches or better ..
Easton XX75's - Savora fixed 5 blade broad heads
7 gobblers, 6 hogs, 1 Javalina
every kill under 20 yards - South Texas Brush Country - no blind - no feeder- no high fence.
elephant killers - meh.
Is there a challenge to 'hunting' and shooting an elephant? Try hunting deer with a recurve bow without sights. That's what hunting is. btw, I got 5 that way. lol
21 inch 8 point - 9 yards - 52# Wing Recurve Hunter
20 1/2 inch 10 point - 13 yards - Bear WhiteTail Hunter
18 inch 9 point - 12 yards - Bear WTH
16 inch 9 point - close enough to touch with my toe when he walked by too close, killed him 3 steps later - Bear WTH
4 more all 15 inches or better ..
Easton XX75's - Savora fixed 5 blade broad heads
7 gobblers, 6 hogs, 1 Javalina
every kill under 20 yards - South Texas Brush Country - no blind - no feeder- no high fence.
elephant killers - meh.
Is there a challenge to 'hunting' and shooting an elephant? Try hunting deer with a recurve bow without sights. That's what hunting is. btw, I got 5 that way. lol
21 inch 8 point - 9 yards - 52# Wing Recurve Hunter
20 1/2 inch 10 point - 13 yards - Bear WhiteTail Hunter
18 inch 9 point - 12 yards - Bear WTH
16 inch 9 point - close enough to touch with my toe when he walked by too close, killed him 3 steps later - Bear WTH
4 more all 15 inches or better ..
Easton XX75's - Savora fixed 5 blade broad heads
7 gobblers, 6 hogs, 1 Javalina
every kill under 20 yards - South Texas Brush Country - no blind - no feeder- no high fence.
elephant killers - meh.
And taking deer with bow and arrow is far more painful to the deer. A hunter using a rifle, who places their shot properly, will instantly, to near instantly kill the deer. Even the best bow shot consigns the deer to a lingering death due to bleeding out. It is not a pleasant way to go.
Is there a challenge to 'hunting' and shooting an elephant? Try hunting deer with a recurve bow without sights. That's what hunting is. btw, I got 5 that way. lol
21 inch 8 point - 9 yards - 52# Wing Recurve Hunter
20 1/2 inch 10 point - 13 yards - Bear WhiteTail Hunter
18 inch 9 point - 12 yards - Bear WTH
16 inch 9 point - close enough to touch with my toe when he walked by too close, killed him 3 steps later - Bear WTH
4 more all 15 inches or better ..
Easton XX75's - Savora fixed 5 blade broad heads
7 gobblers, 6 hogs, 1 Javalina
every kill under 20 yards - South Texas Brush Country - no blind - no feeder- no high fence.
elephant killers - meh.
And taking deer with bow and arrow is far more painful to the deer. A hunter using a rifle, who places their shot properly, will instantly, to near instantly kill the deer. Even the best bow shot consigns the deer to a lingering death due to bleeding out. It is not a pleasant way to go.
that's the classic anti-hunter line.
My question is why allow any to be killed and mutilated ?Are they causing problems ? To make wanton killing of them a sport is imo disgustingThe problem is that elephants live in intergenerational family units. They are long lived, slow to msture and highly intelligent. Older ones teach younger ones and knowledge gets passed down through generations.The sad reality is the only places that have healthy elephant populations are those that allow hunts. Eco hunters don't pay even one tenth what a real hunter will pay for an elephant. In the long run it helps far more elephants than it harms.
We have no business killing such creatures for sport. If there were no market for dead elephant parts there would be no value in poaching. Now we are opening the market again to poorly regulated indistry.
All of that is true, but as a person who has lived and worked in Africa for years at a time, I can tell you that in areas where hunting is allowed the elephant population is doing OK. Not great mind you, but OK. Where hunting is outlawed they are nearing extinction. It's as simple as that.
My question is why allow any to be killed and mutilated ?Are they causing problems ? To make wanton killing of them a sport is imo disguestingThe problem is that elephants live in intergenerational family units. They are long lived, slow to msture and highly intelligent. Older ones teach younger ones and knowledge gets passed down through generations.The sad reality is the only places that have healthy elephant populations are those that allow hunts. Eco hunters don't pay even one tenth what a real hunter will pay for an elephant. In the long run it helps far more elephants than it harms.
We have no business killing such creatures for sport. If there were no market for dead elephant parts there would be no value in poaching. Now we are opening the market again to poorly regulated indistry.
All of that is true, but as a person who has lived and worked in Africa for years at a time, I can tell you that in areas where hunting is allowed the elephant population is doing OK. Not great mind you, but OK. Where hunting is outlawed they are nearing extinction. It's as simple as that.
I can understand if they were like deer and over run where folks live ,, destroy gardens,.. and there are just too damn many , but are elephants like the deer and is elephant meat edible?My question is why allow any to be killed and mutilated ?Are they causing problems ? To make wanton killing of them a sport is imo disguestingThe problem is that elephants live in intergenerational family units. They are long lived, slow to msture and highly intelligent. Older ones teach younger ones and knowledge gets passed down through generations.The sad reality is the only places that have healthy elephant populations are those that allow hunts. Eco hunters don't pay even one tenth what a real hunter will pay for an elephant. In the long run it helps far more elephants than it harms.
We have no business killing such creatures for sport. If there were no market for dead elephant parts there would be no value in poaching. Now we are opening the market again to poorly regulated indistry.
All of that is true, but as a person who has lived and worked in Africa for years at a time, I can tell you that in areas where hunting is allowed the elephant population is doing OK. Not great mind you, but OK. Where hunting is outlawed they are nearing extinction. It's as simple as that.
Because where they are allowed to be hunted they are valuable so the locals (who depend on the hunters for their livelihood) prevent poachers from killing them in their thousands. They control the number of elephant that can be killed every year. It's as simple as that. Like I said, I can't stand that they are killed, but the alternative is so much worse.
------------------------------------------------------ here you go EDDIE , --- Watch Members of an African Village Quickly Butcher an Elephant [VIDEO] --- Just trying to teach you a few things Eddie .I can understand if they were like deer and over run where folks live ,, destroy gardens,.. and there are just too damn many , but are elephants like the deer and is elephant meat edible?My question is why allow any to be killed and mutilated ?Are they causing problems ? To make wanton killing of them a sport is imo disguestingThe problem is that elephants live in intergenerational family units. They are long lived, slow to msture and highly intelligent. Older ones teach younger ones and knowledge gets passed down through generations.The sad reality is the only places that have healthy elephant populations are those that allow hunts. Eco hunters don't pay even one tenth what a real hunter will pay for an elephant. In the long run it helps far more elephants than it harms.
We have no business killing such creatures for sport. If there were no market for dead elephant parts there would be no value in poaching. Now we are opening the market again to poorly regulated indistry.
All of that is true, but as a person who has lived and worked in Africa for years at a time, I can tell you that in areas where hunting is allowed the elephant population is doing OK. Not great mind you, but OK. Where hunting is outlawed they are nearing extinction. It's as simple as that.
Because where they are allowed to be hunted they are valuable so the locals (who depend on the hunters for their livelihood) prevent poachers from killing them in their thousands. They control the number of elephant that can be killed every year. It's as simple as that. Like I said, I can't stand that they are killed, but the alternative is so much worse.
I can understand if they were like deer and over run where folks live ,, destroy gardens,.. and there are just too damn many , but are elephants like the deer and is elephant meat edible?My question is why allow any to be killed and mutilated ?Are they causing problems ? To make wanton killing of them a sport is imo disguestingThe problem is that elephants live in intergenerational family units. They are long lived, slow to msture and highly intelligent. Older ones teach younger ones and knowledge gets passed down through generations.The sad reality is the only places that have healthy elephant populations are those that allow hunts. Eco hunters don't pay even one tenth what a real hunter will pay for an elephant. In the long run it helps far more elephants than it harms.
We have no business killing such creatures for sport. If there were no market for dead elephant parts there would be no value in poaching. Now we are opening the market again to poorly regulated indistry.
All of that is true, but as a person who has lived and worked in Africa for years at a time, I can tell you that in areas where hunting is allowed the elephant population is doing OK. Not great mind you, but OK. Where hunting is outlawed they are nearing extinction. It's as simple as that.
Because where they are allowed to be hunted they are valuable so the locals (who depend on the hunters for their livelihood) prevent poachers from killing them in their thousands. They control the number of elephant that can be killed every year. It's as simple as that. Like I said, I can't stand that they are killed, but the alternative is so much worse.
Pismo ..You trying to pismoff?------------------------------------------------------ here you go EDDIE , --- Watch Members of an African Village Quickly Butcher an Elephant [VIDEO] --- Just trying to teach you a few things Eddie .I can understand if they were like deer and over run where folks live ,, destroy gardens,.. and there are just too damn many , but are elephants like the deer and is elephant meat edible?My question is why allow any to be killed and mutilated ?Are they causing problems ? To make wanton killing of them a sport is imo disguestingThe problem is that elephants live in intergenerational family units. They are long lived, slow to msture and highly intelligent. Older ones teach younger ones and knowledge gets passed down through generations.
We have no business killing such creatures for sport. If there were no market for dead elephant parts there would be no value in poaching. Now we are opening the market again to poorly regulated indistry.
All of that is true, but as a person who has lived and worked in Africa for years at a time, I can tell you that in areas where hunting is allowed the elephant population is doing OK. Not great mind you, but OK. Where hunting is outlawed they are nearing extinction. It's as simple as that.
Because where they are allowed to be hunted they are valuable so the locals (who depend on the hunters for their livelihood) prevent poachers from killing them in their thousands. They control the number of elephant that can be killed every year. It's as simple as that. Like I said, I can't stand that they are killed, but the alternative is so much worse.
